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The false hope of purgatory
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Nov 28, 2018 09:42:31   #
Rose42
 
Let’s be clear from the outset: The Roman Catholic doctrine of purgatory is taught nowhere in Scripture. It was invented to accommodate Catholicism’s denial of justification by faith alone. And it offers false hope to millions who anticipate ample time beyond the grave—perhaps eons, if necessary—to achieve their own justification.

Scripture very clearly teaches that an absolutely perfect righteousness is necessary for entry into heaven. Jesus said, “I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 5:20). He then added, “Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect” (Matthew 5:48)—thus setting the standard as high as it can possibly be set.

The Only Way to Heaven

Later in His ministry, when the rich young ruler approached Jesus to ask how he might enter heaven, Jesus upheld this same standard of absolute perfection. He began by challenging the clear implication that the young man hoped he could attain a sufficient goodness of his own to merit heaven: “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good” (Matthew 19:17). Notice: Jesus did not disclaim that He Himself was sinlessly perfect (a common misinterpretation of this passage). He was simply pointing out plainly that the standard of perfection required to earn heaven is impossible for fallen creatures.

Because the young man was undeterred by this, however, Jesus told him that to obtain eternal life, he must have a track record of perfect obedience to the law (Matthew 19:17-22). Again and again, Jesus made the required standard of righteousness impossibly high for all who would seek to earn God’s favor on their own.

The young ruler clearly did not understand or acknowledge his own sinfulness. He assured Jesus that he had indeed kept the law from his youth up (v. 20).

Jesus subtly pointed out the young man’s covetousness (v. 21), which was a violation of the tenth commandment. From the outset of His conversation with the young man, the Lord was prodding him to confess that no one but God Himself is truly good. But the rich young ruler was unwilling to face his own sinfulness, and so he went away without salvation.

The disciples marveled at this. The young man was evidently—from a human perspective—one of the most righteous individuals they’d encountered. Notice that no one disputed his claim that he had obeyed the law. That suggests there were no overt sins in his life that anyone could point to. He seemed the best of men. So the disciples were floored when he walked away with no assurance of eternal life from Jesus. In fact, Jesus told them, “Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God” (Matthew 19:23-24).

There’s no mistaking Jesus’ point. He was setting the standard at an impossible height. He was saying that the most fastidious legal observance is not enough. The most flawless external righteousness is not enough. All the worldly advantages of wealth are of no help. Only absolute perfection is acceptable to God. Our Lord kept underscoring these truths because He wanted people to see the utter futility of trying to earn righteousness by any system of works.

The disciples got the message. They asked, “Then who can be saved?” (Matthew 19:25).

And Jesus replied, “With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible” (Matthew 19:26).

Accepted By Imputation

We know from Paul’s treatise on justification in Romans 4 that God saves believers by imputing to them the merit of Christ’s perfect righteousness—by no means because of their own righteousness. God accepts believers “in Christ.” He clothes them with the perfect righteousness of Christ. He declares them perfectly righteous because of Christ. Their sins have been imputed to Christ, who has paid the full penalty. His righteousness is now imputed to them—and through His imputed righteousness—they receive His full merit. That is what justification by faith means. The Father “made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him” (2 Corinthians 5:21).

In other words, God does not first make us perfect, then accept us on that basis. He first legally justifies us by imputing to us an alien righteousness, then perfects us by conforming us to the image of Christ. He “justifies the ungodly” (Romans 4:5).

Paul wrote, “Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ” (Romans 5:1). “Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus” (Romans 8:1). Those verses describe our justification as something already accomplished—a completed reality, not something we are striving for. Jesus Himself described justification as an immediate event when He told how the repentant publican was saved after begging God for mercy: “I tell you, this man went to his house justified” (Luke 18:14).

Scripture clearly and consistently attests to justification as a settled fact for every believer; it is not an ongoing process. We stand before God in faith right now, fully acceptable to Him because of Christ’s righteousness—not because of any doings of our own.

False Doctrine and False Hope

Roman Catholic doctrine denies all of that. Catholicism teaches that justification is an ongoing process that depends on the degree of real, personal righteousness we achieve. According to Rome, Christ’s merit imputed to us is not enough to save; we must earn more merit of our own through the sacraments and other good works. Righteousness is infused into us (rather than being imputed to us). But it is obvious that we are not perfectly righteous by any practical measure. So the righteousness we obtain by grace must be perfected by our own efforts.

According to Catholic teaching, this real, personal righteousness that resides in us is the necessary ground on which God accepts us. And our justification is not complete until we are really and completely perfect—by an inherent righteousness, not merely by a legally imputed righteousness. This actually reverses the biblical order, suggesting that we must first be perfected, and only then is our justification complete. In other words, in Roman Catholic doctrine, God does not justify the ungodly.

The Catholic view of justification poses an obvious dilemma. We know too well that even the best Christians fall far short of perfection. No one (Catholic teaching actually says almost no one) achieves absolute perfection in this life. And if our own perfection is a prerequisite for heaven, it would seem no one could enter there immediately upon dying. Any remaining imperfections would need to be worked out first.

