I agree!

I'm glad you can see my point and yes, it would apply to Obama also. I just didn't see him or his supporters gravitating to the idea that he was some kind of supreme leader to pledge allegiance to.

As for Obama fundamentally changing the country...

I believe his contribution toward the racist society we see today was simply being born half black. I was living in South Carolina when Obama was elected the first time and I remember the reaction among the people there and thought - where did all this racism come from? I think most Americans know it wasn't Obama's words or actions that created the racial rift, it was the people who have been racist all along and got all worked up when a black man stepped into the Oval Office.

As for the socialist utopia. That's typical right-wing drama. Regarding economic policy, Obama was far closer to Reagan that even Sanders. Obamacare, for instance is a market driven system, not a socialist one, with the exception being the public option.

I will concede that in general, Democrats are more socialist-friendly. And certainly the call for socialism is on the rise as is always the case when Americans start losing out to the pyramid scheme that capitalism becomes if not sufficiently managed.

But I am finding that most Trump supporters have no clue what socialism is, other than something their thought leaders tell them to avoid at all costs. I know the common cud is that somehow socialism is linked to Stalinism, but it's really not.

What I want (and I think I speak for a LOT of Democrats) is a hybrid system like what we see in Germany, where the market is open for all goods and services but the government should be allowed to provide socialist options (such as the public option) for human critical services that offer little to no profit.

...and when I say "socialism", I am not referring to communism or any of its implementations ie,.. Stalinism, Leninism, Maoism or even the Israeli Kibbutz system. Nor am I referring to right-wing socialism, otherwise called nationalist socialism (Nazism).

I am referring to Democratic Socialism.

Donald,

You are NOT my leader. You are the elected head of the Federal Government, which *is* the nation's largest employer so you DO lead a lot of people, but I am not one of your employees nor is the vast majority of the American people.

We are a free country and our president's only become leaders of our nation when they inspire our nation. That's how it's done. And even then, you are only leading those who follow you. But there are no actual rules that make you the leader of the American people simply by winning an election.

We certainly don't have to do what you tell us to do. Your executive orders only apply to your employees. The rules that apply to us (AND TO YOU) come from Congress. The rules that apply to Congress comes from the U.S.Constitution. If there is any dispute about the rules, the courts will figure it out, not you.

All this being said...

We didn't need you to force your security agents to risk their lives and the lives of their families by exposing them to the virus that we all know you carry just so you can strut around in front of cameras to show how "strong" our "leader" is.

I'm not fooled by all your posing into thinking you're "strong". I've had four years of watching you behave to know that if anything, you are a weak person.

And again... You are certainly not my leader. So get back to bed... Do what the doctor tells you to do... And get better so you can get to work. Remember, I am a citizen, therefore I am YOUR boss, YOU work for ME.

...At least, until we fire you.

Say's the guy who racks up 14,693 posts in two years compared my 7,448 posts over seven years. LOL


No, you didn't explain them. Just blaming Democrats for screwing black people isn't the same as explaining how it was done. Just saying it was done through liberal policies doesn't explain it either. You don't need to spend much time on it. You either know or you don't. If you have to google for conservative opinions on the matter, it means you don't know.

I mostly play guitar, banjo and bouzouki and yes, I sing. Things were more exciting when I was playing in rock bands but you get to certain age where it just looks stupid... unless your the Rolling Stones. So I switched to something more traditional and I've really come to love it.

Not much business right now thanks to COVID-19 but we've done several remote "concerts" which isn't the same thing and it doesn't pay. We miss the pubs.

How would you know if you don't have the time to pick through it?


Well, you did say... "I started a security business in San Francisco". Of course a business can have clients all over the place. Mine did too but they were all in cities because my clients were all Fortune 500 companies. I noticed you made a point of saying you had a contract in rural Illinois farm country. Was that your one and only contract in the fly-over zone? Protecting the chickens from the foxes? ;)


A tiny percentage of the black community seems to have fallen into the same BS you have. It happens.


That's because the practice of incarcerating as many black people as possible didn't kick in until the "Great Society" made them a threat to white supremacy. When you have a large percentage of black men in prison, children grow up fatherless.

