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Do we as individuals have any Obligations to others?
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Apr 28, 2014 10:45:23   #
Tasine Loc: Southwest US
 
Floyd Brown wrote:


But I hear little about the Obligations of those that have those Rights.

Or could it have been meant that all should have a chance to enjoy what those words mean.

If that is so, is it not the Obligation of all of Us to see that Dream can be by all?

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No, it is NOT the obligation of all of us to see that dream can be had by all. Firstly, that is not a dream. These are words that reflect our rights. We have the God-given right to life. We have the God-given right to be free. We have the God-given right to pursue happiness. The obligation every American has to to protect these rights and not allow government to remove them. No one has the "right to happiness". Hopefully everyone can find happiness, but we know that is simply impossible. Many people will NOT do what works pretty well in finding happiness. When I wake up each morning, I make a conscious decision: will today be a happy day for me or an unhappy day for me? People who decide to be happy usually are. People who see nothing but negatives tend to be unhappy.

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Apr 28, 2014 10:48:59   #
Tasine Loc: Southwest US
 
Patty wrote:
People confuse these rights as being given by the government, they were not. They were given by "our Creator" made very clear in the 2nd paragraph of the Constitution.
“We hold these t***hs to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
The federal, State, and local governments secure this right by not meddling in our lives! We have the right to live our own lives free from interference as long as we do not deprive other people of their God-given rights.
People confuse these rights as being given by the ... (show quote)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Great comment, Patty!

Beautifully said!
Beautifully said!...

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Apr 28, 2014 10:49:11   #
Blacksheep
 
Floyd Brown wrote:
You hear it all the time about the Rights we have & the Rights we are loosing.

But I hear little about the Obligations of those that have those Rights.

So I ask do the Words "Life, Liberty & The Pursuit of Happiness" only apply to the few?

Is that the basis this Country was founded on?

Or could it have been meant that all should have a chance to enjoy what those words mean.

If that is so, is it not the Obligation of all of Us to see that Dream can be by all?
You hear it all the time about the Rights we have ... (show quote)

--------------------------------------------

No. To put it succinctly.

There's an old saying that "If you want a Free Press then you need to own one". We each make our own level of freedom, we each choose our own paths. What you're asking is "Are we responsible for everyone else's freedom?" and the answer is obviously No. If we were, then we would be obligated to take turns in prison with those sent there so they could get out. Yes, that's pushing the idea to the limit but it's apt.

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Apr 28, 2014 10:54:14   #
Floyd Brown Loc: Milwaukee WI
 
Constitutional libertarian wrote:
I'm actually getting quite tired of trying to get people on here to listen.

Floyd we completely agree with you, but Patty is right too. To take from one person be it at gun point or through the IRS is stealing either way.

I "strongly" advocate volunteerism, my entire life has been dedicated to helping others. I have been attacked on here by those that say charity isn't the answer.

I say those people are misguided, that if you can help just one person you have made a difference.

They also attack the church, pointing fingers at those tv evangelists, well all I can say to that is turn off the tv and go find a small community church and see all of the amazing work they do for others.

Just find what trips your trigger and give them your time.

If all 300,000,000 million plus Americans gave just a couple of hours a week instead of relying on the gov to solve our problems we would have the America we all know can be achieved.

All I know is I could do so much more if the gov didn't just raise my taxes a year ago. I know 2% doesn't sound like much but that equates to thousands of dollars out of my pocket. And now I read more and more companies want to move out of the us because our corp tax rate is out of line in comparison to others like Ireland's.

Whose greed is it our governments 37% tax rate or companies like walgreens who see some European ones as low as 12.5%.

When do we stop relying on gov and start relying on ourselves.
I'm actually getting quite tired of trying to get ... (show quote)


The system we have is more than fair to the few with the most. Those that get the most from the system need to pay the most period.

I don't want to trust on when you may or may not help me. I want a job that pays me enough to be a true part of the system. I wish to be paid fairly for what I do.

If every one is truly a part of the system then every one could pay more in taxes & the burden on each would be less.