The invention of purgatory was necessary to solve this dilemma. Deny that we are justified by faith alone, and you must devise an explanation of how we can make the transition from our imperfect state in this life to the perfect state of heaven. Purgatory is where Roman Catholics believe most people go after death to be finally purged of their remaining guilt and gain whatever merit they may be lacking to enter heaven. Catholicism teaches that this process involves intense pain and suffering.

Oddly enough, although Catholic doctrine denies that the imputed righteousness of Christ is sufficient to save sinners in this life, it does allow the imputation of righteousness from living sinners to those in purgatory. This is why masses are said for the dead. Supposedly the righteousness earned by way of the sacrament is imputed to the person in purgatory, which shortens his or her stay there.

The Catholic doctrine of purgatory offers false hope to people hoping to atone for their own sins on the other side of the grave. Rome’s warped and perverted view of justification will undoubtedly usher into eternal torment many who expected to have more time to achieve perfection.

https://www.gty.org/library/blog/B180718

Reply
Nov 28, 2018 09:54:21   #
bahmer
 
Rose42 wrote:
Let’s be clear from the outset: The Roman Catholic doctrine of purgatory is taught nowhere in Scripture. It was invented to accommodate Catholicism’s denial of justification by faith alone. And it offers false hope to millions who anticipate ample time beyond the grave—perhaps eons, if necessary—to achieve their own justification.

Scripture very clearly teaches that an absolutely perfect righteousness is necessary for entry into heaven. Jesus said, “I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 5:20). He then added, “Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect” (Matthew 5:48)—thus setting the standard as high as it can possibly be set.

The Only Way to Heaven

Later in His ministry, when the rich young ruler approached Jesus to ask how he might enter heaven, Jesus upheld this same standard of absolute perfection. He began by challenging the clear implication that the young man hoped he could attain a sufficient goodness of his own to merit heaven: “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good” (Matthew 19:17). Notice: Jesus did not disclaim that He Himself was sinlessly perfect (a common misinterpretation of this passage). He was simply pointing out plainly that the standard of perfection required to earn heaven is impossible for fallen creatures.

Because the young man was undeterred by this, however, Jesus told him that to obtain eternal life, he must have a track record of perfect obedience to the law (Matthew 19:17-22). Again and again, Jesus made the required standard of righteousness impossibly high for all who would seek to earn God’s favor on their own.

The young ruler clearly did not understand or acknowledge his own sinfulness. He assured Jesus that he had indeed kept the law from his youth up (v. 20).

Jesus subtly pointed out the young man’s covetousness (v. 21), which was a violation of the tenth commandment. From the outset of His conversation with the young man, the Lord was prodding him to confess that no one but God Himself is truly good. But the rich young ruler was unwilling to face his own sinfulness, and so he went away without salvation.

The disciples marveled at this. The young man was evidently—from a human perspective—one of the most righteous individuals they’d encountered. Notice that no one disputed his claim that he had obeyed the law. That suggests there were no overt sins in his life that anyone could point to. He seemed the best of men. So the disciples were floored when he walked away with no assurance of eternal life from Jesus. In fact, Jesus told them, “Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God” (Matthew 19:23-24).

There’s no mistaking Jesus’ point. He was setting the standard at an impossible height. He was saying that the most fastidious legal observance is not enough. The most flawless external righteousness is not enough. All the worldly advantages of wealth are of no help. Only absolute perfection is acceptable to God. Our Lord kept underscoring these truths because He wanted people to see the utter futility of trying to earn righteousness by any system of works.

The disciples got the message. They asked, “Then who can be saved?” (Matthew 19:25).

And Jesus replied, “With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible” (Matthew 19:26).

Accepted By Imputation

We know from Paul’s treatise on justification in Romans 4 that God saves believers by imputing to them the merit of Christ’s perfect righteousness—by no means because of their own righteousness. God accepts believers “in Christ.” He clothes them with the perfect righteousness of Christ. He declares them perfectly righteous because of Christ. Their sins have been imputed to Christ, who has paid the full penalty. His righteousness is now imputed to them—and through His imputed righteousness—they receive His full merit. That is what justification by faith means. The Father “made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him” (2 Corinthians 5:21).

In other words, God does not first make us perfect, then accept us on that basis. He first legally justifies us by imputing to us an alien righteousness, then perfects us by conforming us to the image of Christ. He “justifies the ungodly” (Romans 4:5).

Paul wrote, “Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ” (Romans 5:1). “Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus” (Romans 8:1). Those verses describe our justification as something already accomplished—a completed reality, not something we are striving for. Jesus Himself described justification as an immediate event when He told how the repentant publican was saved after begging God for mercy: “I tell you, this man went to his house justified” (Luke 18:14).

Scripture clearly and consistently attests to justification as a settled fact for every believer; it is not an ongoing process. We stand before God in faith right now, fully acceptable to Him because of Christ’s righteousness—not because of any doings of our own.

False Doctrine and False Hope

Roman Catholic doctrine denies all of that. Catholicism teaches that justification is an ongoing process that depends on the degree of real, personal righteousness we achieve. According to Rome, Christ’s merit imputed to us is not enough to save; we must earn more merit of our own through the sacraments and other good works. Righteousness is infused into us (rather than being imputed to us). But it is obvious that we are not perfectly righteous by any practical measure. So the righteousness we obtain by grace must be perfected by our own efforts.

