The Fire of Love in Purgatory
Nov 27, 2018 20:39:05 #
11/27/2018 The Fire of Love in Purgatory
https://catholicexchange.com/the-fire-of-love-in-purgatory?mc_cid=d3041738ac&mc_eid=67495c3389
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The Fire of Love in Purgatory
All these things, which I have securely in mind to the extent that in this life I have been able to understand them, are, compared with what I have said, extremely great.
Beside them, all the sights and sounds and justice and truths of this world seem to me lies and nothingness.
I am left confused because I cannot find words extreme enough for these things.
I perceive there to be so much conformity between God and the soul that when He sees it in the purity in which His Divine Majesty created it, He gives it a burning love, which draws it to Himself, which is strong enough to destroy it, immortal though it be, and which causes it to be so transformed in God that it sees itself as though it were none other than God.
Unceasingly God draws the soul to Himself and breathes fire into it, never letting it go until He has led it to the state from which it came forth — that is, to the pure cleanliness in which it was created.
When with its inner sight the soul sees itself drawn by God with such loving fire, then it is melted by the heat of the glowing love for God its most dear Lord, which it feels overflowing it.
And it sees by the divine light that God does not cease drawing it, nor from leading it, lovingly and with much care and unfailing foresight, to its full perfection, doing this out of His pure love.
But the soul, because it is hindered by sin, cannot go where God draws it; it cannot follow the uniting look by which God would draw it to Himself.
Again the soul perceives the grievousness of being held back from seeing the divine light; the soul’s instinct, too, since it is drawn by that uniting look, craves to be unhindered.
I say that it is the sight of these things that begets in the souls the pain they feel in Purgatory.
Not that they make account of their pain; although it is most great, they deem it a far less evil than to find themselves going against the will of God, whom they clearly see to be on fire with extreme and pure love for them.
Strongly and unceasingly this love draws the soul with that uniting look, as though it had nothing else than this to do.
Could the soul who understood this find a worse Purgatory in which to rid itself sooner of all the hindrance in its way, it would swiftly fling itself therein, driven by the conforming love between itself and God.
Mercy in Purgatory
When I look at God, I see no gate to Paradise, and yet he who wishes to enter there does so, because God is all mercy.
God stands before us with open arms to receive us into His glory.
But well I see the divine essence to be of such purity, far greater than can be imagined, that the soul in which there is even the least note of imperfection would rather cast itself into a thousand Hells than find itself thus stained in the presence of the Divine Majesty.
Therefore the soul, understanding that Purgatory has been ordained to take away those stains, casts itself therein, and seems to itself to have found great mercy in that it can rid itself there of the impediment that is the stain of sin.
No tongue can tell nor explain, no mind understand, the grievousness of Purgatory.
But although I see that there is in Purgatory as much pain as in Hell, I yet see the soul that has the least stain of imperfection accepting Purgatory as though it were a mercy, as I have said, and holding its pains of no account as compared with the least stain that hinders a soul in its love.
I seem to see that the pain that souls in Purgatory endure because of that in them which displeases God (that is, what they have willfully done against His great goodness) is greater than any other pain they feel in Purgatory.
And this is because they see the truth and the grievousness of the hindrance that prevents them from drawing near to God, since they are in grace.
https://catholicexchange.com/the-fire-of-love-in-purgatory?mc_cid=d3041738ac&mc_eid=67495c3389
https://catholicexchange.com/author/catherine-genoa
The Fire of Love in Purgatory
All these things, which I have securely in mind to the extent that in this life I have been able to understand them, are, compared with what I have said, extremely great.
Beside them, all the sights and sounds and justice and truths of this world seem to me lies and nothingness.
I am left confused because I cannot find words extreme enough for these things.
I perceive there to be so much conformity between God and the soul that when He sees it in the purity in which His Divine Majesty created it, He gives it a burning love, which draws it to Himself, which is strong enough to destroy it, immortal though it be, and which causes it to be so transformed in God that it sees itself as though it were none other than God.
Unceasingly God draws the soul to Himself and breathes fire into it, never letting it go until He has led it to the state from which it came forth — that is, to the pure cleanliness in which it was created.
When with its inner sight the soul sees itself drawn by God with such loving fire, then it is melted by the heat of the glowing love for God its most dear Lord, which it feels overflowing it.
And it sees by the divine light that God does not cease drawing it, nor from leading it, lovingly and with much care and unfailing foresight, to its full perfection, doing this out of His pure love.
But the soul, because it is hindered by sin, cannot go where God draws it; it cannot follow the uniting look by which God would draw it to Himself.
Again the soul perceives the grievousness of being held back from seeing the divine light; the soul’s instinct, too, since it is drawn by that uniting look, craves to be unhindered.
I say that it is the sight of these things that begets in the souls the pain they feel in Purgatory.
Not that they make account of their pain; although it is most great, they deem it a far less evil than to find themselves going against the will of God, whom they clearly see to be on fire with extreme and pure love for them.
Strongly and unceasingly this love draws the soul with that uniting look, as though it had nothing else than this to do.
Could the soul who understood this find a worse Purgatory in which to rid itself sooner of all the hindrance in its way, it would swiftly fling itself therein, driven by the conforming love between itself and God.
Mercy in Purgatory
When I look at God, I see no gate to Paradise, and yet he who wishes to enter there does so, because God is all mercy.
God stands before us with open arms to receive us into His glory.
But well I see the divine essence to be of such purity, far greater than can be imagined, that the soul in which there is even the least note of imperfection would rather cast itself into a thousand Hells than find itself thus stained in the presence of the Divine Majesty.
Therefore the soul, understanding that Purgatory has been ordained to take away those stains, casts itself therein, and seems to itself to have found great mercy in that it can rid itself there of the impediment that is the stain of sin.
No tongue can tell nor explain, no mind understand, the grievousness of Purgatory.
But although I see that there is in Purgatory as much pain as in Hell, I yet see the soul that has the least stain of imperfection accepting Purgatory as though it were a mercy, as I have said, and holding its pains of no account as compared with the least stain that hinders a soul in its love.
I seem to see that the pain that souls in Purgatory endure because of that in them which displeases God (that is, what they have willfully done against His great goodness) is greater than any other pain they feel in Purgatory.
And this is because they see the truth and the grievousness of the hindrance that prevents them from drawing near to God, since they are in grace.
Nov 27, 2018 22:08:40 #
Doc110 wrote:
11/27/2018 The Fire of Love in Purgatory br br ht... (show quote)
Will you be so kind to point me to the verses in the Bible where it specifically mentions, as in uses the word, Purgatory because I can't seem to find it in anywhere in my Bible.
Nov 28, 2018 00:36:54 #
mwdegutis.
Shame, Shame . . . and more Shame on you.
You could have looked this up for yourself on a google search and find Jesus Christ's actual Biblical truths, authority and instructions.
mwdegutis
"And Yet You Do Not Believe," like Saint-Apostle Thomas, the Doubter . . . . “Authority” is a major biblical theme. The most popular Greek word for “authority” is exousia (sometimes translated as “power”).
And believe in the Bible and the Truth and the fullness of the Catholic-Universal Church teachings by Jesus and the Holy Scriptural bible.
But because the hardness of your Heart, Soul and Protestant mindset.
You reject Jesus Christ's Words "Teachings, Instructions and authority to his Apostles."
"Teachings, Instructions and authority" of the Apostles, to the Early Church Fathers.
"Teachings, Instructions and authority" the Early Church Fathers, and Taught through 19 Centuries, that have been taught for almost 2 millennium by the authority of the Pope's, The Bishops, The Cardinals, The Priests, The Deacons, The Friars-Brothers, the Sisters-Nun's and the Church laity for 1987 years.
mwdegutis, a question ? Are you without "SIN ?
How are you Forgiven of your SIN'S ?
Why do you "Not" go to a priest for Confession and reconciliation of "your Sins." Yeah, once saved, always saved ? And Yet your Sin's Remain . . . .
The Jews were forgiven of their sin's by Animal sacrifice at the Temple.
There is no more Temple it was destroyed by the Romans in AD 70.
The Jewish religion is a dead religion, and The Veil-Curtain of the Temple was torn in half. God departed from the Jerusalem Temple.
The Death of Jesus:
When Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, He yielded up His spirit.
At that moment the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom.
The earth quaked and the rocks were split.
The tombs broke open, and the bodies of many saints who had fallen asleep were raised. . . . It is Purgatory where they the Saints were residing.
Matthew 27:50-52
Now did the "Many saints who had fallen asleep, where did they reside in which realm; . . . Hell ? . . . Hades ? . . . Sheol ? . . . Gehenna ? . . . . . . . Or, Purgatory . . . . ?
Jesus Appears to His Disciples
19 On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jewish leaders, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!”
20 After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord.
21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.”
22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.
23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”
John
Jesus Appears to Thomas
24 Now Thomas (also known as Didymus), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”
But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”
26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!”
27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”
28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
mwdegutis, a question ? Why do you not believe in Jesus's teaching, Instructions and authority on the Forgiveness of Sin's ?
By what Religious authority do you reject Jesus's words on Forgiveness of SIN's ?
This term, "Authority" with a variety of usages, is found some 102 times in the New Testament.
Are you without "SIN ?
Certainly Luther, Calvin, Zwingli and other Church reformers-Bible-Revisionists don't trump Jesus Christ's words.
They also don't trump, the Apostles words the Early Church Fathers words that have been taught through 19 Centuries, that have been taught for almost 2 millennium by The Pope's, The Bishops, The Cardinals, The Priests, The Deacons, The Friars-Brothers, the Sisters-Nun's and the Church laity for 1987 years.
So how are you Forgiven of your SIN'S ? By Luther, Calvin, Zwingli and other 30,000 Protestant Church reformers-Bible-Revisionists ?
Authority is attributed to God the Father; it is resident in his very nature. Authority alludes to Deity’s right to command and enforce obedience.
Christ “rebuked” both the wind and the sea, and immediately the wind ceased, and there was a “great calm” upon the water.
Matthew 8:23; Mark 4:35; Luke. 8:22
Christ thus spoke to the tree saying, “Be without fruit forever more.” Instantly the tree withered away, beginning from the roots.
Mark 11:12-14
There are no fewer than nineteen specific cases of miraculous healing performed by Jesus in the three and one half years of his ministry.
The healing miracles of Jesus involved of a wide variety of ailments, e.g., leprosy (Matthew 8:2), congenital blindness (John 9:1), restoration of a severed ear Luke 22:50-51 deafness and impediment of speech.
Mark 7:32
“That you may know that the Son of man possesses authority on earth to forgive sins (he said to the sick of palsy), I say to you, Arise, take up your bed, and go to your house.”
Mark 2:10
There were three cases during Christ’s ministry when he raised people from the dead—the daughter of Jairus (Mt. 9:18-26; Mk. 5:21-43), a widow’s son (Lk. 7:11-15), and Lazarus of Bethany (Jn. 11:43-44).
In addition, there is the subtle suggestion that in some way, the Lord was instrumental as well in the resurrection of his own body.
John 2:19
Demons (not “devils” KJV) were evil spirits (Mt. 12:43-45) under the control of Satan.
These were permitted to inhabit the bodies of some people during the earthly days of Christ and his apostles.
Almost certainly this was for the purpose of allowing the Savior and his men the opportunity of demonstrating the superiority of Christ’s authority over Satan.
Matthew 12:28-29; Luke 10:17-18; 1 John 4:4
The New Testament clearly indicates that demons were under the ultimate control of the Savior. Demons tormented a man who lived in the country of the Gerasenes.
When Christ expelled the evil spirits from the unfortunate man, the demons asked the Lord’s permission to enter a herd of swine nearby.
Even they acknowledged the Messiah’s authority.
Mark 5:6-7
“The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that cause stumbling, and them that do iniquity.”
Matthew 13:41
One of the most prominent errors in the community of “Christendom,” is a failure to properly distinguish between the purpose of the Old Testament and that of the New Testament. Many wander back and forth between the Old and New Testaments, without a clue as to the difference between the “first” and “second” of these covenants.
Hebrew 8:7; 10:9
The Authority of Jesus:
28 When Jesus had finished saying these things, the crowds were astonished at His teaching,
29 because He taught as one who had authority, and not as their scribes.
Matthew 7:28-29
Jesus, taught as one who had authority
22 The people were astonished at His teaching, because He taught as one who had authority, and not as the scribes.
Mark 1:22
Jesus's message had authority
32 They were astonished at His teaching, because His message had authority.
Luke 4:32
Jesus's words were never spoken like this man!
"Never has anyone spoken like this man!" the officers answered.
John 7:46
"If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead."
Luke 16:31
And again of the Books of Moses, He said: "If you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words ?"
John 5:47
Think about what Jesus said at the beginning of the Sermon on the Mount:
"Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me.
Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you,"
Matthew 5:11-12
"Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.
Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.
For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven;
But whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
Matthew 5:16-19
"You will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth."
Acts 1:8
"The one who listens to you listens to Me, and the one who rejects you rejects Me; and he who rejects Me rejects the One who sent Me."
Luke 10:16
On Jesus' own authority over all heaven and earth, He sent the Apostles to teach all that He had commanded them.
Matthew 28:18-20
He regarded the Old Testament writings as the very words of God that were still authoritative over His hearers. Note the particularly striking phrase in quoting from Exodus.
30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.
31 But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you,
Matthew 22:30-31
And Paul was chosen by the risen Christ Himself as His instrument to carry His name to the nations.
Acts 9:15
They wrote explicitly as the commissioned servants of Jesus Christ.
Romans 1:1, James 1:1, 2 Peter 1:1, Jude 1
The apostle Paul most emphatically declared: “...the things I write unto you ... they are the commandment of the Lord.”
1 Corinthians 14:37
He frequently undergirded his teaching with the affirmation he was speaking on behalf of Christ.
1 Thes. 4:2, 15; 2 Thes. 3:6, 12
He declared that his inspired teaching was backed by the same authority as that of his Lord.
1 Corinthians 7:10,12
We absolutely must recognize that the authority of the Son of God is resident in the inspired instruction of the New Testament.
In addition to the Lord’s creative capacity, he is involved in sustaining the present order of the created universe.
