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Do you know Jesus or Darwin?
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Feb 6, 2014 15:28:20   #
Brian Devon
 
Equinoxinator wrote:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/02/04/creation-museum-debate-nye-ham/5215173/?sf22450233=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6kgvhG3AkI&list=WL0782B7761DA55AC4



I am the 3,000 year old man. I knew Jesus and Darwin personally. I can testify that they were both good men that bore no ill will towards anyone. Both were well-read for the time, didn't abuse small animals or children and flossed regularly. Darwin, being wealthier, had a better developed sense of fashion. Jesus however was much more hip with his loosely draped clothes and sandals. With whom would I rather be stuck on an island? Its hard to say. Jesus was much more compassionate but Charles had the intellect. I'm sure they both would have fascinating stories to tell around the campfire.

(apologies to Mel Brooks)

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Feb 6, 2014 17:49:53   #
rhomin57 Loc: Far Northern CA.
 
All you read of Science regarding evolution and the universe is: might, maybe, could be, suggests, may have, possibly, etc... This Science is based on Fact?
God states "I created.." meaning no mistaken about it.
One is based on physical sight and material, the other based on Faith. It's a free choice.
Should you read the Bible, you will find that there was am ancient tribe of people called Horites. They were cave-dwellers that lived on Mt. Hor, and also called Troglydites. The Holy Bible is full of what Science looks for, it's just Science is to arrogant and full of P***e to go there.
catpaw wrote:
Research done in the field has recovered proof alot closer to evolutionary teaching than creation. As to proof in the lab, midochondrial DNA research has shown that modern people are descended from earlier homonoids. The earliest beginnings of modern mankind are continuously being pushed back to earlier times. The oldest modern human remains have been carbon dated at 160-something thousand years. Prehistoric human-type fossils are rare. The world's accumulation could fit into the bed of a pick-up.
It is intriguing that these nomadic primitives left artifacts and graves that indicate a religious or spiritual belief; which indicates self-awareness, social standards and application of abstract thought and logic according to known fact and discovery--an attempt to figure things out.
Interestingly, an very early artifact is a "venus" female figure with exaggerated breasts and hips. Mother Nature? Mother Earth? In any case, an obvious association with life.
Associating the unknown to a familiar figure makes it less frightening and comprehensive.
Don't know how the sun goes across the sky? An invisible, omnipotent god with human characteristics will fill the void; until scientific knowledge comes up with the solar system and orbits.
Research done in the field has recovered proof alo... (show quote)

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Feb 8, 2014 15:10:39   #
catpaw Loc: Bakersfield, California
 
rhomin57 wrote:
All you read of Science regarding evolution and the universe is: might, maybe, could be, suggests, may have, possibly, etc... This Science is based on Fact?
God states "I created.." meaning no mistaken about it.
One is based on physical sight and material, the other based on Faith. It's a free choice.
Should you read the Bible, you will find that there was am ancient tribe of people called Horites. They were cave-dwellers that lived on Mt. Hor, and also called Troglydites. The Holy Bible is full of what Science looks for, it's just Science is to arrogant and full of P***e to go there.
All you read of Science regarding evolution and th... (show quote)


Scientific evidence is slow to catch on. It wasn't until the 1950s that plate tectonics and continental drift became scientific fact, even though any school child could see the "puzzle pieces" on a globe. Once upon a time, the world was flat and that it might be a sphere was a lunatic notion.
What was fact at the time was a God created a flat world. End of story. Nothing to explore. Nothing to consider. Even with mathmatic application to contradict the belief, it wasn't "proof;" therefore, nothing to debate.
Fortunately, human minds don't quite work that way. Once a science discovery is made, humankind will not take a step backward--it is not going to go away.