According to Catholic teaching, this real, personal righteousness that resides in us is the necessary ground on which God accepts us. And our justification is not complete until we are really and completely perfect—by an inherent righteousness, not merely by a legally imputed righteousness. This actually reverses the biblical order, suggesting that we must first be perfected, and only then is our justification complete. In other words, in Roman Catholic doctrine, God does not justify the ungodly.

The Catholic view of justification poses an obvious dilemma. We know too well that even the best Christians fall far short of perfection. No one (Catholic teaching actually says almost no one) achieves absolute perfection in this life. And if our own perfection is a prerequisite for heaven, it would seem no one could enter there immediately upon dying. Any remaining imperfections would need to be worked out first.

The invention of purgatory was necessary to solve this dilemma. Deny that we are justified by faith alone, and you must devise an explanation of how we can make the transition from our imperfect state in this life to the perfect state of heaven. Purgatory is where Roman Catholics believe most people go after death to be finally purged of their remaining guilt and gain whatever merit they may be lacking to enter heaven. Catholicism teaches that this process involves intense pain and suffering.

Oddly enough, although Catholic doctrine denies that the imputed righteousness of Christ is sufficient to save sinners in this life, it does allow the imputation of righteousness from living sinners to those in purgatory. This is why masses are said for the dead. Supposedly the righteousness earned by way of the sacrament is imputed to the person in purgatory, which shortens his or her stay there.

The Catholic doctrine of purgatory offers false hope to people hoping to atone for their own sins on the other side of the grave. Rome’s warped and perverted view of justification will undoubtedly usher into eternal torment many who expected to have more time to achieve perfection.

https://www.gty.org/library/blog/B180718
Let’s be clear from the outset: The Roman Catholic... (show quote)


Amen and Amen Rose42 thank you for that definition of purgatory and how the Roman Catholic Church thinks and teaches it parishioners and how and what those false doctrines are. Again thank you Rose42 for pulling the curtain back on the Roman Catholic Church and its teachings.

Reply
Nov 28, 2018 11:12:01   #
Rose42
 
bahmer wrote:
Amen and Amen Rose42 thank you for that definition of purgatory and how the Roman Catholic Church thinks and teaches it parishioners and how and what those false doctrines are. Again thank you Rose42 for pulling the curtain back on the Roman Catholic Church and its teachings.


It would be interesting to see Doc try and refute this.

Reply
 
 
Nov 28, 2018 11:20:31   #
bahmer
 
Rose42 wrote:
It would be interesting to see Doc try and refute this.


He does have one up today on the religious section on purgatory and I am going there shortly to see if he has gotten any posters to it.

Reply
Nov 28, 2018 14:58:11   #
Rose42
 
A bit more....

According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, Purgatory is “a place or condition of temporal punishment for those who, departing this life in God's grace, are not entirely free from venial faults, or have not fully paid the satisfaction due to their transgressions.” To summarize, in Catholic theology Purgatory is a place that a Christian’s soul goes to after death to be cleansed of the sins that had not been fully satisfied during life. Is this doctrine of Purgatory in agreement with the Bible? Absolutely not!

Jesus died to pay the penalty for all of our sins (Romans 5:8). Isaiah 53:5 declares, “But He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him, and by His wounds we are healed.” Jesus suffered for our sins so that we could be delivered from suffering. To say that we must also suffer for our sins is to say that Jesus’ suffering was insufficient. To say that we must atone for our sins by cleansing in Purgatory is to deny the sufficiency of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus (1 John 2:2). The idea that we have to suffer for our sins after death is contrary to everything the Bible says about salvation.

The primary Scriptural passage Catholics point to for evidence of Purgatory is 1 Corinthians 3:15, which says, “If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.” The passage (1 Corinthians 3:12-15) is using an illustration of things going through fire as a description of believers’ works being judged. If our works are of good quality “gold, silver, costly stones,” they will pass through the fire unharmed, and we will be rewarded for them. If our works are of poor quality “wood, hay, and straw,” they will be consumed by the fire, and there will be no reward. The passage does not say that believers pass through the fire, but rather that a believer’s works pass through the fire. 1 Corinthians 3:15 refers to the believer “escaping through the flames,” not “being cleansed by the flames.”

Purgatory, like many other Catholic dogmas, is based on a misunderstanding of the nature of Christ’s sacrifice. Catholics view the Mass / Eucharist as a re-presentation of Christ’s sacrifice because they fail to understand that Jesus’ once-for-all sacrifice was absolutely and perfectly sufficient (Hebrews 7:27). Catholics view meritorious works as contributing to salvation due to a failure to recognize that Jesus’ sacrificial payment has no need of additional “contribution” (Ephesians 2:8-9). Similarly, Purgatory is understood by Catholics as a place of cleansing in preparation for heaven because they do not recognize that because of Jesus’ sacrifice, we are already cleansed, declared righteous, forgiven, redeemed, reconciled, and sanctified.