Paul contended that it is by the authority of Christ that “all things hold together.”
Colossians 1:17
Further, Jesus, in connection with his creation role, is said to “uphold all things by his powerful word.”
Hebrews 1:3
Were it not for the sustaining authority of the Son of God, our universe would come apart at the seams!
His exercise of authority, therefore, was subservient to, and consistent with, that of his Father’s.
John 5:30; 6:38
This is what the Lord had in mind when he spoke of the “authority” that was “given to” him by the Father.
John 17:2
His divine authority “in the days of his flesh” (Heb. 5:7) is important to understand as we engage this study. From this vantage point, let us reflect upon various uses of his authority as “the Son of man.”
It is, therefore, true what Paul wrote to Timothy:
"All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work."
2 Timothy 3:16-17
Every rational, sincere soul should joyfully enter Christ’s kingdom by means of the new birth process (Jn. 3:3-5), and happily and fervently serve him as king for as long as they live.
We are bound by all that God has revealed from Genesis to Revelation.
May we be reverent students and obedient servants of the whole counsel of God.
Yeah mwdegutis,
Certainly Luther, Calvin, Zwingli and other Church reformers-Bible-Revisionists don't trump, Jesus Christ's words or the Apostles, and the Early Church fathers. etc.
Catholics believe in Purgatory because it is part of our teachings by Jesus Christ, his Holy Church guided by the Holy Spirit and taught Jesus Christ's words to the Apostles who wrote the Bible and instructed, taught with authority to the Early Church fathers. etc.
It makes sense that nothing totally clean and free from sin can enter Heaven.
Revelations Chapter 21 Verse 27 proves this.
The New Jerusalem
26 And into the city will be brought the glory and honor of the nations.
27 But nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who practices an abomination or a lie, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
Revelations 21:27
Catholics believe that in order to be cleansed of our smaller sins and wrongdoings, we have to go through a purification process.
Once we are totally free from all attachments of sin, we can then enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
That is why Catholics believe in Purgatory.
You can find more information about Purgatory in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
www.catholic.com/tracts/purgatory
Because the bible tells me so…"
2 Sam 12:13-18
“David said to Nathan, ‘I have sinned against the Lord.’ And Nathan said to David, ‘The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die.
Nevertheless, because by this deed you have utterly scorned the Lord, the child that is born to you shall die.’
And the Lord struck the child that Uriah’s wife bore to David, and it became sick…
On the seventh day the child died.”
Catholic Scriptural Principle #1 – there is punishment for sin even after one has received forgiveness.
Mt 5:48,
“You, therefore, must be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect.”
That’s because of Principle #2 – nothing unclean will get into Heaven.
Rev 21:27,
“But nothing unclean shall enter it…” The New Jerusalem – Heaven.
Catholic Scriptural Principle #2 – nothing unclean, nothing with the stain of sin, will enter Heaven.
Shame, Shame . . . and more Shame on you.
You could have looked this up for yourself on a google search and find Jesus Christ's actual Biblical truths, authority and instructions.
mwdegutis
"And Yet You Do Not Believe," like Saint-Apostle Thomas, the Doubter . . . . “Authority” is a major biblical theme. The most popular Greek word for “authority” is exousia (sometimes translated as “power”).
And believe in the Bible and the Truth and the fullness of the Catholic-Universal Church teachings by Jesus and the Holy Scriptural bible.
But because the hardness of your Heart, Soul and Protestant mindset.
You reject Jesus Christ's Words "Teachings, Instructions and authority to his Apostles."
"Teachings, Instructions and authority" of the Apostles, to the Early Church Fathers.
"Teachings, Instructions and authority" the Early Church Fathers, and Taught through 19 Centuries, that have been taught for almost 2 millennium by the authority of the Pope's, The Bishops, The Cardinals, The Priests, The Deacons, The Friars-Brothers, the Sisters-Nun's and the Church laity for 1987 years.
mwdegutis, a question ? Are you without "SIN ?
How are you Forgiven of your SIN'S ?
Why do you "Not" go to a priest for Confession and reconciliation of "your Sins." Yeah, once saved, always saved ? And Yet your Sin's Remain . . . .
The Jews were forgiven of their sin's by Animal sacrifice at the Temple.
There is no more Temple it was destroyed by the Romans in AD 70.
The Jewish religion is a dead religion, and The Veil-Curtain of the Temple was torn in half. God departed from the Jerusalem Temple.
The Death of Jesus:
When Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, He yielded up His spirit.
At that moment the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom.
The earth quaked and the rocks were split.
The tombs broke open, and the bodies of many saints who had fallen asleep were raised. . . . It is Purgatory where they the Saints were residing.
Matthew 27:50-52
Now did the "Many saints who had fallen asleep, where did they reside in which realm; . . . Hell ? . . . Hades ? . . . Sheol ? . . . Gehenna ? . . . . . . . Or, Purgatory . . . . ?
Jesus Appears to His Disciples
19 On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jewish leaders, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!”
20 After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord.
21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.”
22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.
23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”
John
Jesus Appears to Thomas
24 Now Thomas (also known as Didymus), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”
But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”
26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!”
27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”
28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
mwdegutis, a question ? Why do you not believe in Jesus's teaching, Instructions and authority on the Forgiveness of Sin's ?
By what Religious authority do you reject Jesus's words on Forgiveness of SIN's ?
This term, "Authority" with a variety of usages, is found some 102 times in the New Testament.
Are you without "SIN ?
Certainly Luther, Calvin, Zwingli and other Church reformers-Bible-Revisionists don't trump Jesus Christ's words.
They also don't trump, the Apostles words the Early Church Fathers words that have been taught through 19 Centuries, that have been taught for almost 2 millennium by The Pope's, The Bishops, The Cardinals, The Priests, The Deacons, The Friars-Brothers, the Sisters-Nun's and the Church laity for 1987 years.
So how are you Forgiven of your SIN'S ? By Luther, Calvin, Zwingli and other 30,000 Protestant Church reformers-Bible-Revisionists ?
Authority is attributed to God the Father; it is resident in his very nature. Authority alludes to Deity’s right to command and enforce obedience.
Christ “rebuked” both the wind and the sea, and immediately the wind ceased, and there was a “great calm” upon the water.
Matthew 8:23; Mark 4:35; Luke. 8:22
Christ thus spoke to the tree saying, “Be without fruit forever more.” Instantly the tree withered away, beginning from the roots.
Mark 11:12-14
There are no fewer than nineteen specific cases of miraculous healing performed by Jesus in the three and one half years of his ministry.
The healing miracles of Jesus involved of a wide variety of ailments, e.g., leprosy (Matthew 8:2), congenital blindness (John 9:1), restoration of a severed ear Luke 22:50-51 deafness and impediment of speech.
Mark 7:32
“That you may know that the Son of man possesses authority on earth to forgive sins (he said to the sick of palsy), I say to you, Arise, take up your bed, and go to your house.”
Mark 2:10
There were three cases during Christ’s ministry when he raised people from the dead—the daughter of Jairus (Mt. 9:18-26; Mk. 5:21-43), a widow’s son (Lk. 7:11-15), and Lazarus of Bethany (Jn. 11:43-44).
In addition, there is the subtle suggestion that in some way, the Lord was instrumental as well in the resurrection of his own body.
John 2:19
Demons (not “devils” KJV) were evil spirits (Mt. 12:43-45) under the control of Satan.
These were permitted to inhabit the bodies of some people during the earthly days of Christ and his apostles.
Almost certainly this was for the purpose of allowing the Savior and his men the opportunity of demonstrating the superiority of Christ’s authority over Satan.
Matthew 12:28-29; Luke 10:17-18; 1 John 4:4
The New Testament clearly indicates that demons were under the ultimate control of the Savior. Demons tormented a man who lived in the country of the Gerasenes.
When Christ expelled the evil spirits from the unfortunate man, the demons asked the Lord’s permission to enter a herd of swine nearby.
Even they acknowledged the Messiah’s authority.
Mark 5:6-7
“The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that cause stumbling, and them that do iniquity.”
Matthew 13:41
One of the most prominent errors in the community of “Christendom,” is a failure to properly distinguish between the purpose of the Old Testament and that of the New Testament. Many wander back and forth between the Old and New Testaments, without a clue as to the difference between the “first” and “second” of these covenants.
Hebrew 8:7; 10:9
The Authority of Jesus:
28 When Jesus had finished saying these things, the crowds were astonished at His teaching,
29 because He taught as one who had authority, and not as their scribes.
Matthew 7:28-29
Jesus, taught as one who had authority
22 The people were astonished at His teaching, because He taught as one who had authority, and not as the scribes.
Mark 1:22
Jesus's message had authority
32 They were astonished at His teaching, because His message had authority.
Luke 4:32
Jesus's words were never spoken like this man!
"Never has anyone spoken like this man!" the officers answered.
John 7:46
"If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead."
Luke 16:31
And again of the Books of Moses, He said: "If you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words ?"
John 5:47
Think about what Jesus said at the beginning of the Sermon on the Mount:
"Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me.
Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you,"
Matthew 5:11-12
"Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.
Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.
For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven;
But whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
Matthew 5:16-19
"You will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth."
Acts 1:8
"The one who listens to you listens to Me, and the one who rejects you rejects Me; and he who rejects Me rejects the One who sent Me."
Luke 10:16
On Jesus' own authority over all heaven and earth, He sent the Apostles to teach all that He had commanded them.
Matthew 28:18-20
He regarded the Old Testament writings as the very words of God that were still authoritative over His hearers. Note the particularly striking phrase in quoting from Exodus.
30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.
31 But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you,
Matthew 22:30-31
And Paul was chosen by the risen Christ Himself as His instrument to carry His name to the nations.
Acts 9:15
They wrote explicitly as the commissioned servants of Jesus Christ.
Romans 1:1, James 1:1, 2 Peter 1:1, Jude 1
The apostle Paul most emphatically declared: “...the things I write unto you ... they are the commandment of the Lord.”
1 Corinthians 14:37
He frequently undergirded his teaching with the affirmation he was speaking on behalf of Christ.
1 Thes. 4:2, 15; 2 Thes. 3:6, 12
He declared that his inspired teaching was backed by the same authority as that of his Lord.
1 Corinthians 7:10,12
We absolutely must recognize that the authority of the Son of God is resident in the inspired instruction of the New Testament.
In addition to the Lord’s creative capacity, he is involved in sustaining the present order of the created universe.
Paul contended that it is by the authority of Christ that “all things hold together.”
Colossians 1:17
Further, Jesus, in connection with his creation role, is said to “uphold all things by his powerful word.”
Hebrews 1:3
Were it not for the sustaining authority of the Son of God, our universe would come apart at the seams!
His exercise of authority, therefore, was subservient to, and consistent with, that of his Father’s.
John 5:30; 6:38
This is what the Lord had in mind when he spoke of the “authority” that was “given to” him by the Father.
John 17:2
His divine authority “in the days of his flesh” (Heb. 5:7) is important to understand as we engage this study. From this vantage point, let us reflect upon various uses of his authority as “the Son of man.”
It is, therefore, true what Paul wrote to Timothy:
"All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work."
2 Timothy 3:16-17
Every rational, sincere soul should joyfully enter Christ’s kingdom by means of the new birth process (Jn. 3:3-5), and happily and fervently serve him as king for as long as they live.
We are bound by all that God has revealed from Genesis to Revelation.
May we be reverent students and obedient servants of the whole counsel of God.
Yeah mwdegutis,
Certainly Luther, Calvin, Zwingli and other Church reformers-Bible-Revisionists don't trump, Jesus Christ's words or the Apostles, and the Early Church fathers. etc.
Catholics believe in Purgatory because it is part of our teachings by Jesus Christ, his Holy Church guided by the Holy Spirit and taught Jesus Christ's words to the Apostles who wrote the Bible and instructed, taught with authority to the Early Church fathers. etc.
It makes sense that nothing totally clean and free from sin can enter Heaven.
Revelations Chapter 21 Verse 27 proves this.
The New Jerusalem
26 And into the city will be brought the glory and honor of the nations.
27 But nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who practices an abomination or a lie, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
Revelations 21:27
Catholics believe that in order to be cleansed of our smaller sins and wrongdoings, we have to go through a purification process.
Once we are totally free from all attachments of sin, we can then enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
That is why Catholics believe in Purgatory.
You can find more information about Purgatory in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
www.catholic.com/tracts/purgatory
Because the bible tells me so…"
2 Sam 12:13-18
“David said to Nathan, ‘I have sinned against the Lord.’ And Nathan said to David, ‘The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die.
Nevertheless, because by this deed you have utterly scorned the Lord, the child that is born to you shall die.’
And the Lord struck the child that Uriah’s wife bore to David, and it became sick…
On the seventh day the child died.”
Catholic Scriptural Principle #1 – there is punishment for sin even after one has received forgiveness.
Mt 5:48,
“You, therefore, must be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect.”
That’s because of Principle #2 – nothing unclean will get into Heaven.
Rev 21:27,
“But nothing unclean shall enter it…” The New Jerusalem – Heaven.
Catholic Scriptural Principle #2 – nothing unclean, nothing with the stain of sin, will enter Heaven.
Nov 28, 2018 02:54:27 #
http://www.catholictreasury.info/books/treatise_on_purgatory/
www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=6253
http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/ecumenical-and-interreligious/ecumenical/lutheran/hope-eternal-life.cfm
https://www.ewtn.com/library/SPIRIT/READRUE.TXT
http://www.catholic.com/tracts/the-roots-of-purgatory
http://www.catholic.com/blog/tim-staples/is-purgatory-in-the-bible
St. Thomas Aquinas, the Prince of Theologians, says that the fire of
Purgatory is equal in intensity to the fire of Hell, and that the slightest
contact with it is more dreadful than all the possible sufferings of this
Earth!
