Acts 17:10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

Not Bishops of the established hierarchy, simply curious hearers of the gospel.



Which "Cult" is obvious Mike? Or are you just casting dispersions to see if something will stick?



And YOU are convinced that doctrines made up by MEN override scripture. They do NOT.



I don't think you want to begin THAT contest.

Do you know what the earliest Church Fathers believed about TRINITY DOCTRINE?

NOTHING, because it was not around when the earliest Church Fathers were alive.


Clements writings expresses his understanding of who was considered to be GOD, CIRCA 96 A.D. Or, to put it another way, what was the doctrine of his day, as relates to a trinity?

PP-59. Let all the Gentiles know that YOU ARE GOD ALONE, [ho theos monos]

AND JESUS CHRIST IS YOUR SON,

and we are your people and the sheep of your pasture.

(Apostolic Fathers P.36-37/82-83)

I do not say that you are wrong - I say give scripture reference, as you may well know something I do not.

What I DO know, is -

John 5:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that (The Father) himself doeth: and he (The Father) will shew him (The Son) greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the (Rhma) words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, He doeth the works.

Deut 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.



Oh? Explain how the Jews said -

WHO IN THE NEW TESTAMENT QUOTED EXO 3:14? (tongue in cheek)
FALSE MESSIAH'S
KJV Matthew 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, (EGW EIMI) I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
KJV Mark 13:6 For many shall come in my name, saying, (EGW EIMI) I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
KJV Luke 21:8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, (EGW EIMI)I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

DISCIPLES OF JESUS
KJV Matthew 26:22 And they were exceeding sorrowful, and began every one of them to say unto him, Lord, is it (EGW EIMI)I?

JUDAS
KJV Matthew 26:25 Then Judas, which betrayed him, answered and said, Master, is it (EGW EIMI) I? He said unto him, Thou hast said.

EVEN GABRIEL
KJV Luke 1:19 And the angel answering said unto him, (EGW EIMI) I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings.

KJV John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, [EGW EIMI]I am.

PETER
KJV Acts 10:21 Then Peter went down to the men which were sent unto him from Cornelius; and said, Behold, (EGW EIMI) I am he whom ye seek: what is the cause wherefore ye are come?

SAUL OF TARSUS
KJV Acts 22:3 (EGW EIMI)I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.

KJV Acts 26:29 And Paul said, I would to God, that not only thou, but also all that hear me this day, were both almost, and altogether such as (EGW EIMI) I am, except these bonds.

It is claimed "Jesus claimed deity for Himself by quoting Exodus 3:14 "I AM."

John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was,(egw eimi) I am.

But is that what God said, or is that How MEN twisted it to prove a doctrine?
Exodus 3:13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?14 And God said unto Moses, (egw eimi o` wn) I AM THE BEING: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, (o` wn) I AM hath sent me unto you.

God introduced himself to Moses as a first-person-singular "being;" i.e., there is only one person in the "person-singular" being.

In Exo 3:14 God introduced himself to Moses using singular pronoun, singular verb, singular definite article and singular verb participle.
EGW EIMI O' WN = "I AM THE BEING."

EGW = first-person-singular pronoun ="I"
EIMI = first-person-singular present active verb ="am"
O' = singular definite article = "the"
WN = Singular participle = "Being"

"Singular" participle means there is only one person in "The Being."

Again, the number of "Persons" in God is a matter of Grammatical Principle, not comparison definition. No one has to prove God is a person, and no one has to prove God is not three persons, because the grammatic principle deals with precisely that issue.

[quote=Mr Bombastic] Think! Take for example Jesus’ words in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” When first encountered, this might not seem to be a claim to be God. However, when we look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement, “For a good work we stone thee not; replied the Jews, but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.” (John 10:33). Now we see an actual claim. The Jews understood Jesus’ statement to be a claim to be God. In the following verses, Jesus never corrects the Jews by saying, “I did not claim to be God.” That indicates Jesus was truly saying He was God by declaring, “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30).