We all seek to be secure. But we only become more secure as more of us become secure. If each of us attempts to gain security by having more things it is a false security.

Reply
Apr 28, 2014 10:54:18   #
jay-are
 
Patty wrote:
People confuse these rights as being given by the government, they were not. They were given by "our Creator" made very clear in the 2nd paragraph of the Constitution.
“We hold these t***hs to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
The federal, State, and local governments secure this right by not meddling in our lives! We have the right to live our own lives free from interference as long as we do not deprive other people of their God-given rights.
People confuse these rights as being given by the ... (show quote)


Much as I agree that the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution are equally founding documents, and equally valid and important, that Quote you gave is actually from the Declaration of Independence and not the Constitution.

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Apr 28, 2014 11:00:27   #
Tasine Loc: Southwest US
 
bahmer wrote:
And taxation is stealing from those that have and giving to those that do not have is theft not charity. If they had left the system alone there would be a lot more charity today than there is. Even today if someone wants to be charitable and start a food kitchen for the poor they have to go through all kinds of licensing and inspections as well as intrusions from politicians who want to appear important.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You got that right. One way small groups raise money is to have bake sales, tamale sales, etc. NOW there MUST be a "licensed food handler" on hand when these items are made and sold. I am a board member on a tax exempt organization that works to provide for our small community what it cannot otherwise have, and that organization has done some great work for the community, but in order to continue part of our fundraising which involves food, 3 of us on the board took the course and now have our food handling licenses. Being a retired RN, I learned nothing I didn't already know. Another, was retired from the retail food industry. She learned nothing either. But the government gets a real high on being able to jerk people around. The fact that it is ridiculous doesn't bother them at all. The fact that we taxpayers PAY these jerk-offs DOES bother me!!

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Apr 28, 2014 11:01:13   #
Patty
 
You are correct thank you.
jay-are wrote:
Much as I agree that the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution are equally founding documents, and equally valid and important, that Quote you gave is actually from the Declaration of Independence and not the Constitution.

Reply
Apr 28, 2014 11:04:03   #
Comment Loc: California
 
Floyd Brown wrote:
You hear it all the time about the Rights we have & the Rights we are loosing.

But I hear little about the Obligations of those that have those Rights.

So I ask do the Words "Life, Liberty & The Pursuit of Happiness" only apply to the few?

Is that the basis this Country was founded on?

Or could it have been meant that all should have a chance to enjoy what those words mean.

If that is so, is it not the Obligation of all of Us to see that Dream can be by all?
You hear it all the time about the Rights we have ... (show quote)


LLP are options. One can pursue them or not pursue them. LBJ committed us to 21 trillion dollars to help the poor pursue the LLP (life, liberty & pursuit of ---) but all that resulted is a larger population of lazy bastards. Therefore, the war on Poverty is a great big failure and you, who believes that giving more to a segment of society that is counter productive, will eventually bring down a whole country. Romans didn't have to work near the end of their 1000 yr reign and that brought down the whole empire because the people were taxed to the max and there wasn't enough money o support the empire. Not enough to pay the solders so they all went home. This nation is barely 200 yrs old and is repeating the same liberal progressive mistakes that the world's first republic made. You c*******t ideals will work just fine until you run out of other people's money. Too bad that you are so ignorant of history; but then you are not lone, you have a lot of c*******t friends.

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Apr 28, 2014 11:16:26   #
jay-are
 
Billhuggins wrote:
LLP are options. One can pursue them or not pursue them. LBJ committed us to 21 trillion dollars to help the poor pursue the LLP (life, liberty & pursuit of ---) but all that resulted is a larger population of lazy bastards. Therefore, the war on Poverty is a great big failure and you, who believes that giving more to a segment of society that is counter productive, will eventually bring down a whole country. Romans didn't have to work near the end of their 1000 yr reign and that brought down the whole empire because the people were taxed to the max and there wasn't enough money o support the empire. Not enough to pay the solders so they all went home. This nation is barely 200 yrs old and is repeating the same liberal progressive mistakes that the world's first republic made. You c*******t ideals will work just fine until you run out of other people's money. Too bad that you are so ignorant of history; but then you are not lone, you have a lot of c*******t friends.
LLP are options. One can pursue them or not pursue... (show quote)


That says it all! Perfect! Results count. Good intentions aren't necessarily a solution.

