Communism - the liberal perspective:
No thank you. We'd rather not give up our private property or our individualism. We DO recognize the potential disasters of capitalism but all we really have to do is use our intelligence to regulate it. (Keynes knew what he was talking about). We also recognize the LIMITS of capitalism when it comes to human-critical services, but we prefer to compensate with democratic socialism, which works out really well for that purpose... For everything else, regulated capitalism is fine. But communism? Nah, it's just not our thing. Go ahead and ask. Ask ANY liberal.

Communism - the plutocratic perspective:
No thank you. We really like the power that capitalism has given us. In fact, don't even regulate it. And screw democratic socialism, why would we want Americans to create a system that protects them from desperation when middle-class desperation is so profitable for us? And don't worry about the middle-class rising up against us. Half of them are conservative... all we have to do is tell them that socialism always leads to Stalinism. LOL

Communism - the conservative perspective:
Hell no! Socialism always leads to Stalinism!

This was you answer to two seperate posts... So, are you just selling copies or do you actually have a point?

BTW, you might want to check this link...

https://www.jta.org/1961/10/05/archive/frank-britton-notorious-anti-semite-sentenced-to-serve-in-san-quentin

Your big expert on communism served time in San Quentin for trying to bribe police officers. LOL.

Here's what the Jewish Telegraphic Agency says about him...

Frank L, Britton, ranked as one of the worst of the professional anti-Semites in the United States, has been sentenced to a term in San Quentin prison after conviction of trying to bribe two San Francisco police officers.

Britton, who came from Los Angeles last year to San Francisco, where he tried to revive his hate sheet, “The American Nationalist,” became involved in a fight in a tavern. He allegedly made the bribe offer to the police who were taking him to jail on a charge of assault with a deadly weapon. He was carrying a 38-caliber revolver for which he did not have a permit.

Between his arrest and conviction, he issued pleading letters for funds to one-time followers, despite the fact that at his arrest, he was found to possess $3,000 in cash. Among his activities, he has distributed stickers, posters and leaflets assailing “mongrelization” of the races and charging Jewish organizations with “inspiring” Negroes to “agitate” for equal rights.


Ha, ha... Why am I not surprised to see you peddling Nazi propaganda? Have you ever thought about reading the Communist Manifesto? It a very short read. Probably a fraction of the red scare drama that you've already read.

Of course, you would need to use your own intelligence to come to your own conclusions. I realize that's a foreign concept on the right, but you might surprise yourself.

I think you know I'm not spewing bluster, you probably just don't want to face reality. And you can call it a sympathy plea if you want but a more accurate term would be "empathy", something you don't seem to show much respect for. And it's not a "plea" either it's a democratic process that isn't going your way.


Since it's the immigrant that works for less, I would say your emotional torrent of outrage is betraying your argument. LOL!


Those who think they're opinions are "holier than thou" don't admit to their own sins and those that do are often the most authoritative critics. Fact is, you can't tell me it doesn't happen when I've done it myself.



I gave them the $100 each that they were praying for while standing in front of Home Depot. What did YOU give them? And yes, the American businesses that I referenced do it too. Again this is proven every time there's another ICE raid. These business and I are helping them get more than they got in Mexico. That's why they come here. Remember, I'm not the one all freaked out because we have immigrants.


They DO want to do it legal, but the bigots writing the immigration laws won't allow it. Dugh!


Actually, our government DOES enforce the law, they just don't catch ALL the immigrants. So yeah, it works out for the illegal immigrants and every American that hires them. The only people getting shafted are the bigots that want to keep them out. (boo-hoo)


I never said it was your job. In fact, I wouldn't trust you to do it. I'm referring to whatever agencies "document" the legal immigrants. That would be the federal government for issuing visas and tax id's and the state governments for things like driver licenses. And yes, it would be the responsibility of the immigrants and their employers to apply for the documents, which they WOULD do if the government would allow it. So that's what I mean when I say "document them".


Not for illegals you don't


I break up quotes to reply directly to false statements. The more false statements in the rant the more breaks there's going to be. You folks are inclined to spew these rambling rants filled with disinformation. If you don't want to deal with the way I respond you can always rely on solid arguments to support one or two points instead of ranting.

Otherwise, you can just not respond... It's not like I'd be missing out on anything.

Well, I have other things to do now. Have a nice day lindajoy. Try not to let your fears ruin it for you.

We WERE a country of open arms but people like you are changing us into the country of middle-fingers.