Jesus was not "claiming equality with" the Father, in fact the only time he claimed equality was with a man, and that was in prophecy: " For it was not an enemy that reproached me; then I could have borne it: neither was it he that hated me that did magnify himself against me; then I would have hid myself from him: 13 But it was thou, a [anthrwpos] man mine equal, my guide, and mine acquaintance. 14 We took sweet counsel together, and walked unto the house of God in company."[Isa 55:12-14]

And how do I know he was not "making himself equal with God?" Because he explained for us what his own words meant. Why do you therefore not accept his explanation for what his own words meant?

WHAT JESUS SAID
John 10:30 "I and my Father are one."

WHAT THE JEWS HEARD JESUS SAY
John 10:30 "I and my Father are one."

WHAT THE JEWS SAID JESUS' WORDS MEANT
John 10:33 "..blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God."

WHAT JESUS SAID HIS WORDS MEANT
John 10:36 "..I said, I am the Son of God?"

HOW THE JEWS CHANGED THEIR TESTIMONY AT HIS TRIAL
John 19:7 "...he made himself the Son of God."

So the Jews did not misunderstand what Jesus' words meant, they simply wanted an accusation against him to cause him trouble. When they came to testify under oath, they had to speak truth because they knew God was watching their oath testimony.



Jesus is the image of God because he is a MAN;
1 Cor 11:7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God:



Right. Firstborn of the new creation after his resurrection "Firstborn FROM THE DEAD."

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.



Again correct. See that little word "Whether they be?" Did you know that phrase is in the GREEK of that verse 4 times? Did you know the translators deliberately limited it to only one use? They did not want you to realize the limiting parameter involved with the verse, which in the Greek reads - "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or whether they be dominions, or whether they be principalities, or whether they be powers: all things were created by him, and for him."

The Greek is telling us Jesus, in the new creation, made all things new, whether we are talking about "thrones, or whether they be dominions, or whether they be principalities, or whether they be powers:"

This was brought about by Jesus' ascension to second place in the kingdom of God - all thrones, dominions, principalities and powers had to move down one place to accommodate Jesus promotion.



Correct again. Present tense after resurrection and ascension - Jesus is given all power in Heaven and in Earth AFTER HE WAS KILLED - AFTER HE WAS RAISED -

Mat 28:7 And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you. -16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.



Right. "The logos was God."
Jesus was the image of God's cause for our confidence.

Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of the foundation of our confidence...

"Xarakteer" is the Greek word for a tool like our "X-acto" carving tools. And the term includes any image made by the use of that tool, the image. So, Jesus is the image of God, which as you know, will look like an exact opposite, just like any mirror image shows the opposite of the original. Then when we "Conform to the image of His son," we once more take on the opposite of the image of the original, which makes us the opposite of the opposite of the original, and we therefore, reflect the original foundation for our confidence, which is of of God.

So the logos was God, Jesus was the image of God. Not the same association at all. Just as we are to be the image of Christ, but that won't make us Christ.



All blood belongs to God - HE CREATED IT and never relinquished ownership thereof - Numbers 8:17 For all the firstborn of the children of Israel are mine, both man and beast:

And God is neither MAN Nor BEAST.

You are too young for perfection, but Man, this comes close.

You sound like you are referencing the man-made doctrine of "Original Sin." And you are correct, because God never said any such thing. In fact, it was God who caused to be written -

Deu 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

2 Kings 14:6 But the children of the murderers he slew not: according unto that which is written in the book of the law of Moses, wherein the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, nor the children be put to death for the fathers; but every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

2 Chron 25:3 Now it came to pass, when the kingdom was established to him, that he slew his servants that had killed the king his father. 4 But he slew not their children, but did as it is written in the law in the book of Moses, where the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not die for the children, neither shall the children die for the fathers, but every man shall die for his own sin.

Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law , do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; 16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Paul says men will be punished for their own deeds, not for the deeds of their fathers; "But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds" [Rom 2:5]

The Manmade Doctrine of "Original sin" has been rebutted by scripture and should be said no more. And that is just one of many "Doctrines of Men" that trouble the souls of Christians in churches throughout the land today, even to the Hauling of God out of Heaven to become a MAN, then raising of that Man to being God.

Listen to the words of Jesus Himself -

God is a Spirit - [John 4:24]

Spirit does not have flesh and bone [Luke 24:39-40
Jesus is flesh and bone - [Luke 24:39][/b]
True worshippers will worship the Father [John 4:23]

It was Jesus who told us "True Worshippers will worship THE FATHER."
It was Jesus who told us "My Father is GREATER THAN I."

