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Posts for: Floyd Brown
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Apr 12, 2014 13:16:09   #
Zephyr wrote:
Hi. I'm Zephyr. I look forward participating in the spirited conversations here. I just recently registered in the US as an Independent due to my absolute dissolution with most parties. While I find some sometimes have good to offer, the majority of their work is of self-interest.
- I'm not a tea-partier but I do believe we have to do something to control the ridiculous spending.
- I'm not a Republican but I do believe people need to always be looking for ways to support themselves and not rely on government.
- I'm not a Democrat, but I do believe certain people have no choice to rely on government assistance - if only temporarily.
- I'm not in the Green Party, but I do believe we need to do everything we can to protect the environment.
So what does that make me?
Thanks in advance for your help, we'll see you in the forums... :)
Hi. I'm Zephyr. I look forward participating in th... (show quote)


Say what you will. Share with us your wisdom or what ever you have on your mind. We will let you know if it is wisdom or not.

Agree where you agree, but be sure to disagree respect fully

.
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Apr 12, 2014 13:07:27   #
jonhatfield wrote:
The political twistings and various agendas and extremisms make honest discussion of issues problematical. On the other hand, the twistings themselves are fascinating in themselves...and sometimes extremes of sides in issues give occasion to new aspects that can lead to larger insights or at least larger understandings.


Yes people feel strongly about things. Perhaps too strongly.

But when dealing with those that we have in them or they in us little in agreement we can look for any little point that we or they can agree on.

Once that is done one may find that the are more areas that each can be comfortable with.
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Apr 12, 2014 12:12:53   #
jonhatfield wrote:
I don't quite understand the larger picture with money and value and bankers, but the general idea is most interesting even if I can't understand the mix of words. Thanks for the general idea. :thumbup: :lol:


It is an issue that we all need to take to heart & include becoming more versed in what is truly happening.

I know you & Patty are not endeared to each other but she does have her ear to much of what is going on in the world.

Exchanging post with her is not a bad idea. A bit misguided on some issues but she does do her home work.

All in all Patty is one to carry on & exchange ideas with.

After all if we are in agreement with each other we don't broaden our self much.

I feel that if we can truly get to the heart of what others believe it can only help us see things more cleanly. Even in areas we disagree.
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Apr 12, 2014 12:09:20   #
Tasine wrote:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How well I know. I got scolded by some republican "conservatives" because I didn't vote for Romney or Obama, but voted my principles - individual liberty by virtue of candidate, Gary Johnson. They accused me of "electing Obama". Go figure ~


Some how the words you just used is a message that needs to get out to those who would be a part of government.

I would put it this way:

We as voters are looking to elect people who will stand on their principals & vote on those principals.

But we as voters need to vote on our principals & not on what the elected person can do for us.
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Apr 12, 2014 12:01:11   #
alex wrote:
I fail to understand the difference between the value of money and what it will buy, it seems to me the value is determined by what it will buy


I say the difference is just the order you put the words in.

The value most put on money is it's so called value.

The value of what you & I get for our money is what it gives it value.

So money gets it value from what each of us values it in what we buy with it.

You will have to tell me if that makes any sense to you.

But all in all some where in that mix of words is what we both are trying to get to.
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Apr 12, 2014 11:50:47   #
Bigmac495 wrote:
Maybe the value of money isn't important to you, but it sure is to a lot of us! The value of money directly causes the cost of living to rise as it's value goes down! Guess what the U.S. government is and has printed money to pay it's bills.
It's a round about way so you don't see it happening , or know where it went. You say the flow of money is the most important? The flow to where it goes sure does make a huge difference and if it goes into somebody's pocket how does that help, the nation? I don't know how many times I have to say this, but the reason the dollar was the worlds standard was that it was backed up with gold bullion. That is no longer the rule because that law was repealed several years ago, that was the reason the U.S. was the only country that could print it's own money and each dollar had a value unto itself. GOLD! Now what makes our dollar worth more than some countries dollar , Euro, peso ? Nothing!
Maybe the value of money isn't important to you, b... (show quote)


There is not now & never really was a single best backing for money.

It is & always will be on faith & trust. It is just what or who do we trust to put the value on money.

I say that it is & always will be the faith & trust we have in each other.

We need that faith & trust in what ever we use in how we exchange value with each other. It could even be rocks.

But paper money & numbers in computers work better.

The money this country uses is based on debt. If the US just printed it's money & forgot about the Fed we would not have a debt that we pay interest on. The money would still be based on the faith and trust in the US. Leaving a lot of money to do other things with.

We are all held hostage by the money changers.

If there is any over riding issue we need to agree on it is what is to be done with how much it cost us to have some thing to use in our transactions with each other. All we need is some thing that we agree on that keeps a stable rate of exchange.