There is zero evidence to support that claim. It's just something chauvinists like to say.


Utter nonsense as thoroughly exposed in my previous post.

The only force involved in this issue is the force of democracy as citizens with differing opinions battle it out in the ballots.

The only greed that factors in is the greed of American businesses that hire illegal immigrants to avoid taxes and get labor for super cheap.

The only people who truly hate our country do so because we are an aggressive sponsor of war and poverty throughout the world. Technically, it's a hatred of imperialism but that term has become politically incorrect in a country that refuses to acknowledge its own faults.

We most certainly do NOT "graciously pass out" benefits either. Reagan made it illegal for emergency rooms to refuse care for anyone regardless of status and that's about it. Illegal immigrants do NOT get food stamps, Medicare, welfare, disability insurance or any of those tax-funded benefits that Americans have come to rely on.

Sorry if my references to facts disrupt your delusion. I would suggest you stop listening to ignorant assholes and do some actual research but then again, I get the impression that your bigotry is better served by your BS.


Zero. Illegal immigrants don't receive any tax-funded benefits but everytime they buy food, gas or anything else they need to survive, they pay sales tax. They actually have the short end of the deal.


Nothing has happened to any of our laws since the Immigration Act of 1965 and we are far from the only country to bear the burden of immigration. (Just so you know, "bare" means to be naked) In fact, after our invasion of Iraq triggered the uprising of civil war in Syria, many countries took on the burden of accepting the millions of refugees with us being the least generous of them all.

If we are talking about immigrants from Latin America, the reason is simple. Where else can they go when all they have is their feet? I've already covered all this in my previous post. So, i'll move on.


There isn't any, which is probably why we don't.


We WERE doing that until Trump came along with his executive orders which have consistently been challenged in court for being unconstitutional.


I'm not even sure what you are trying to say here. What do you mean "by what they produce"? And how is vetting not a process of "finding out"?


That stipulation was already on the books. The bigots that put it there thought it would limit the number of non-white immigrants, but it turns out the minorities that were already here or were able to prove their financial capacity reproduced at a far greater rate than white people AND had more family outside the country than white people, so now their racist law is backfiring on them and I'm laughing my ass off.


Of course... but only in so far as their crimes are "criminal" according to OUR laws. Keep in mind a lot refugees are incriminated by their home countries for political reasons.


Being an ignorant bigot is not the same thing as "manning up" or "standing for this country". It's more like being chicken-sh-ts that are so afraid of immigrants they want mommy to build walls to keep them out. Your disgusting view on immigration comes from a lack of courage.


I can smell your fear from here. Fear of the future, fear of change, fear of the unknown. We're supposed to be the land of the brave, so get a grip.


If the world is that scary for you, maybe you should just stay in your house.

Have you forgotten that our nation was built by people who came here to work? I'm guessing you aren't 100% Native American, which means at some point your family came here from somewhere else. Do you think your predecessors should have stayed in the old country instead? I mean, everyone has to start somewhere right?


I do. You've been led to believe that people from all over the world are attracted to our benefits and that is the ONLY reason why they come here. What arrogance! The worst kind... arrogance on top of ignorance!

First of all, out of the list of countries dealing with an influx of immigrants (that's right, we're not the only ones) the U.S. has the crappiest benefits of all. Unfortunately, for Latin American migrants, the U.S. is the only one of those countries they can reach given their means. In fact many of them walk here. (They can't exactly walk to Europe and the U.S. border blocks them from walking to Canada.) Likewise, most migrants from Africa and the Middle East head for Europe for the same reason; it's the easiest to reach given their means. Fortunately for them, the benefits in places like Germany, France and Sweden are WAAAAY better than they are here.

But government-issued benefits (in other words, the kind that people pay taxes for) is not what causes people to leave their homelands. Most of them leave because their homelands are ravaged by violence or famine, much like the Irish immigrants did in the 19th century.

In fact, the original American colonists migrated from England to get away from a kingdom where they were not allowed to worship the way they wanted to. Their efforts to fix that culminated in the English Civil War but they lost, so they came here.

So it's not as easy as simply "fixing their own homeland". In fact, suggesting that immigrants go back and deal with their own problems is really no different than sending a distressed child back to her abusive parents while telling her that "everyone has to start somewhere."

Honestly, it's really hard not to have an attitude toward people with such an utter lack of compassion. I don't know you personally, but I can tell that you are NO Christian.


Then tell that to the millions of Irish and Italian immigrants from a century ago!