It is MEN who tell us "Jesus is equal to the Father" - found nowhere in scripture.
It is MEN who tells us Jesus was in the beginning with God - nowhere found in scripture.
And no, it is not found in John 1:1 which tells about "the logos" - which was God, then changed to become flesh; which GOD DID NOT DO.

It is no sin to doubt the doctrines made by MEN.

And it is no shame attached to those who disagree with the teachings and traditions of MEN.

Rather, it is enlightening.

That is a false doctrine taught by the same people who teach Peter was the first POPE.
AS A MATTER OF FACT, PETER WAS GIVEN A COMMISSION TO PREACH THE GOSPEL TO THE GENTILES: "And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe." [Acts 15:7]

BUT PETER MESSED UP SO BAD THE COMMISSION WAS TAKEN FROM HIM:
Gal 2: 11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. 12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. 13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.

14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? 15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid 18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

AND THE COMMISSION TO THE GENTILES WAS GIVEN TO PAUL
Gal 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)

Paul wrote his epistle to the Galations circa 48 a.d. but Luke did not write the account of the Acts of the Apostles until circa 61 a.d.

The chronology of the commissions to preach is recorded thusly that Peter was given the job to preach to the gentiles, Peter messed up, Paul was given the commission to the Gentiles, and Peter was redirected to the Jews. His influence was tainted by his behaviour in Galatia.

When the church sent Paul and Barnabas to the Jerusalem conference (recorded in Acts 15) Peter was certainly not a pope, because James was the one in charge.

Acts 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. 2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.

3 And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren. 4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. 6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.

PETER REMINDED THEM OF HIS EARLIER COMMISSION TO THE GENTILES;
And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe." [Acts 15:7]

8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

BARNABAS AND PAUL THEN REHEARSES WHAT HAD TAKEN PLACE IN THE WORK THEY HAD AMONG THE GENTILES; 12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.

JAMES THEN TESTIFIES THAT GOD "AT FIRST" VISITED THE GENTILES THROUGH PETER; 13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me: 14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. 15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: 17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. 18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

JAMES THEN GIVES HIS DECISION AS TO HOW TO HANDLE THE SITUATION;
19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: 20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. 21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

APOSTLES, ELDERS, WHOLE CHURCH SEND "CHIEF MEN AMONG THE BRETHREN"
22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren: 23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:

24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment: 25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth. 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; 29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

JAMES IS NAMED BEFORE PETER AS PILLARS
Gal 2:6 But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person:) for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me: 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. 10 Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.

So the chronology established by scripture is 1) Peter was given a commission to preach the gospel to the Gentiles. Peter messed up in Galatia. Paul was given the commission to the Gentiles and Peter was sent to the Jews.

This was demonstrated earlier in John's gospel by an prophetic exchange between Jesus and Peter. [John 21:15-17]

"So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep. 17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep."

The Greek clears up any doubt for us -

Jesus says to Simon Peter, "Simon son of Jonas, Agape thou me" (are you devoted to me?)
Simon responded "Yea Lord, I phileo thee (I have affection for thee)
Jesus said to him, feed my lambs

A second time Jesus asked of Peter, "Simon, son of Jonas, Agape thou me?" (Are you devoted to me?)

Again Simon responded "Yea Lord you know that I Phileo thee." (I have affection for thee.)Jesus said to him, "Feed my sheep."

The third time, Jesus says to Peter, "Simon son of Jonas, do you Phileo me?" (Do you have affection for me?)
Peter was grieved because the third time, Jesus questioned his affection.
Jesus said unto him, feed my sheep.

Notice - Peter, when asked about the depth of his devotion, responded with affection, and was told to feed the lambs, the young inexerienced babes in Christ [Gentiles who convert to Christ].

Upon being questioned a second time about his devotion, and again responding with his affection, Peter is no longer fit to feed the lambs, but is told to feed the sheep [The Jews who convert to Christ].

But the third time, Jesus changed his question to accomodate Peter's earlier two reponses; the result of which was Jesus questioned even Peter's affection, because it should have by this time escalated into devotion. Peter was grieved because Jesus questioned even his affection.

