Saddam needed to go. It may have been the only way. He DID invade Kuwait, remember? And I'm sure Iran was not unhappy to see him go.

For once, I agree with you, Salty. Thanks for the comment.

And if you look deeply at history, you can see that the Mongol (and the Turkish) conversions to Islam softened the harshness of their conquests.

Without Islamic emphasis on learning, the works of classical Greece would not have been made available to Europeans. The Byzantine emperor Justinian outlawed the works of Aristotle:

"...all histories of intellectual thought mention with varying degrees of outrage that Emperor Justinian closed down the Athenian Academy in 529AD. [Mohammed was born in 570 AD.] This, we are told, was the official end of pagan philosophy and the last light to be put out in Europe as the Dark Ages closed in. The professors who had taught at the Academy left the Byzantine Empire for Persia where they were welcomed by the Shah. Thus, the enlightenment of the east contrasted with the shadows that Christianity had thrown in the west." From here: http://www.bede.org.uk/justinian.htm

Because of Abbasid Spain, and its tolerance of Jews and Christians, great and creative thinking took place---Avicenna, Avveroes and Maimonides. Aquinas read the works of those thinkers, I'm sure, and thus was able to make Aristotle palatable to the Church in the 13th century, from which eventually the European Age of Exploration and Renaissance was born. (After the decline of Scholasticism).

The Germanic barbarian invasions did have a purpose, in the long term scheme of things, however. They brought new vigor into a decayed culture, and allowed experimentation in different types of government. Without feudalism, we would not have federalism.

And the Catholic Church also had a purpose: it was the sole institution that kept the European subcontinent united---in language, some customs, and religion---when it was pressured by invasion.

They Byzantine emphasis of the union of church and state was a fault, and proved disastrous.

Saddam had to go. He WAS a bloody tyrant, and he was intent on manufacturing WMD. Yet, he was at least brought to a court of law, where he was sentenced to hang. Not so with Qaddafi. Egypt has become a country headed by a military government. A military government, because at times that is the only method that can provide stability.

The belief, promulgated by some TV hosts, that Muslims will come to this country and institute Sha'ria Law all around the United States is patently absurd.

The following is from a PM conversation I had with another poster. After thinking about it, I decided to post it where all the world can read it.

I prefer that you do not respond; you need to think about it before responding with blatant feelings of superiority. I may, however, add to it from time to time.

It is this:

I've heard that before, American women who marry Muslims. It is something a woman should know about the Muslim culture BEFORE she marries into it. I believe that in many of the Muslim countries the male dominance of the family is getting less severe. It is something that needs to change gradually. Women in Muslim countries are becoming less dependent on their men and are taking active roles in government, business and education. Of course, the American culture of matriarchy that has developed over the last few decades is not good for society either.

The decadence in American society, is anathema to Muslims. I don't blame them much for that. Last week I had lunch at a Middle Eastern restaurant, run by a Christian Arab, born in Baghdad, who had lived in Aleppo the last few years, but immigrated to America. Her TV was tuned to an Arab channel--from Lebanon, I believe. The music videos showing weren't much different from something you might see Beyonce in. I don't wonder that Muslims who are true to their faith are worried.


And:

I take it then that you have never discussed religion with a Muslim.

Mohammed was able to take a pagan and animistic culture, probably when all is said and done, worse even than the Canaanites of Biblical history in its attention to ritual and dark demons, and convince them to "submit to the one God"; something neither Christianity nor Judaism could do. So I say: "Quite an accomplishment, Mohammed!"

Allah enjoined those proud, passionate Arabs, AT THAT TIME, to eliminate any "unbelievers"---the pagans and animists, not the "Children of the Book" (Christians and Jews, who were NOT considered "unbelievers")---if they would not profess a belief in one God: Allah. The same goal God wanted King Saul to accomplish in the land of Canaan. That the Arabs conquered many lands after that was due to man's interpretation, (and probably that passionate nature of the Arabs), not God/Allah. The whole world can not and should not be Muslim, any more than it should be Christian, or Jewish, or Buddhist, etc. Islam has made great contributions to art and science and literature, but especially medicine, and more, before the Near and Middle East became stagnant, not because of their religion, but because of empire---the Ottoman empire---a Turkish people, not Arabic. All empires eventually decay. Even the Roman empire, which was Christian at the time of its fall.

But until Christians lose their arrogance, bias and fears, they will never believe there is any good in Islam at all. There is no point in discussion.

I have never said I was Christian, nor am I Muslim. But I can find some good in every religion (except those based on magic and ritual, not on reality). Just as I can find some bad.

For instance, my favorite hadith of the prophet Mohammed is this:

Someone asked him (keep in mind that full acceptance of the one God, Allah, hadn't been completed) if he should tether his camel or trust in Allah. Mohammed replied, after a few moment's thought: "First tether your camel, then trust in God". He was teaching personal responsibility to a people who probably relied on offerings, ritual and sacrifice to MANY gods to accomplish their goal: control of their environment. Muslims find it hard to relate to Christianity, which is seen as the worship of more than one god.

Good points. And drop the God-awful American (and Christian) arrogance.

American "humanitarian aid" is a thing of the past; Leftist/Liberals have made problems in America the ONLY conflict that Americans should be worried about.

Do you know why God chose the land of Canaan for the Israelite's homeland? That particular geographical area was the main trade route between west and east, Egypt---North Africa and others, and Syria---Babylon---Anatolia and others. He wanted that area under the supervision of a monotheistic religion, before the pagans and animists could bring ruin to it. He also wanted humans to see the value of trade and commerce, as opposed to conflict. Perhaps that is why Jews today are proponents of commerce. (Mohammed, I believe, was also a trader).

And it is why that same geographical area is under siege today. The variety of peoples and religions, the source of oil as trade currency, its value in trade routes. Conflicts there have nothing to do with centuries-old Biblical prophecy.

The Russian Federation is the last hope for the world. Ever heard of Edgar Cayce? I don't intend quoting him as a reference, but YOU might get something out of his prophecy regarding Russia.

Assad is a good man; he was given an impossible job. The Ovomit administration's injunction that he needed to step down was an abomination. If he hadn't stuck it out, as he has done---now with Putin's help---even knowing what America had done to Qaddafi and Libya, Egypt, Tunisia, the world would now be in a lot worse shape. Especially Israel and the threat that the Islamic State of Nowhere (ISIS) bears to it.

It has already been ordained, lj.

I will only listen if you, or others, have legitimate and appropriate questions.

Well, you just go ahead and do that. Except please don't "...pull out the heavy stick...etc." You can, but only at the direction of Vladimir Putin and myself. It is why I work with Putin; we will get things done, as we have been doing for about a year and a half.

In addition, there is still too much divisiveness in America. America has to solve its internal problems before it can help others.

Penis envy, frosty? Is that what you have?

You and I agree on a lot of things, ee. That is one of them.

I'm going to unwatch this thread. I can't take his comments. They are not for the company of decent people.

Progressive One is a sickening example of the human race. That is all I have to say. Too bad he is allowed on this site.