St. Augustine, the greatest of the Holy Doctors, teaches that to be
purified of their faults previous to being admitted to Heaven, souls after
death are subjected to a fire more penetrating, more dreadful than anything
we can see, or feel, or conceive in this life
"Though this fire is destined to cleanse and purify the soul, " adds the
Holy Doctor, "still it is more acute than anything we could possibly endure
on Earth. "
St. Cyril of Alexandria does not hesitate to say that "it would be
preferable to suffer all the possible torments of Earth until the Judgment
day than to pass one day in Purgatory. "
Cannon 753
Although the bishops who are in communion with the head and members of the college, whether individually or joined together in conferences of bishops or in particular councils, do not possess infallibility in teaching, they are authentic teachers and instructors of the faith for the Christian faithful entrusted to their care;
The Christian faithful are bound to adhere with religious submission of mind to the authentic magisterium of their bishops.
vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P2H.HTM
25 Descriptive and Clear Bible Passages About Purgatory
http://m.ncregister.com/blog/darmstrong/25-descriptive-and-clear-bible-passages-about-purgatory
Psalm 66:12 (RSV) Thou didst let men ride over our heads; we went through fire and through water; yet thou hast brought us forth to a spacious place.
This verse was considered a proof of purgatory by Origen and St. Ambrose, who posits the water of baptism and the fire of purgatory.
Psalm 115:16-18
The highest heavens belong to the LORD, but the earth He has given to mankind.
It is not the dead who praise the LORD, nor any who descend into silence.
But it is we who will bless the LORD, both now and forevermore. Hallelujah!
Isaiah 4:4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion and cleansed the bloodstains of Jerusalem from its midst by a spirit of judgment and by a spirit of burning.
Isaiah 1:25-26; 6:5-7; Ecclesiastes 12:14)
St. Augustine, in the 20th Book of his City of God, chapter 25, interprets this as purgatory. The preceding verse refers to the saved (“called holy” and “recorded for life”) and verses 5 and 6 describe the repose of the blessed.
Micah 7:9
I will bear the indignation of the Lord because I have sinned against him, until he pleads my cause and executes judgment for me. He will bring me forth to the light; I shall behold his deliverance.
Lev 26:41, 43; Job 40:4-5; Lam 3:39
Malachi 3:3 he will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and he will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, till they present right offerings to the LORD.
Origen, St. Irenaeus, St. Ambrose, St. Augustine, and St. Jerome all thought this was a description of purgatory.
Malachi 3:2
But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears? For he will be like a refiner’s fire or a launderer’s soap.
2 Maccabees 12:44-45
For if he were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead.
But if he was looking to the splendid reward that is laid up for those who fall asleep in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought.
Therefore he made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin.
Matthew 5:22
But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother shall be liable to the council, and whoever says, “You fool!” shall be liable to the hell of fire.
St. Francis de Sales commented:
It is only the third sort of offense which is punished with hell; therefore in the judgment of God after this life there are other pains which are not eternal or infernal, — these are the pains of Purgatory.
Matthew 5:26
Truly, I say to you, you will never get out till you have paid the last penny.
The “prison” alluded to in verse 25 is purgatory, according to Tertullian, St. Cyprian, Origen, St. Ambrose, and St. Jerome, while the “penny” represents the most minor sins that one commits.
Matthew 12:32
And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
If this sin cannot be forgiven after death, it follows that there are others which can be, and this must be in purgatory: precisely the interpretation of St. Augustine, Pope St. Gregory the Great, the Venerable Bede, and St. Bernard, among others.
“And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.” Implies forgiveness in the age to come. Where can you go to be forgiven in the age to come? Heaven? You don’t need forgiveness. Hell? There is no forgiveness.
Catholic Scriptural Principle #4 – there is a place, or state of being, other than Heaven or Hell.
Now, let’s summarize these four scriptural principles:
a. There is punishment for sin even after one has received forgiveness. We have to be perfect as the Father is perfect, because nothing unclean will enter Heaven.
b. There is some way, or process, by which the spirits of the just are made perfect.
c. There is a place besides Heaven or Hell where you can suffer loss, yet be saved, but only as through fire; and where you can be forgiven of sins from a previous age.
d. It all adds up to one inevitable conclusion —*the Catholic teaching on Purgatory is indeed scriptural.
Matthew 12:36-37
But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken.
For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”
From John 15:3
“Now ye are made clean through the words I have spoken unto you” .
Let’s not be overly selective in proof texts.
Hebrews 9:27
Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,
Hebrews 12:10
They disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, in order that we may share in his holiness.
Hebrews 12:14
Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.
Hebrews 12:1, 5-11, 15, 23, Ephesians 5:5; 1 Thessalonians 4:3; 1 John 3:2-3
Blessed John Henry Cardinal Newman observed (as an Anglican):
Even supposing a man of unholy life were suffered to enter heaven, he would not be happy there; so that it would be no mercy to permit him to enter . . .
There is a moral malady which disorders the inward sight and taste; and no man laboring under it is in a condition to enjoy what Scripture calls the fulness of joy in God’s presence, (Sermon on this verse: “Holiness Necessary for Future Blessedness,” 1834)
Heb 12:22-23,
“But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living god, the heavenly Jerusalem … and to a judge who is God of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect…”
The spirits of just men, made perfect. Catholic Scriptural Principle #3 – there is a way, a process, through which the spirits of the “just” are “made perfect.”
Hebrews 12:23
To the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,
www.equippinggodlywomen.com/faith/what-is-purgatory-what-are-indulgences/ 5
The Bible may not explicitly mention purgatory, but as Catholics we are not bound to only what is explicit in Scripture.
Our Word of God is the Word Made Flesh, a.k.a. Jesus Christ.
We follow what he revealed to us through both Sacred Scripture and the Sacred Tradition (oral teachings) that were handed down from Christ to the Apostles to their successors.
That’s what purgatory is, it’s part of the judgment, that’s what we’re talking about! But one thing we know from 1 Corinthians 3: What’s being described is after death, right? It’s the judgment. It’s not heaven. Why do we know it’s not heaven? Because there’s imperfection there. There ain’t imperfection in Heaven. It’s not hell! How do we know it’s not hell? Folks are getting saved. Does anybody get saved in hell? Got news
1 Cor 3:13-15,
“…each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day [judgment day] will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward.
If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.” Where is this place that a man, after he dies, suffers loss, as through fire, but is still saved.
Hell? No, once you’re in Hell, you don’t get out. Heaven? No, you don’t suffer loss in Heaven.
1 Corinthians 15:28-30
And when all things have been subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will be made subject to Him who put all things under Him, so that God may be all in all.
If these things are not so, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?
And why do we endanger ourselves every hour?
The Jews offered atonement and prayer for their deceased brethren, who had clearly violated Mosaic Law. Such a practice presupposes purgatory, since those in heaven wouldn’t need any help, and those in hell are beyond it.
1 Corinthians 15:52
In a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
2 Corinthians 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
9 Wherefore we labor, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Note, when we are in our bodies, we definitely are absent from the Lord.
But just because we are absent the bodies doesn’t mean we automatically are present with Him. Those who are damned are NOT present with Him.
We have to do our part in the cleansing too:
Paul says that to be absent from body is to be present with the Lord. We are also seated in heavenly places *now.
2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.
2 Corinthians 7:7-1
Therefore, since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God.
2 Timothy 2:21
All who cleanse themselves of the things I have mentioned will become special utensils, dedicated and useful to the owner of the house, ready for every good work.
Titus 1:2
In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
James 4:8
Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
1 Peter 3:18-22
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God.
He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.
After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits.
To those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, And this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.
It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.
1 Peter 4:6
For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
St. Jerome considered this verse a clear proof of purgatory.
1 John 5:16-17
If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death.
There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that.
All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.
Revelations 7:14 I answered, “Sir, you know
And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Revelations 20:11-13
Then I saw a great white throne and the One seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from His presence, and no place was found for them.
And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne. And there were open books, and one of them was the book of life. And the dead were judged according to their deeds, as recorded in the books.
The sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead, and each one was judged according to his deed
Your works are judged when you pass from this earthly life … not when you are here on earth.
Revelation 21:27
But nothing unclean shall enter it, nor any one who practises abomination or falsehood, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
The abundance of scriptural evidence for purgatory led to a consensus among the Church fathers: summarized by Protestant church historian Philip Schaff:
These views of the middle state in connection with prayers for the dead show a strong tendency to the Roman Catholic doctrine of Purgatory. (History of the Christian Church, vol. 2, “Ante-Nicene Christianity: A. D. 100-325,” 5th edition, New York: 1889; ch. 12, sec. 156, 604-606)
www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=6253
http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/ecumenical-and-interreligious/ecumenical/lutheran/hope-eternal-life.cfm
https://www.ewtn.com/library/SPIRIT/READRUE.TXT
http://www.catholic.com/tracts/the-roots-of-purgatory
http://www.catholic.com/blog/tim-staples/is-purgatory-in-the-bible
St. Thomas Aquinas, the Prince of Theologians, says that the fire of
Purgatory is equal in intensity to the fire of Hell, and that the slightest
contact with it is more dreadful than all the possible sufferings of this
Earth!
St. Augustine, the greatest of the Holy Doctors, teaches that to be
purified of their faults previous to being admitted to Heaven, souls after
death are subjected to a fire more penetrating, more dreadful than anything
we can see, or feel, or conceive in this life
"Though this fire is destined to cleanse and purify the soul, " adds the
Holy Doctor, "still it is more acute than anything we could possibly endure
on Earth. "
St. Cyril of Alexandria does not hesitate to say that "it would be
preferable to suffer all the possible torments of Earth until the Judgment
day than to pass one day in Purgatory. "
Cannon 753
Although the bishops who are in communion with the head and members of the college, whether individually or joined together in conferences of bishops or in particular councils, do not possess infallibility in teaching, they are authentic teachers and instructors of the faith for the Christian faithful entrusted to their care;
The Christian faithful are bound to adhere with religious submission of mind to the authentic magisterium of their bishops.
vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P2H.HTM
25 Descriptive and Clear Bible Passages About Purgatory
http://m.ncregister.com/blog/darmstrong/25-descriptive-and-clear-bible-passages-about-purgatory
Psalm 66:12 (RSV) Thou didst let men ride over our heads; we went through fire and through water; yet thou hast brought us forth to a spacious place.
This verse was considered a proof of purgatory by Origen and St. Ambrose, who posits the water of baptism and the fire of purgatory.
Psalm 115:16-18
The highest heavens belong to the LORD, but the earth He has given to mankind.
It is not the dead who praise the LORD, nor any who descend into silence.
But it is we who will bless the LORD, both now and forevermore. Hallelujah!
Isaiah 4:4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion and cleansed the bloodstains of Jerusalem from its midst by a spirit of judgment and by a spirit of burning.
Isaiah 1:25-26; 6:5-7; Ecclesiastes 12:14)
St. Augustine, in the 20th Book of his City of God, chapter 25, interprets this as purgatory. The preceding verse refers to the saved (“called holy” and “recorded for life”) and verses 5 and 6 describe the repose of the blessed.
Micah 7:9
I will bear the indignation of the Lord because I have sinned against him, until he pleads my cause and executes judgment for me. He will bring me forth to the light; I shall behold his deliverance.
Lev 26:41, 43; Job 40:4-5; Lam 3:39
Malachi 3:3 he will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and he will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, till they present right offerings to the LORD.
Origen, St. Irenaeus, St. Ambrose, St. Augustine, and St. Jerome all thought this was a description of purgatory.
Malachi 3:2
But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears? For he will be like a refiner’s fire or a launderer’s soap.
2 Maccabees 12:44-45
For if he were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead.
But if he was looking to the splendid reward that is laid up for those who fall asleep in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought.
Therefore he made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin.
Matthew 5:22
But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother shall be liable to the council, and whoever says, “You fool!” shall be liable to the hell of fire.
St. Francis de Sales commented:
It is only the third sort of offense which is punished with hell; therefore in the judgment of God after this life there are other pains which are not eternal or infernal, — these are the pains of Purgatory.
Matthew 5:26
Truly, I say to you, you will never get out till you have paid the last penny.
The “prison” alluded to in verse 25 is purgatory, according to Tertullian, St. Cyprian, Origen, St. Ambrose, and St. Jerome, while the “penny” represents the most minor sins that one commits.
Matthew 12:32
And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
If this sin cannot be forgiven after death, it follows that there are others which can be, and this must be in purgatory: precisely the interpretation of St. Augustine, Pope St. Gregory the Great, the Venerable Bede, and St. Bernard, among others.
“And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.” Implies forgiveness in the age to come. Where can you go to be forgiven in the age to come? Heaven? You don’t need forgiveness. Hell? There is no forgiveness.
Catholic Scriptural Principle #4 – there is a place, or state of being, other than Heaven or Hell.
Now, let’s summarize these four scriptural principles:
a. There is punishment for sin even after one has received forgiveness. We have to be perfect as the Father is perfect, because nothing unclean will enter Heaven.
b. There is some way, or process, by which the spirits of the just are made perfect.
c. There is a place besides Heaven or Hell where you can suffer loss, yet be saved, but only as through fire; and where you can be forgiven of sins from a previous age.
d. It all adds up to one inevitable conclusion —*the Catholic teaching on Purgatory is indeed scriptural.
Matthew 12:36-37
But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken.
For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”
From John 15:3
“Now ye are made clean through the words I have spoken unto you” .
Let’s not be overly selective in proof texts.
Hebrews 9:27
Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,
Hebrews 12:10
They disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, in order that we may share in his holiness.
Hebrews 12:14
Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.
Hebrews 12:1, 5-11, 15, 23, Ephesians 5:5; 1 Thessalonians 4:3; 1 John 3:2-3
Blessed John Henry Cardinal Newman observed (as an Anglican):
Even supposing a man of unholy life were suffered to enter heaven, he would not be happy there; so that it would be no mercy to permit him to enter . . .
There is a moral malady which disorders the inward sight and taste; and no man laboring under it is in a condition to enjoy what Scripture calls the fulness of joy in God’s presence, (Sermon on this verse: “Holiness Necessary for Future Blessedness,” 1834)
Heb 12:22-23,
“But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living god, the heavenly Jerusalem … and to a judge who is God of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect…”
The spirits of just men, made perfect. Catholic Scriptural Principle #3 – there is a way, a process, through which the spirits of the “just” are “made perfect.”