And sure enough, Peter was given the job of preaching to the Gentiles, and later lost that commission, and was given the job instead, of preaching only to the Jews.

Peter was never a POPE, and in fact, Boniface the III in 606 a.d. was the first Bishop to take the title for Himself.

Turning to the Scriptures we find The Holy Spirit-

Exo 34:27 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these rhmata: for after the tenor of these logwn I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.

Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and paraklhsews (comfort) of the scriptures might have hope.

Prov 3:11 My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of his
correction: 12 For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in
whom he delighteth.

Heb 12:5 And ye have forgotten the paraklhsews (exhortation) which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

John 15:26 But when the paraklhtos (Comforter) is come, whom I will send unto you
from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

2 Cor 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the rhma (words) that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the rhma of God:

John 1:1 In the beginning was the logos, and the logos was with God, and the logos was
God.

Heb 4:12 For the logos of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Watch as Scripture condemns the very things we see in way too many churches today-
2 Tim 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

2 Pet 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Exercising Authority over fellow men -
Matthew 20:25 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. 26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; 27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:

Mark 10:42 But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them. 43 But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister: 44 And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all.

Mark 12:38 And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces, 39 And the chief seats in the synagogues, and the uppermost rooms at feasts:

[quote=Theo]Rediculous!

Adam, Eve, Cain, Able = total of Humanity; Cain killed Able. 25% of total population murdered in one attack upon totality of civilization.
No "Historical era" has ever matched when 25% of Civilization was murdered in one attack of Humanity upon Humanity.

You really should read your bible more often.

So in your world, it is damn the scriptures we have a doctrine to develop, defend, protect, and spread.

Other than your failure with grammar, logic, scripture reference, and truth, that leaves you only with man-made doctrine.

I do not "deny the Trinity" because I don't waste my time "denying" non-existent things.

As far as "all Christians join together with them," That is simply a claim made by you to make yourself comfortable. It is a false assertion proven by the enormity of the movement that destroys Trinitarian Theology.

And the really wonderful thing about this movement is, there is no movement group. It is altogether a movement of singular effort to study and bring out the truth. Millions of individuals who seek and preach the same united truth of scripture. And we will all look upon each other's faces for the first time, in Heaven in glory under God's grace.

Rediculous!

No "Historical era" has ever matched when 25% of Civilization was murdered in one attack of Humanity upon Humanity.

Instead of making a fool of yourself by casting idiotic accusations unfounded, why don't you try to respond to the scriptures, by showing where my post is in error?

You pretend to know something of consequence, so demonstrate your ability to bring out the truth of scripture?

Remember what the Apostle Paul said?
"...this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:" [Acts 24:14]

Why would it bother me to be called heretic? I stand in good company. "Orthodoxy" is what the murderous Trinitarians called their newly voted-in doctrine at the Council of Chalcedon (A.D. 451). There had been almost two-Thousand church leaders invited to the council, and less than one fifth showed up, because the bishops had already had a taste of the treatment they could expect from the leadership.

Two years after the Chalcedon Council, the Bishop turned the discipline of Heretics over to the Emperor Marcion, for prosecution, and the beginning of a murderous solution for "Heresy" accused.

So if you will show where my reference material is at fault, I will welcome an opportunity to demonstrate the truth of my position.

Are you equally ready to defend yours?

Didn't forget to read it. But I did continue on and read Jesus' response.

It was not Jesus who said "Only God can forgive sins;" It was the Scribes and the Pharisees.

And Jesus asked them "WHAT WERE YOU THINKING?"

Except YOU forgive one another, you will not be forgiven.

Does that make US God?


Luke 5:18 And, behold, men brought in a bed a man which was taken
with a palsy: and they sought means to bring him in, and to lay him
before him.19 And when they could not find by what way they might
bring him in because of the multitude, they went upon the housetop,
and let him down through the tiling with his couch into the midst before
Jesus. 20 And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins
are forgiven thee.21 And the scribes and the Pharisees began to
reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can
forgive sins, but God alone? 22 But when Jesus perceived their
thoughts, he answering said unto them, What reason ye in your hearts?
23 Whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say,
Rise up and walk?

Mat 6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

Mat 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Mat 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

Mark 11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

Luke 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

Luke 17:3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.



