Singularity

Good point! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Singularity

I would agree.
Feeling love (noun) for and from others rewards us. Loving actions (verb) reward or benefit others to whom they are directed. Its a win/win! Sounds/feels moral to me.

LAwrence

The problem is: We have discarded God's law.

Singularity

That is, admittedly, true for me! However it surprises me to hear you say that of the other posters on this thread. It seems obvious that most are interested in a deeper understanding and a truer application of God's law in their lives. Can you explain more of how you see this?

LAwrence

Among other things where we do not punish criminals adequately, we do not put murderers to death as God commands. We allow millions of babies to be murdered every year. I think that is enough to convict us.

Augustus Greatorex Loc: NE

I believe in a literal judgment day. I believe there will be a day of reckoning and the watchman who fails to warn of it and those who do not repent will face the same punishment.

Rumitoid says love, but rejects anything that might define love. The commands of God are love. What he has rejected is the very word of God.

Singularity

I'll leave that for him to respond to, then. Seems to be a separate issue from this thread and a matter for y'all Christians to work out amongst yourselves.
:wink:

jay-are

My slight disagreement is that some people do evil things. I say true love is to disapprove of their evil deeds. Certainly I agree that approving of and giving love to good people who are committed to doing good, is right and is the appropriate way to act. But, when someone does evil, like filing for divorce, falsely accusing their spouse, denying children a relationship with one parent, altering their mind with drugs, damaging their body with smoking, having promiscuous sexual encounters, drunkenness, etc., etc., I hear you suggesting that we should "love" that person, and that will cause them to become a better person. I suggest that we should punish that person, and punishing wrong behavior is the loving thing to do. I suggest that tolerating their bad behavior through love and acceptance and approval, is not loving them, but it is wrong.

That is the source of my slight disagreement with you. I have seen too many times, and experienced it myself that tolerating and acceptance and approval only encourages and enables more bad behavior, and does not result in the bad behavior being stopped or corrected.

Paul says in I Corinthians 5 that loving them would mean to turn their body over to Satan in order to save their soul, and removing the wicked person from the church assembly.

rumitoid

Does God stop loving the sinner after a sin? While we were still sinners, he sent his son to suffer and die for us: was that punishment? Mercy and forgiveness is the Christian path, not punishment. It is not up to us to judge in this way. Love is the justice and power of God, not some wimpy permissiveness. You have heard of "putting burning hot coals on their heads." Loving the offender is those coals.

When a person harms someone, the worldly way is retaliation. This is expected by the offender. When instead they receive kindness and gentleness, as Christ gave every sinner he encountered, their conscience burns and it also causes questions to arise. This grace shown also tends to embarrass. The offender is flummoxed. He or she thought they had some power with their evil deeds against another, to make that person angry or scared. Deflating that sense of power with mercy and forgiveness is unnerving. The offender gets curious and then desperate to know why his weapons did not work. Love can be a trap.

jay-are

Your description of how an offender is embarrassed and thereby tormented into correcting their bad behavior is valid, but it doesn't work on everybody. There are some, and I have known some personally, who when they are loved and accepted after doing evil deeds, they feel reinforced that they are doing the right thing, and that people approve of what they are doing and would gladly have them do more of it. And they continue on to do it more and to more people. If these people are allowed to continue, they hurt more people with every evil deed. How can you call it love, when you participate in enabling them to hurt more people?

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

I often read the words of love thy neighbor, forgiveness, do not judge, do not swear false witness, and even pre-forgiveness, and so many people give their impression of what God wants. Here is the question, and not just for Rumitoid, do you actually practice your doctrine? All the things you shout about on OPP, to love, to be kind, to be forgiving, not to lie about others, to give, to not retaliate and turn the other cheek, to give to the poor and needy, to take care of one another, to be patient..... all those things that is written by the folks that comment. And why is it that so many topics are turned into a debate on religion? Not saying that discussions on religion is unnecessary or in anyway bad, but why is it that some people can not resist the urge to hold God responsible for the mistakes and inability of man to follow his laws.

rumitoid

Speaking for myself, I am not perfect, my problems with you a case in point. That I believe in and attempt to follow "love thy neighbor, forgiveness, do not judge, do not swear false witness, and even pre-forgiveness" does not mean I will not err. In a recent post that got very little attention, 'My journey to blame...' I want to some length giving my honest assessment of what I saw to be your character--when you were not talking to me. In that post I admitted as well that my inability to turn the other cheek concerning you was wrong. Enough said.

Personally, I cannot answer in any other way then as I see it from Christian beliefs. I get lambasted quite frequently for being a "libtard' and part of the NWO for my views, despite posting many conservative threads and comments. I do not get my views from the Democratic or Progressive platform but from my perspective on Scripture. This is not saying it is THE perspective or I know God's thinking on these things; it is just how I have come to understand it. And writing this I know I have made myself vulnerable but that's just the way it is.

As to making God responsible for mistakes, I have yet to see that written by anyone.

Edit: A correction, the title begins 'In Search of Blame...'
Here is an excerpt: 'Number Six: my biggest antagonist appears to be intelligent, witty, generous, loving, accomplished, patriotic, loyal, well-liked, respected, decent, caring, kind, insightful, devout, productive, responsible, and seems to h**e my guts. This has made me stop and re-think, not for the first time but more earnestly, how I have been behaving.'

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

I thank you for the comment. But, my thought was not in pointing fingers, but rather that some often quote scripture to answer questions posed by others. What holds interest is our belief that words do not make a person just or unjust. After all, many animals have been taught to talk. Case in point, Koko an ape, actually a gorilla, she had a vocabulary of 1000 signs, knew what they were and could communicate. In addition she understood another 2000 words. Parrots can mimic voices and some even figure out the meaning; for example the African Grey called Alex. Just knowing and quoting the verses, knowing the laws of God without action only makes a person a well-read sinner. The well read sinner, knows what is right and elects to take no action or they disregard the law and say or do things that they know is wrong or a lie. The quality that we look for in my religion is action. Without action, then we are disobeying the law. So goes the same for many religious people; they take action to help feed the hungry, care for those that can not care for themselves, donate time and effort, they are not overly critical of others, and true believers in One God do it without selfish motives. My religion does not look for a reward of heaven and we do not believe in the Christian hell, so what we do is in the here and now. I think that most would agree, the commandments and the laws were given as actions and not just simple points to write about or point out the flaws in other people's character.

Back to your In Search of Blame. I think perhaps that this served your need to get your feeling out to the people and your vast following on OPP. But, what other purpose did this serve? This is just my opinion, but a journal kept with your bible where you can write down your thoughts would serve the same purpose. Too often people write things in this and other sites, that I am sure they wish they could retract. I know that when I first came to OPP, I wrote a comment to another individual who eventually left the site, that I thought about and tried to find a way to delete, but the time had expired and someone else commented, so the edit function was not available. I even asked Admin if they would delete it; they came back with a firm NO. So, I keep a journal for my private thoughts that God knows, I know, and no one else needs to be offended with.

rumitoid

As to your first paragraph, I agree, and thank you for the brief zoology tour.

As to your second paragraph, if you saw nothing in all my twelve points that might interest others but just me getting my feelings out, no possible other purpose served, fine, that is, as you stated, your opinion. Yet you seem to be indicating there is something wrong with that, as if feelings have no place here.

Perhaps if you provide what you believe are the rules to properly posting comments on opp I might better be able to respond. Yet I feel fairly certain there have been comments by you here that might have been better put in your journal next to the Torah. Humans, what are going to do.

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

I was going to respond to this in detail, but I have decided to only acknowledge your comment. It would be impolite not to.