Hebrews 12:23
To the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,
www.equippinggodlywomen.com/faith/what-is-purgatory-what-are-indulgences/ 5
The Bible may not explicitly mention purgatory, but as Catholics we are not bound to only what is explicit in Scripture.
Our Word of God is the Word Made Flesh, a.k.a. Jesus Christ.
We follow what he revealed to us through both Sacred Scripture and the Sacred Tradition (oral teachings) that were handed down from Christ to the Apostles to their successors.
That’s what purgatory is, it’s part of the judgment, that’s what we’re talking about! But one thing we know from 1 Corinthians 3: What’s being described is after death, right? It’s the judgment. It’s not heaven. Why do we know it’s not heaven? Because there’s imperfection there. There ain’t imperfection in Heaven. It’s not hell! How do we know it’s not hell? Folks are getting saved. Does anybody get saved in hell? Got news
1 Cor 3:13-15,
“…each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day [judgment day] will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward.
If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.” Where is this place that a man, after he dies, suffers loss, as through fire, but is still saved.
Hell? No, once you’re in Hell, you don’t get out. Heaven? No, you don’t suffer loss in Heaven.
1 Corinthians 15:28-30
And when all things have been subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will be made subject to Him who put all things under Him, so that God may be all in all.
If these things are not so, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?
And why do we endanger ourselves every hour?
The Jews offered atonement and prayer for their deceased brethren, who had clearly violated Mosaic Law. Such a practice presupposes purgatory, since those in heaven wouldn’t need any help, and those in hell are beyond it.
1 Corinthians 15:52
In a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
2 Corinthians 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
9 Wherefore we labor, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Note, when we are in our bodies, we definitely are absent from the Lord.
But just because we are absent the bodies doesn’t mean we automatically are present with Him. Those who are damned are NOT present with Him.
We have to do our part in the cleansing too:
Paul says that to be absent from body is to be present with the Lord. We are also seated in heavenly places *now.
2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.
2 Corinthians 7:7-1
Therefore, since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God.
2 Timothy 2:21
All who cleanse themselves of the things I have mentioned will become special utensils, dedicated and useful to the owner of the house, ready for every good work.
Titus 1:2
In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
James 4:8
Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
1 Peter 3:18-22
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God.
He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.
After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits.
To those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, And this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.
It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.
1 Peter 4:6
For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
St. Jerome considered this verse a clear proof of purgatory.
1 John 5:16-17
If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death.
There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that.
All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.
Revelations 7:14 I answered, “Sir, you know
And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Revelations 20:11-13
Then I saw a great white throne and the One seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from His presence, and no place was found for them.
And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne. And there were open books, and one of them was the book of life. And the dead were judged according to their deeds, as recorded in the books.
The sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead, and each one was judged according to his deed
Your works are judged when you pass from this earthly life … not when you are here on earth.
Revelation 21:27
But nothing unclean shall enter it, nor any one who practises abomination or falsehood, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
The abundance of scriptural evidence for purgatory led to a consensus among the Church fathers: summarized by Protestant church historian Philip Schaff:
These views of the middle state in connection with prayers for the dead show a strong tendency to the Roman Catholic doctrine of Purgatory. (History of the Christian Church, vol. 2, “Ante-Nicene Christianity: A. D. 100-325,” 5th edition, New York: 1889; ch. 12, sec. 156, 604-606)
Nov 28, 2018 03:49:26 #
Habakkuk 1:13
Your eyes are too pure to look on evil; you cannot tolerate wrongdoing.
Why then do you tolerate the treacherous?
Why are you silent while the wicked swallow up those more righteous than themselves?
"You [God]... are of purer eyes than to behold evil and cannot look on wrong..."
How many of us will be perfectly sanctified at the time of our deaths?
I dare say most of us will be in need of further purification in order to enter the gates of heaven after we die, if, please God, we die in a state of grace.
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/is-purgatory-in-the-bible
http://shop.catholic.com/god-s-perfect-plan-purgatory-and-indulgences-explained.html?___store=default
In light of this, the truth about Purgatory is almost self-evident to Catholics. However, to many Protestants this is one of the most repugnant of all Catholic teachings.
The Catholic Response:
Rejecting the inspiration and canonicity of II Maccabees does not negate its historical value.
Maccabees aids us in knowing, purely from an historical perspective at the very least, the Jews believed in praying and making atonement for the dead shortly before the advent of Christ.
This is the faith in which Jesus and the apostles were raised.
And it is in this context Jesus declares in the New Testament:
And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come (Matthew 12:32, emphasis added).
This declaration of our Lord implies there are at least some sins that can be forgiven in the next life to a people who already believed it.
If Jesus wanted to condemn this teaching commonly taught in Israel, he was not doing a very good job of it according to St. Matthew’s Gospel.
The next objection presents a more complex problem. The punishment for mortal sin is, in fact, definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed in Hell according to Catholic teaching (see CCC 1030).
But it is a non-sequitur to conclude from this teaching that II Maccabees could not be referring to a type of Purgatory.
First of all, a careful reading of the text reveals the sin of these men to be carrying small amulets “or sacred tokens of the idols of Jamnia” under their tunics as they were going in to battle.
This would be closer to a Christian baseball player believing there is some kind of power in his performing superstitious rituals before going to bat than it would be to the mortal sin of idolatry. This was, most likely, a venial sin for them.
But even if what they did would have been objectively grave matter, good Jews in ancient times—just like good Catholics today—believed they should always pray for the souls of those who have died “for thou [O Lord], thou only knowest the hearts of the children of men” (II Chr. 6:30).
God alone knows the degree of culpability of these “sinners.” Moreover, some or all of them may have repented before they died.
Both Jews and Catholic Christians always retain hope for the salvation of the deceased this side of heaven; thus, we always pray for those who have died.
A Plainer Text
In Matthew 5:24-25,
Jesus is even more explicit about Purgatory.
Make friends quickly with your accuser, while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison; truly I say to you, you will never get out till you have paid the last penny.
(Matthew 5:25-26).
For Catholics, Tertullian for example, in De Anima 58, written in ca. AD 208, this teaching is parabolic, using the well-known example of “prison” and the necessary penitence it represents, as a metaphor for Purgatorial suffering that will be required for lesser transgressions, represented by the “kodrantes” or “penny” of verse 26.
But for many Protestants, our Lord is here giving simple instructions to his followers concerning this life exclusively. This has nothing to do with Purgatory.
This traditional Protestant interpretation is very weak contextually.
These verses are found in the midst of the famous “Sermon on the Mount,” where our Lord teaches about heaven (vs. 20), hell (vs. 29-30), and both mortal (vs. 22) and venial sins (vs. 19), in a context that presents “the Kingdom of Heaven” as the ultimate goal (see verses 3-12).
Our Lord goes on to say if you do not love your enemies, “what reward have you” (verse 46)?
And he makes very clear these “rewards” are not of this world.
They are “rewards from your Father who is in heaven” (6:1) or “treasures in heaven” (6:19).
Further, as St. John points out in John 20:31, all Scripture is written “that believing, you may have [eternal] life in his name.”
Scripture must always be viewed in the context of our full realization of the divine life in the world to come.
Our present life is presented “as a vapor which appears for a little while, and afterwards shall vanish away” (James 1:17).
It would seem odd to see the deeper and even “other worldly” emphasis throughout the Sermon of the Mount, excepting these two verses.
When we add to this the fact that the Greek word for prison, phulake, is the same word used by St. Peter, in I Peter 3:19,
To describe the “holding place” into which Jesus descended after his death to liberate the detained spirits of Old Testament believers, the Catholic position makes even more sense. Phulake is demonstrably used in the New Testament to refer to a temporary holding place and not exclusively in this life.
The Plainest Text
I Corinthians 3:11-15 may well be the most straightforward text in all of Sacred Scripture when it comes to Purgatory:
For no other foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble—each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done.
If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.
No Christian sect I know of even attempts to deny this text speaks of the judgment of God where the works of the faithful will be tested after death.
It says our works will go through “fire,” figuratively speaking. In Scripture, “fire” is used metaphorically in two ways: as a purifying agent
(Mal. 3:2-3; Matt. 3:11; Mark 9:49);
And as that which consumes (Matt. 3:12; 2 Thess. 1:7-8).
So it is a fitting symbol here for God’s judgment. Some of the “works” represented are being burned up and some are being purified. These works survive or burn according to their essential “quality” (Gr. hopoiov - of what sort).
What is being referred to cannot be heaven because there are imperfections that need to be “burned up.”
(see again, Rev. 21:27, Hab. 1:13).
It cannot be hell because souls are being saved. So what is it? The Protestant calls it “the Judgment” and we Catholics agree. We Catholics simply specify the part of the judgment of the saved where imperfections are purged as “Purgatory.”
Objection!
The Protestant respondent will immediately spotlight the fact that there is no mention, at least explicitly, of “the cleansing of sin” anywhere in the text.
There is only the testing of works.
The focus is on the rewards believers will receive for their service, not on how their character is cleansed from sin or imperfection. And the believers here watch their works go through the fire, but they escape it!
First, what are sins, but bad or wicked works (see Matthew 7:21-23, John 8:40, Galatians 5:19-21)?
If these “works” do not represent sins and imperfections, why would they need to be eliminated?
Second, it is impossible for a “work” to be cleansed apart from the human being who performed it. We are, in a certain sense, what we do when it comes to our moral choices.
There is no such thing as a “work” floating around somewhere detached from a human being that could be cleansed apart from that human being.
The idea of works being separate from persons does not make sense.
Most importantly, however, this idea of “works” being “burned up” apart from the soul that performed the work contradicts the text itself.
The text does say the works will be tested by fire, but “if the work survives... he will receive a reward.
If any man’s work is burned up, he shall suffer loss.” And, “he will be saved, but only as through fire” (Gr. dia puros).
The truth is: both the works of the individual and the individual will go through the cleansing “fire” described by St. Paul in order that “he” might finally be saved and enter into the joy of the Lord.
Sounds an awful lot like Purgatory.
It represents “a medieval invention nowhere to be found in the Bible.” It's often called "a denial of the sufficiency of Christ's sacrifice." It is said to represent "a second-chance theology that is abominable."
We get these and many more such charges here at Catholic Answers when it comes to Purgatory.
And most often the inquiries come from Catholics who are asking for help to explain Purgatory to a friend, family member, or co-worker.
Your eyes are too pure to look on evil; you cannot tolerate wrongdoing.
Why then do you tolerate the treacherous?
Why are you silent while the wicked swallow up those more righteous than themselves?
"You [God]... are of purer eyes than to behold evil and cannot look on wrong..."
How many of us will be perfectly sanctified at the time of our deaths?
I dare say most of us will be in need of further purification in order to enter the gates of heaven after we die, if, please God, we die in a state of grace.
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/is-purgatory-in-the-bible
http://shop.catholic.com/god-s-perfect-plan-purgatory-and-indulgences-explained.html?___store=default
In light of this, the truth about Purgatory is almost self-evident to Catholics. However, to many Protestants this is one of the most repugnant of all Catholic teachings.
The Catholic Response:
Rejecting the inspiration and canonicity of II Maccabees does not negate its historical value.
Maccabees aids us in knowing, purely from an historical perspective at the very least, the Jews believed in praying and making atonement for the dead shortly before the advent of Christ.
This is the faith in which Jesus and the apostles were raised.
And it is in this context Jesus declares in the New Testament:
And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come (Matthew 12:32, emphasis added).
This declaration of our Lord implies there are at least some sins that can be forgiven in the next life to a people who already believed it.
If Jesus wanted to condemn this teaching commonly taught in Israel, he was not doing a very good job of it according to St. Matthew’s Gospel.
The next objection presents a more complex problem. The punishment for mortal sin is, in fact, definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed in Hell according to Catholic teaching (see CCC 1030).
But it is a non-sequitur to conclude from this teaching that II Maccabees could not be referring to a type of Purgatory.
First of all, a careful reading of the text reveals the sin of these men to be carrying small amulets “or sacred tokens of the idols of Jamnia” under their tunics as they were going in to battle.
This would be closer to a Christian baseball player believing there is some kind of power in his performing superstitious rituals before going to bat than it would be to the mortal sin of idolatry. This was, most likely, a venial sin for them.
But even if what they did would have been objectively grave matter, good Jews in ancient times—just like good Catholics today—believed they should always pray for the souls of those who have died “for thou [O Lord], thou only knowest the hearts of the children of men” (II Chr. 6:30).
God alone knows the degree of culpability of these “sinners.” Moreover, some or all of them may have repented before they died.
Both Jews and Catholic Christians always retain hope for the salvation of the deceased this side of heaven; thus, we always pray for those who have died.
A Plainer Text
In Matthew 5:24-25,
Jesus is even more explicit about Purgatory.
Make friends quickly with your accuser, while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison; truly I say to you, you will never get out till you have paid the last penny.
(Matthew 5:25-26).
For Catholics, Tertullian for example, in De Anima 58, written in ca. AD 208, this teaching is parabolic, using the well-known example of “prison” and the necessary penitence it represents, as a metaphor for Purgatorial suffering that will be required for lesser transgressions, represented by the “kodrantes” or “penny” of verse 26.
But for many Protestants, our Lord is here giving simple instructions to his followers concerning this life exclusively. This has nothing to do with Purgatory.
This traditional Protestant interpretation is very weak contextually.
These verses are found in the midst of the famous “Sermon on the Mount,” where our Lord teaches about heaven (vs. 20), hell (vs. 29-30), and both mortal (vs. 22) and venial sins (vs. 19), in a context that presents “the Kingdom of Heaven” as the ultimate goal (see verses 3-12).
Our Lord goes on to say if you do not love your enemies, “what reward have you” (verse 46)?
And he makes very clear these “rewards” are not of this world.
They are “rewards from your Father who is in heaven” (6:1) or “treasures in heaven” (6:19).
Further, as St. John points out in John 20:31, all Scripture is written “that believing, you may have [eternal] life in his name.”
Scripture must always be viewed in the context of our full realization of the divine life in the world to come.
Our present life is presented “as a vapor which appears for a little while, and afterwards shall vanish away” (James 1:17).
It would seem odd to see the deeper and even “other worldly” emphasis throughout the Sermon of the Mount, excepting these two verses.