Correct.....

God is called "Elohiym"

Genesis 1:26 And [ELOHIYM] God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.27 So [ELOHIYM] God created man in his own image, in the image of [ELOHIYM] God created he him; male and female created he them.

So who was God speaking to in Gen 1:26? Wisdom. Look at the testimony of Wisdom...
Proverbs 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. 24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. 25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: 26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world. 27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth: 28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep: 29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth: 30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

JUDGES ARE CALLED WISDOM:
Exodus 22:8 If the thief be not found, then the master of the house shall be brought unto the [ELOHIYM] judges, to see whether he have put his hand unto his neighbour's goods. 28 Thou shalt not revile the [ELOHIYM] gods, nor curse the ruler of thy people.

MAN IS CALLED ELOHIYM:
Psalm 8:3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; 4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? 5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the [ELOHIYM] angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. 6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet: 7 All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field; 8 The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and
whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas. 9 O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth!

AND AGAIN:
Psalm 82:6 I have said, Ye are [ELOHIYM] gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

JESUS QUOTED THIS:
John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

DEAD SAMUEL IS CALLED ELOHIYM:
1 Samuel 28:10 And Saul sware to her by the LORD, saying, As the LORD liveth, there shall no punishment happen to thee for this thing. 11 Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel. 12 And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul. 13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw [ELOHIYM] gods ascending out of the earth. 14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.

So being called by some title also applied to God does NOT make us God.

I caution you to "search the scriptures whether these things are so," and "make not haste to convict a brother without cause"
From the notes of Theo Book

JESUS HIMSELF TELLS US HE WAS NOT WITH THE FATHER IN CREATION:
John 16:32 Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me [monon] (alone): and yet [ouk eimi monos] (I am not alone), because the Father is with me.

When the Father and the Son are separated, they are both and each, monon = only= Adverb equivalent to adjective monos = alone = adjective equivalent to adverb monon.

Jehovah God has already told us in Isaiah, that He, The Father, created heaven and earth monos.

[Isa 37:16,20]
Isaiah 37:16 O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, that dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou monos (alone), of all the kingdoms of the earth: thou hast made heaven and earth.

Isaiah 37:20 Now therefore, O LORD our God, save us from his hand, that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that thou art the LORD, even thou monos (only).

Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens monos (alone); that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Nehemiah 9:6 Thou, even thou, art LORD monos (alone); thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.

NEH 9:6
THOU.......su
ART........ei
LORD.....kurios -(HEBREW JEHOVAH)
ALONE...monos

Psalm 86:10 thou art God monos (alone).
THOU......su
ART........ei
THE........o`
GOD.......Theos
ALONE...monos

It means Jesus was not there creating with him. If he was, where was he? He was not with, beside [Isa 44:6]; before, after [Isa 43:10]; or "other" [Isa 44:8].

Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
=========================================================
In Gen 17:1 God introduced Himself to Abraham thusly:
EGW = first-person-singular pronoun ="I"
EIMI = first-person-singular present active verb ="am"
O' = singular definite article = "the"
THEOS = Nominative masculine singular noun = "God"

LAW
a)Gen 17:1 EGW EIMI O' THEOS
b)Gen 26:24 EGW EIMI O' THEOS
c)Gen 31:13 EGW EIMI O' THEOS
d)Gen 46:3 EGW EIMI O' THEOS
e)Exo 3:6 EGW EIMI O' THEOS

PSALMS
f)Psa 45:11 EGW EIMI O' THEOS

PROPHETS
g)Isa 45:22 8)Isa 46:9 9)Isa 48:17 EGW EIMI O' THEOS

NEW COVENANT
h)Mat 22:32 EGW EIMI O' THEOS

God introduced himself to Moses as a first-person-singular "being;" i.e., there is only one person in the "person-singular" being.

In Exo 3:14 God introduced himself to Moses using singular pronoun, singular verb, singular definite article and singular verb participle.
EGW EIMI O' WN = "I AM THE BEING."

EGW = first-person-singular pronoun ="I"
EIMI = first-person-singular present active verb ="am"
O' = singular definite article = "the"
WN = Singular participle = "Being"

"Singular" participle means there is only one person in "The Being."