I feel that the issue of money changers is one that needs to be high on our list of key interests.
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Apr 12, 2014 11:17:56   #
Patty wrote:
:thumbup: There is no "Just us" system any longer. Everything is decided on how it increases their career to move up the ladder. From prosecution wins to paid off judges to benefit the private prison stocks. Its all rigged.


Private prisons.

That is another thing we should do with out.
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Apr 12, 2014 10:50:59   #
Patty wrote:
:thumbup: :thumbup: First thing we should probably do is check to see if my 3rd grade Home ec. teacher is still alive and willing to go to Washington to explain basic economics to the Washingtonites.


One thing that is comforting is that for the most part we are a nation of good people. Some & maybe all of us are a bit misguided.

We. The most of us need to find ways to counteract the few that cause the most problems.

We do need a revolution but it need not be a violent one.
With in the frame work of our government is the means to bring this about.

There needs to be a United effort on our part to get a message across of what we as the voters would like done.

An issue like our system of money & debt is one that holds us like slaves to the system.

We must not be divided on this issue.
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Apr 12, 2014 10:36:59   #
maelstrom wrote:
I believe we've made two major mistakes, firstly being convinced to have private capitalists control our treasury and second getting off of backing our currency with gold.



The private Federal Reserve pays no taxes and reports to no one. Thus, John Rockefeller and his heirs and assigns, have a cash flow each year equal to a good percentage of the American gross national product and that would be enough to buy out British Petroleum and Royal Dutch Shell, even if Standard Oil was broken into smaller pieces.
Read more at
http://investmentwatchblog.com/who-started-the-federal-reserve/#LRB6owEi21Ek3H2i.99
I believe we've made two major mistakes, firstly b... (show quote)


Okay with the first part.

On the issue of the gold standard I say it can be played to the advantage of those that have the gold.

I say that the US should bypass the Fed & just pay its bills with money it prints. Being sure to have enough but not to much of it. The country would not be any worse off than it has been & we would save a lot of money now going to the Banking interests & who ever holds the bonds

We need to end the debt base backing of money.
Those that control the money control the people.

A system that is backed by the good faith & trust in our nation.

Money that in effect we are buying.

What ever money the US government printed would still be backed by the good faith & trust in the US

Be assured that messing with those that control the money will not just step aside.
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Apr 12, 2014 10:20:02   #
Patty wrote:
I completely understand what you are saying but what is missing is that 80% of the USD is outside the US. When you make M1 adjustments to money here it effects emerging markets whos economies may be -100X's what the US economy is and taking all that cheap money away the investors scatter and leave that country in economic rubble.
Being a country of importers when you crush the emerging markets it comes back home to haunt you. The world is not contained within the borders between Canada and Mexico.
Adjusting the growth of the money supply sets off multiple reactions, some of which can come back to bite. Suppose, for example, that the taper proceeds with such a light touch that the US economy doesn't tank. But that won't be the end of the story. Stock and bond markets in most countries have been living on the Fed's money printing. The touch that's light enough for the US markets might pull the props out from under foreign markets—which would have consequences for foreign economies that would feed back into the US through investment losses by US investors, loan defaults against US lenders, and damage to US export markets.
I completely understand what you are saying but wh... (show quote)


This issue is complex & needs to held to be perhaps the most important issue facing us.

What makes it hard is so many use the money to game the system for their personal gain. When it's basic use is to oil the wheels of commerce.
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Apr 12, 2014 10:09:07   #
Tasine wrote:
Good idea Floyd!
My question to the group is:
1. What is the difference in a "right" and a "privilege"?


This may be hard.

We have the right of free will. Do do what ever we wish.
We can do this an individual or as a group.

That being said we as members of a group set guide lines on what individuals can do. Acts that can be punished for acts not in the best interest of the group.

Any acts not punishable would be left as a privilege. As groups get bigger rules or laws are set down listing the different actions & steps to be taken.

There are many benefits or privileges to being part of a group. Those benefits or privileges may well be worth more that some freedoms.

But there may those that hide behind so called freedoms that have come to be seem as privileges.

There are those that seek power & use it against others by denying rights & privileges of others.

This is done by some who would extend the freedom of the market place & control of governments to the few who control the money supply & much of government.

As groups get larger & more complex so do the laws & rules.

At this point in time we have to treat the world as one complete group in putting down rules & laws.

It is the hope that we can come to the proper balance to have the fewest restrictions on every body.

This is a ruff outlook but I hope you can flesh it out in a way that you could live with.
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Apr 12, 2014 01:42:11   #
Patty wrote:
The problem is the G20 gave a very clear warning last year that if they didn't quit devaluing that they would dump it. If they quit printing they face defalation like in the 30's. Deflation is what scares the government most because it creates a way for purchasing power to go up without tax advantages.
For example if I make 100,000 a year and inflation is working for them then it whittles away at my savings and increases taxes advantage. If deflation happens and I make 100,000 then my money buys more they get the same taxes and if dollars become more valuable people start saving again. That is the problem they are facing.
Floyd I don't believe there will be a free market till they break up the big banks but with derivatives at over 650 trillion they will do what they have to do to keep that fake money maker going.
The problem is the G20 gave a very clear warning l... (show quote)


The value of dollars we have isn't what we need to worry about. It is what those dollars can buy us that really matters.