The very idea of Purgatory and the doctrines that are often attached to it (prayer for the dead, indulgences, meritorious works on behalf of the dead, etc.) fail to recognize that Jesus’ death was sufficient to pay the penalty for ALL of our sins. Jesus, who was God incarnate (John 1:1, 14), paid an infinite price for our sin. Jesus died for our sins (1 Corinthians 15:3). Jesus is the atoning sacrifice for our sins (1 John 2:2). To limit Jesus’ sacrifice to atoning for original sin or sins committed before salvation is an attack on the Person and Work of Jesus Christ. If we must, in order to be saved, pay for, atone for, or suffer because of our sins, then Jesus’ death was not a perfect, complete, and sufficient sacrifice.

For believers, after death is to be "away from the body and at home with the Lord" (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23). Notice that this does not say "away from the body, in Purgatory with the cleansing fire." No, because of the perfection, completion, and sufficiency of Jesus' sacrifice, we are immediately in the Lord's presence after death, fully cleansed, free from sin, glorified, perfected, and ultimately sanctified.

https://www.gotquestions.org/purgatory.html

Reply
Nov 28, 2018 15:08:14   #
bahmer
 
Rose42 wrote:
A bit more....

According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, Purgatory is “a place or condition of temporal punishment for those who, departing this life in God's grace, are not entirely free from venial faults, or have not fully paid the satisfaction due to their transgressions.” To summarize, in Catholic theology Purgatory is a place that a Christian’s soul goes to after death to be cleansed of the sins that had not been fully satisfied during life. Is this doctrine of Purgatory in agreement with the Bible? Absolutely not!

Jesus died to pay the penalty for all of our sins (Romans 5:8). Isaiah 53:5 declares, “But He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him, and by His wounds we are healed.” Jesus suffered for our sins so that we could be delivered from suffering. To say that we must also suffer for our sins is to say that Jesus’ suffering was insufficient. To say that we must atone for our sins by cleansing in Purgatory is to deny the sufficiency of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus (1 John 2:2). The idea that we have to suffer for our sins after death is contrary to everything the Bible says about salvation.

The primary Scriptural passage Catholics point to for evidence of Purgatory is 1 Corinthians 3:15, which says, “If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.” The passage (1 Corinthians 3:12-15) is using an illustration of things going through fire as a description of believers’ works being judged. If our works are of good quality “gold, silver, costly stones,” they will pass through the fire unharmed, and we will be rewarded for them. If our works are of poor quality “wood, hay, and straw,” they will be consumed by the fire, and there will be no reward. The passage does not say that believers pass through the fire, but rather that a believer’s works pass through the fire. 1 Corinthians 3:15 refers to the believer “escaping through the flames,” not “being cleansed by the flames.”

Purgatory, like many other Catholic dogmas, is based on a misunderstanding of the nature of Christ’s sacrifice. Catholics view the Mass / Eucharist as a re-presentation of Christ’s sacrifice because they fail to understand that Jesus’ once-for-all sacrifice was absolutely and perfectly sufficient (Hebrews 7:27). Catholics view meritorious works as contributing to salvation due to a failure to recognize that Jesus’ sacrificial payment has no need of additional “contribution” (Ephesians 2:8-9). Similarly, Purgatory is understood by Catholics as a place of cleansing in preparation for heaven because they do not recognize that because of Jesus’ sacrifice, we are already cleansed, declared righteous, forgiven, redeemed, reconciled, and sanctified.

The very idea of Purgatory and the doctrines that are often attached to it (prayer for the dead, indulgences, meritorious works on behalf of the dead, etc.) fail to recognize that Jesus’ death was sufficient to pay the penalty for ALL of our sins. Jesus, who was God incarnate (John 1:1, 14), paid an infinite price for our sin. Jesus died for our sins (1 Corinthians 15:3). Jesus is the atoning sacrifice for our sins (1 John 2:2). To limit Jesus’ sacrifice to atoning for original sin or sins committed before salvation is an attack on the Person and Work of Jesus Christ. If we must, in order to be saved, pay for, atone for, or suffer because of our sins, then Jesus’ death was not a perfect, complete, and sufficient sacrifice.

For believers, after death is to be "away from the body and at home with the Lord" (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23). Notice that this does not say "away from the body, in Purgatory with the cleansing fire." No, because of the perfection, completion, and sufficiency of Jesus' sacrifice, we are immediately in the Lord's presence after death, fully cleansed, free from sin, glorified, perfected, and ultimately sanctified.

https://www.gotquestions.org/purgatory.html
A bit more.... br br According to the Catholic En... (show quote)


Thank you Rose42 what a beautiful description of the saving work of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Reply
Nov 29, 2018 10:57:49   #
Radiance3
 
Rose42 wrote:
A bit more....

According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, Purgatory is “a place or condition of temporal punishment for those who, departing this life in God's grace, are not entirely free from venial faults, or have not fully paid the satisfaction due to their transgressions.” To summarize, in Catholic theology Purgatory is a place that a Christian’s soul goes to after death to be cleansed of the sins that had not been fully satisfied during life. Is this doctrine of Purgatory in agreement with the Bible? Absolutely not!