Everytime liberals secure rights for black people, conservatives come up with a new tactic to maintain superiority. When the Radical Republicans liberated them from slavery, conservative Democrats came up with Jim Crow laws. When LBJ gave them equal rights, conservatives switched parties and adapted more covert methods through economic oppression and policing.


So far you haven't provided a single explanation or example to show how Democrats have made things worse for black people. Do you think you can do that or is wide sweeping generalizations and stereotypes the best you can do?


Oh... Well that's in direct contrast to what you said earlier... what was it? Oh yeah... "what you serve up is a brand of bullshit all its own."

So, what made you change your mind? Or can you just not keep up with your own tap dancing?

So you held some corporate jobs and started a business. Kudos! As someone who did the same thing I know it can be a challenge.


Well, that hasn't been my experience. I've spent a lot of time with urbanites in NYC and SF too, both business and pleasure and I KNOW a lot of them think they're at the center of the universe.

Quick joke... In NYC, people say "NYC is the center of the universe." In LA, people say... "there's a universe?"

But, I've also spent time in the fly-over zone and even northern Nevada (my friend's uncle had a ranch outside of Reno) I did not really find any difference. Country folks often talk down about city slickers. Honestly, I don't even need that experience in the fly-over zone, I can see it right here on this thread.

I think the most common thing that the country folks I've met like to laugh about is how urbanites can't do anything for themselves. Well, cities probably do make that more possible because cities have services for just about everything but that's because you have a lot more entrepreneurship. You ought to know, having started a security business in SF. Would you have done that in middle of Kansas?

But even so, that doesn't mean everyone in the city is like that. Cities have a tremendous scope of diversity from junkies to the most battle-hardened police officers you will ever see. Of all the demographics possible "urbanites" is probably among the most ambiguous.


Aw... c'mon Seth - don't be mad. We don't think that at all. I think you're confusing two individual issues. Urbanites are more likely to follow a liberal ideology that takes advice from science. Ruralites are far more likely to follow a conservative ideology that will shun man's constantly changing "science" as an afrontage to their traditions.

The problem is that the warnings of science often warrant a unified and sometimes urgent response. In these situations one man's refusal to heed the scientific warning can lead to disaster for many others. This often triggers an understable frustration with the scoffers and a somewhat condescending "explanation" of the situation. This will no doubt create the kind of taste in your mouth that you seem to be describing.


Sometimes, I wonder if your not doing that "mirror" thing where you just pick up the liberal criticisms and send them back the other way. LOL

In my opinion, the Republicans are more likely to "rule by theory". I mean c'mon... the Laffer Curve?


Yeah, the basic translation there is blame the Democrats for the social programs that make people dependent and lazy, blah, blah, blah. More theory. The reality is the right is so scared of democratic socialism they can't find a way to stand up to corporatism, so they look the other way and remain oblivious to how their inaction is screwing victims for real.


Dude, that's Trump.


Yeah, you already covered that.


Of course, the Marxist thing.

Look, we can't help it if you fail to understand the difference between democratic socialism and the tyrannies that hijacked the communist revolutions of the 20th century.

LOL - Only because I have better things to do with the time I spend with them. Why bicker about politics when you can play music instead?

It's normal to get bored with things you don't understand.

I would love it if you could explain how a republic is constituted because I always wanted to know what a republic is made out of.

Seriously though, if this is your fancy way of saying how a constitution is applied to a republic. I'm not sure what you think the mystery is. They had a convention, the states sent delegates and they painstakingly bickered and haggled until they came up with an agreement on how the republic is to be structured. As an after thought, they added a Bill of Rights like what England had to limit the power of the republic over the acknowledged rights of the people.

Is that because you rarely venture into complicated systems? It really isn't that difficult to follow Seth and it's not BS either. I suspect it's because the explanation is coming from a liberal so you are predisposed to reject it and calling it a quagmire of doubletalk is your way of doing that.


Call what you like, but the reason why it stands on its own is because I'm not parroting the same old arguments. I'm actually disagreeing with the conservatives AND liberals on this. Liberals want to get rid of the EC because they think it's unfair. I'm pointing out that there is nothing wrong with the EC itself. The problem is elsewhere.

Did you even get to that part of my explanation or were you already tuned out?

