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Just a thought on Socialism
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Sep 3, 2019 15:22:36   #
Floyd Brown Loc: Milwaukee WI
 
JoyV wrote:
And what generates the money in the 1st place? Income taxes. What generates the jobs which provide the incomes? If you want more gold, killing or punishing the golden goose is stupid. Just because the goose keeps a portion of the gold for himself.


Have you any notion or idea of just who holds most of the wealth?

How about wages have not increased nearly as much as profits have over the last 40 years.
Do you pay any attention to the information about how few control the most wealth?
You have been supporting the politics that have made this all possible.

Who keeps getting the tax breaks under right-wing government?

Just keep drinking the Kool-Aid.
Just remember that their are as many or more voters who are independent as there are members of any political party.

Reply
Sep 3, 2019 15:54:31   #
badbob85037
 
JFlorio wrote:
He’s beyond help. He should start his 12 step program. “Hi. My name is airforceone, tdsnest and cowardly drunk. I am truly stupid. Thank you”.


AF1 they say admitting a problem is the first step in solving it but just remember there is no cure for stupid.

Reply
Sep 3, 2019 16:30:45   #
JoyV
 
Floyd Brown wrote:
Have you any notion or idea of just who holds most of the wealth?

How about wages have not increased nearly as much as profits have over the last 40 years.
Do you pay any attention to the information about how few control the most wealth?
You have been supporting the politics that have made this all possible.

Who keeps getting the tax breaks under right-wing government?

Just keep drinking the Kool-Aid.
Just remember that their are as many or more voters who are independent as there are members of any political party.
Have you any notion or idea of just who holds most... (show quote)


And who gets the tax breaks under left wing government? The same people you are railing about that's who!

Redistribution of wealth has never worked in the long term. Whenever someone tries to even the playing field by increasing taxes or imposing harder regulations on the wealthy, it is the small business which is hit hard while the wealthy businesses either use loopholes or outsource. They do not suffer. Jobs are reduced and the employees and small businesses suffer. That the very wealthy are out for their own interests I take as a given. The problem is what can be done about it without harming employees and small businesses?

Imposed higher wages sounds great until the employee who use to get by with their old wages, and applaud the higher wages; have their hours cut or lose their job. Sounding good is not a reason to apply new laws, rules, or regulations. It should be the starting point to research the long term consequences of making the desired change.

Wages increase when employees are scarce. Whether it be because the job in question has fewer qualified people who can do it, or because businesses are expanding and more employees are needed. Then companies have to compete for the employees.

Reply
 
 
Sep 3, 2019 16:46:39   #
emarine
 
JoyV wrote:
And who gets the tax breaks under left wing government? The same people you are railing about that's who!

Redistribution of wealth has never worked in the long term. Whenever someone tries to even the playing field by increasing taxes or imposing harder regulations on the wealthy, it is the small business which is hit hard while the wealthy businesses either use loopholes or outsource. They do not suffer. Jobs are reduced and the employees and small businesses suffer. That the very wealthy are out for their own interests I take as a given. The problem is what can be done about it without harming employees and small businesses?

Imposed higher wages sounds great until the employee who use to get by with their old wages, and applaud the higher wages; have their hours cut or lose their job. Sounding good is not a reason to apply new laws, rules, or regulations. It should be the starting point to research the long term consequences of making the desired change.

Wages increase when employees are scarce. Whether it be because the job in question has fewer qualified people who can do it, or because businesses are expanding and more employees are needed. Then companies have to compete for the employees.
And who gets the tax breaks under left wing govern... (show quote)




The top 26 wealthiest Americans have accumulated more money than 50% of all Americans have combined … while working wages are stagnant for decades the wealthiest rake in 200 to 2000%... they should pay in much more into the system...

Reply
Sep 3, 2019 17:25:16   #
Floyd Brown Loc: Milwaukee WI
 
JoyV wrote:
And who gets the tax breaks under left wing government? The same people you are railing about that's who!

