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Apr 8, 2014 18:38:24   #
Floyd Brown Loc: Milwaukee WI
 
rodulfo-tardo wrote:
Red is Red, unless color blindness makes it all gray.


Okay I have to let you go on that point.

You could only be a man & say that.

Reply
Apr 8, 2014 21:08:16   #
no propaganda please Loc: moon orbiting the third rock from the sun
 
Iggy Rat wrote:
lol!!I.I.I... uhh... trying to remember... uhh. I had an opinion, once. Is that okay?


By all means have opinions about everything. For instance if you say cats are better pets, and I say no dogs are better, we would be both right, because there is no right or wrong answer to that opinion. On the other hand you say some people have a right to play the "Knockout game" because their great grandfathers were slaves, and I say" no that is attempted murder and they should be put in jail " there should be no debate that the crime is attempted murder. However the activists will consider the Knockout game justified, for past wrongs. That's where moral relativism comes in, not whether you prefer tea and I prefer coffee.
By the way, I believe that most politicians are manipulating self serving piles of human excrement, but you are welcome to have another opinion and that is just fine.

Reply
Apr 8, 2014 21:54:26   #
Armageddun Loc: The show me state
 
Alicia wrote:
*******************
The fallacy in your argument is that you are seeing only black and white, right or wrong. Why does it have to be "this" or "that" all the way. Communication is much improved when those involved do not believe themselves to be threatened. At least considering another view is what will bring about a consensus which will be right for both parties. That's the way war can be avoided.


Mankind consist of the wise, the foolish, and the semi-wise (or semi-foolish). The wise--- what little they do
know they know that they know; and the much they do not know they know that they do not know.
The fools----what little they do know, they know that they know; and the much they do not know they know
that they know. The semi-wise, the majority of folk, know what little they do know, but are wholly ignorant
of the much they do not know. Ivan Panin

Reply
 
 
Apr 9, 2014 00:08:38   #
Alicia Loc: NYC
 
Ve'hoe wrote:
Because,,, compromise,, has led historically, to greater compromise, and eventually to a place where the majority of people never agreed to go........compromise, is not what is happening,,, one side is taking advantage of the others willingness to discuss and their "compromise" has lead to aggression on the left....

Ie: the firing of the mozilla CEO....the leftists, who tout free speech,,, attacked when they had the power,,, and became what they claimed they hated and were fighting against....

That is what happens, when you know good and well, that what is in your heart, and what you INTEND to do, is not what you agree to,,, and that is the tactic of the left,,, now, I am not interested in "how fair" you think the swing of the pendulum is.
Because,,, compromise,, has led historically, to g... (show quote)

***********
You are always stating that you are being attacked and lied to by the left. You also see the Right as sitting back and accepting all. Pretty weak group of people if you're correctl.

I feel for you because you have insulated yourself so that you are unable to see that compromising is the only way to advance this country within itself.

Congress has done exactly what they said they would do in this administration - NOTHING -- that is excpet for attempting to get rid of the ACA forty-something times (and they failed at that).

I was under the impression that our "representatives" were supposed to Represent their constituencies. At any rate, their job is to "help" improve on this country. If they're not doing that, they're getting paid for NOTHING. This is what you complain over about those who don't have jobs. Congressmen are collecting a salary and not doing their jobs. How long do you think the could get away with that in private industry? Think about it.

Reply
Apr 9, 2014 00:49:14   #
Alicia Loc: NYC
 
Searching wrote:
Funny how that works, isn't it. :lol: I have come to understand that "winning" is high over rated, that "understanding" is far more important. Ran across a quote the other day that "might" apply here. "Giving up doesn't mean you are weak. Sometimes, it means that you are strong enough to let go."

**************
I like it.

Reply
Apr 9, 2014 01:03:04   #
Alicia Loc: NYC
 
no propaganda please wrote:
By all means have opinions about everything. For instance if you say cats are better pets, and I say no dogs are better, we would be both right, because there is no right or wrong answer to that opinion. On the other hand you say some people have a right to play the "Knockout game" because their great grandfathers were slaves, and I say" no that is attempted murder and they should be put in jail " there should be no debate that the crime is attempted murder. However the activists will consider the Knockout game justified, for past wrongs. That's where moral relativism comes in, not whether you prefer tea and I prefer coffee.
By the way, I believe that most politicians are manipulating self serving piles of human excrement, but you are welcome to have another opinion and that is just fine.
By all means have opinions about everything. For ... (show quote)

******************

:thumbup: :D :thumbup: :D :thumbup: :D :thumbup:

Reply
Apr 9, 2014 01:55:42   #
Iggy Rat Loc: Lost in America
 
no propaganda please wrote:
By all means have opinions about everything. For instance if you say cats are better pets, and I say no dogs are better, we would be both right, because there is no right or wrong answer to that opinion. On the other hand you say some people have a right to play the "Knockout game" because their great grandfathers were slaves, and I say" no that is attempted murder and they should be put in jail " there should be no debate that the crime is attempted murder. However the activists will consider the Knockout game justified, for past wrongs. That's where moral relativism comes in, not whether you prefer tea and I prefer coffee.
By the way, I believe that most politicians are manipulating self serving piles of human excrement, but you are welcome to have another opinion and that is just fine.
By all means have opinions about everything. For ... (show quote)

How could anyone with two functional brain cells to rub together possibly dispute that?