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Apr 28, 2014 11:28:07   #
Tasine Loc: Southwest US
 
jay-are wrote:
Much as I agree that the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution are equally founding documents, and equally valid and important, that Quote you gave is actually from the Declaration of Independence and not the Constitution.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
But the actual effect of those words is in the Bill of Rights which ARE in the Constitution.

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Apr 28, 2014 11:29:31   #
Glaucon
 
Floyd Brown wrote:
Why do you choose to ignore the basics of what this country was founded on?

It is living up to meeting the Obligations that come with the Rights people have. The Obligation to preserve the "Right of All to Life, Liberty & The Pursuit of Happiness"

It is not about doing any thing for any one. It is that the system needs to see that all have a reasonable chance at getting those things.

If the Private sector fails to do what is needed to create a fair system then the Government needs to step up & do it.

To much wealth in to few hands is the problem. To much greed keeps the system from giving all a fair chance at having those Rights.
Why do you choose to ignore the basics of what thi... (show quote)


Floyd, You are right on.

Reply
 
 
Apr 28, 2014 11:35:46   #
Tasine Loc: Southwest US
 
Floyd Brown wrote:
The system we have is more than fair to the few with the most. Those that get the most from the system need to pay the most period.

I don't want to trust on when you may or may not help me. I want a job that pays me enough to be a true part of the system. I wish to be paid fairly for what I do.

If every one is truly a part of the system then every one could pay more in taxes & the burden on each would be less.

We all seek to be secure. But we only become more secure as more of us become secure. If each of us attempts to gain security by having more things it is a false security.
The system we have is more than fair to the few wi... (show quote)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The word security has more than one meaning. I believe security resides in the mind of the person addressing it. Perfect and absolute security is not possible in this life. Some people think money provides security. It doesn't, unless the only security one is thinking of is buying power. Some people think having a good education is security. Wrong again unless it can be used to one's advantage. Religion makes true believers feel secure for their next life, but not necessarily for this life. I see security as having life and freedom. If either of those things is removed, I have lost my security. Everything else is questionable.

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Apr 28, 2014 11:42:58   #
Floyd Brown Loc: Milwaukee WI
 
Tasine wrote:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The word security has more than one meaning. I believe security resides in the mind of the person addressing it. Perfect and absolute security is not possible in this life. Some people think money provides security. It doesn't, unless the only security one is thinking of is buying power. Some people think having a good education is security. Wrong again unless it can be used to one's advantage. Religion makes true believers feel secure for their next life, but not necessarily for this life. I see security as having life and freedom. If either of those things is removed, I have lost my security. Everything else is questionable.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ br The word security has mo... (show quote)


We all need to have security & feel secure. No matter what each of us needs it is important that at least we feel secure.

The more of us that feel secure the more security we all have.

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Apr 28, 2014 11:45:13   #
Tasine Loc: Southwest US
 
Floyd Brown wrote:
We all need to have security & feel secure. No matter what each of us needs it is important that at least we feel secure.

The more of us that feel secure the more security we all have.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What does it take to make people feel secure? And who is responsible for it?

Reply
Apr 28, 2014 11:46:17   #
JimMe
 
Floyd Brown wrote:
You hear it all the time about the Rights we have & the Rights we are loosing.

But I hear little about the Obligations of those that have those Rights.

So I ask do the Words "Life, Liberty & The Pursuit of Happiness" only apply to the few?

Is that the basis this Country was founded on?

Or could it have been meant that all should have a chance to enjoy what those words mean.

If that is so, is it not the Obligation of all of Us to see that Dream can be by all?
You hear it all the time about the Rights we have ... (show quote)


SHOULD We Help Others If We Know Their Rights Are Being Violated?!? Yes... Do We Have An "OBLIGATION" To Help?!? NO!!! "Should" is a More of a Suggestion... "Obligation" is More of a Mandate...

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