When we add to this the fact that the Greek word for prison, phulake, is the same word used by St. Peter, in I Peter 3:19,
To describe the “holding place” into which Jesus descended after his death to liberate the detained spirits of Old Testament believers, the Catholic position makes even more sense. Phulake is demonstrably used in the New Testament to refer to a temporary holding place and not exclusively in this life.
The Plainest Text
I Corinthians 3:11-15 may well be the most straightforward text in all of Sacred Scripture when it comes to Purgatory:
For no other foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble—each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done.
If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.
No Christian sect I know of even attempts to deny this text speaks of the judgment of God where the works of the faithful will be tested after death.
It says our works will go through “fire,” figuratively speaking. In Scripture, “fire” is used metaphorically in two ways: as a purifying agent
(Mal. 3:2-3; Matt. 3:11; Mark 9:49);
And as that which consumes (Matt. 3:12; 2 Thess. 1:7-8).
So it is a fitting symbol here for God’s judgment. Some of the “works” represented are being burned up and some are being purified. These works survive or burn according to their essential “quality” (Gr. hopoiov - of what sort).
What is being referred to cannot be heaven because there are imperfections that need to be “burned up.”
(see again, Rev. 21:27, Hab. 1:13).
It cannot be hell because souls are being saved. So what is it? The Protestant calls it “the Judgment” and we Catholics agree. We Catholics simply specify the part of the judgment of the saved where imperfections are purged as “Purgatory.”
Objection!
The Protestant respondent will immediately spotlight the fact that there is no mention, at least explicitly, of “the cleansing of sin” anywhere in the text.
There is only the testing of works.
The focus is on the rewards believers will receive for their service, not on how their character is cleansed from sin or imperfection. And the believers here watch their works go through the fire, but they escape it!
First, what are sins, but bad or wicked works (see Matthew 7:21-23, John 8:40, Galatians 5:19-21)?
If these “works” do not represent sins and imperfections, why would they need to be eliminated?
Second, it is impossible for a “work” to be cleansed apart from the human being who performed it. We are, in a certain sense, what we do when it comes to our moral choices.
There is no such thing as a “work” floating around somewhere detached from a human being that could be cleansed apart from that human being.
The idea of works being separate from persons does not make sense.
Most importantly, however, this idea of “works” being “burned up” apart from the soul that performed the work contradicts the text itself.
The text does say the works will be tested by fire, but “if the work survives... he will receive a reward.
If any man’s work is burned up, he shall suffer loss.” And, “he will be saved, but only as through fire” (Gr. dia puros).
The truth is: both the works of the individual and the individual will go through the cleansing “fire” described by St. Paul in order that “he” might finally be saved and enter into the joy of the Lord.
Sounds an awful lot like Purgatory.
It represents “a medieval invention nowhere to be found in the Bible.” It's often called "a denial of the sufficiency of Christ's sacrifice." It is said to represent "a second-chance theology that is abominable."
We get these and many more such charges here at Catholic Answers when it comes to Purgatory.
And most often the inquiries come from Catholics who are asking for help to explain Purgatory to a friend, family member, or co-worker.
Nov 28, 2018 05:33:58 #
mwdegutis,
Read, . . . Read and, . . . Read again, . . . mwdegutis . . . . .
Since you are an intelligent Independent Biblical self-Interpreting Protestant, . . . Then why are you playing the coy Protestant doubter's game on the Catholic term Purgatory ?
Tell me in your Church, . . . who help's you when you can't seem to understand the Bible passages ? . . .
When you are totally biblically dumb founded on a word or verse ? . . .
And you just cant' seem to find an answer ? And or find a solution to the dilemma, the conundrum, and word semantics problem that you have put your Protestant Biblical understanding of the Church Tradition word concept of Purgatory ?
I've given you the answer mwdegutis, on the two page thread of biblical verse's, and yet you choose to play the religious simpleton-ignorant game.
Maybe try reading the thread a second time, a third time, or a fourth time ?
The article and the Old Testament and New Testament Biblical verses, just might sink Innnnnnnnnnnnnnnn. ......................
1. Really, I mean really mwdegutis, . . . are you really asking this dumb question of me ?
Did you even read the two page thread and defense of the Catholic Church understanding of the word Purgatory" ?
"Will you be so kind to point me to the verses in the Bible where it specifically mentions, as in uses the word, Purgatory" ?
So I get it ? mwdegutis, lets rely on "Sola Scriptura" the Bible Alone, Protestant fallback argument routine here on the OPP religious post article thread.
It's the same old "Straw-Man" routine you and the Five riders of the Apocalypse like to play the Protestant ignorance game ?
Boring mwdegutis, get a new Religious Protestant strategy, I know the antics and games you all play on the OPP Religious Forum. . . . Been there, done that ?
Since you challenging me on the Catholic Churches doctrine of Purgatory.
You mwdegutis, need to show me where Protestant Term "Sola Scriptura" is found in the Bible.
There is no biblical verse says the "Bible Only" protestant doctrine. . . .
What a nice 7th grade protestant argument try . . . . It's almost laughable, what a lame question and response to the two pages of facts and commentary on Purgatory.
When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” . . . .
John 8:7
Here are a few articles to refute the "Twenty One Reasons to Reject Sola Scriptura," . . . "Yes" . . . 21 reasons to Reject, Protestant Sola Scriptura
http://catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/protestantism/sola.htm
A Quick Ten-Step Refutation of Sola Scriptura
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/a-quick-ten-step-refutation-of-sola-scriptura
The Catholic Church Determined the Canon of Scripture, Tradition, All Scripture is Inspired, Church Fathers, Scripture is not Subject to Private Interpretation. Protestantism - It threw Christianity Out the Window ! The End of Sola Scriptura
a. Scripture Alone, (“Sola Scriptura”). (Part 1)
https://www.scripturecatholic.com/scripture-alone-sola-scriptura/
b. Scripture Alone, (“Sola Scriptura”). (Part 2)
https://www.scripturecatholic.com/scripture-alone-sola-scriptura/
c. Scripture Alone, (“Sola Scriptura”). (Part 3)
https://www.scripturecatholic.com/scripture-alone-sola-scriptura/
d. 11/27/2018 Scripture Alone, (“Sola Scriptura”). (Part 4)
https://www.scripturecatholic.com/scripture-alone-sola-scriptura/
e. Scripture Alone, (“Sola Scriptura”). (Part 5)
https://www.scripturecatholic.com/scripture-alone-sola-scriptura/
2. mwdegutis, I took the time to edit several articles and to make it easy for you to read and comprehend the Catholic-Universal Church biblical understanding of Purgatory.
3. Bible and Church authority teaches what sin actually is ? . . . What "Mortal Sin's" and "Venial Sin's" are. . . . . Living one's life in grace and the perils of death in mortal sin.
4. You reject teaching Authority of Jesus Christ, to forgive Sin's, to retain Sin's and Jesus's instructions to the Apostles, who instructed the Early Church Fathers to the Present time.
5. mwdegutis, I will give you a hint, a tease answer on Purgatory . . . It has to do with the Holy Trinity ? God The Father, God the Son, And God the Holy Spirit.
The word Trinity is not itself found in the Bible.
It was first used by Tertullian at the close of the 2nd century, but received wide currency [common use in intellectual discussion] and formal elucidation [clarification] only in the 4th and 5th centuries.”
(1996, “Trinity”).
And yet you believe in the Holy Trinity.
Yes or No ?
Doc110
50 50 biblical evidences for the Holy Trinity
http://www.ncregister.com/blog/darmstrong/50-biblical-evidences-for-the-holy-trinity
25 Bible Verses About The Trinity
https://www.biblestudytools.com/topical-verses/bible-verses-about-the-trinity/
100 Bible Verses about "The Trinity."
https://www.openbible.info/topics/the_trinity
Matthew 28:19
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
John 10:30
I and the Father are one.”
2 Corinthians 13:14
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.
Matthew 3:16-17
And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.”
1 Corinthians 8:6
Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
1 Peter 1:2
According to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.
John 14:26
But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.
John 14:16-17 E
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.
Genesis 1:26
Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
John 1:1-51
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.
All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men.
The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. ...
John 1:14
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Colossians 2:9
For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,
1 John 5:7-8
For there are three that testify: the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree.
John 15:26
“But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me.
Ephesians 4:4-6
There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call— one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
Philippians 2:5-8
Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Colossians 1:15-17
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
John 10:30-36
I and the Father are one.” The Jews picked up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?”
The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.”
Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? ...
Luke 3:21-22
Now when all the people were baptized, and when Jesus also had been baptized and was praying, the heavens were opened, and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form, like a dove; and a voice came from heaven, “You are my beloved Son; with you I am well pleased.”
Acts 5:3-4
But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back for yourself part of the proceeds of the land?
While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal?
Why is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.”
Genesis 3:22
Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever—”
2 Corinthians 3:17
Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
2 Corinthians 1:21-22
And it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us, and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Revelation 22:13
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”
John 14:9-11
Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip?
Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me?
The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works.
Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves.
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Luke 1:35
And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.
John 14:16
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever,
Matthew 1:23
“Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel” (which means, God with us).
1 John 5:7
For there are three that testify:
Genesis 11:7
Come, let us go down and there confuse their language, so that they may not understand one another's speech.”
Jude 1:20-21
But you, beloved, building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ that leads to eternal life.
1 Corinthians 2:10-11
These things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
Matthew 3:13-17
Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to John, to be baptized by him. John would have prevented him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?”
But Jesus answered him, “Let it be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he consented.
And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.”
Isaiah 48:16
Draw near to me, hear this: from the beginning I have not spoken in secret, from the time it came to be I have been there.” And now the Lord God has sent me, and his Spirit.
Isaiah 44:6
Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god.
Hebrews 9:14
How much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.
1 Corinthians 12:4-6
Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone.
John 17:22
The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one,
John 1:3
All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Deuteronomy 6:4
“Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
Read, . . . Read and, . . . Read again, . . . mwdegutis . . . . .
Since you are an intelligent Independent Biblical self-Interpreting Protestant, . . . Then why are you playing the coy Protestant doubter's game on the Catholic term Purgatory ?
Tell me in your Church, . . . who help's you when you can't seem to understand the Bible passages ? . . .
When you are totally biblically dumb founded on a word or verse ? . . .
And you just cant' seem to find an answer ? And or find a solution to the dilemma, the conundrum, and word semantics problem that you have put your Protestant Biblical understanding of the Church Tradition word concept of Purgatory ?
I've given you the answer mwdegutis, on the two page thread of biblical verse's, and yet you choose to play the religious simpleton-ignorant game.
Maybe try reading the thread a second time, a third time, or a fourth time ?
The article and the Old Testament and New Testament Biblical verses, just might sink Innnnnnnnnnnnnnnn. ......................
1. Really, I mean really mwdegutis, . . . are you really asking this dumb question of me ?
Did you even read the two page thread and defense of the Catholic Church understanding of the word Purgatory" ?
"Will you be so kind to point me to the verses in the Bible where it specifically mentions, as in uses the word, Purgatory" ?
So I get it ? mwdegutis, lets rely on "Sola Scriptura" the Bible Alone, Protestant fallback argument routine here on the OPP religious post article thread.
It's the same old "Straw-Man" routine you and the Five riders of the Apocalypse like to play the Protestant ignorance game ?
Boring mwdegutis, get a new Religious Protestant strategy, I know the antics and games you all play on the OPP Religious Forum. . . . Been there, done that ?
Since you challenging me on the Catholic Churches doctrine of Purgatory.
You mwdegutis, need to show me where Protestant Term "Sola Scriptura" is found in the Bible.
There is no biblical verse says the "Bible Only" protestant doctrine. . . .
What a nice 7th grade protestant argument try . . . . It's almost laughable, what a lame question and response to the two pages of facts and commentary on Purgatory.
When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” . . . .
John 8:7
Here are a few articles to refute the "Twenty One Reasons to Reject Sola Scriptura," . . . "Yes" . . . 21 reasons to Reject, Protestant Sola Scriptura
http://catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/protestantism/sola.htm
A Quick Ten-Step Refutation of Sola Scriptura
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/a-quick-ten-step-refutation-of-sola-scriptura
The Catholic Church Determined the Canon of Scripture, Tradition, All Scripture is Inspired, Church Fathers, Scripture is not Subject to Private Interpretation. Protestantism - It threw Christianity Out the Window ! The End of Sola Scriptura
a. Scripture Alone, (“Sola Scriptura”). (Part 1)
https://www.scripturecatholic.com/scripture-alone-sola-scriptura/
b. Scripture Alone, (“Sola Scriptura”). (Part 2)
https://www.scripturecatholic.com/scripture-alone-sola-scriptura/
c. Scripture Alone, (“Sola Scriptura”). (Part 3)
https://www.scripturecatholic.com/scripture-alone-sola-scriptura/
d. 11/27/2018 Scripture Alone, (“Sola Scriptura”). (Part 4)
https://www.scripturecatholic.com/scripture-alone-sola-scriptura/
e. Scripture Alone, (“Sola Scriptura”). (Part 5)
https://www.scripturecatholic.com/scripture-alone-sola-scriptura/
2. mwdegutis, I took the time to edit several articles and to make it easy for you to read and comprehend the Catholic-Universal Church biblical understanding of Purgatory.
3. Bible and Church authority teaches what sin actually is ? . . . What "Mortal Sin's" and "Venial Sin's" are. . . . . Living one's life in grace and the perils of death in mortal sin.
4. You reject teaching Authority of Jesus Christ, to forgive Sin's, to retain Sin's and Jesus's instructions to the Apostles, who instructed the Early Church Fathers to the Present time.
5. mwdegutis, I will give you a hint, a tease answer on Purgatory . . . It has to do with the Holy Trinity ? God The Father, God the Son, And God the Holy Spirit.
The word Trinity is not itself found in the Bible.
It was first used by Tertullian at the close of the 2nd century, but received wide currency [common use in intellectual discussion] and formal elucidation [clarification] only in the 4th and 5th centuries.”
(1996, “Trinity”).
And yet you believe in the Holy Trinity.
Yes or No ?