Reply
 
 
Apr 9, 2014 09:59:49   #
Ve'hoe
 
What are you talking about??

I dont beleive you "feel" for anyone, if you deny that the left is pushing a very aggressive platform, that is recently become "aimed" at the religious right,, who DO not retaliate, in any way like the left does, through Occupy movements, riots, etc.

But you are rationalizing when you claim that isnt happening, as well as that the "right" and the "religious" are learning from the left, "what it takes" to be taken serious in politics and/or "compromise" as you call it.

For the left, it is clear, that compromise, is doing what they want and to hell with anyone elses opinion. Like I said, when the pendulum swings, I will turn a deafened ear, to your complaints, and it always turns.

You get what you give, and you and the left have, "radicalized" in your approach to politics, do you really think the other side is just going to sit back and watch, saying nothing?



Alicia wrote:
***********
You are always stating that you are being attacked and lied to by the left. You also see the Right as sitting back and accepting all. Pretty weak group of people if you're correctl.

I feel for you because you have insulated yourself so that you are unable to see that compromising is the only way to advance this country within itself.

Congress has done exactly what they said they would do in this administration - NOTHING -- that is excpet for attempting to get rid of the ACA forty-something times (and they failed at that).

I was under the impression that our "representatives" were supposed to Represent their constituencies. At any rate, their job is to "help" improve on this country. If they're not doing that, they're getting paid for NOTHING. This is what you complain over about those who don't have jobs. Congressmen are collecting a salary and not doing their jobs. How long do you think the could get away with that in private industry? Think about it.
*********** br You are always stating that you are... (show quote)

Reply
Apr 9, 2014 10:23:44   #
Tyster
 
Alicia wrote:
***********
You are always stating that you are being attacked and lied to by the left. You also see the Right as sitting back and accepting all. Pretty weak group of people if you're correctl.

I feel for you because you have insulated yourself so that you are unable to see that compromising is the only way to advance this country within itself.

Congress has done exactly what they said they would do in this administration - NOTHING -- that is excpet for attempting to get rid of the ACA forty-something times (and they failed at that).

I was under the impression that our "representatives" were supposed to Represent their constituencies. At any rate, their job is to "help" improve on this country. If they're not doing that, they're getting paid for NOTHING. This is what you complain over about those who don't have jobs. Congressmen are collecting a salary and not doing their jobs. How long do you think the could get away with that in private industry? Think about it.
*********** br You are always stating that you are... (show quote)



Compromise? Do you even understand the process? How many times did the House attempt to "compromise" with the White House on the government shut down? Before the shutdown, the House offered to approve the budget providing the Individual mandate was delayed in the same manner that Obama had delayed the employer mandate. The White House refused to budge and the government was shut down. Six weeks later when his prize achievement was failing miserably he delayed the individual mandate at his whim. So why couldn't he have done that and avoided the government shutdown.

The representatives aren't working? Sorry, my dear, but the House has produced quite a bit of legislation that Reid, in the Senate, won't even bring to the floor. Obviously, anything sent from the House is going to lean to the right... and Democrats control the Senate. So why not bring them up and vote against the bills? Because if they did that they would procedurally have to meet with a House delegations and... you guessed it, Compromise!

Reply
Apr 9, 2014 11:35:09   #
Augustus Greatorex Loc: NE
 
Tyster wrote:
Ideas are still the interpretation of the fact. If, it is a fact that a car is red (per the manufacturer's report), it is not your idea that it is red. You are stating an existing fact.

The presentation of the fact which gives it an interpretation - Orange-red, ugly, beautiful, appealing... is your opinion or idea. It is based on the fact, but isn't the fact itself.


An opinion is a form of an idea. But any concept passing through your brain is an idea. We use symbols such as words to communicate ideas. If ideas are opinions, then no facts can be communicated, ever.

