I agree 100% and I have always said that.

Parties get used by plutocrats like horses get used by gamblers. It's basically a betting system. So, while both parties are running laps, the plutocrats are placing bets on which party will give them the best return on their investment, so it might be one horse today, another horse tomorrow.

You probably won't like what I have to say next but I think on this particular "day" the Republicans are a better bet for the plutocrats that have a conflict of interest with the American people.

LOL - Well, you got a point there.
Huh.
So, we're does that leave things if in a two-part process, only one part fires?

I guess, that would leave the clown impeached and in office, like an ugly version of Bill Clinton that has to spend money to get a chick.

Of course the lawyers will argue that the clips from the witness testimonies in the hearing count. It's funny, the lawyers aren't even that good - in fact they really suck but it doesn't matter because the senators have already made up their minds. It's such a parallel to Trump and the state of the Union which Obama left in such good shape that even a monkey could be president for a while and look good doing it.

That's a very good point stiff... and important to understand too. I think the era of nationwide cable news has allowed us to forget the significance of local politics but I think that too is changing since Trump's overreaching of executive power has run into unprecedented defiance from local governments across the country.

More like, we got everything we need from the "trial". No need to continue the circus.


Which republic are you talking about?


Then stop supporting them.


Well, I hope so... it's been a while since me and my mob had a cause to dance in the streets.

No pain - no gain. ;)


I hope we don't see another 2008 either - that economic crash was pretty bad. I'm glad Obama stepped in to save us. ;)

We ARE still under the Obama economy. Do you think the economy stops and starts every time we get a new president? The economy basically drives itself... the only time a president gets involved is when a crisis warrants government intervention. Obama had to do that in his first term because Bush crashed it but that's the last time the government got involved... it's been hands off ever since.


Well... I watch CNN about as often as I watch Fox and that's not often. I'm one of those people who actually read newspapers and I don't need to wish for anything to make Trump look bad - he does quite well with that on his own.


I agree and I credit my own optimism for a lot of my success in life. But keep in mind how relative the world can be... I'm betting I was more optimistic about Obama than you were - and here you are expecting me to be optimistic about Trump.

Optimism... lol - Ya know what pisses conservatives off more than anything else? My optimism about a progressive America.

I do agree that it's important to hear from witnesses, but at this point, I don't think there is ANYTHING they can say to change the minds of the Senate Republicans who will vote to acquit anyway. This stopped being a real trial the moment McConnell announced that the Senate will coordinate fully with the White House.

The Senate takes the role of jury in this process... when a jury says they will cooperate fully with the defendant we know it's not a real trial.

The Democrats did their part - the Republicans refused to do theirs - The End.

As for America's future, we need to understand that Trump isn't so much the problem as he is a symptom of the problem. I don't think taking him out while leaving Pence in will help our future in the least. I think a better move for our future is to let the Republicans deny the American people the fair trial promised by our Constitution and let that sink in.

America's future is being threatened by a nebulous plutocracy that is using the Republican Party as their political arm. Trump is just another one of their puppets. The Republican mockery of due process is already a bigger win in our fight to save our future than removing a puppet could ever be.

Well, you ask a really good question Rose...

I look at the field (Trump AND the Democratic candidates) and I can't help but ask the same question. I think ANY of the Democratic candidates can do better than Trump but that isn't really saying much. I think Biden has the experience and the connections to bring America back to its former place as a respected player in world politics (we kinda lost that under Trump), but if you're talking about the domestic reforms that the American people desperately need then, we probably DO need someone less moderate and that presents a problem I'm not sure America is ready for... It gets back to your concern about "righting" America. I honestly don't think Americans can agree on what that even means.

I think we've been dealing with "same-old politics" from moderate politicians for so long simply because we can't agree on ANY real change. The last domestic reform was the ACA and THAT turned into a bitter war that crossed all kinds of lines.

You folks keep saying that. You sound almost as assured as the Democrats were in 2016. ;)

Look, I'm not making any predictions about the future... All, I'm saying is that it would be better to let the people remove Trump from office through an election than to have Congress remove him through impeachment.

