buffalo Loc: Texas

You know, J, one is not going to find a so-called conservative publication that supports anything considered left-wing liberal, while one is never going to find a so-called liberal publication supporting anything considered as right-wing conservative. Neither is a conservative going to put any weight to the validity of anything considered liberal and vice-versa.

Your articles professing the failure of socialism, as exists in Nordic countries, claiming it puts social justice above individual justice is, well, bulls**t. Admitting there is more prosperity with greater e******y, lower levels of poverty, and longer life spans is more a result of Nordic culture than socialism. If that is true, what does it say about the culture of the US?

ANU PARTANEN from Finland has a different perspective. "But this vision of homogenous, altruistic Nordic lands is mostly a fantasy. The choices Nordic countries have made have little to do with altruism or kinship. Rather, Nordic people have made their decisions out of self-interest. Nordic nations offer their citizens—all of their citizens, but especially the middle class—high-quality services that save people a lot of money, time, and trouble. This is what Americans fail to understand: My taxes in Finland were used to pay for top-notch services for me.

When I lived in Finland, as a middle-class citizen I paid income tax at a rate not much higher than what I now pay in New York City. True, Nordic countries have somewhat higher taxes on consumption than America, and overall they collect more tax revenue than the U.S. currently does—partly from the wealthy. But, as an example, here are some of the things I personally got in return for my taxes: nearly a full year of paid parental leave for each child (plus a smaller monthly payment for an additional two years, were I or the father of my child to choose to stay at home with our child longer), affordable high-quality day care for my kids, one of the world’s best public K-12 education systems, free college, free graduate school, nearly free world-class health care delivered through a pretty decent universal network, and a full year of partially paid disability leave. As far as I was concerned, it was a great deal. And it was equally beneficial for others. From a Nordic perspective, nothing Bernie Sanders is proposing is the least bit crazy—pretty much all Nordic countries have had policies like these in place for years.

But wait, most Americans would say: Those policies work well because all Nordics share a sense of kinship and have fond feelings for each other. That might be nice if it were true, but it’s not, as anyone who has followed recent political debates about immigration or economic policy in Nordic countries understands. Nordics are not only just as selfish as everyone else on this earth but they can—and do—dislike many of their fellow citizens just as much as people with different political views dislike each other in other countries. As for homogeneity, Sweden already has a bigger share of foreign-born residents than the U.S. The reason Nordics stick with the system is because they can see that on the whole, they come out ahead—not just as a group, but as individuals.

That is a totally different perspective than from outsiders.

Entire article here:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/03/bernie-sanders-nordic-countries/473385/

Now, I realize The Atlantic is considered a liberal publication. But do you think that National Review or Rational Standard would allow such an article? Fortune might...

Bad Bob Loc: Virginia

tactful Loc: just North of the District of LMAO

Join the club.
I too believe what I believe.
It's not easy being or trying to be a conservative moderate?
Many times I get told I'm a liberal while other times it is said/ posted that I am or lean left when in fact t***h is I just call em like I see em.beholdin to no ideology or party, which probably makes me more of an independent than anything else.
Whom catches it from all sides.
Right or wrong but most certainly not left.
Its not easy trying or being a free thinker.

Bad Bob Loc: Virginia

If ya ain't a rabid right wacko, ya a Liberal.

Carol Kelly

Amen.

Reeb

OH! And by the way, you forgot:
THEY DON'T SPEND BILLIONS OF DOLLARS ON HOUSING, FOOD, MEDICAL, EDUCATION, ETC., ETC., ETC. ON I*****L A***NS WHO STORM THEIR BORDERS DEMANDING, DEMANDING AND DEMANDING!!!!!

Bad Bob Loc: Virginia

tactful Loc: just North of the District of LMAO

simply put extremists do nothing for me no matter the affiliation,near as I can tell so far most on the site are Americans first with a healthy dose of patriotism mixed in! the one thing I'm not seeing enough of are people supporting The Constitution the way it should be? I get the lively posts and discussion about it,unfortunately for most of us( me included) implementation and action seem to falter some except for the veterans on site.been called liberal,called left too.reality is I'm just a free thinker! only chimed in because I could relate to believing what I believe.

Nickolai

[quote=oldroy]I wonder if Democrats really know what they are digging for these days. Somehow they don't seem to understand that Democratic Socialists just isn't the name they should be using. I think they will see the Democratic word in that title disappearing and be left just with Socialists. It will pain most of them but it has to happen. Here are some words from one of my favorite people, Newt Gingrich, about the whole thing. Please notice that much of what they say goes out through Vox. That isn't Fox news, lefties.