Again, the number of "Persons" in God is a matter of Grammatical Principle, not comparison definition. No one has to prove God is a person, and no one has to prove God is not three persons, because the grammatic principle deals with precisely that issue.

The identity of God the Father as "the Holy Spirit"-

[Isa 63:11-16] Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is HE that put HIS Holy Spirit within him? 12 That led them by the right hand of Moses with his glorious arm, dividing the water before them, to make himself an everlasting name? 13 That led them through the deep, as an horse in the wilderness, that they should not stumble? 14 As a beast goeth down into the valley, the Spirit OF JEHOVAH (THE LORD) caused him to rest: so didst thou lead thy people, to make thyself a glorious name. 15 Look down from heaven, and behold from the habitation of thy holiness and of thy glory: where is thy zeal and thy strength, the sounding of thy bowels and of thy mercies toward me? are they restrained? 16 Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O JEHOVAH (LORD), art OUR FATHER, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting.

So scripture taught very early, that God is the Father, and sends HIS Spirit to accomplish certain things. He did not send a "third-person-of-a-trinity" Spirit anywhere.

Later, The prophet Joel established that Jehovah will send His spirit upon all flesh. There is no scripture that will sustain a third-person-of-a-trinity-Holy-Spirit being sent anywhere.

[JOEL 2:28-32]
"And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out MY SPIRIT upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: 29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out MY SPIRIT. 30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. 31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. 32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call."

And Luke sustains this concept in the new testament -[ACTS 2:16-21][61 a.d.]
"But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; 17 "And it shall come to pass in the last days, SAITH GOD, I will pour out of MY SPIRIT upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days OF MY SPIRIT; and they shall prophesy: 19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: 20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: 21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

52 a.d. Mat 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. 17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; 18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. 19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

50 A.D. [I THES 4:8]
"He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but GOD, who hath also given unto us HIS Holy Spirit."

56 A.D. [ROM 8:11]
"But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by HIS Spirit that dwelleth in you"

58 a.d. Luke 12:11 And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say:12 For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye
ought to say.

68 a.d. Mark 13:11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.p

85 A.D. [I JOHN 4:13]
"Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because HE hath given us of HIS Spirit."

And, if we find another creation than the original,(which Jehovah says he did monos [alone]), is there evidence from scripture that it is the "creation" in which Jesus was involved?

Paul tells us [51 A.D.] - "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things gegonen [are become] new."[II Cor 5:17]

The last book written, of the bible, John, Using the same Greek expressionj used by Paul, tells us [96 A.D.] in 1:3 "All things became egeneto [were made] by him; and without him was not any thing became egeneto [made] that GEGONEN (has become) [was made].

So Paul sets us straight on the issue of Christ and creation; it is the new creation Jesus was involved in. And John agrees.

Isa 44:24 Thus saith the LORD thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things;that stretcheth forth the heavens monos [alone]; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Scripture teaches us that God has a singular heart and a singular soul, making him equivalent to a singular person - " Jeremiah 32:41 Yea, I will rejoice over them to do them good, and I will plant them in this land assuredly with my whole heart and with my whole soul." [Jer 32:41]
[In The Septuagint of this verse - "God" is identified as "Theon" - singular]

In scripture, a HUMAN person is equivalent to a soul, which is comprised of a spirit in a body. When God breathed into Adam the "breath of life" Adam "became a living soul."

"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."[Gen 2:7]

"Equivalent" scriptural values - Seventy "souls" went into Egypt: "all the souls of the house of Jacob, which came into Egypt, were threescore and ten." [Gen 46:27]

(and)

Seventy "persons" went into Egypt: "Thy fathers went down into Egypt with threescore and ten persons;"[Deu 10:22]

And again:

Eight "persons" went into the ark: "In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;" [Gen 7:13]

(and)

Eight "souls" were saved in the ark; "Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was apreparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water."[I Pet 3:20]

A logical conclusion established from "equivalency of scripture" is, "a person" is equivalent to "a soul."

Since God chose to reveal Himself in terms with which we are familiar, and established a one to one relation between His own "Spirit parts" and our "Body parts" (The flesh being the image of the spirit) we understand the grammar to apply equally when addressing this issue. Any exception will have to be established by those who disagree.