What I WILL say about the November elections is that current stats (including polls and voter registrations) indicate a Republican win in 2020 would be more of an upset than a guarantee but anything can happen right?

Will I be hit hard by it if Trump wins a second term? Probably not. I've never been dependent on the government for much and I'm a straight white male with a fair amount of cash in the bank. I might be disappointed in the election but then again, I am pretty certain that the economy will take a dive within the next 5 years and I'm going to love watching Trump deal with a real problem for the first time in his life.

I would go so far as to say that even better than an impeachment now... even better than a defeat in November, would be the exposure of his incompetence in the face of an actual crisis, if it takes another term to get there - it would almost be worth it, just so I can log back in and say... "I told you so".

So... I'm hoping for an acquittal ASAP. Today would be great.

The Democrats did what they had to do. They impeached Trump for his abuse of power and obstruction of Congress. That alone restores faith in the party with their supporters knowing they can trust them to do the right thing. No one is expecting them to do the impossible.

And to the Republicans... Well, thank you for everything! Not only did you produced a treasure trove of quotes and arguments that can be used against you for years to come, but you avoided Trump's removal from office which would have made a "martyr" of him while leaving us with Pence. Ugh!

Far better to vote the clown off the island in November! This is what Pelosi kept saying all those other times she resisted the demand to impeach. I wonder if she knew McConnell would do anything to keep Trump in office.

Meanwhile, over the course of the trial, Trump's approval rating has declined and the elections are only 11 months away. It really couldn't be any better.

So, let's wrap this up!

It's called "snow". ;)

Exactly!

LOL - What do *I* think? Well, I wouldn't worry about it. I've been posting here as long as you have and I've received plenty of such PMs from uptighty-righties. The fact that you never had this happen until now tells me that the left is far more restrained than the right is. (cue outrage).

OK, partisan digs aside... This is a political site, "spoonwalker" - people are going to get pissed off. Just ignore them.

The most obvious being a reverence for humanity.

First of all, the human sh*t on the sidewalks isn't as widespread as you wish it were. In fact, I still haven't seen any in the all the 46 years I've lived there. I only know it's there from the reports.
Secondly, the only reason why any of it is there at all is because of the Republicans in city councils that consistently vote against liberals on things like shelters and rent control. So you picked a really bad example to make your case.


Again, your fantasies don't match reality but if it makes you feel any better, the state does start to smell pretty bad when you drive through the valley where all the livestock is, but then again, I smell that whenever I drive through a red state.


OK... if you actually think the wash from sidewalks can even hold a candle to the massive shit trenches in the farmlands you're gravely mistaken.


Everyone's backyard is a biohazard willy, the difference is a matter of degree. Look, if you're trying to make this about CA vs the red states, you're wasting your time. CA is one of the highest producing agriculture states in the union AND home to more Republicans than ANY other state. Drive into the San Joaquin Valley and you're essentially IN a red state.

That being said, I am fully aware of the watershed problems in CA. Fortunately, the state also has a lot of mountains with ice packs on the very edge of the watersheds that supply drinking water to the population BEFORE it get's contaminated by the farms in the lowlands. So the problem for CA isn't quite as bad as it is for a state like Texas which for the past 10 years has had the nation's most polluted drinking water according to the EPA when it was still allowed to publish reports.

So if you want to get back at me ('cause ultimately, I know you want to) at least pick something real. Instead of these unrealistic images of shit-plastered streets, why not pick the sewage that drains from the cities? At least that's a significant cause of water pollution. Of course even then - it's not as bad because most of the major cities are on the coast so there is no downstream to speak of.

Water has been a problem in the west forever, which is why we have some of the most amazing feats of engineering to solve water problems such as the California Aqueduct... a water conduit that uses gravity to move water over 400 miles - AROUND the watershed.

The only reason why I suggested the Mississippi Watershed is because it's the largest one where I'm sure MOST of the farmers are and since THEY are the one's who are always fighting environmental regulations, I thought it would be a nice idea to let them have their way but to keep it contained in their own region so other people don't have to suffer from their self-centered decisions.


That's the most hypocritical thing I've heard all day ;)