Doc110
50 50 biblical evidences for the Holy Trinity
http://www.ncregister.com/blog/darmstrong/50-biblical-evidences-for-the-holy-trinity
25 Bible Verses About The Trinity
https://www.biblestudytools.com/topical-verses/bible-verses-about-the-trinity/
100 Bible Verses about "The Trinity."
https://www.openbible.info/topics/the_trinity
Matthew 28:19
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
John 10:30
I and the Father are one.”
2 Corinthians 13:14
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.
Matthew 3:16-17
And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.”
1 Corinthians 8:6
Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
1 Peter 1:2
According to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.
John 14:26
But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.
John 14:16-17 E
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.
Genesis 1:26
Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
John 1:1-51
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.
All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men.
The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. ...
John 1:14
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Colossians 2:9
For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,
1 John 5:7-8
For there are three that testify: the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree.
John 15:26
“But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me.
Ephesians 4:4-6
There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call— one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
Philippians 2:5-8
Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Colossians 1:15-17
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
John 10:30-36
I and the Father are one.” The Jews picked up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?”
The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.”
Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? ...
Luke 3:21-22
Now when all the people were baptized, and when Jesus also had been baptized and was praying, the heavens were opened, and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form, like a dove; and a voice came from heaven, “You are my beloved Son; with you I am well pleased.”
Acts 5:3-4
But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back for yourself part of the proceeds of the land?
While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal?
Why is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.”
Genesis 3:22
Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever—”
2 Corinthians 3:17
Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
2 Corinthians 1:21-22
And it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us, and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Revelation 22:13
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”
John 14:9-11
Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip?
Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me?
The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works.
Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves.
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Luke 1:35
And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.
John 14:16
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever,
Matthew 1:23
“Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel” (which means, God with us).
1 John 5:7
For there are three that testify:
Genesis 11:7
Come, let us go down and there confuse their language, so that they may not understand one another's speech.”
Jude 1:20-21
But you, beloved, building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ that leads to eternal life.
1 Corinthians 2:10-11
These things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
Matthew 3:13-17
Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to John, to be baptized by him. John would have prevented him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?”
But Jesus answered him, “Let it be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he consented.
And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.”
Isaiah 48:16
Draw near to me, hear this: from the beginning I have not spoken in secret, from the time it came to be I have been there.” And now the Lord God has sent me, and his Spirit.
Isaiah 44:6
Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god.
Hebrews 9:14
How much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.
1 Corinthians 12:4-6
Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone.
John 17:22
The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one,
John 1:3
All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Deuteronomy 6:4
“Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
mwdegutis wrote:
Will you be so kind to point me to the verses in the Bible where it specifically mentions, as in uses the word, Purgatory because I can't seem to find it in anywhere in my Bible.
Will you be so kind to point me to the verses in the Bible where it specifically mentions, as in uses the word, Purgatory because I can't seem to find it in anywhere in my Bible.
Nov 28, 2018 06:22:58 #
After that VERY long diatribe you STILL didn't answer my honest question. Will you please quote book, chapter, and verse where Purgatory shows up in the Bible?
You used the weak excuse that sola scriptura isn't in the Bible so it isn't true. Why shouldn't Purgatory apply the same way?
You used the weak excuse that sola scriptura isn't in the Bible so it isn't true. Why shouldn't Purgatory apply the same way?
Nov 28, 2018 10:20:14 #
mwdegutis,
Shame, Shame . . . and more Shame on you for playing the sola scriptura defensive Protestant game.
You're fooling no one on the OPP Religious forum, with you're antics.
You already knew the word Purgatory cant be found in the Bible.
And you are not reading the Biblical; the strong biblical verses I provided.
mwdegutis, Did you read the article ? . . . Did you read the factual scriptural Biblical replies referencing Purgatory ?
And you can deduce one plus, plus one = 2
Your a smart guy, and still can't read biblical verses, comprehend and figure out the answer to Purgatory ?
mwdegutis, either there is another name for it. And it's not the; Underworld, Hell, Abyss, Hades, Sheol or "Bosom of Abrahamm" the righteous dead Gehenna.
I like the Catholic term Purgatory, it fits, a refinement area and cleansing of sin, before one enters into Heaven.
These scriptural references are not weak, they are very exact as to the Jewish concept Sheol or Gehenna.
This is reflected in the New Testament and the Old Testament bible where Hades is both the underworld of the dead and the personification of the evil it represents.
So did Jesus Descend to Hell, Sheol, or Paradise After His Death ?
http://www.ncregister.com/blog/darmstrong/did-jesus-descend-to-hell-sheol-or-paradise-after-his-death
The "Bosom of Abraham" refers to the place of comfort in the Biblical Sheol (or Hades in the Greek Septuagint version of the Hebrew scriptures from around 200 BC, and therefore so described in the New Testament) where the righteous dead await Judgment Day. e.g. Purgatory.
This is why it says:
“When he ascended on high, he took many captives and gave gifts to his people.”
(What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions ?
He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)
Ephesians 4:8-10
In the Septuagint, or Greek version of the Hebrew Bible, the word represents both the original unfinished creation (Genesis 1:2) and the Hebrew tehom ("a surging water-deep"), which is used also in apocalyptic and kabbalistic literature and in the New Testament for hell; the place of punishment.
That means that the Bible understanding and biblical formation about Purgatory, is both found in the New Testament and Old Testament passages actually prove's the Catholic Church teaching of the word Purgatory.
Just like the word Trinity cant be found I'm the bible.
And yet, you didn't answer my question about the word "Trinity" is not found in the Bible also.
I'm calling you for being evasive and being underhanded in the conversation and discourse.
The biblical evidence that proves is over whelming that Sola Scriptura cant be found ib the Bible.
The Death of Jesus:
When Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, He yielded up His spirit.
At that moment the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom.
The earth quaked and the rocks were split.
The tombs broke open, and the bodies of many saints who had fallen asleep were raised. . . . It is Purgatory where they the Saints were residing.
Matthew 27:50-52
Shame, Shame . . . and more Shame on you for playing the sola scriptura defensive Protestant game.
You're fooling no one on the OPP Religious forum, with you're antics.
You already knew the word Purgatory cant be found in the Bible.
And you are not reading the Biblical; the strong biblical verses I provided.
mwdegutis, Did you read the article ? . . . Did you read the factual scriptural Biblical replies referencing Purgatory ?
And you can deduce one plus, plus one = 2
Your a smart guy, and still can't read biblical verses, comprehend and figure out the answer to Purgatory ?
mwdegutis, either there is another name for it. And it's not the; Underworld, Hell, Abyss, Hades, Sheol or "Bosom of Abrahamm" the righteous dead Gehenna.
I like the Catholic term Purgatory, it fits, a refinement area and cleansing of sin, before one enters into Heaven.
These scriptural references are not weak, they are very exact as to the Jewish concept Sheol or Gehenna.
This is reflected in the New Testament and the Old Testament bible where Hades is both the underworld of the dead and the personification of the evil it represents.
So did Jesus Descend to Hell, Sheol, or Paradise After His Death ?
http://www.ncregister.com/blog/darmstrong/did-jesus-descend-to-hell-sheol-or-paradise-after-his-death
The "Bosom of Abraham" refers to the place of comfort in the Biblical Sheol (or Hades in the Greek Septuagint version of the Hebrew scriptures from around 200 BC, and therefore so described in the New Testament) where the righteous dead await Judgment Day. e.g. Purgatory.
This is why it says:
“When he ascended on high, he took many captives and gave gifts to his people.”
(What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions ?
He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)
Ephesians 4:8-10
In the Septuagint, or Greek version of the Hebrew Bible, the word represents both the original unfinished creation (Genesis 1:2) and the Hebrew tehom ("a surging water-deep"), which is used also in apocalyptic and kabbalistic literature and in the New Testament for hell; the place of punishment.
That means that the Bible understanding and biblical formation about Purgatory, is both found in the New Testament and Old Testament passages actually prove's the Catholic Church teaching of the word Purgatory.
Just like the word Trinity cant be found I'm the bible.
And yet, you didn't answer my question about the word "Trinity" is not found in the Bible also.
I'm calling you for being evasive and being underhanded in the conversation and discourse.
The biblical evidence that proves is over whelming that Sola Scriptura cant be found ib the Bible.
The Death of Jesus:
When Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, He yielded up His spirit.
At that moment the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom.
The earth quaked and the rocks were split.
The tombs broke open, and the bodies of many saints who had fallen asleep were raised. . . . It is Purgatory where they the Saints were residing.
Matthew 27:50-52
mwdegutis wrote:
1. After that VERY long diatribe you STILL didn't answer my honest question.
2. Will you please quote book, chapter, and verse where Purgatory shows up in the Bible?
3. You used the weak excuse that sola scriptura isn't in the Bible so it isn't true.
4. Why shouldn't Purgatory apply the same way?
1. After that VERY long diatribe you STILL didn't answer my honest question.
2. Will you please quote book, chapter, and verse where Purgatory shows up in the Bible?
3. You used the weak excuse that sola scriptura isn't in the Bible so it isn't true.
4. Why shouldn't Purgatory apply the same way?
Nov 28, 2018 10:43:47 #
Doc110 wrote:
mwdegutis, br br Shame, Shame . . . and more Sham... (show quote)
Your have claimed that sola scriptura isn't in the Bible therefore it is untrue. Using your logic I can say the same thing about Purgatory.
Nov 28, 2018 11:04:09 #
04/17/2017 Did Jesus Descend to Hell, Sheol, or Paradise After His Death?
Dave Armstrong
http://m.ncregister.com/blog/darmstrong/did-jesus-descend-to-hell-sheol-or-paradise-after-his-death
Jesus descended to, and led captives from, Sheol
Blessed John Henry Cardinal Newman (during His Anglican days) commented :
Our Savior, as we suppose, did not go to the abyss assigned to the fallen angels, but to those mysterious mansions where the souls of all men await the judgment.
That He went to the abode of blessed spirits is evident, from His words addressed to the robber on the cross, when He also called it Paradise; that He went to some other place besides Paradise may be conjectured from St. Peter’s saying, ‘He went and preached to the spirits in prison, who had once been disobedient.’
1 Pet. 3:19-20
The circumstances, then, that these two abodes of disembodied good and bad, are called by one name, Hades . . . seems clearly to show that Paradise is not the same as Heaven, but a resting-place at the foot of it.
Let it be further remarked, that Samuel, when brought from the dead, in the witch’s cavern, said, ‘Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up?’
1 Sam. 28:15
Words which would seem quite inconsistent with his being then already in Heaven.
(Sermon: “The Intermediate State,” 1836; my italics)
I utilized this passage in my book, A Biblical Defense of Catholicism, and received a rather colorful and animated letter from an anti-Catholic critic:
You quote Cardinal Newman with approval, referring to Paradise as a temporary abode of the dead, while they await judgment, but not Heaven.
That is a disgusting jesuitical trick.
Your apostasy has turned you into a vile and underhanded man.
I hope your popish rewards are worth it.
Be that as it may, I shall further explain my reasoning. Paradise can certainly be used as meaning heaven.
The online Dictionary.com (“Paradise”) states:
noun
1. heaven, as the final abode of the righteous.
2. an intermediate place for the departed souls of the
righteous awaiting resurrection.
3. (often initial capital letter) Eden.
(def 1)
Merriam-Webster online provides a very similar definition.
When multiple meanings of words exist, then context is supremely important to determine the meaning.
The New Bible Dictionary (edited by J. D. Douglas, Eerdmans Pub. Co., 1962, “Paradise”: 934-935), a very reputable Protestant reference work, states:
In Lk. 23:43
The word ‘paradise’ is used by Jesus for the place where souls go immediately after death, cf. the concealed paradise in later Jewish thought.
The same idea is also present in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus.
Lk. 16:19-31
The same article cites the other two instances in the New Testament (2 Cor 12:2-4 and Rev 2:7) as referring to “heaven.”
Let’s look at these three passages:
Luke 23:42-43
And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”
And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”
2 Corinthians 12:2-3
I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven — whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows.
And I know that this man was caught up into Paradise — whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows —
Revelation 2:7
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
To him who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.
Jesus didn’t ascend to heaven until some forty days (Acts 1:1-11) after His Resurrection, which was on a different day than His death.
Therefore, He couldn’t be referring to heaven on the cross (Lk 23:42-43), in talking to the thief next to him.
But in 2 Corinthians, note how St. Paul uses paradise (Gk: paradeisos) and third heaven interchangeably.
It’s a different meaning than in.
Luke 23:43.
Likewise, paradise in Revelation 2:7 is heaven, since we know by Revelation 22:2, 14, 19 that the “tree of life” is located in heaven.
Other lexicons agree. Kittel notes these different meanings, etc.
In this regard, another passage is directly related to 1 Peter 3:19-20: mentioned by Cardinal Newman:
Ephesians 4:8-10
Therefore it is said, “When he ascended on high he led a host of captives, and he gave gifts to men.”
(In saying, “He ascended,” what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower parts of the earth?
He who descended is he who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.)
With this elaboration of the word paradise in Scripture, it becomes quite clear where Jesus went after His death.
It was Sheol: the Hebrew word for the netherworld, or abode of the dead (Greek: Hades).
The “good” part of Sheol (Lk 16:19-31) is also called “paradise.”
The only confusion remaining is the reference in the Apostles’ Creed: “He descended into Hell.”
The word hell actually has a wide latitude in theological usage.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church elaborates:
633
Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, “hell” – Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek - because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God.
Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the Redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into “Abraham's bosom” . . .
Hades - Sheol is distinct from the biblical Greek place, gehenna, which refers to “’the unquenchable fire’ reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe.”
CCC 1034
Accordingly, the 1910 Catholic Encyclopedia (“Hell”) states that “Theologians distinguish four meanings”:
a. Everlasting fire and punishment (Gehenna),
b. Limbo,
c. Limbo of the fathers (limbus patrum), or Hades-Sheol, and
d. purgatory.
Jesus descended to, and led captives from Sheol, not Gehenna.; also known as “paradise.”