Jesus died to pay the penalty for all of our sins (Romans 5:8). Isaiah 53:5 declares, “But He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him, and by His wounds we are healed.” Jesus suffered for our sins so that we could be delivered from suffering. To say that we must also suffer for our sins is to say that Jesus’ suffering was insufficient. To say that we must atone for our sins by cleansing in Purgatory is to deny the sufficiency of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus (1 John 2:2). The idea that we have to suffer for our sins after death is contrary to everything the Bible says about salvation.

The primary Scriptural passage Catholics point to for evidence of Purgatory is 1 Corinthians 3:15, which says, “If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.” The passage (1 Corinthians 3:12-15) is using an illustration of things going through fire as a description of believers’ works being judged. If our works are of good quality “gold, silver, costly stones,” they will pass through the fire unharmed, and we will be rewarded for them. If our works are of poor quality “wood, hay, and straw,” they will be consumed by the fire, and there will be no reward. The passage does not say that believers pass through the fire, but rather that a believer’s works pass through the fire. 1 Corinthians 3:15 refers to the believer “escaping through the flames,” not “being cleansed by the flames.”

Purgatory, like many other Catholic dogmas, is based on a misunderstanding of the nature of Christ’s sacrifice. Catholics view the Mass / Eucharist as a re-presentation of Christ’s sacrifice because they fail to understand that Jesus’ once-for-all sacrifice was absolutely and perfectly sufficient (Hebrews 7:27). Catholics view meritorious works as contributing to salvation due to a failure to recognize that Jesus’ sacrificial payment has no need of additional “contribution” (Ephesians 2:8-9). Similarly, Purgatory is understood by Catholics as a place of cleansing in preparation for heaven because they do not recognize that because of Jesus’ sacrifice, we are already cleansed, declared righteous, forgiven, redeemed, reconciled, and sanctified.

The very idea of Purgatory and the doctrines that are often attached to it (prayer for the dead, indulgences, meritorious works on behalf of the dead, etc.) fail to recognize that Jesus’ death was sufficient to pay the penalty for ALL of our sins. Jesus, who was God incarnate (John 1:1, 14), paid an infinite price for our sin. Jesus died for our sins (1 Corinthians 15:3). Jesus is the atoning sacrifice for our sins (1 John 2:2). To limit Jesus’ sacrifice to atoning for original sin or sins committed before salvation is an attack on the Person and Work of Jesus Christ. If we must, in order to be saved, pay for, atone for, or suffer because of our sins, then Jesus’ death was not a perfect, complete, and sufficient sacrifice.

For believers, after death is to be "away from the body and at home with the Lord" (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23). Notice that this does not say "away from the body, in Purgatory with the cleansing fire." No, because of the perfection, completion, and sufficiency of Jesus' sacrifice, we are immediately in the Lord's presence after death, fully cleansed, free from sin, glorified, perfected, and ultimately sanctified.

https://www.gotquestions.org/purgatory.html
A bit more.... br br According to the Catholic En... (show quote)

==============
The Gospel of Luther, Calvin, or Zwingli 500 years ago has NO authoritative powers to be used for God's teachings. All those who use Sola Scriptura's Scriptures are not recognized as legitimate teachings of God. Without Authority from Christ, you are hijacking th rights of those who were given the authority that is the Catholic Church, and all its people within the Covenant of God.

Anybody using Scriptures from Sola Scriptura, and without the Covenant with Christ, are illegitimate, and outside the house of God.

Reply
 
 
Nov 29, 2018 11:05:15   #
Rose42
 
Radiance3 wrote:
==============
The Gospel of Luther, Calvin, or Zwingli 500 years ago has NO authoritative powers to be used for God's teachings. All those who use Sola Scriptura's Scriptures are not recognized as legitimate teachings of God. Without Authority from Christ, you are hijacking th rights of those who were given the authority that is the Catholic Church, and all its people within the Covenant of God.

Anybody using Scriptures from Sola Scriptura, and without the Covenant with Christ, are illegitimate, and outside the house of God.
============== br The Gospel of Luther, Calvin, or... (show quote)


It's not their gospel and sola sriptura is not scripture. One would think you would grasp such a simple fact after being told so many times.

Reply
Nov 29, 2018 11:11:12   #
bahmer
 
Rose42 wrote:
It's not their gospel and sola sriptura is not scripture. One would think you would grasp such a simple fact after being told so many times.


Their priests have done an excellent job of brainwashing and they have all learned well over the years from fighting against the truth.

Reply
Nov 29, 2018 12:50:07   #
Radiance3
 
Rose42 wrote:
It's not their gospel and sola sriptura is not scripture. One would think you would grasp such a simple fact after being told so many times.


=================
You can recite the Scriptures of the Sola Scriptura all day, but still an outlaw.

What ever you say you are an OUTLAW Rose. The Sola Scriptura is an Outlaw. You are not part of the Gospel or teachings of Christ. Only the ones vested with authority are the recognized children of God. All of you Protestants are illegitimate, with no inheritance from God. Born out of wedlock only 500 years ago. You Protestants are all outside the house of God.