Reply
Apr 9, 2014 12:28:08   #
Tyster
 
Augustus Greatorex wrote:
An opinion is a form of an idea. But any concept passing through your brain is an idea. We use symbols such as words to communicate ideas. If ideas are opinions, then no facts can be communicated, ever.



idea
&#8194; Use Idea in a sentence
i·de·a
[ahy-dee-uh, ahy-deeuh] Show IPA
noun
1.
any conception existing in the mind as a result of mental understanding, awareness, or activity.
2.
a thought, conception, or notion: That is an excellent idea.
3.
an impression: He gave me a general idea of how he plans to run the department.
4.
an opinion, view, or belief: His ideas on raising children are certainly strange.
5.
a plan of action; an intention: the idea of becoming an engineer.


Per the dictionary definition, expressions emanating a fact would not be an idea.

Reply
 
 
Apr 9, 2014 12:53:59   #
Augustus Greatorex Loc: NE
 
Tyster wrote:
idea
&#8194; Use Idea in a sentence
i·de·a
{ahy-dee-uh, ahy-deeuh} Show IPA
noun
1.
any conception existing in the mind as a result of mental understanding, awareness, or activity.
2.
a thought, conception, or notion: That is an excellent idea.
3.
an impression: He gave me a general idea of how he plans to run the department.
4.
an opinion, view, or belief: His ideas on raising children are certainly strange.
5.
a plan of action; an intention: the idea of becoming an engineer.


Per the dictionary definition, expressions emanating a fact would not be an idea.
idea br &#8194; Use Idea in a sentence br i·de... (show quote)


Really?

The expression of a conception existing in your mind such as "Earth orbits the Sun," is not the expression of an idea? I suppose I don't possess your reading skills, because I see definition #1 as contradictory to your position.

Reply
Apr 9, 2014 13:13:24   #
Tyster
 
Augustus Greatorex wrote:
Really?

The expression of a conception existing in your mind such as "Earth orbits the Sun," is not the expression of an idea? I suppose I don't possess your reading skills, because I see definition #1 as contradictory to your position.



What is your point? #1 refers to the conception - a fact is not a conception... it is a given. How does this exercise in semantics jive with the title of the thread?

Reply
Apr 10, 2014 00:32:31   #
Hungry Freaks
 
lpnmajor wrote:
All those who say liberals are idiots, are correct. All those who say conservatives are stupid, are correct. Those who say Republicans are corrupt are correct, as are those who claim the Democrats are as well. Whatever the claim about whatever issue, ideology, cause, person, group or concept, are always correct. No one is ever wrong.

All ideas are based on some theory or assumption. We used to experiment, discuss and try to DISPROVE such ideas, before accepting them as fact. We are no longer required to do so. Every idea must be accepted as correct immediately. Discussion of the merits or demerits of an idea or concept are no longer required. Now, we only have to defend it, by attacking everyone else.

Now that we know that everyone is correct, no one can be wrong, which leaves us with no recourse for finding common ground. With 300,000,000 million people, all who have some ideas, all of which are correct, and few are in common with anyone else, we have - chaos. For people, with differing views, to come to a consensus - someone is going to have to be wrong, at least a little bit. To compromise means to admit wrongness and that cannot be allowed. Admitting that some idea, or portion thereof, is wrong, is to admit total defeat. Agreeing with someone else, for the sake of "common purpose", is to surrender to a superior idea, making you wrong.

It does not seem to occur to anyone - to change their minds about something - because that would require admitting that they were wrong to begin with. Todays society will not allow anyone to be wrong. Oh, the OTHER person is always wrong, to be sure, but WE are never wrong. Admitting that WE are wrong, about anything - means the other person wins and that cannot be allowed. We never lose, unless it's a war then we ALWAYS lose, but we were correct the whole time.
All those who say liberals are idiots, are correct... (show quote)


***********************************

Well stated. It also follows what Will Rogers said:

"Everybody's ignorant, just on different subjects."

Reply
Apr 10, 2014 01:48:18   #
Iggy Rat Loc: Lost in America
 
Ve'hoe wrote:
What are you talking about??

I dont beleive you "feel" for anyone, if you deny that the left is pushing a very aggressive platform, that is recently become "aimed" at the religious right,, who DO not retaliate, in any way like the left does, through Occupy movements, riots, etc.

But you are rationalizing when you claim that isnt happening, as well as that the "right" and the "religious" are learning from the left, "what it takes" to be taken serious in politics and/or "compromise" as you call it.

For the left, it is clear, that compromise, is doing what they want and to hell with anyone elses opinion. Like I said, when the pendulum swings, I will turn a deafened ear, to your complaints, and it always turns.

You get what you give, and you and the left have, "radicalized" in your approach to politics, do you really think the other side is just going to sit back and watch, saying nothing?
What are you talking about?? br br I dont beleiv... (show quote)



You're so right. I'm a conservative pacifist. I read history. The precedents are there. We've swung so far to the left (although we're not done yet) that when we swing back to the right, we'll wind up with the blue laws and prohibition. Maybe veils. That's right-wing, too.

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