lindajoy Loc: right here with you....

Who disproved all that kevvy?? You said it has been disproven.. I’m asking you a simple question you claim to know about..

The world is waiting~~~Speak up...

Doc110 Loc: York PA

PeterS,

Listen, read and or watch the "Imitation of Christ" it sheds light and wisdom to the devotion to God.

The 15th century author, Thomas à Kempis’s spiritual classic book rational is must read and instructs what God gives to your question "Religion Does to Rational Thought."

Our daily spiritual life is outside of humanist secularism, populism and deprativity of human politics and miserable people.

a. “Useful reminders for the spiritual life,” and practical and straightforward advice for spiritual growth.
b. “Suggestions drawing one toward the inner life,” and practical and straightforward advice for spiritual growth.
c. Advice “of inner comfort.” Jesus has a exchange of intimate words, and worshipful prayer and response a simple dialogue between an unnamed disciple. (Could this be you ?)
d. Is on the Sacrament the Holy Eucharist.” Jesus teachings and exchanges are oftentimes are called the "Devotio Moderno" which stresses the inner life of the individual.

The "Imitation of Christ" book by 15th century author, Thomas à Kempis’s puts to shame to the ungodly current day learned man-made philosophies. It's only personal "Vanity."

Remember, this book is the second most t***slated and published book in history, next to the Holy Bible !

And has completely bering on Darwinian Evolution and creationism.


Any Christian person who wants to walk more closely to Christ and should extend to spiritual minded people, e.g. deist, atheists and non believers this book, audio and video will change your current religious or non religious beliefs.


It's text and audio version is deeply inspirational and highly conducive to loving and serving and surrendering to God.

Try to enjoy and be spiritually inspired in God's love and spiritual salvation.

Doc110


The Thomas à Kempis’s spiritual classic book, "The Imitation of Christ." Audio and music

Free Audio and music version YouTube, Book IV An Invitation to Holy Communion

1. Book 4, The Imitation of Christ 5 of 5 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H58yFpMFoyM&frags=pl%2Cwn

2. Book 3, The Imitation of Christ 3 of 5 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiUIz23uAGo&frags=pl%2Cwn

3. Book 3, The Imitation of Christ 4 of 5 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AE4bhlBMd5w&frags=pl%2Cwn

4. Book 2, The Imitation of Christ 2 of 5 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKdQbkV0enY&frags=pl%2Cwn

5. Book 1, The Imitation of Christ 2 of 5 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8JUgYcjbcM&frags=pl%2Cwn

The Imitation of Christ, Thomas à Kempis’s
a. Free digital written Ebook http://www.catholicexchange.com
b. Free digital written Ebook http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/1653
c. Free digital written Ebook http://www.catholicarchive.org/thomas_a_kempis/the_imitation_of_christ/
d. Free digital written Ebook www.sacred-texts.com/chr/ioc/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" style="word-wrap:break-word;">www.sacred-texts.com/chr/ioc/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.www.sacred-texts.com/chr/ioc/

It is a beautiful powerful spiritual book is ("Not") written from a dogmatic "point of view," "Do this or God will punish you." This classic is one of the very best daily devotional books you could ever hope to own.

What Religion Does to Rational Thought.

That's the spiritual "Rational Thought" that gives "Religion" and Christianity the guidance, love of "God" and what christians strive to give and help others in need.

Darwinism and Creationism are diametrically opposes as a shadow in God's light.

Doc110

woodguru

You don't "know" there's no god, it's more like just not caring if there is or isn't, it doesn't matter when values are baked in, I'll take the purely christian values of an atheist that lives according to values of kindness and respect for other people, no matter who and what they are.

BigMike Loc: yerington nv

Ya...I had an acquaintance once who was into Eastern religion. I remember referring to God as "He" once during a conversation.

"That's where you're getting it wrong, man", he said with great sincerity. "God isn't a He...God is like, everything etcetc…"

I listened a bit and then pointed out he'd just spent hours telling me how reality is what we make.

"By your own definition" I asked, "how could I possibly be wrong?"

padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al

I'm sorry, Woodguru, but I am compelled to tell you that what you posted above is as far fetched and nonsensical as anything I have read or heard in years. "The purely Christian values of an atheist?" You've obviously not seen God or know much about Him. Jesus tells all of us that only the pure in heart will see God. I remind you that God is the greatest of all realities. The single greatest commandment is to love God AND love your neighbor - you cannot separate one from the other. Love God and not your neighbor you fail. Love your neighbor and not God you fail.

An old teacher once asked his pupils how they could tell when the night had ended and the day had begun. "Could it be," asked one of the students, "when you see an animal in the distance and can tell if it a dog or a sheep?" "No," answered the teacher. Another asked, "Is it when you can see a tree in the distance and can tell if it is an apple or pear tree?" "No," answered the teacher. "Then when is it?" the pupils demanded. The teacher replied, " it is when you can look on the face of any man or woman and see that is your sister or brother, the living image and icon of the living God. Because if you cannot see this, it is still night."