You can recite all Solas Scriptures but that does not make you the beneficiary of God's Authority given to His sole Beneficiary His Church, the Holy Universal Catholic Church, to keep, preach, and teach His Gospel.

Aside from that, all of you Protestants with the Sola Scriptura are not the true heirs of God's Holy Scriptures. God gave his sole Authority to His Church, the One Holy Catholic Church 1, 987 years ago. God bestowed His power and authority to the Catholic Church to continue preaching and teaching his Gospel. The Catholic Church has been doing that consistently since 2000 years ago.

Your 500-year-old Sola Scriptura was MAN-MADE by Luther, Calvin and Zwingli. Even the 3 of them did not agree with each other. But that made up your Sola Scriptura.

You use the Scriptures from the 500-year old Sola Scriptura but they are not AUTHENTIC and ILLEGITIMATE. Jesus did not AUTHORIZE that to preach His Gospel.

Keep on reciting the Scriptures. They have no bearing with God's Gospel. NOT RECOGNIZED AS AUTHORITATIVE.

Christ gave His Authority, 1987 years ago, to His Church, the Catholic Church thru Saint Peter. Matthew 16:18.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+16%3A18&version=KJV

And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

CATHOLICS are recognized children of God by the COVENANT he gave us.
His death and resurrection, His body and blood poured out for us, to wash away our sins, His covenant he gave us will last forever.
We fulfill Christ's covenant through the Holy Eucharist.
John 6:53-59
53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.” 59 He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.

The Eternal Covenant
Genesis 17:7
"I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your descendants after you.

Jeremiah 32:40
"I will make an everlasting covenant with them that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; and I will put the fear of Me in their hearts so that they will not turn away from Me.

Genesis 9:12
Verse Concepts
God said, "This is the sign of the covenant which I am making between Me and you and every living creature that is with you, for all successive generations;

Genesis 9:16
Verse Concepts
"When the bow is in the cloud, then I will look upon it, to remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is on the earth."

Genesis 17:13
Verse Concepts
"A servant who is born in your house or who is bought with your money shall surely be circumcised; thus shall My covenant be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

Genesis 17:19
Verse Concepts
But God said, "No, but Sarah your wife will bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; and I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him.

Numbers 18:19
Verse Concepts
"All the offerings of the holy gifts, which the sons of Israel offer to the LORD, I have given to you and your sons and your daughters with you, as a perpetual allotment It is an everlasting covenant of salt before the LORD to you and your descendants with you."

2 Samuel 23:5
Verse Concepts
"Truly is not my house so with God? For He has made an everlasting covenant with me, Ordered in all things, and secured; For all my salvation and all my desire, Will He not indeed make it grow?

1 Chronicles 16:17
Verse Concepts
He also confirmed it to Jacob for a statute, To Israel as an everlasting covenant,

Psalm 105:8
Verse Concepts
He has remembered His covenant forever, The word which He commanded to a thousand generations,

Psalm 105:10
Verse Concepts
Then He confirmed it to Jacob for a statute, To Israel as an everlasting covenant,

Psalm 111:5
Verse Concepts
He has given food to those who fear Him; He will remember His covenant forever.

Psalm 111:9
Verse Concepts
He has sent redemption to His people; He has ordained His covenant forever; Holy and awesome is His name.

Isaiah 55:3
Verse Concepts
"Incline your ear and come to Me Listen, that you may live; And I will make an everlasting covenant with you, According to the faithful mercies shown to David.

Jeremiah 50:5
Verse Concepts
"They will ask for the way to Zion, turning their faces in its direction; they will come that they may join themselves to the LORD in an everlasting covenant that will not be forgotten.

Ezekiel 16:60
Verse Concepts
"Nevertheless, I will remember My covenant with you in the days of your youth, and I will establish an everlasting covenant with you.

Ezekiel 37:26
Verse Concepts
"I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant with them And I will place them and multiply them, and will set My sanctuary in their midst forever.

Hebrews 13:20
Verse Concepts
Now the God of peace, who brought up from the dead the great Shepherd of the sheep through the blood of the eternal covenant, even Jesus our Lord,

Exodus 31:16
Verse Concepts
'So the sons of Israel shall observe the sabbath, to celebrate the sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.'

Hosea 2:19
Verse Concepts
"I will betroth you to Me forever; Yes, I will betroth you to Me in righteousness and in justice, In lovingkindness and in compassion,

Luke 1:55
Verse Concepts
As He spoke to our fathers, To Abraham and his descendants forever."

Reply
Nov 29, 2018 12:54:08   #
Rose42
 
Radiance3 wrote:
=================
You can recite the Scriptures of the Sola Scriptura all day, but still an outlaw.


And your continued willful and obstinate ignorance in using such a simple term incorrectly is why none of your arguments are taken seriously.

Even Catholic apologists know how to use the term correctly.

Reply
 
 
Nov 29, 2018 13:04:09   #
Radiance3
 
Rose42 wrote:
And your continued willful and obstinate ignorance in using such a simple term incorrectly is why none of your arguments are taken seriously.

Even Catholic apologists know how to use the term correctly.

==================
You are a hijacker Rose. Though you have a huge prolific mouth, they are all out of God's authority. Typical of OULAWS. That is what outlaws do.
You by-passed the Authority of Christ.

