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Apr 8, 2014 13:37:46   #
Augustus Greatorex Loc: NE
 
Tyster wrote:
When you speak about facts, there is usually not a lot of room for debate. Is the car red or blue? Is it raining or not? But when you speak of ideas, each of us forms our opinions based on our frame of reference... our personal history and experiences, specific interests. Thus, while opinions between people may have similarities, they are individual. My opinion might be right for me, but wrong for you and vice versa.

When we share our opinions, this should be kept in mind by both sides. Just because you came to an opinion 180 degrees opposite of mine, doesn't make you stupid... or me an idiot. When I share an opinion here it is just that.. an opinion. I throw it out to see what perception others have on the idea. I am open to modification, but am totally turned off when attacked with slurs. At that point, I shut out the opposition. If you cannot approach a discussion with civil discourse, then we have nothing to talk about.
When you speak about facts, there is usually not a... (show quote)


Are you claiming ideas are not facts?

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Apr 8, 2014 15:02:30   #
rodulfo-tardo
 
Preordained by politically-correct, group-think, the self-policing police state, the ascending Fascist One Party State.

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Apr 8, 2014 15:12:58   #
Tyster
 
Augustus Greatorex wrote:
Are you claiming ideas are not facts?



An idea or an opinion, by definition, are not facts. You may base your opinion on known facts, but if it is merely a fact, then it really isn't an opinion.

Fact: The car is red.

Opinion: The car is an ugly red.

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Apr 8, 2014 15:13:45   #
Tyster
 
Tyster wrote:
An idea or an opinion, by definition, are not facts. You may base your opinion on known facts, but if it is merely a fact, then it really isn't an opinion.

Fact: The car is red.

Opinion: The car is an ugly red.

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Apr 8, 2014 15:18:22   #
rodulfo-tardo
 
Red is Red, unless color blindness makes it all gray.

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Apr 8, 2014 15:19:40   #
Augustus Greatorex Loc: NE
 
Tyster wrote:
An idea or an opinion, by definition, are not facts. You may base your opinion on known facts, but if it is merely a fact, then it really isn't an opinion.

Fact: The car is red.

Opinion: The car is an ugly red.


Define red. Can a dark orange, be considered red?

Because if it can, the car's color is only your opinion and not fact at all.

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Apr 8, 2014 15:32:04   #
Augustus Greatorex Loc: NE
 
Tyster wrote:
An idea or an opinion, by definition, are not facts. You may base your opinion on known facts, but if it is merely a fact, then it really isn't an opinion.

Fact: The car is red.

Opinion: The car is an ugly red.


Ideas are communicated, whether they are facts or opinions.

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Apr 8, 2014 15:44:31   #
Tyster
 
rodulfo-tardo wrote:
Red is Red, unless color blindness makes it all gray.


Even so, it is still red. Your interpretation, i.e. being color blind, is your interpretation of the color.

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Apr 8, 2014 15:50:15   #
Tyster
 
Augustus Greatorex wrote:
Ideas are communicated, whether they are facts or opinions.



Ideas are still the interpretation of the fact. If, it is a fact that a car is red (per the manufacturer's report), it is not your idea that it is red. You are stating an existing fact.

The presentation of the fact which gives it an interpretation - Orange-red, ugly, beautiful, appealing... is your opinion or idea. It is based on the fact, but isn't the fact itself.

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Apr 8, 2014 16:06:11   #
Searching Loc: Rural Southwest VA
 
Old_Gringo wrote:
The current generations have definitely not learned the life lessons lived by their progenitors. What makes you think your children will. God forbid they adopt your life's experiences to live by.


Well now, since my time on OPP is almost down to the wire, I don't feel quite as constrained to "watch my words" -- HOWEVER, I shall not dignify your lack of good manners in posting a response to such judgmental "whatever." Don't know what I ever did to YOU personally to elicit such a response, but "whatever."

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Apr 8, 2014 16:06:17   #
Searching Loc: Rural Southwest VA
 
Old_Gringo wrote:
The current generations have definitely not learned the life lessons lived by their progenitors. What makes you think your children will. God forbid they adopt your life's experiences to live by.


Well now, since my time on OPP is almost down to the wire, I don't feel quite as constrained to "watch my words" -- HOWEVER, I shall not dignify your lack of good manners by posting a response to such judgmental "whatever." Don't know what I ever did to YOU personally to elicit such a response, but "whatever." If you have a personal axe to grind, kindly take it to PM.

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Apr 8, 2014 17:29:36   #
PoppaGringo Loc: Muslim City, Mexifornia, B.R.
 
Searching wrote:
Well now, since my time on OPP is almost down to the wire, I don't feel quite as constrained to "watch my words" -- HOWEVER, I shall not dignify your lack of good manners by posting a response to such judgmental "whatever." Don't know what I ever did to YOU personally to elicit such a response, but "whatever." If you have a personal axe to grind, kindly take it to PM.


I owe you an apology. I didn't mean you personally, I meant your generation.

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Apr 8, 2014 17:45:36   #
Searching Loc: Rural Southwest VA
 
Old_Gringo wrote:
I owe you an apology. I didn't mean you personally, I meant your generation.


You don't owe me an apology, but I "can" quit hyperventilating into that paper bag now.:wink: No harm done. Thanks for clarifying what was inadvertently left out of your post. I was truly taken by surprise by your response. However, I should apologize for my "tart" response. I don't like dropping pebbles of anger into the "Pool of Life." Never know how far the ripples travel.

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Apr 8, 2014 18:33:06   #
Floyd Brown Loc: Milwaukee WI
 
lpnmajor wrote:
They will learn that, because they'll be living with the results. During the rise of the Roman Empire, much land was claimed by defeating one tribe after another, which was easily done. Why? because the tribes could never band together to fight and had they done so, Rome would have lost. The tribes could never unite - because they squabbled over who was to lead the united tribes. Pride and arrogance won more for Rome than all the legions put together. Interesting enough, that was also part of Rome's downfall, added to that apathy and a sense of entitlement.

All that to explain why division is so important - to some. Should the majority of Americans come to a consensus, there'd be some changes wrought, which would NOT benefit politicians and their big money pals. Monopolies would be broken and the Congress would become employees again instead of masters. Nope, common purpose and majority rule CANNOT be allowed to happen. There is too much money and power at stake.

I also mentioned Rome's downfall because you mentioned history repeating. The US empire is riding the same historical train as Rome did and I expect the results to be similar. The sense of entitlement ( NOT welfare ) that we have, the inattentiveness, the apathy, the whining, the abrogation of responsibility, all lead the people to sit by and let a select few determine the fate of this country.
They will learn that, because they'll be living wi... (show quote)


As always you have a sound grasp on the issues at hand.

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Apr 8, 2014 18:36:08   #
PoppaGringo Loc: Muslim City, Mexifornia, B.R.
 
Floyd Brown wrote:
As always you have a sound grasp on the issues at hand.


:thumbup:

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