Redistribution of wealth has never worked in the long term. Whenever someone tries to even the playing field by increasing taxes or imposing harder regulations on the wealthy, it is the small business which is hit hard while the wealthy businesses either use loopholes or outsource. They do not suffer. Jobs are reduced and the employees and small businesses suffer. That the very wealthy are out for their own interests I take as a given. The problem is what can be done about it without harming employees and small businesses?

Imposed higher wages sounds great until the employee who use to get by with their old wages, and applaud the higher wages; have their hours cut or lose their job. Sounding good is not a reason to apply new laws, rules, or regulations. It should be the starting point to research the long term consequences of making the desired change.

Wages increase when employees are scarce. Whether it be because the job in question has fewer qualified people who can do it, or because businesses are expanding and more employees are needed. Then companies have to compete for the employees.
And who gets the tax breaks under left wing govern... (show quote)


There is no two ways about this issue:
Wages for the average worker have loss ground over the last 40 years.
Either the problem leaves you getting less than you deserve or you are getting more than you deserve.
You are either a victim or perpetuator of the scheme.

It either costs you or you gain from it.

As to the small business owner.
If the person they are looking for to buy what they sell has more money it is much better for him than his banker getting more. Or for the producer to get higher profits.

There is too much interest in the person at the top of the food chain getting more & each person down that chain gaining less.

All to soon people miss that most of the wealth keeps going up the chain & staying there.
It is all a big Ponzi chain. The first ones gains big & each one following gets less.

Well there can never be a truly fair & just system when playing by the rules of Ponzi schemes.
Few winners many losers.

You may think your potion in the chain will serve you well.

I think there is going to be a big awaking & many Ponzi schemes will fail.
This will be bad for those in first & an awakening for most others.

Reply
Sep 3, 2019 17:54:09   #
Floyd Brown Loc: Milwaukee WI
 
JoyV wrote:
And who gets the tax breaks under left wing government? The same people you are railing about that's who!

Redistribution of wealth has never worked in the long term. Whenever someone tries to even the playing field by increasing taxes or imposing harder regulations on the wealthy, it is the small business which is hit hard while the wealthy businesses either use loopholes or outsource. They do not suffer. Jobs are reduced and the employees and small businesses suffer. That the very wealthy are out for their own interests I take as a given. The problem is what can be done about it without harming employees and small businesses?

Imposed higher wages sounds great until the employee who use to get by with their old wages, and applaud the higher wages; have their hours cut or lose their job. Sounding good is not a reason to apply new laws, rules, or regulations. It should be the starting point to research the long term consequences of making the desired change.

Wages increase when employees are scarce. Whether it be because the job in question has fewer qualified people who can do it, or because businesses are expanding and more employees are needed. Then companies have to compete for the employees.
And who gets the tax breaks under left wing govern... (show quote)


I get a kick out of the redistribution of wealth.
A system where money invested is taxed at a lower weight than money earn with physical effort.
A system that will always end up with the few having the most.

Then hearing people blame the poor man in the street for robbing them.

If you feel that you are not getting your fair share of the pie you need to check on just who has hold of that pie & cutting it.
Let me be clear it is not who you blame it on.
You sure have guts going down that road.

Reply
Sep 3, 2019 17:56:16   #
Floyd Brown Loc: Milwaukee WI
 
emarine wrote:
The top 26 wealthiest Americans have accumulated more money than 50% of all Americans have combined … while working wages are stagnant for decades the wealthiest rake in 200 to 2000%... they should pay in much more into the system...


Another person who knows what is really going on.
Thank you.

Reply
 
 
Sep 3, 2019 17:57:18   #
JoyV
 
Floyd Brown wrote:
There is no two ways about this issue:
Wages for the average worker have loss ground over the last 40 years.
Either the problem leaves you getting less than you deserve or you are getting more than you deserve.
You are either a victim or perpetuator of the scheme.

It either costs you or you gain from it.

As to the small business owner.
If the person they are looking for to buy what they sell has more money it is much better for him than his banker getting more. Or for the producer to get higher profits.