Dave Armstrong
http://m.ncregister.com/blog/darmstrong/did-jesus-descend-to-hell-sheol-or-paradise-after-his-death
Jesus descended to, and led captives from, Sheol
Blessed John Henry Cardinal Newman (during His Anglican days) commented :
Our Savior, as we suppose, did not go to the abyss assigned to the fallen angels, but to those mysterious mansions where the souls of all men await the judgment.
That He went to the abode of blessed spirits is evident, from His words addressed to the robber on the cross, when He also called it Paradise; that He went to some other place besides Paradise may be conjectured from St. Peter’s saying, ‘He went and preached to the spirits in prison, who had once been disobedient.’
1 Pet. 3:19-20
The circumstances, then, that these two abodes of disembodied good and bad, are called by one name, Hades . . . seems clearly to show that Paradise is not the same as Heaven, but a resting-place at the foot of it.
Let it be further remarked, that Samuel, when brought from the dead, in the witch’s cavern, said, ‘Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up?’
1 Sam. 28:15
Words which would seem quite inconsistent with his being then already in Heaven.
(Sermon: “The Intermediate State,” 1836; my italics)
I utilized this passage in my book, A Biblical Defense of Catholicism, and received a rather colorful and animated letter from an anti-Catholic critic:
You quote Cardinal Newman with approval, referring to Paradise as a temporary abode of the dead, while they await judgment, but not Heaven.
That is a disgusting jesuitical trick.
Your apostasy has turned you into a vile and underhanded man.
I hope your popish rewards are worth it.
Be that as it may, I shall further explain my reasoning. Paradise can certainly be used as meaning heaven.
The online Dictionary.com (“Paradise”) states:
noun
1. heaven, as the final abode of the righteous.
2. an intermediate place for the departed souls of the
righteous awaiting resurrection.
3. (often initial capital letter) Eden.
(def 1)
Merriam-Webster online provides a very similar definition.
When multiple meanings of words exist, then context is supremely important to determine the meaning.
The New Bible Dictionary (edited by J. D. Douglas, Eerdmans Pub. Co., 1962, “Paradise”: 934-935), a very reputable Protestant reference work, states:
In Lk. 23:43
The word ‘paradise’ is used by Jesus for the place where souls go immediately after death, cf. the concealed paradise in later Jewish thought.
The same idea is also present in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus.
Lk. 16:19-31
The same article cites the other two instances in the New Testament (2 Cor 12:2-4 and Rev 2:7) as referring to “heaven.”
Let’s look at these three passages:
Luke 23:42-43
And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”
And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”
2 Corinthians 12:2-3
I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven — whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows.
And I know that this man was caught up into Paradise — whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows —
Revelation 2:7
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
To him who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.
Jesus didn’t ascend to heaven until some forty days (Acts 1:1-11) after His Resurrection, which was on a different day than His death.
Therefore, He couldn’t be referring to heaven on the cross (Lk 23:42-43), in talking to the thief next to him.
But in 2 Corinthians, note how St. Paul uses paradise (Gk: paradeisos) and third heaven interchangeably.
It’s a different meaning than in.
Luke 23:43.
Likewise, paradise in Revelation 2:7 is heaven, since we know by Revelation 22:2, 14, 19 that the “tree of life” is located in heaven.
Other lexicons agree. Kittel notes these different meanings, etc.
In this regard, another passage is directly related to 1 Peter 3:19-20: mentioned by Cardinal Newman:
Ephesians 4:8-10
Therefore it is said, “When he ascended on high he led a host of captives, and he gave gifts to men.”
(In saying, “He ascended,” what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower parts of the earth?
He who descended is he who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.)
With this elaboration of the word paradise in Scripture, it becomes quite clear where Jesus went after His death.
It was Sheol: the Hebrew word for the netherworld, or abode of the dead (Greek: Hades).
The “good” part of Sheol (Lk 16:19-31) is also called “paradise.”
The only confusion remaining is the reference in the Apostles’ Creed: “He descended into Hell.”
The word hell actually has a wide latitude in theological usage.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church elaborates:
633
Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, “hell” – Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek - because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God.
Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the Redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into “Abraham's bosom” . . .
Hades - Sheol is distinct from the biblical Greek place, gehenna, which refers to “’the unquenchable fire’ reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe.”
CCC 1034
Accordingly, the 1910 Catholic Encyclopedia (“Hell”) states that “Theologians distinguish four meanings”:
a. Everlasting fire and punishment (Gehenna),
b. Limbo,
c. Limbo of the fathers (limbus patrum), or Hades-Sheol, and
d. purgatory.
Jesus descended to, and led captives from Sheol, not Gehenna.; also known as “paradise.”
Nov 28, 2018 11:16:11 #
TexaCan
Loc: Homeward Bound!
Doc110 wrote:
mwdegutis, br br Shame, Shame . . . and more Sham... (show quote)
You’re is an abbreviation for you are!
Nov 28, 2018 11:21:40 #
Here you go Doc -
The false hope of purgatory with scriptural references rather than inferences.
https://www.onepoliticalplaza.com/t-146569-1.html
The false hope of purgatory with scriptural references rather than inferences.
https://www.onepoliticalplaza.com/t-146569-1.html
Nov 28, 2018 11:21:53 #
11/25/2018 The Anatomy of Doubt
Dale Ahlquist
November 25, 2018 Dale Ahlquist Features, Opinion 6
https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2018/11/25/the-anatomy-of-doubt/
Opinion 6
https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2018/11/25/the-anatomy-of-doubt/#mh-comments
We were already living in an age of doubt even before we suffered these blows to our faith.
The test of faith is to overcome our doubts in time of great trial.
“There is the prevalence of a sort of casual and even conversational skepticism, making even the idle thoughts of an idle fellow busy in the interests of doubt and despair.
'I mean that a man, without thinking at all, will throw off some flippant phrase which is always (by a strange fatality) a sort of feeble revolt against all traditional truth.”
Thus wrote G.K. Chesterton in 1932.
(Though technically, he spelled skepticism “scepticism,” as the English tend to do.)
It is a passage speaks for itself.
And yet I’m going to speak about it! I’m going to expand it and expound on it and explain it so that I can make it say even more emphatically what it already says.
1. “A sort of casual and even conversational skepticism.”
It is hard to have a deep conversation these days.
What we lack in depth, we make up for in shallowness.
But it is getting increasingly difficult to talk about anything.
There is the fear that it might lead to an argument.
Even a discussion about sports might spark violence.
And who would have thought that talking about the weather would become political?
And politics? Who wants to get into that?
The topic is so utterly divisive that it is avoided in polite company—or in company that wishes to remain polite.
If someone wants to talk about politics, they do it while they’re alone—to a computer screen—like so many activities that once used to involve personal human contact.
And yet when it comes to religion, it seems that people have no reluctance to toss off critical comments in passing conversation without fear of being challenged, hurling verbal mud-balls and rocks with confident ease.
How often is a believer expected to sit silently and listen to someone say something that implies there is no God, that all religion is a sham, that faith is a delusion, that every church is a monument to meaningless?
There is no opportunity to refute an actual claim; we have simply had the smoke of skepticism blown in our face.
When it comes to Catholicism, the doubts may be more explicit. How often does a Catholic have to hear that the Church is irrelevant and corrupt and doomed because it hates women and gays, and every priest is probably a pervert?
The comments are made casually. Casual means not formal, or, in other words:
2. “Idle thoughts”
There is nothing systematic about the skepticism tossed off by the casual doubter.
He has concluded that the faith is wrong, however, he cannot base his ideas on any formal and active thought process, but rather “idle thoughts.”
And to what end?
3. “Busy in the interests of doubt and despair.”
Doubt does not promote truth.
It only attacks the truth.
It is a negation.
There is nothing edifying about it.
It is energy expended toward nothing.
It is hopeless.
Doubt and despair go together.
Despair is not a good thing, so why should doubt, its companion, be considered a good thing?
Why promote doubt?
4. “Without thinking”
Idle thoughts are different from actual thinking because, as Chesterton says, “Thinking means connecting things.”
Idle thoughts are disconnected.
Doubts are random.
There is no thinking when there is no philosophical foundation producing the ideas.
It is not thinking when it is not thought-out.
Most doubts are not only not thought out, they have not even been thought on.
They are uttered “without thinking.”
5. “Flippant”
To be flippant is to be unreflective, trite.
It means not assigning the proper gravity to a heavy subject, to make a joke that is not funny.
A joke is not funny when it misses the mark.
It does not connect.
It buzzes but it does not bite.
And when we have to deal with many flippant comments, we are dealing with a swarm.
Chesterton says, “One of the chief nuisances of our time is a swarm of little things, in the form of little thoughts…
The buzz of dull flippancy… the omnipresence of the insignificant.”
6. “always”
“Always” is used here as a general term, not as an absolute.
It means in most cases, most of the time, with most people.
The fact is, we live in a secular society that is generally anti-Catholic.
We know where these thoughtless flippant remarks are going.
They are going to go against the Church.
We can count on it.
7. A feeble revolt against all traditional truth.”
And this sums it up.
The comments against Catholic doctrine, Catholic practices, Catholic priests are revolts against things that have been in place for over two thousand years.
Chesterton says we always hear the arguments for change, but we never hear an argument for tradition.
The casual critic and his friends who go against tradition regard their revolt as something brave and bold.
But it is feeble.
Doubt is feeble.
Doubt does not build anything.
It only destroys.
The Agnostic pretends to be impartial, but no one is impartial.
Everyone takes a part, one way or the other.
The agnostic’s impartiality keeps him outside the Church, but he is not indifferent to the Church.
He is against the Church.
He might argue that a judge must be impartial.
But even a judge ends up taking sides.
That’s what making a judgment is.
A judge cannot remain an agnostic.
As Chesterton says wryly, “Even men who know nothing cannot settle everything.”
And what of the doubters who leave the Church?
In the wake of new revelations of the extent of the sexual abuse scandal plaguing our Church, we have all heard stories of people who have walked away.
I do not doubt their pain and disappointment.
But I wonder about their doubt.
That is, if a scandal causes them to doubt their faith, what was their faith?
How does a hypocrite prove that something is false?
Counterfeit money does not mean there is no real money.
Fake ghosts do not prove there are no real ghosts.
Doubt does not prove anything.
We were already living in an age of doubt even before we suffered these blows to our faith.
The test of faith is to overcome our doubts in time of great trial.
Most people who leave the Church, leave in a bad mood.
Chesterton points out that faith is something that survives a mood.
He says the same thing, by the way, about marriage.
It is easy to fall.
It is hard to stand.
It does not take any courage to leave the Catholic Church.
It takes courage to join it.
It does not take any courage to attack the Catholic Church.
It takes courage to defend it when it is attacked.
It does take any courage to doubt.
It takes courage to believe.
Dale Ahlquist
November 25, 2018 Dale Ahlquist Features, Opinion 6
https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2018/11/25/the-anatomy-of-doubt/
Opinion 6
https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2018/11/25/the-anatomy-of-doubt/#mh-comments
We were already living in an age of doubt even before we suffered these blows to our faith.
The test of faith is to overcome our doubts in time of great trial.
“There is the prevalence of a sort of casual and even conversational skepticism, making even the idle thoughts of an idle fellow busy in the interests of doubt and despair.
'I mean that a man, without thinking at all, will throw off some flippant phrase which is always (by a strange fatality) a sort of feeble revolt against all traditional truth.”
Thus wrote G.K. Chesterton in 1932.
(Though technically, he spelled skepticism “scepticism,” as the English tend to do.)
It is a passage speaks for itself.
And yet I’m going to speak about it! I’m going to expand it and expound on it and explain it so that I can make it say even more emphatically what it already says.
1. “A sort of casual and even conversational skepticism.”
It is hard to have a deep conversation these days.
What we lack in depth, we make up for in shallowness.
But it is getting increasingly difficult to talk about anything.
There is the fear that it might lead to an argument.
Even a discussion about sports might spark violence.
And who would have thought that talking about the weather would become political?
And politics? Who wants to get into that?
The topic is so utterly divisive that it is avoided in polite company—or in company that wishes to remain polite.
If someone wants to talk about politics, they do it while they’re alone—to a computer screen—like so many activities that once used to involve personal human contact.
And yet when it comes to religion, it seems that people have no reluctance to toss off critical comments in passing conversation without fear of being challenged, hurling verbal mud-balls and rocks with confident ease.
How often is a believer expected to sit silently and listen to someone say something that implies there is no God, that all religion is a sham, that faith is a delusion, that every church is a monument to meaningless?
There is no opportunity to refute an actual claim; we have simply had the smoke of skepticism blown in our face.
When it comes to Catholicism, the doubts may be more explicit. How often does a Catholic have to hear that the Church is irrelevant and corrupt and doomed because it hates women and gays, and every priest is probably a pervert?
The comments are made casually. Casual means not formal, or, in other words:
2. “Idle thoughts”
There is nothing systematic about the skepticism tossed off by the casual doubter.
He has concluded that the faith is wrong, however, he cannot base his ideas on any formal and active thought process, but rather “idle thoughts.”
And to what end?
3. “Busy in the interests of doubt and despair.”
Doubt does not promote truth.
It only attacks the truth.
It is a negation.
There is nothing edifying about it.
It is energy expended toward nothing.
It is hopeless.
Doubt and despair go together.
Despair is not a good thing, so why should doubt, its companion, be considered a good thing?
Why promote doubt?
4. “Without thinking”
Idle thoughts are different from actual thinking because, as Chesterton says, “Thinking means connecting things.”
Idle thoughts are disconnected.
Doubts are random.
There is no thinking when there is no philosophical foundation producing the ideas.
It is not thinking when it is not thought-out.
Most doubts are not only not thought out, they have not even been thought on.
They are uttered “without thinking.”
5. “Flippant”
To be flippant is to be unreflective, trite.
It means not assigning the proper gravity to a heavy subject, to make a joke that is not funny.
A joke is not funny when it misses the mark.
It does not connect.
It buzzes but it does not bite.
And when we have to deal with many flippant comments, we are dealing with a swarm.
Chesterton says, “One of the chief nuisances of our time is a swarm of little things, in the form of little thoughts…
The buzz of dull flippancy… the omnipresence of the insignificant.”
6. “always”
“Always” is used here as a general term, not as an absolute.
It means in most cases, most of the time, with most people.