Question: What do you see when you look at the face of President Donald Trump?

padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al

And you left him thinking how to put all the pieces back together again.

PeterS

So if I say a unicorn exists then he exists? As for competing philosophies, why does a coin have two sides? Irrationalism is the belief in the supernatural and rationalism a belief in the natural. They are separate philosophies because they deal with separate belief systems. The problem exists when we believe that the two are the same...taint so...

PeterS

Because aren't both on the same side of the fence. One is a belief in that which has no rational proof and the other is a belief in that which can be proved rationally. What's happening in this country is that Christian Conservatism is taking rational science and replacing it with irrational faith and calling it the same. They aren't and to teach our children that they are is an injustice to them and our country as a whole.

PeterS

You can't disprove that which has no rational proof. I have no problem with creationism so long as it is kept in our churches but CC's want it to be taught along with science in our public schools. So are our religious schools teaching evolution alongside with creationism? Of course not--which is all the more reason to keep the two separate in the public sector...

Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON

One more time:

Y'all might take a brutally honest look at atheistic beliefs, you will find they are self-contradictory and based in irrational thought. Throughout history religious philosophers and theologians have made convincing arguments on this point. In his book, Miracles, C.S. Lewis presents a striking argument about the irrationality of atheism.

Here is a contemporary philosopher's argument.

The Irrationality of Atheist Belief

by Jefferson White
[Utopia]

I. That the Atheist Conception of Evolution Is Illogical

In this argument, we are not interested in whether macro-evolution occurs. For the sake of argument, we will assume that it does. Thus the argument is that it is the atheist's conception of macro-evolution that is illogical.

According to Western atheists, there is a Big Bang and energy emerges. Energy evolves into matter and matter eventually evolves into life.

But this scenario is impossible as a matter of logic. It is illogical because the conclusion of every logical argument is found in the premise of that argument. For example, the argument that "one plus one equals two" is a logical argument because "one plus one" is simply another way of saying "two."

Therefore, as a matter of logic, energy cannot evolve into matter unless matter is presupposed in energy. Nor can matter evolve into life unless life is presupposed in matter - and in energy - from the beginning. Logically speaking, therefore, life is presupposed from the instant that the cosmos begins. Although life as a structure may not appear until billions of years later, this appearance is possible only if life is presupposed.

If only energy exists at the beginning of the cosmos, there will only ever be energy. According to the law of identity (A=A) it is impossible for energy to evolve into something other than itself. If energy does evolve into matter and matter then evolves into life, this can only be because matter and life are implicit within energy.

This is why the atheist conception of evolution is logically incoherent. It is logical nonsense to believe that life can evolve out of non-life.

II. That the Atheist Conception of Reality is Illogical

All Western atheists hold three beliefs about the nature of reality, with each belief contradicting the others.

First, the atheist is convinced that nature has no intent, no purpose, and no design. Nature simply is and evolves without purpose.

Second, the atheist is convinced that some intellectual system - usually modern science or progressivism or both - can somehow create intent, purpose, and design. This logically contradicts the first belief. Because modern science and progressivism are a part of nature, the atheist's claim that they can somehow create intent, purpose, and design must be an illusion, since nature has no intent, purpose, or design. But the atheist is distinguished by his refusal to recognize this logical contradiction.

Third, the atheist is convinced that the reason that he is an atheist, while the rest of the world remains mired in superstition, is because he is uniquely capable of using reason to discover that the cosmos has no intent, no purpose, and no design. But again: if nature has no intent, no purpose, and no design, how is it possible for the atheist, who is himself a part of nature, to rationally discover this? How is he able to invent purpose in order to discover that there is no purpose? And again, the atheist has no real answer to this question

So why is the atheist rationally incapable of recognizing the contradiction between his belief that the cosmos has no meaning and his belief that he can somehow create meaning?

One possible answer is that the atheist does not actually believe in one or more of his three claims. Perhaps he does not really believe that nature is without purpose. Or perhaps he does not really believe that modern science or progressivism can actually create purpose. Or perhaps he does not really believe that he is a rational human being. But as anyone who has actually dealt with an atheist knows, the atheist will vehemently assert the t***h of all three of these claims. And one is forced to conclude that, if a lie detector test was given, it would reveal that the atheist does really believe all three propositions.

What this tells us is that the atheist is someone who is uniquely irrational.

III. That Theophanic Events Are Real

A theophany is an appearance of God in the world. By definition, therefore, no atheist can believe in a theophanic event. But there is a logical problem with this atheist disbelief.