Oh, look who's the know-it-all now... Big city reasoning? LOL

So tell me Seth, how did you "experience" big city reasoning?

Honestly, if you had the slightest clue about the divisions, the conflicts and the differences of opinion in every major city you wouldn't be describing city dwellers as some kind of monolithic hive mind.

You're hilarious.


What, like Jane Goodall and her apes? Oooh!

Seriously though, I wouldn't knock anyone for writing about the thoughts of others (as long as it really is the thoughts of others). Can you link me to something she wrote? I tried to google but all I get is facebook pages, twitter accounts, obituaries and a profile on a general manager at AppleBee's. I guess she's not very famous but I'd like to see what she is saying.

I get a pretty good view of rural America when I leave the city (Philadelphia) twice a week to travel an hour to South Jersey for band practice with people who call themselves Pineys because they live in the pine barrens. Unlike North Jersey, which is pretty much an extension of NYC, South Jersey is rural and mostly agricultural. Even our music is rural (Irish Traditional and Bluegrass) and my band mates are ALL Trump supporters and Confederate sympathizers and trust me... they let me know what they are thinking. I usually just wait for them to finish their rants then say "are you ready to play music now?"

Sometimes I engage but I find more times than not they wind up shouting over me, but over time they have come to realize that I'm not so different. We share the same basic principles and we have a lot of overlap in the libertarian space but when it gets beyond that we just shake it off and start playing music. It's more fun anyway.

LOL - that's what I thought. You're just blabbering. BTW, if conservatives are so smart how did they allow themselves to be overrun by a "liberal" infestation?

I never said or thought that so I would say your assumption kind of highlights your inability to assess reality.

I do find it interesting how anyone would assume no one can be as intelligent as our founding fathers. It's not like they had IQ tests back then and their accomplishments are only uncommon in that they established a new sovereign nation but even then much of what they designed was based on previous models. I HAVE been impressed by some of the discourse in the Federalist Papers, but no more than what I've read by Adam Smith, Karl Marx, Nietzsche or even contemporary intellectuals such as Chomsky and Stephen Hawking.

I'll just write you comment up as a reverence for our founders, which is perfectly fine.


Wonderful... So who's ignoring the constitution? ...because it's not me.


Awesome... you should make t-shirts.


That depends on the majority. Liberals tend to be more altruistic which is why they try to pass laws to protect those without power, such as minorities, immigrants and even animals. So there is less chance that a liberal majority will oppress the few. The fact that you think a majority will invariably oppress the few suggests that this is what you would do if you were part of the majority.

A less poetic but more rational statement would be "Give all the power to the many and they will have the capacity to oppress the few" But whether or not they act on that capacity is another matter.

This is how democracy works my friend.


That depends on the few in power. Even a king can be benevolent or oppressive, depending on what kind of person he is. And that's how tyranny works.


Just had to throw that in eh? Look, I'm fine with that. I've owned guns since I was 12 and thanks to the 2nd Amendment I never had to worry about losing them. Then again I don't suffer from paranoid delusion either.

Why don't you educate me then?

Every citizen gets an equal vote. How is that complicated? When you start dividing things up by state with all these lame excuses about people in the cities not being smart or self-reliant, THATs when it gets complicated.


So do people in the country. What makes you think I don't know that?


I already told you. The state would negotiate trade with Canada or Mexico. What would you country folks do?


Your farms are meant to produce large quantities of specific products. My uncle in Minnesota produces corn and soybeans. For everything else, he either depends on his personal garden (which some farmers have just like some people in the city do) or he goes to the grocery store just like we do.


Yes, they are. So let's dispense with all this pointless blabber about how one group is more critical than the other and take it from your point...

Most states with large urban populations also have significant farmlands. By dividing everyone up by state you are ignoring those differences. You are also ignoring the differences between the needs of different agricultures, like growing corn and wheat in Kansas versus salmon farming in Washington, shrimp fishing in Louisiana and citrus fruits in Florida and California.

The focus on state does not reflect the different needs of specific industries as much as you seem to think. You are suggesting a one-size fits all for each state, but states are varied. If you want the needs of each industry to be heard, it would be better to increase the resolution by using districts instead of states.