The fact is, we live in a secular society that is generally anti-Catholic.
We know where these thoughtless flippant remarks are going.
They are going to go against the Church.
We can count on it.
7. A feeble revolt against all traditional truth.”
And this sums it up.
The comments against Catholic doctrine, Catholic practices, Catholic priests are revolts against things that have been in place for over two thousand years.
Chesterton says we always hear the arguments for change, but we never hear an argument for tradition.
The casual critic and his friends who go against tradition regard their revolt as something brave and bold.
But it is feeble.
Doubt is feeble.
Doubt does not build anything.
It only destroys.
The Agnostic pretends to be impartial, but no one is impartial.
Everyone takes a part, one way or the other.
The agnostic’s impartiality keeps him outside the Church, but he is not indifferent to the Church.
He is against the Church.
He might argue that a judge must be impartial.
But even a judge ends up taking sides.
That’s what making a judgment is.
A judge cannot remain an agnostic.
As Chesterton says wryly, “Even men who know nothing cannot settle everything.”
And what of the doubters who leave the Church?
In the wake of new revelations of the extent of the sexual abuse scandal plaguing our Church, we have all heard stories of people who have walked away.
I do not doubt their pain and disappointment.
But I wonder about their doubt.
That is, if a scandal causes them to doubt their faith, what was their faith?
How does a hypocrite prove that something is false?
Counterfeit money does not mean there is no real money.
Fake ghosts do not prove there are no real ghosts.
Doubt does not prove anything.
We were already living in an age of doubt even before we suffered these blows to our faith.
The test of faith is to overcome our doubts in time of great trial.
Most people who leave the Church, leave in a bad mood.
Chesterton points out that faith is something that survives a mood.
He says the same thing, by the way, about marriage.
It is easy to fall.
It is hard to stand.
It does not take any courage to leave the Catholic Church.
It takes courage to join it.
It does not take any courage to attack the Catholic Church.
It takes courage to defend it when it is attacked.
It does take any courage to doubt.
It takes courage to believe.
Nov 28, 2018 11:24:01 #
You still won't answer the question. If there were a purgatory it would be very simple to show explicit scriptural references. God would not be vague on something so important.
Nov 28, 2018 11:27:49 #
Rose42,
Rose you prove nothing but doubt . . .
Respond with facts, Facts, FACTs, no Supposition's, Innuendo's, Exaggeration's of your own Personal Emotional Belief's, Hypocritical Truth's, Empty Rhetoric devoid of Real Factual Substance and full of Regurgitated Dendrite Compost Opinions
The Anatomy of Doubt
Dale Ahlquist
https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2018/11/25/the-anatomy-of-doubt/
Authority is attributed to God the Father; it is resident in his very nature. Authority alludes to Deity’s right to command and enforce obedience.
Christ “rebuked” both the wind and the sea, and immediately the wind ceased, and there was a “great calm” upon the water.
Matthew 8:23; Mark 4:35; Luke. 8:22
Christ thus spoke to the tree saying, “Be without fruit forever more.” Instantly the tree withered away, beginning from the roots.
Mark 11:12-14
There are no fewer than nineteen specific cases of miraculous healing performed by Jesus in the three and one half years of his ministry.
The healing miracles of Jesus involved of a wide variety of ailments, e.g., leprosy (Matthew 8:2), congenital blindness (John 9:1), restoration of a severed ear Luke 22:50-51 deafness and impediment of speech.
Mark 7:32
“That you may know that the Son of man possesses authority on earth to forgive sins (he said to the sick of palsy), I say to you, Arise, take up your bed, and go to your house.”
Mark 2:10
There were three cases during Christ’s ministry when he raised people from the dead—the daughter of Jairus (Mt. 9:18-26; Mk. 5:21-43), a widow’s son (Lk. 7:11-15), and Lazarus of Bethany (Jn. 11:43-44).
In addition, there is the subtle suggestion that in some way, the Lord was instrumental as well in the resurrection of his own body.
John 2:19
Demons (not “devils” KJV) were evil spirits (Mt. 12:43-45) under the control of Satan.
These were permitted to inhabit the bodies of some people during the earthly days of Christ and his apostles.
Almost certainly this was for the purpose of allowing the Savior and his men the opportunity of demonstrating the superiority of Christ’s authority over Satan.
Matthew 12:28-29; Luke 10:17-18; 1 John 4:4
The New Testament clearly indicates that demons were under the ultimate control of the Savior. Demons tormented a man who lived in the country of the Gerasenes.
When Christ expelled the evil spirits from the unfortunate man, the demons asked the Lord’s permission to enter a herd of swine nearby.
Even they acknowledged the Messiah’s authority.
Mark 5:6-7
“The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that cause stumbling, and them that do iniquity.”
Matthew 13:41
One of the most prominent errors in the community of “Christendom,” is a failure to properly distinguish between the purpose of the Old Testament and that of the New Testament. Many wander back and forth between the Old and New Testaments, without a clue as to the difference between the “first” and “second” of these covenants.
Hebrew 8:7; 10:9
The Authority of Jesus:
28 When Jesus had finished saying these things, the crowds were astonished at His teaching,
29 because He taught as one who had authority, and not as their scribes.
Matthew 7:28-29
Jesus, taught as one who had authority
22 The people were astonished at His teaching, because He taught as one who had authority, and not as the scribes.
Mark 1:22
Jesus's message had authority
32 They were astonished at His teaching, because His message had authority.
Luke 4:32
Jesus's words were never spoken like this man!
"Never has anyone spoken like this man!" the officers answered.
John 7:46
"If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead."
Luke 16:31
And again of the Books of Moses, He said: "If you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words ?"
John 5:47
Think about what Jesus said at the beginning of the Sermon on the Mount:
"Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me.
Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you,"
Matthew 5:11-12
"Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.
Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.
For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven;
But whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
Matthew 5:16-19
"You will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth."
Acts 1:8
"The one who listens to you listens to Me, and the one who rejects you rejects Me; and he who rejects Me rejects the One who sent Me."
Luke 10:16
On Jesus' own authority over all heaven and earth, He sent the Apostles to teach all that He had commanded them.
Matthew 28:18-20
He regarded the Old Testament writings as the very words of God that were still authoritative over His hearers. Note the particularly striking phrase in quoting from Exodus.
30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.
31 But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you,
Matthew 22:30-31
And Paul was chosen by the risen Christ Himself as His instrument to carry His name to the nations.
Acts 9:15
They wrote explicitly as the commissioned servants of Jesus Christ.
Romans 1:1, James 1:1, 2 Peter 1:1, Jude 1
The apostle Paul most emphatically declared: “...the things I write unto you ... they are the commandment of the Lord.”
1 Corinthians 14:37
He frequently undergirded his teaching with the affirmation he was speaking on behalf of Christ.
1 Thes. 4:2, 15; 2 Thes. 3:6, 12
He declared that his inspired teaching was backed by the same authority as that of his Lord.
1 Corinthians 7:10,12
We absolutely must recognize that the authority of the Son of God is resident in the inspired instruction of the New Testament.
In addition to the Lord’s creative capacity, he is involved in sustaining the present order of the created universe.
Paul contended that it is by the authority of Christ that “all things hold together.”
Colossians 1:17
Further, Jesus, in connection with his creation role, is said to “uphold all things by his powerful word.”
Hebrews 1:3
Were it not for the sustaining authority of the Son of God, our universe would come apart at the seams!
His exercise of authority, therefore, was subservient to, and consistent with, that of his Father’s.
John 5:30; 6:38
This is what the Lord had in mind when he spoke of the “authority” that was “given to” him by the Father.
John 17:2
His divine authority “in the days of his flesh” (Heb. 5:7) is important to understand as we engage this study. From this vantage point, let us reflect upon various uses of his authority as “the Son of man.”
It is, therefore, true what Paul wrote to Timothy:
"All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work."
2 Timothy 3:16-17
Every rational, sincere soul should joyfully enter Christ’s kingdom by means of the new birth process (Jn. 3:3-5), and happily and fervently serve him as king for as long as they live.
We are bound by all that God has revealed from Genesis to Revelation.
May we be reverent students and obedient servants of the whole counsel of God.
Rose you prove nothing but doubt . . .
Respond with facts, Facts, FACTs, no Supposition's, Innuendo's, Exaggeration's of your own Personal Emotional Belief's, Hypocritical Truth's, Empty Rhetoric devoid of Real Factual Substance and full of Regurgitated Dendrite Compost Opinions
The Anatomy of Doubt
Dale Ahlquist
https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2018/11/25/the-anatomy-of-doubt/
Authority is attributed to God the Father; it is resident in his very nature. Authority alludes to Deity’s right to command and enforce obedience.
Christ “rebuked” both the wind and the sea, and immediately the wind ceased, and there was a “great calm” upon the water.
Matthew 8:23; Mark 4:35; Luke. 8:22
Christ thus spoke to the tree saying, “Be without fruit forever more.” Instantly the tree withered away, beginning from the roots.
Mark 11:12-14
There are no fewer than nineteen specific cases of miraculous healing performed by Jesus in the three and one half years of his ministry.
The healing miracles of Jesus involved of a wide variety of ailments, e.g., leprosy (Matthew 8:2), congenital blindness (John 9:1), restoration of a severed ear Luke 22:50-51 deafness and impediment of speech.
Mark 7:32
“That you may know that the Son of man possesses authority on earth to forgive sins (he said to the sick of palsy), I say to you, Arise, take up your bed, and go to your house.”
Mark 2:10
There were three cases during Christ’s ministry when he raised people from the dead—the daughter of Jairus (Mt. 9:18-26; Mk. 5:21-43), a widow’s son (Lk. 7:11-15), and Lazarus of Bethany (Jn. 11:43-44).
In addition, there is the subtle suggestion that in some way, the Lord was instrumental as well in the resurrection of his own body.
John 2:19
Demons (not “devils” KJV) were evil spirits (Mt. 12:43-45) under the control of Satan.
These were permitted to inhabit the bodies of some people during the earthly days of Christ and his apostles.
Almost certainly this was for the purpose of allowing the Savior and his men the opportunity of demonstrating the superiority of Christ’s authority over Satan.
Matthew 12:28-29; Luke 10:17-18; 1 John 4:4
The New Testament clearly indicates that demons were under the ultimate control of the Savior. Demons tormented a man who lived in the country of the Gerasenes.
When Christ expelled the evil spirits from the unfortunate man, the demons asked the Lord’s permission to enter a herd of swine nearby.
Even they acknowledged the Messiah’s authority.
Mark 5:6-7
“The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that cause stumbling, and them that do iniquity.”
Matthew 13:41
One of the most prominent errors in the community of “Christendom,” is a failure to properly distinguish between the purpose of the Old Testament and that of the New Testament. Many wander back and forth between the Old and New Testaments, without a clue as to the difference between the “first” and “second” of these covenants.
Hebrew 8:7; 10:9
The Authority of Jesus:
28 When Jesus had finished saying these things, the crowds were astonished at His teaching,
29 because He taught as one who had authority, and not as their scribes.
Matthew 7:28-29
Jesus, taught as one who had authority
22 The people were astonished at His teaching, because He taught as one who had authority, and not as the scribes.
Mark 1:22
Jesus's message had authority
32 They were astonished at His teaching, because His message had authority.
Luke 4:32
Jesus's words were never spoken like this man!
"Never has anyone spoken like this man!" the officers answered.
John 7:46
"If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead."
Luke 16:31
And again of the Books of Moses, He said: "If you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words ?"
John 5:47
Think about what Jesus said at the beginning of the Sermon on the Mount:
"Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me.
Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you,"
Matthew 5:11-12
"Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.
Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.
For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven;
But whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
Matthew 5:16-19
"You will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth."
Acts 1:8
"The one who listens to you listens to Me, and the one who rejects you rejects Me; and he who rejects Me rejects the One who sent Me."
Luke 10:16
On Jesus' own authority over all heaven and earth, He sent the Apostles to teach all that He had commanded them.
Matthew 28:18-20
He regarded the Old Testament writings as the very words of God that were still authoritative over His hearers. Note the particularly striking phrase in quoting from Exodus.
30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.
31 But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you,
Matthew 22:30-31
And Paul was chosen by the risen Christ Himself as His instrument to carry His name to the nations.
Acts 9:15
They wrote explicitly as the commissioned servants of Jesus Christ.
Romans 1:1, James 1:1, 2 Peter 1:1, Jude 1
The apostle Paul most emphatically declared: “...the things I write unto you ... they are the commandment of the Lord.”
1 Corinthians 14:37
He frequently undergirded his teaching with the affirmation he was speaking on behalf of Christ.
1 Thes. 4:2, 15; 2 Thes. 3:6, 12
He declared that his inspired teaching was backed by the same authority as that of his Lord.
1 Corinthians 7:10,12
We absolutely must recognize that the authority of the Son of God is resident in the inspired instruction of the New Testament.
In addition to the Lord’s creative capacity, he is involved in sustaining the present order of the created universe.
Paul contended that it is by the authority of Christ that “all things hold together.”
Colossians 1:17
Further, Jesus, in connection with his creation role, is said to “uphold all things by his powerful word.”
Hebrews 1:3
Were it not for the sustaining authority of the Son of God, our universe would come apart at the seams!
His exercise of authority, therefore, was subservient to, and consistent with, that of his Father’s.
John 5:30; 6:38
This is what the Lord had in mind when he spoke of the “authority” that was “given to” him by the Father.
John 17:2
His divine authority “in the days of his flesh” (Heb. 5:7) is important to understand as we engage this study. From this vantage point, let us reflect upon various uses of his authority as “the Son of man.”
It is, therefore, true what Paul wrote to Timothy:
"All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work."
2 Timothy 3:16-17
Every rational, sincere soul should joyfully enter Christ’s kingdom by means of the new birth process (Jn. 3:3-5), and happily and fervently serve him as king for as long as they live.
We are bound by all that God has revealed from Genesis to Revelation.
May we be reverent students and obedient servants of the whole counsel of God.
Rose42 wrote:
Here you go Doc -
The false hope of purgatory with scriptural references rather than inferences.
Here you go Doc -
The false hope of purgatory with scriptural references rather than inferences.
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