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Feb 10, 2014 14:12:56   #
Neal
 
FOXFIRE wrote:
I know Jesus Christ the Lord of lords and the King of kings and upon Jesus I depend.


narrow narrow narrow :!:

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Feb 10, 2014 14:15:42   #
Neal
 
bobgssc wrote:
Catpaw, I hope you are having a great day. So, creation is a fairy tale and evolution is scientific? Okay, let's look at a few things. First, evolution is a theory and will remain a theory because it cannot be scientifically proven any time soon. You think otherwise? Look at the "scientific method", which is the standard for "proving things scientifically". After you create your hypothesis, you have to prove it by recreating it in a laboratory environment. Of course this can be done, you start the experiment today and maybe someone in 100 million years will be able to say "look, proof of evolution". Today however, all we have is anecdotal evidence. What is the best evidence you ask? Good question. The only evidence we have is contained in what is called the fossil record. If evolution were the answer, we would expect to see animals evolve randomly with new species spaced far apart in time and of course many "link" species (half bird, half frog, or wh**ever). There should be at least one "link" between each new species and the original from which it evolved (actually, should be thousands more links than species, if you want to get technical); however, what we actually see in the record is a massive explosion of species which all date back to about the same time. Most importantly is the lack of "link" species, otherwise referred to as the missing link. To date, there have been many missing links reported but so far, they have all been found under investigation to be mistake or fraud. My favorite (and it wasn't a fraud), was the fossil that lent itself to an entire group of people... the scientists had wonderful stories of basic tool making and how they lived in communities that were the forerunners of today's cities. The only problem was that every speck of evidence was a single tooth. Okay, maybe they could figure out a lot from a single tooth; however, when it was placed under the scrutiny of animal doctors (vets) the tooth turned out to be from a common pig.
Please do a little ACTUAL research and then if you still prefer a good fairy tale, go back to your evolution story. It does show you are a person of faith, because it takes a lot of faith to believe in something which not only has no proof but the evidence available contradicts that story. Have a wonderful day!
Catpaw, I hope you are having a great day. So, cre... (show quote)


Ohhhhh - a scientist! 'Course you have more than a little trouble understanding what a theory is. What! You don't believe in theories? How about the theory of gravity?

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Feb 10, 2014 14:17:05   #
Neal
 
catpaw wrote:
If I recall the Bible correctly, I think it defines faith as belief in "things unseen." The scientific method, even when applied to evolution, doesn't work that way. It cannot accept that God did a few magic tricks and "poof," a naked couple is running around in a lush garden and being seduced by a talking snake.
Every major religion has a god or gods or goddesses with human traits and personalities. Each also subscribes that this God will k**l people if we poor mortals piss Him off. There are devout faithful today who have a mandate from God to shoot doctors in public and blow up defenseless people in market places and children in schools.
Begs the question: Did God create us in His image, or did we create God in ours?
If I recall the Bible correctly, I think it define... (show quote)


:thumbup: :thumbup: Well said, catpaw :!:

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Feb 10, 2014 14:18:33   #
Neal
 
bobgssc wrote:
My apologies, I forgot to address your statement. Yes, there are many religions, I didn't even get to the religion portion, I was simply addressing your faith in evolution. As far as those who have a mandate from God to "shoot doctors in public..." you and I both know there are unstable people in the world who do terrible things in the name of God or Allah or trees and helpless animals. Please don't try to use those poor individuals to further your own biased beliefs.


Faith? In evolution? No, no NO!! Ain't a matter of faith, sonny!

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Feb 10, 2014 14:23:31   #
Neal
 
bahmer wrote:
I know Jesus is my Lord and Savior and I will always follow Him. I also know that Darwinism is a theory that cannot be proven just as creationism cannot be proven or demonstrated any more than can evolution be demonstrated. Hence both theories depend on faith. Either the faith that through some strange coincidence of fate that life was formed on earth and that it evolved into every known tree, plan, vegetable, insect, fish, and mammal all on its own, or the faith that a creator with far more wisdom and ability that you or I created this planet and all life forms for us to enjoy. I prefer the creator over the guess work.
I know Jesus is my Lord and Savior and I will alwa... (show quote)


Guesswork?? Oh dear - another victim of our educational systems inability to teach science.