The Democrats Have No Idea What Demons They Are Unleashing
Originally published at Fox News
The Democrats Have No Idea What Demons They Are Unleashing
A few weeks ago, a member of the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) wrote an article for Vox explaining the movement’s goals – to end capitalism and radically change America.
In normal times, the declarations of a fringe party and ideology in America would not merit much attention. However, these are not normal times. A new Gallup pollshows that more Democrats have a favorable view of socialism than capitalism.
This pattern has been building for a while. Senator Bernie Sanders took socialism mainstream in the party during the 2016 Democratic p**********l primary. Since then, Democratic Party candidates have been increasingly attaching themselves to the ideology. Most notably, a telegenic young member of the Democratic Socialists of America named Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez defeated a senior Democrat in New York’s 14th Congressional District and has since been on a whirlwind media tour, spreading the gospel of socialism.
So, the Vox article (or manifesto) is worth taking seriously.
Reading it, I was struck by two things.
First, it was remarkably honest.
The writer, Meagan Day, a member of the East Bay Chapter of DSA, explicitly debunks the apologists in the mainstream media trying to paper over the group’s radicalism. She quotes several prominent news “analysts” who argue that Democratic Socialism is just New Deal liberalism rebranded. She then dumps a bucket of cold water on them, writing, “[i]n the long run, Democratic Socialists want to end capitalism.”
In fact, she writes that the liberal, big government reforms which the movement has chosen to rally behind in partnership with the Democratic Party are simply stepping stones to this eventual goal.
“Social democratic reforms like Medicare-for-all are, in the eyes of DSA, part of the long, uneven process of building that support, and eventually o*******wing capitalism,” she writes.
This explicit goal of ending capitalism makes clear what Ocasio-Cortez meant when she said cryptically in a recent interview, that “[c]apitalism has not always existed in the world, and it will not always exist in the world.”
This is a clear threat to the system which has made us prosperous and the envy of the world, but I appreciate the honesty. Ultimately, the United States is a democratic republic. If Day, Ocasio-Cortez, and Senator Bernie Sanders want to try and convince most Americans to end capitalism and embrace a planned, totally redistributionist economy, they are welcome to use the democratic process to do so. It is up to those of us who know better to convince Americans of socialism’s folly (more on that in a later newsletter).
However, the second notable item in Day’s article suggests that Democratic Socialists don’t value democracy all that much. Day also identified herself as a staff writer at a New York-based, socialist magazine called Jacobin. In fact, several members of the Democratic Socialists of America are writers and editors at Jacobin magazine.
A magazine that would enthusiastically embrace this title is signaling that, like socialist movements of the past, the DSA is willing to drop the “democratic” part of their moniker and instead rely on the traditional method for socialist revolution – bloodshed, violence, and tyranny.
The Jacobins were the most violent and radical political group of the French Revolution. Led by Maximilien Robespierre, the group responded to a growing backlash against the revolution by executing anyone their so-called Committee of Public Safety deemed insufficiently loyal. The Jacobin clubs located throughout the country were used as a secret police force to root out dissent among politicians and the general populace alike. Historian Timothy Tackett estimates that almost 40,000 people were k**led under the Jacobin control of the French government. Many were beheaded by guillotine in a grotesque public spectacle after a show trial, and others were brutally executed with firearms. In the case of one period in the city of Lyon, people were executed en masse by cannon fire. This period of carnage was known as the Reign of Terror.
A few years ago, Callista and I saw Dialogues of the Carmelites at the Washington National Opera. It is a moving, true story of the Carmelite Nuns who refused to denounce Christ at the peak of the Reign of Terror. (The French Revolution was virulently anti-Catholic – many churches were closed and reopened as “Temples of Reason.”) The nuns were beheaded for their unwillingness to denounce their faith. Moments before the guillotine dropped, they displayed the power of God’s love by singing hymns and renewing their vows.
A few years later we visited the Picpus Cemetery in Paris. It holds the graves of the martyred nuns and more than 1,300 victims of the Terror in a six-week period of 1794. It is a very sober reminder of what the Jacobins did during the Reign of Terror. It is not a record for which any American should advocate.
Christopher Hibbert’s The French Revolution contains more vivid details of the horrors the Jacobins inflicted upon the people of France. In one instance, he writes, “a woman was charged with the heinous crime of having wept at the execution of her husband. She was condemned to sit several hours under the suspended blade which shed upon her, drop by drop, the blood of the deceased whose corpse was above her on the scaffold before she was released by death from her agony.”
Make no mistake: This is the history of violent revolution, religious oppression, and dictatorship that Jacobin magazine, the DSA, and opportunistic Democrats are embracing – whether they know it or not. Senator Sanders, and more have recently shared articles from Jacobin magazine on their social media accounts. Representative Keith Ellison once sent a Jacobin piece to everyone in Congress.
It is hard to imagine a modern-day Reign of Terror happening in America. But consider the recent phenomenon of outrage mobs on social media demanding people be fired and ostracized for expressing un-PC points of view. Think about the left-wing activists taking over classrooms to prevent conservative voices from speaking. Think about the rash of people being attacked for wearing MAGA hats. Think about the violence of A****a.
Perhaps it is not so difficult to imagine.
While I do not know Ocasio-Cortez, I have interacted with Senator Sanders numerous times in my career. He is an earnest guy, and I seriously doubt he would countenance violence in pursuit of his socialist goals.
He should keep in mind, however, that the Jacobins eventually turned on Robespierre (in fact they executed him). So perhaps Senator Sanders and the other Democrats rushing to embrace Democratic Socialism should be a little more careful about the demons they are unleashing to win e******ns.
Your Friend,
Newt[/quote]