All illegal maneuver of the Gospel of Christ.
Protestants with the 47,000 denominations are not part of God's Covenant.
Protestants SELL THE WORDS OF GOD for lucrative business, each one of the 47,000 denominations are competing each other with various interpretations of God's Gospel.

Whoever among the 47,000 Pastors have the huge prolific mouth selling the Solas Scriptures, make the most money.
Here they are:

http://pleasuresmagazine.com.ng/2016/09/top-50-ludicrously-wealthy-pastors/

Reply
Nov 29, 2018 13:15:18   #
Radiance3
 
Rose42 wrote:
It's not their gospel and sola sriptura is not scripture. One would think you would grasp such a simple fact after being told so many times.

===============
It does not matter. It was man- made 500 years ago. This is outside God's authority.
Protestant are not authorized to preach, teach, and keep God's Scriptures. These were all copied selectively from the Bible or Teachings of Christ 1,987 years ago.

But Protestants use it for the money making machine. Whoever among the 47,000 denominations Pastors have the loudest and biggest mouth, makes more money selling every word of God to the deceived and misled people.
http://pleasuresmagazine.com.ng/2016/09/top-50-ludicrously-wealthy-pastors/

Sep 30, 2016 - Pleasures Magazine Exclusive: Full List Of The 50 Richest Pastors In ... A born-again Christians.

Reply
Nov 30, 2018 06:00:14   #
jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho
 
Rose42 wrote:
Let’s be clear from the outset: The Roman Catholic doctrine of purgatory is taught nowhere in Scripture. It was invented to accommodate Catholicism’s denial of justification by faith alone. And it offers false hope to millions who anticipate ample time beyond the grave—perhaps eons, if necessary—to achieve their own justification.

Scripture very clearly teaches that an absolutely perfect righteousness is necessary for entry into heaven. Jesus said, “I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 5:20). He then added, “Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect” (Matthew 5:48)—thus setting the standard as high as it can possibly be set.

The Only Way to Heaven

Later in His ministry, when the rich young ruler approached Jesus to ask how he might enter heaven, Jesus upheld this same standard of absolute perfection. He began by challenging the clear implication that the young man hoped he could attain a sufficient goodness of his own to merit heaven: “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good” (Matthew 19:17). Notice: Jesus did not disclaim that He Himself was sinlessly perfect (a common misinterpretation of this passage). He was simply pointing out plainly that the standard of perfection required to earn heaven is impossible for fallen creatures.

Because the young man was undeterred by this, however, Jesus told him that to obtain eternal life, he must have a track record of perfect obedience to the law (Matthew 19:17-22). Again and again, Jesus made the required standard of righteousness impossibly high for all who would seek to earn God’s favor on their own.

The young ruler clearly did not understand or acknowledge his own sinfulness. He assured Jesus that he had indeed kept the law from his youth up (v. 20).

Jesus subtly pointed out the young man’s covetousness (v. 21), which was a violation of the tenth commandment. From the outset of His conversation with the young man, the Lord was prodding him to confess that no one but God Himself is truly good. But the rich young ruler was unwilling to face his own sinfulness, and so he went away without salvation.

The disciples marveled at this. The young man was evidently—from a human perspective—one of the most righteous individuals they’d encountered. Notice that no one disputed his claim that he had obeyed the law. That suggests there were no overt sins in his life that anyone could point to. He seemed the best of men. So the disciples were floored when he walked away with no assurance of eternal life from Jesus. In fact, Jesus told them, “Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God” (Matthew 19:23-24).

There’s no mistaking Jesus’ point. He was setting the standard at an impossible height. He was saying that the most fastidious legal observance is not enough. The most flawless external righteousness is not enough. All the worldly advantages of wealth are of no help. Only absolute perfection is acceptable to God. Our Lord kept underscoring these truths because He wanted people to see the utter futility of trying to earn righteousness by any system of works.

The disciples got the message. They asked, “Then who can be saved?” (Matthew 19:25).

And Jesus replied, “With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible” (Matthew 19:26).

Accepted By Imputation

We know from Paul’s treatise on justification in Romans 4 that God saves believers by imputing to them the merit of Christ’s perfect righteousness—by no means because of their own righteousness. God accepts believers “in Christ.” He clothes them with the perfect righteousness of Christ. He declares them perfectly righteous because of Christ. Their sins have been imputed to Christ, who has paid the full penalty. His righteousness is now imputed to them—and through His imputed righteousness—they receive His full merit. That is what justification by faith means. The Father “made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him” (2 Corinthians 5:21).

In other words, God does not first make us perfect, then accept us on that basis. He first legally justifies us by imputing to us an alien righteousness, then perfects us by conforming us to the image of Christ. He “justifies the ungodly” (Romans 4:5).

Paul wrote, “Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ” (Romans 5:1). “Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus” (Romans 8:1). Those verses describe our justification as something already accomplished—a completed reality, not something we are striving for. Jesus Himself described justification as an immediate event when He told how the repentant publican was saved after begging God for mercy: “I tell you, this man went to his house justified” (Luke 18:14).