Look, this is why I brought up the analogy of a child and her abusive parents. These immigrants don't have anymore control over their homeland than a child does over her abusive parents. You and I are LUCKY to be citizens of a country where we are better protected. But only because we've been preceded by generations of activism that fought hard to get the government to enforce our right to a decent life.

If not for Americans heroes like Cesar Chavez, you and I would be just as abused as these immigrants are. We (including children) would still be working 16 hour days for script. There would be no such thing as paid vacation, maternity leave or worker's compensation. There would be no child labor laws, health insurance or minimum wages. NONE of these things are listed in the U.S.Constitution.

So don't EVEN sit there in your callous arrogance and tell immigrants they need to just fix their own country as you bathe in the benefits of a country that others have already fixed for you.


Well, speaking for myself, I remember paying three Mexicans to trench out half an acre of ditches on my property so I can install irrigation. It took them two days and I paid them $300 under the table plus a case of cheap-ass Budweiser (which for some reason they love). That's what I call a bargain. There's no way in hell I could have gotten as good a deal from an American business.

I know for a fact that a lot of American businesses do the same, as proven by the ICE raids we always hear about. Farms, ranches, orchards and sweatshops all over the country do this because it's a bargain for them too and compared to a lot of these American businesses I was being generous.

Would you like all that to stop? Are the use (and often abuse) of illegal immigrants unfair competition for American ditch-diggers? Then document them! Give them what they need to work OVER the table. Give them what they need to secure minimum wage and pay taxes and pull their own weight.

Let the free economy decide how many immigrants are too many. When the supply of labor supasses the demand, there will be less reason for immigrants to come here and the influx will dwindle down to the refugees trying to escape violence.

Congratulations grandma!

Not really. The genius of the founding fathers is that they left a lot of ambiguity in the Constitution, specifically so that it could be interpreted to suite future generations. It's ironic as hell that 250 years later, a certain group of idiots would totally miss that while claiming to be experts in the Constitution.

Apparently, a solid understanding of the U.S.Constitution can't be guaranteed by simply calling yourself a Constitutionalist. ;)


Uh, yeah, as proven by the endless temper tantrums of those who disagree with the interpretations made by federal court judges.


I have a copy that I use as a reference. Over the years, I've probably read about half of it. Why? Do you have a point or were you just hoping I wouldn't know what the Federalist Papers are?


Well, YOU might wonder. And though there are many reasons, they all seem pretty obvious to me.

Is that why it's the Republicans that are falling over themselves to prevent people from voting?

Of course they are. We did too. It's a very lucrative proposition.

Debeda is referring to some false information. I've done the research on this... illegal immigrants actually contribute more than they take.

Federalist Papers - good point... the conflicting interpretations started before the Constitution was even ratified!

I am an immigrant. I came here from England with my parents when I was 2 years old. That makes me a childhood arrival. Now it so happens that my family came here legally, but I had no control over that. I was two years old, so I wasn't exactly asking my parents if this sh8t is legal.

As it turns out by the time the government started putting pressure on deportations during the last Bush Administration I have already been here for about 40 years, got married and raised two children.

I can't imagine being told that I have to leave my family and the country I grew up in to be returned to a country I don't even know, just because of a decision my parents made when I was a baby.

Some of these childhood arrivals, served our country in uniform. Some of them worked hard to give their own U.S. born children a good education, making them viable contributors to society.

Do you ever think about these things?


Okaay... Well, you did put it out there. It's easy to see. 'Not sure what makes that funny. But it's always good to laugh, right?

Being a Constitutionalist doesn't mean anything. The U.S.Constitution is a simple and relatively small body of laws that anyone can read... and interpret. The Constitutionalist view is just one of many interpretations out there.


And now you are describing your intolerance for other interpretations.


I agree this is what he SHOULD be doing.


Oh, the irony... Fact is, the thing Democrats find most frustrating about Trump and his allies is how they bend the rule of law. As for patriotism and all that crap, I can't speak for all Democrats because I know they can also be very patriotic, but personally, I have no room for such BS. I love my family and my friends and I have respect for all humanity. I don't get caught up in all that jingoism, which is all your pathetic patriotism is.

Great fodder for fascism though. All the fascist regimes were nationalist. It's what puts them on the right.


LOL - Well, let's just wait and see.

OK... a bit delusional on the details but your prejudice is pretty clear... In any case, DACA has nothing to do with any of that. Maybe you shouldn't use DACA as an example until you know what it actually is.