So we have from scripture, God introducing Himself to Abraham as "The God" using grammar "count-words that tell us how many "Persons" are under consideration; and introducing Himself to Moses as "The Being" using singular grammar "count-words" that tell us how many "Persons" are under consideration; and scripture teaches that God has a singular soul; scripture teaches that a person and a soul are equivalent as to count-persons.

Trinity scholars claim that Elohim is plural God in a plural person singular being; totally ignoring the Hebrew grammar perspective that plural nouns require plural verbs to sustain plural entities. This aspect of Hebrew grammar can be verified by checking against LXX Greek. Wherever a plural entity is suggested in Hebrew scriptures, that aspect is replicated in Greek scriptures.

Jesus explained in plain language and explicit grammatic principle -

ALTERNATE PERSPECTIVE;

God is a Spirit - [John 4:24]

Spirit does not have flesh and bone [Luke 24:39-40
Jesus is flesh and bone - [Luke 24:39]
True worshippers will worship the Father [John 4:23]

About the logos of God, and Jesus, the son of God; God said "The logos was God,[John 1:1c] but Jesus is the express image of God's xarakteer [Heb 1:3]. They are not even in the same category as regards their relation to the Father. One was God, the other is an image, express or otherwise." One was God , the other being "in a form of God."[Phil 2:6]By this standard, Jesus was never the logos of God.

Isa 42:8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another[/B]

God says "And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed."[Gal 3:8]

If Jesus is the seed of God, why did God give the glory to Abraham? "THY seed..."

Now, feel free to show my reference material is false, either because I misquote; or the grammar does not support the Argument; or there is another, better explanation. Just remember, "I don't believe it" is not rebuttal; neither is "hunh unh!"

Trinity Doctrine leaves as many reasons for contradiction as it claims to repudiate. My understanding leaves no cause for contradiction.

YOU'R TURN!

I think it is imperative for everyone who makes a claim based upon understanding from the scriptures, that he/she be able to produce the verses that serve as evidence by which that conclusion is reached.

And

You're welcome!

I know and have known a few Democrats whom I would trust with my life. The fact that the D. party was stolen by George Soros, and Obama was raised from nowhere to become President via the D. Party, does not mean all Democrats are "tarnished with the same brush. It means there is very little the common man can do against leaders of a political party, who run amuck through the forest of people, kicking down trees and ruling with an iron fist.

The recent past should serve to warn all of us to be sure who we vote into office. And even being sure, we can still be fooled. THAT is why we pray, then vote, then continue to pray.

Prophecies about Messiah began with Genesis 3:14-15 "And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: 15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."

Abraham in reality was preceeded in PROPHESY, by Jesus. In fact, it was PROPHESY that "Preached the gospel unto Abraham," which caused Abraham to see Jesus' DAY, and Rejoice.

It is the SCRIPTURES that tell it like it is:
Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

And it is the SCRIPTURES that tells us Abraham rejoiced to see the day of Christ; not that he saw the person of Christ Himself. John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

And that "gospel" which the scriptures preached to Abraham is found early in the SCRIPTURES.
Gen 17:4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

Gen 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

And that "seed of prophesy" preached to Abraham, was Abraham's own seed, the son of David, Jesus of Nazareth;
Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Now look at another prophesy concerning this seed of Abraham -
Isaiah 52:13 Behold, my servant shall deal prudently, he shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high.

Psalm 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

Eph 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

Further evidence that Jesus is NOT God, is the simple fact that Jesus was raised to God's right hand, and given a name above every name, TO "THE GLORY OF THE FATHER." Why do you suppose the glory was not to Jesus the Messiah?

Phil 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Why was Jesus NOT called "LOGOS" until his resurrection and ascension to God's right hand? Because it was to be a reward for the completion of His mission as Prophet of God and Messiah.
Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

Jesus shows IN SCRIPTURE, that he is not God, but is a Man.
Psalm 41:9 Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me.

Psalm 55:12 For it was not an enemy that reproached me; then I could have borne it: neither was it he that hated me that did magnify himself against me; then I would have hid myself from him: 13 But it was thou, a man mine equal, my guide, and mine acquaintance. 14 We took sweet counsel together, and walked unto the house of God in company.