Scripture clearly and consistently attests to justification as a settled fact for every believer; it is not an ongoing process. We stand before God in faith right now, fully acceptable to Him because of Christ’s righteousness—not because of any doings of our own.

False Doctrine and False Hope

Roman Catholic doctrine denies all of that. Catholicism teaches that justification is an ongoing process that depends on the degree of real, personal righteousness we achieve. According to Rome, Christ’s merit imputed to us is not enough to save; we must earn more merit of our own through the sacraments and other good works. Righteousness is infused into us (rather than being imputed to us). But it is obvious that we are not perfectly righteous by any practical measure. So the righteousness we obtain by grace must be perfected by our own efforts.

According to Catholic teaching, this real, personal righteousness that resides in us is the necessary ground on which God accepts us. And our justification is not complete until we are really and completely perfect—by an inherent righteousness, not merely by a legally imputed righteousness. This actually reverses the biblical order, suggesting that we must first be perfected, and only then is our justification complete. In other words, in Roman Catholic doctrine, God does not justify the ungodly.

The Catholic view of justification poses an obvious dilemma. We know too well that even the best Christians fall far short of perfection. No one (Catholic teaching actually says almost no one) achieves absolute perfection in this life. And if our own perfection is a prerequisite for heaven, it would seem no one could enter there immediately upon dying. Any remaining imperfections would need to be worked out first.

The invention of purgatory was necessary to solve this dilemma. Deny that we are justified by faith alone, and you must devise an explanation of how we can make the transition from our imperfect state in this life to the perfect state of heaven. Purgatory is where Roman Catholics believe most people go after death to be finally purged of their remaining guilt and gain whatever merit they may be lacking to enter heaven. Catholicism teaches that this process involves intense pain and suffering.

Oddly enough, although Catholic doctrine denies that the imputed righteousness of Christ is sufficient to save sinners in this life, it does allow the imputation of righteousness from living sinners to those in purgatory. This is why masses are said for the dead. Supposedly the righteousness earned by way of the sacrament is imputed to the person in purgatory, which shortens his or her stay there.

The Catholic doctrine of purgatory offers false hope to people hoping to atone for their own sins on the other side of the grave. Rome’s warped and perverted view of justification will undoubtedly usher into eternal torment many who expected to have more time to achieve perfection.

https://www.gty.org/library/blog/B180718
Let’s be clear from the outset: The Roman Catholic... (show quote)




Rose42,
Thank you for this posting, increasing understanding of the Catholic beliefs.

With this extreme twisting of God's word, x it becomes more understandable the need for more books added to the 66 God gave us.
During the first century 52ish-94ish +/- a year. False letters were be introduced into the church, even in its infancy. It was during the early part of the first century Paul addressed this in his first and second letters to the Thessalonians.
Ever since 323 when Constantine started the Roman Catholic church officially grounded in the pagan. The catholic church has introduced false letters to justify its false doctrine and gain acceptance. More was needed, thus they adobted oral traditions equal in authority to scripture.
It was in 431the doctrine of Mother Mary, Mother of God.

In 593 the doctrine of Purgatory was added by Pope Gregory.

In 600 the masses began in Latin, this is the same year directing prayers to Mary and the dead.

Then in 850 water with a pinch of salt, Holy water began

In 998 fasting on Fridays and lent

1090 the beads, roserary beads first started

In 1215 the sacrifice or Eucharist began,The dogma of transubstantiation

Then in 1190 the purchase of forgiveness started as a doctrinal practice.

1215 confession of sins at least once a year to a priest begins

1229 the Bible is forbidden to all layman

The Roman Catholic church added throughout the years, developing what we see today and without adding oral traditions it falls on its face.

Interesting that they claim Peter started the church and it is today as it was then... Then why is it that 99% of Roman catholic false doctrine was added after the year 500's, dozens of doctrine, everything that separated from the Catholic church from Protestant in doctrine or a majority was added after.
Shouldn't the Catholic church "true" church if built on Peter looked more like the original church? Rhetorical...
And purgatory makes Jesus to be a liar.

You may find this interesting
http://www.scribd.com/document/88321072/List-of-Catholic-False-Teachings-Dates-Instituted

God Bless

Reply
Nov 30, 2018 06:01:58   #
jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho
 
Radiance3 wrote:
===============
It does not matter. It was man- made 500 years ago. This is outside God's authority.
Protestant are not authorized to preach, teach, and keep God's Scriptures. These were all copied selectively from the Bible or Teachings of Christ 1,987 years ago.

But Protestants use it for the money making machine. Whoever among the 47,000 denominations Pastors have the loudest and biggest mouth, makes more money selling every word of God to the deceived and misled people.
http://pleasuresmagazine.com.ng/2016/09/top-50-ludicrously-wealthy-pastors/

Sep 30, 2016 - Pleasures Magazine Exclusive: Full List Of The 50 Richest Pastors In ... A born-again Christians.
=============== br It does not matter. It was man-... (show quote)




Pretty sure you have that backwards..

This is what man made looks like

http://www.scribd.com/document/88321072/List-of-Catholic-False-Teachings-Dates-Instituted

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