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Feb 10, 2014 14:25:41   #
Neal
 
Brian Devon wrote:
I am the 3,000 year old man. I knew Jesus and Darwin personally. I can testify that they were both good men that bore no ill will towards anyone. Both were well-read for the time, didn't abuse small animals or children and flossed regularly. Darwin, being wealthier, had a better developed sense of fashion. Jesus however was much more hip with his loosely draped clothes and sandals. With whom would I rather be stuck on an island? Its hard to say. Jesus was much more compassionate but Charles had the intellect. I'm sure they both would have fascinating stories to tell around the campfire.

(apologies to Mel Brooks)
I am the 3,000 year old man. I knew Jesus and Darw... (show quote)


Once again Brian - :thumbup: :thumbup: plus: :lol:

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Feb 10, 2014 14:34:33   #
Brian Devon
 
Neal wrote:
Once again Brian - :thumbup: :thumbup: plus: :lol:



Thanks!

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Feb 10, 2014 15:10:59   #
catpaw Loc: Bakersfield, California
 
Neal wrote:
:thumbup: :thumbup: Well said, catpaw :!:


Thank you, Neal. I should point out that my skeptisim about religious beliefs doesn't mean I scoff them. Indeed, self awareness and intellect seems to also have an innate drive to belong to something larger than ourselves, which is an integral part of the story of civilization.
I don't believe in ghosts, even though I have talked to sane, sincere, credible people who can relate a paranormal experience. I have talked to two surgeons, doctors who are in every sense scientists, who have told me of patients who suddenly heal without any explanation medical science can explain.
So, I won't deny that there are dimensions to the world that remain unexplored. However, if a medically trained surgeon is baffled, how can I take the word of a self styled theologian who claims to have all the answers?
If wearing a particular uniform or dress code or baying at the moon is a ritual that gives one comfort and sense of security, or gives one knowlege of "things unseen" then go for it; I don't care.
So, how do I explain the paranormal? I don't. When I see a stage magician make a tiger disappear, I don't fall on my knees and profess that I've seen a miracle. I wonder, "how did he do that?" I may never know.
The thing about scientific investigation, it usually uncovers more questions than answers.

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Feb 10, 2014 16:23:45   #
Neal
 
catpaw wrote:
Thank you, Neal. I should point out that my skeptisim about religious beliefs doesn't mean I scoff them. Indeed, self awareness and intellect seems to also have an innate drive to belong to something larger than ourselves, which is an integral part of the story of civilization.
I don't believe in ghosts, even though I have talked to sane, sincere, credible people who can relate a paranormal experience. I have talked to two surgeons, doctors who are in every sense scientists, who have told me of patients who suddenly heal without any explanation medical science can explain.
So, I won't deny that there are dimensions to the world that remain unexplored. However, if a medically trained surgeon is baffled, how can I take the word of a self styled theologian who claims to have all the answers?
If wearing a particular uniform or dress code or baying at the moon is a ritual that gives one comfort and sense of security, or gives one knowlege of "things unseen" then go for it; I don't care.
So, how do I explain the paranormal? I don't. When I see a stage magician make a tiger disappear, I don't fall on my knees and profess that I've seen a miracle. I wonder, "how did he do that?" I may never know.
The thing about scientific investigation, it usually uncovers more questions than answers.
Thank you, Neal. I should point out that my skepti... (show quote)


Well, you see Cats, that's one of the joys of science - there's always new research that occasionally comes up with really interesting new stuff: maybe that's what you mean when you speak of an, "innate drive to belong to something larger than ourselves."

As far as religious belief goes, I'm absolutely for it if it serves to make the believer happier! My difficulty with religion is the persistent attempts of many folks to force others to behave in accordance with their religious beliefs. The current arguments raging over gay marriage, a******n and contraception are a few cases in point.

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