From a scholarly paper written in 2012:

In the spring of 1976 at the University of Washington (the philosopher) Eric Voegelin presented a series of lectures. During one such session, Voegelin was expounding upon the crucial notion of a "theophanic event" to the utter astonishment of a world-renowned Weberian scholar in the audience. After all, as the professor remarked, how could Voegelin talk of such things in an age that Weber described as one of "disenchantment." What could Voegelin possibly mean? Voegelin's response to the professor must have seemed even more bizarre. Voegelin asked whether the professor was indeed serious about his question and really wanted to know what Voegelin meant. Or was he an "intellectual crook"? The professor, of course, vehemently denied the latter possibility and affirmed that he truly wanted to know. "Well," responded Voegelin, "that is a theophanic event!"

The rational absurdity of atheism is revealed in this exchange. It is revealed in the puzzlement of the "Weberian scholar" who both "knows" and "does not know" that it is impossible to understand at all unless that understanding transcends that is being understood. And transcendence is an attribute of God, a gift that is given to man by God. Human understanding is a theophanic event. But because the "Weberian scholar" considers himself to be a "modern man,"he is utterly opposed to Voegelin's reference to theophanic events, because "modern man" can no longer believe in such things. This is why Voegelin asks him whether he really wants to know why Voegelin believes what he believes or whether the professor is an "intellectual crook." When the professor states that he really wants to know, Voegelin points to that desire to know as an example of a theophanic event.

The atheist asserts that there is no such thing as a transcendent understanding of reality, while at the same time claiming that his own understanding is transcendent. The atheist is, as Voegelin says, "an intellectual crook."

IV. That There Is No Rational Atheist Argument

The difficulty in arguing with an atheist is that the atheist has no rational argument.

But to make this the argument is to "disrespect" the atheist and his claim to be a rational human being. And if there is one thing in which the Western atheist believes, in addition to atheism, it is in his own personal rationality. Indeed, the atheist views himself to be more rational than other people because he is an atheist.

Therefore one can only engage in a rational argument with an atheist on one of two grounds. Either one participates in the atheist lie that he has a rational argument or one "insults" the atheist by demonstrating that he does not have a rational argument. Unfortunately, most people who argue with atheists participate in the atheist lie out of a misguided sense of civility.

Now why do we say that the atheist has no rational argument?

We say this because the atheist denial of God always involves the re-appearance of God at some other level of his argument and that atheist never acknowledges this.

For example, if one argues that intent, purpose, and design are possible only if human beings are a reflection of the divine, the atheist will answer in one of two ways. Either he will insist that these human attributes can exist as the products of an entirely evolutionary process or he will agree that these human attributes do not really exist, but that we do not need these attributes to exist to be fully human.

Let us begin with the first argument, which is that these attributes can be the products of an evolutionary process. According to the atheist, evolution as a process contains intent, no purpose, and no design. And yet somehow this process produces human beings who possess these attributes. As a matter of logic, however, if the evolutionary process does not contain these attributes, then the attributes can never "evolve" out of that process.

Now the atheist will go on to argue that, because of modern science, we are now able to "understand" evolution and that this "understanding" empowers us to control evolution. However, this argument is nothing more than hand-waving. It is magical thinking. The logical t***h is that if we are the products of an entirely evolutionary process, which contains no intent, no purpose, and no design, then those attributes can never emerge as part of that process. The atheist has just re-invented God by claiming that human beings have become God by transcending the evolutionary process.

This brings us to the second atheist argument. In this case, the atheist agrees that there is no such thing as intent, purpose, or design. But he then goes on to argue that we can be fully human anyway in that we illogically believe that we possess these attributes. The problem with this argument is that the atheist himself lives as if he actually believes that he has intent, purpose, and design. In other words, the atheist who agrees that these attributes do not exist constitutes the living refutation of his own argument.

Logically speaking, if we are completely the products of an evolutionary process then we can never transcend that process. The puppet called Pinocchio can never become anything other than a puppet. Pinocchio can never become a real human being. However, the atheist believes either that the wooden puppet Pinocchio can become a human being, and thus believes in what amounts to an atheist miracle, or the atheist believes that he is really is nothing more than a puppet, while putting the lie to that belief by actually living as if he were a human being.

This is why the atheist has no rational argument.

PeterS

In meditation, you don't talk to anybody. I have neuropathy in my feet so have been doing Yoga, including meditation, because science has no answer for it. I've only been doing yoga for a month and it does help reduce the pain. So am I to attribute it to a supernatural god? Well, I haven't investigated it thoroughly but I am willing to bet that there is a natural reason why yoga works to alleviate certain types of pain.

So what is gained by our Christian Conservative friends by eliminating scientific reason and replacing it with irrational thought? Probably v**es of their fellow Christian Conservatives and little else.