If we can adjust to the decrease in the value of the dollar & keep much the same standard of living it is no big thing.

But because of fractional banking some more people fall behind every time there is a down turn in the economy.

I think that one should explore what is need to start a private bank that would only loan out it's actual assets.

I think State banks can do that.

We need a safe place where people can store their money & make a bit on it with out a lot of risk. It could protect assets of people who would expect a bit less for their money.

I hope that you can make a bit of sense with what I am trying to say.
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Apr 11, 2014 20:51:38   #
Tasine wrote:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Great idea. Sounds so sincerely political correct. I think I can assure you that it MAY work, given several decades, but it won't happen that way during my lifetime, not in your lifetime, and probably not in your grandchildren's lifetimes.

Got any ideas for NOW?

I do, but nobody wants to hear them, nobody wants to work at it, nobody is interested if it involves them having to DO something or having to PAY for it.

All we really need to do is slap the federal government silly and tell them and show them that they are not our masters, that we PEOPLE pay them to do a job and they'd jolly well better get busy doing it. We will tell them that all of our liberties are sacrosanct and that THEY WILL NOT TOUCH THEM NO MATTER HOW MUCH THE LEFT HOWLS IN PROTEST. There is no wrangling re our freedoms, our rights, no compromise - they don't own them; ergo they cannot give or promise them away. We need to force feed the US Constitution to the left and to Congress (one and the same) and make them postpone writing another single law until they can answer any question put to them about the US Constitution. We should insist any law written WILL be checked for Constitutionality BEFORE it becomes law, and no law will comprise more than one page, and it will be written in readable and understandable English. We should insist the archives be lessened by at least a ton. We need to tell them they can serve two terms, then it is OUT without retirement and without perks. We should tell them they will cut their staffs by 1/2 and everybody in DC will have his salary stuck where it is until further notice.

That would be the preamble to their service if I were in charge.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ br Great idea. Sounds so si... (show quote)


The big hold is finding enough people to shift the balance away from a 50/50 mix.

We need to find away to shift the balance of what we propose from both sides of an issue.

The need is to shift 3% or 4% from one side of an issue to the other side.

One thing is to poll people on this site as to where they stand on a certain issue. If issues were presented & there could be a shift one way or the other we might be on to some thing.

If we present an issue we each should be willing to except the other side of the issue.

You see to be firmest in you views so maybe you could go first.
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Apr 11, 2014 18:24:04   #
Patty wrote:
I don't know if you are talking about 2008 that is only a papering over of the still existent crisis.
If you are talking about the last near (1 of 3. 1914,1939 and 1979)collapse of the USD it was actually Swiss Francs backed US treasury bonds that were printed and backed by. The USD dropped purchasing power by half between 77-81 and inflation was 50% during those years. That is why the IMF had to come up we SDR's and flood the global market with over 12 billion dollars to give countries a trusted currency to continue global trade. This happens about once every 40 years but this time it will be like no other because the ability for the fed to print our way out of it will not work twice. They blew their shot with the over 4 trillion printed this time.
I don't know if you are talking about 2008 that is... (show quote)


The value of the money isn't most important issue. That there is enough of what ever value out there to needed to
keep the wheels turning.

The closer to the proper amount of cash flowing is what is most important. Not to much & not to little.

The US could just print the money it need to pay its bills.
If it did that it would still be the same issue that the money would be backed by the full faith & trust that it is now.
But with out paying any interest on it.

If people thought that the value wasn't there they would just bill the government more. or the government could by less.

The free market would truly be free then.
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Apr 11, 2014 17:42:23   #
Tasine wrote:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Every word you have written is absolutely true!!!!!!!! We can DO something about the corrupt officials. I propose we quit hiring corrupt people. What do you propose we do instead?


That being said what do we use to buy of at least give to people to do our bidding?

Let just face it we the general public will never have what it takes to compete with Big Money.

About the only thing we have is votes. If we are split 50/50 we can never have any one waste their time with us.

If we could ever agree say 70/30 It would get attention.

May be 60/40 could make it happen.

53/47 is considered a land slide by the winners.

So this is a race that will take time to work it's self out.

It will work if we can find one issue at a time to catch the eyes of those in power.

Issues that we here see eye to eye on & take it to other sites & see if it catches on. Or other sites & bring issues here.

We can never win a head to head all issues fight.

But it would be best not to look at it as a fight.
Just as an issue that could be changed or made better.

It is a simple as just agreeing with things you can agree with & disagreeing or not supporting issues you wish not to support. To be true to you self at all times. If you start trading support you just carry on what is going on now.
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