As for any statement-claim of Jesus to being equal with God - He denied that very thing:
WHAT JESUS SAID
John 10:30 "I and my Father are one."

WHAT THE JEWS HEARD JESUS SAY
John 10:30 "I and my Father are one."

WHAT THE JEWS SAID JESUS' WORDS MEANT
John 10:33 "..blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God."

WHAT JESUS SAID HIS WORDS MEANT
John 10:36 "..I said, I am the Son of God?"

HOW THE JEWS CHANGED THEIR TESTIMONY AT HIS TRIAL
John 19:7 "...he made himself the Son of God."

So the Jews did not "misunderstand" what Jesus' words meant, they simply wanted an accusation against him to cause him trouble. When they came to testify under oath, they had to speak truth because they knew God was watching their oath testimony.



By that standard (What some people believe) Goats are God. It was Azazael, the goat, led into the wilderness bearing the sins of the people, as an atonement for sins, that was the antitype of Christ:

LEV 16:5 And he shall take of the congregation of the children of Israel two kids of the goats for a sin offering, and one ram for a burnt offering.6 And Aaron shall offer his bullock of the sin offering, which is for himself, and make an atonement for himself, and for his house. 7 And he shall take the two goats, and present them before the LORD at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. 8 And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the LORD, and the other lot for the scapegoat (Heb: Azazael). 9 And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the LORD'S lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering.10 But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.

Leviticus 16:29 And this shall be a statute for ever unto you: that in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, ye shall afflict your souls, and do no work at all, whether it be one of your own country, or a stranger that sojourneth among you: 30 For on that day shall the priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that ye may be clean from all your sins before the LORD.

The offering of the Scapegoat was twofold under the law, but was joined in Christ under grace. Christ became both the blood sacrifice and the Scapegoat bearing our sins.

You can save your righteous rant. It is wasted on me. I have followed the facts and statistics for years, and it has escalated only after it was made legal and protected by Democrat Laws. And by pseudo-righteous preachers who join in your ranting, by claiming "No one knows when a conception becomes a Human."

I know when a Human conception becomes Human...when it's life was passed through the blood from the uterine wall though the Placenta, through the Umbilical chord to the Zygote, as it grew into a fully developed baby at the time of birth; it being "alive" every step of the way.

And no, I am not in denial. It is stupidity and ignorance that is in denial, neither of which I claim for myself. I will not pursue the issue unless you demand I identify those to whom, in my humble opinion, it applies.



o.k. Let's do.

1) Lying under Oath!
Covered by Perjury penalties.

2) Stealing from others!
Covered by laws dealing with values, i.e., grand larceny or petty larceny.

3) Setting fire to an occupied dwelling!
Covered by arson law; as well as degrees from attempted Murder to Murder.

4) Marriage breaking interference practices
Covered by marriage law.

5) How far do you want to go with this?
Covered by contract law.

6)Driving erratically in a crowded city
Covered by Traffic law.



Nope! I will argue it is defiance of God's law of replication.

And to argue that "no contraception causes Abortion" tempts me to not wait on identifying stupidity and ignorance. "No Contraception" does not even CAUSE babies. It only provides occasion if no contraceptive means are utilized properly. But it is not "Causative."

As for "Pro-choice" making it o.k. to kill babies, or being a lie, you miss entirely the real issue.

Every woman has equal choice as the man - Do we have sex, or do we abstain till marriage, and procreation for replication?
Pleas tells us which woman does NOT have that equal right with the man who fathers her children.

The problem is all a matter of timing.

The woman wants to have sex with no consequences; and chooses abortion as her method of birth-control. It is murder, pure and simple, destroying a life sent as a Gift from God.



Wrong again! Denial is on the part of the man and woman who fail to "deny themselves instant gratification at the cost of a later developed life as a consequence of their stupidity and ignorance.

And the only "Elements that cause abortion" are the selfish will of the woman and/or the selfish will of the man who caused the problem in the first place.



You are mistaking the source of those laws - Obama and Hillary championed the laws that provide protection for Abortion clinics, and both tried to get Government funding for Abortion clinics.

The Republicans have attempted to, first, expose the industry that murders for hire, covered by laws against murder; and second, defund the Abortion Industry from Tax-dollars.

I don't know where you are getting your "facts" from, but you need a reality check.