In the 1930's as today, a key line of conservative defense against demands to do something about ine******y was the claim that nothing could be done---that is the claim-- that no policies can appreciably raise the share of national wealth that made Americans far more equal than before--and not only did not wreck the economy but set the stage for a generation long economic boom. But as we can see it is futile to think we can reform capitalism. The FDR New Deal brought broad based reforms that reduced the gap between the avearfge CEO and an Average worker to 25 to one byt today that gap is 370 to one soe we know we can't reform the system because the capitalist find a way around the regs, or get elected and overturn them reverse them but politicians to fight legislation that restores the old ways and here we are looking like America of the 1920's. Movement conservative has been anti democratic, with an attraction to authoritarianism. Beginning when The National Review praised Francisco Franko, and defended the right of southerners to disenfranchise b****s. Newt Gingrich’s attempt to strangle Medicare, George Bush’s attempt to privatize Social Security. Exactly what Adlai Stevenson had described in 1952 as the party of the reckless and embittered trying to dismantle institutions that are essential parts of of America’s social fabric. And the struggle has been about preserving our democracy as well as the social fabric. The New Deal did more than create a middle class society it also brought America closer to democracy. I believe in a relative equal society. I believe in democracy, civil liberties and the rule of law. That makes me a liberal and I’m proud of it . Movement conservatism is dominant ever where one looks.. Just as during the gilded age extreme polarization has returned. Unions beaten back to 6 % of the private sector, Vast ine******y and mal-distribution of the nation’s wealth and a huge struggle between the dominant right and the embattled left

oldroy Loc: Western Kansas (No longer in hiding)

Does your mention of ine******y have to do with the men only, or does it apply to women, also? Go ahead and answer that one, just for fun

I have to wonder if you managed to read all of Newt's little piece. I think not since you avoid these few words. A magazine that would enthusiastically embrace this title is signaling that, like socialist movements of the past, the DSA is willing to drop the “democratic” part of their moniker and instead rely on the traditional method for socialist revolution – bloodshed, violence, and tyranny. Gawdamight does it seem like you left leaners hope to keep us from seeing what you are willing to think. Maybe you should read the rest of Newt where he talks about the Jacobins and their use of the guillotine. You might learn something if you read more outside the left lean.

old marine Loc: America home of the brave

Back in they early 1960's you had a one year waiting period until benrfits kicked in. That was almost 50 years ago. I have no idea how long it takes now. I do know my premiums are close to $300 each month.

Grandpaw wouldn't touch abama's care with a 20 foot pole, said it was worthless and he was seldom wrong.

Bad Bob Loc: Virginia

Why would he Old f***, he had Medicare.

Owl32 Loc: ARK

I do not know a N**i, KKK, or WS. In fact in my 79 years I have never personally encountered one human that profess to belong to one of these groups of people and I have come in contact with 100's of souls every day that I worked.I knew them personally, as I participated in their health care.

JFlorio Loc: Seminole Florida

I agree. I have never in all my life met a w***e S*********t or Neo-N**i.

oldroy Loc: Western Kansas (No longer in hiding)

But ain't it grand to be seen like that? I sure enjoy it.