Yes, the human brain is capable of thinking in the abstract but it isn't capable of creating that which can't exist. Here's an exercise in the abstract: all that is necessary for life to exist is an earth, a moon, a sun, and a god to fill in all the blanks. So what's the purpose of the universe? Why do we have a universe that creates every element found in the human body when god could do that by simply twitching his nose?

The proof that there is no god is that we have a universe that creates every condition necessary for life to exist. And what you missed is that our CC politicians weren't given a choice--its replace evolution with creationism or you won't get our v**e.

Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON

Where in the world did you get the idea that Christians eliminate science and reason and replace it with irrational thought. That is patently absurd. Good Lord, you have a one track mind.

PeterS

Why are you making evolution an atheistic argument--it's not as there are any number of theists, Christian and otherwise, who understand the principles of evolution and agree that it is the likely means for the creation of life. My Catholic mentor, who was a Biologist and very devout priest, had no problem believing that god used evolution to create life. That you and other Conservative Christians can't accept a natural reason for the creation of life doesn't mean that life wasn't created by nature only that you can't accept it...


That's false. In Base Ten mathematics 1+1=2, 3+(-1)=2, 4+(-2)=2, etc and in boolean algebra 1+1=1. So you have to know the base and the function used to find a specific answer.


So what? Life exists only when certain conditions are met--just in our mathematical example. You may have 1+1 but if we are dealing with a problem in boolean algebra then the answer is one, not two.


Isn't that what you argued when you said mater and life were presupposed in energy? All you are doing is creating a circular argument. Given that specific conditions are met, Energy=Matter=Life.


Logical nonsense to whom? Every element found in the human body was created when a star of a certain size went supernova. You're saying it's illogical for those elements to then form life? Why? We know those elements were created in a supernova and we know those elements exist in life so why is it illogical to assume that there was a natural process that used those elements to form the human body and the life within it?

mwdegutis Loc: Illinois

Hey Pete, you're the bible expert. Do you know what this "irrational faith" means?

Romans 1:18-20 (NASB)
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the t***h in unrighteousness,
19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

So, what does that mean Pete? Man does not want God to rule over him. What can be called man's willful, self-determination. Like you Pete, man somehow moves God out of his heart, even though God's existence and God's power and God's authority is clearly revealed. Like you Pete, man willfully determines to go his own way.

18b-19a "Men who suppress the t***h in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them."

The revelation of God's t***h comes in two ways—within you and evidenced to you. And there are two witnesses that every person who has ever lived has: A witness within them and a witness evidenced to them. Now the witness within is conscience. There is a God-shaped vacuum in every man's heart. John 1:9 says, “There was the true Light [Christ] which, coming into the world, enlightens every man.”

When you say that you’re an atheist Pete, you are lying. Now you may think that you don't believe in God. But, down deep, God has showed it unto you. And that's what the Bible says. Everybody comes into this world with a God consciousness. The true Light [Christ] which, coming into the world, enlightens every man.

And then there is another witness. Not only is there the witness called conscience, but there's also the witness called creation. Look again in verse 19: " God made it evident to them." How does God show it unto them?

20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

What does that mean? Well, if you have things that are made, you have to have a maker. If you have creation, you have to have a creator. You don't have to be a Ph.D. to figure that out. Don’t you see, you believe that nothing times nobody equals everything. That it all just happened. But the Bible says it's clearly seen. That's the reason the Psalmist said in Psalm 19:1, “The heavens are telling of the glory of God; And their expanse is declaring the work of His hands.”

There is the revelation of it. There is the reach of it. Everybody knows deep down that that God made it all. How else would you explain evolution is a biased guess? It is not true science. It is the next best guess of those who will not accept Almighty God. Design and designer show that there is a God.

If I were to pluck some parts from nowhere, put them in a box and shake them around and they'd become a button. Then after a while they'd become a steam gauge. Then after a while they'd become a compass. Then after a while they'd become a wristwatch. And I said that's how this watch became a watch, you would say, you're lying, that doesn't make sense. You and I are far more complicated than that wristwatch.

To think that these things happened by blind, fortuitous chance we ought to know better than that. There's the revelation of God's t***h. There is the reach of God's t***h. Every man and every woman. But here's the sad thing. You resist God's t***h Pete.

Let’s look at verse 18 again:

" The wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the t***h in unrighteousness."

Now the key word is suppress. In the King James it is t***slated hold; other t***slations it is t***slated repress, smother, stifle, hold down the t***h. That is, there is a resistance against the t***h. They do not want to know. Willful blindness is more than tragic, it is wicked. There is the revelation of God's t***h. There is the reach of God's t***h. There is the resistance of God's t***h. Man's willful, self-determination.

mwdegutis Loc: Illinois

No wonder you're so stupid. In boolean algebra 1+1=10.