There is too much interest in the person at the top of the food chain getting more & each person down that chain gaining less.

All to soon people miss that most of the wealth keeps going up the chain & staying there.
It is all a big Ponzi chain. The first ones gains big & each one following gets less.

Well there can never be a truly fair & just system when playing by the rules of Ponzi schemes.
Few winners many losers.

You may think your potion in the chain will serve you well.

I think there is going to be a big awaking & many Ponzi schemes will fail.
This will be bad for those in first & an awakening for most others.
There is no two ways about this issue: br Wages fo... (show quote)


But every time regulations or tax hikes are made to target big businesses, it is the small businesses who get hit the hardest. And job losses also occur. I agree that there has been a widening gap over several decades between the finances of the rich and poor. But every time a policy is put in place to try to correct the issue through increased taxes and regulations, it is the small businesses and middle class who suffer. Instead of looking to punish those who are wealthy, no matter how unfair it looks; a better way is to reward them for providing more jobs to Americans and not abroad. While imposing consequences, not for big profits, but for outsourcing jobs. Making American companies pay tariffs to bring their foreign made goods home for sale; is one way to do so.

Reply
Sep 3, 2019 18:07:22   #
Floyd Brown Loc: Milwaukee WI
 
JoyV wrote:
But every time regulations or tax hikes are made to target big businesses, it is the small businesses who get hit the hardest. And job losses also occur. I agree that there has been a widening gap over several decades between the finances of the rich and poor. But every time a policy is put in place to try to correct the issue through increased taxes and regulations, it is the small businesses and middle class who suffer. Instead of looking to punish those who are wealthy, no matter how unfair it looks; a better way is to reward them for providing more jobs to Americans and not abroad. While imposing consequences, not for big profits, but for outsourcing jobs. Making American companies pay tariffs to bring their foreign made goods home for sale; is one way to do so.
But every time regulations or tax hikes are made t... (show quote)


This is the capitalistic way of doing things.
You need to get out more that you put in.
The greater the profit the better.

The game is all about drawing the wealth from the bottom.
If you are in the middle you have to keep passing more to the top.
If there is less at the bottom to draw on there is less for you to keep.
The top is a greedy thing to feed.

So as the poor gets poor the middle has less to pass on.
So some of the middles gain has to be passed on.
Then some of the middle becomes poorer.

You like this system so perhaps if your not ending up with you fair share you should look to where that money is really going.

Reply
Sep 3, 2019 18:19:36   #
JFlorio Loc: Seminole Florida
 
Except for your constant whining I have never heard your replacement for capitalism. What economic policy would you employ?
Floyd Brown wrote:
This is the capitalistic way of doing things.
You need to get out more that you put in.
The greater the profit the better.

The game is all about drawing the wealth from the bottom.
If you are in the middle you have to keep passing more to the top.
If there is less at the bottom to draw on there is less for you to keep.
The top is a greedy thing to feed.

So as the poor gets poor the middle has less to pass on.
So some of the middles gain has to be passed on.
Then some of the middle becomes poorer.

You like this system so perhaps if your not ending up with you fair share you should look to where that money is really going.
This is the capitalistic way of doing things. br Y... (show quote)

Reply
Sep 3, 2019 18:33:19   #
Cuda2020
 
Airforceone wrote:
No and I have no problem subsidizing the small independent farmers so don’t even say that garbage. My problem is the commercial farmers are getting most of the farm subsidies.
But I have a problem with Trump creating a crisis then pays off the farmers for a self inflicted problem using socialism.
Now farm

Now again you miss the basis of the topic and you love farm subsidies and that is socialism. So Trump creates a crisis and uses socialism to pay off the farmers.

Oh I find your comment again lacking any common sense not allowing a socialist country like China to hose us. So Trump levies Tariffs tells his base that China is paying the tariffs when the American consumer is paying in the form of higher cost for China imports but its difficult for a Trump supporters to grasp that concept. Now as far as China being socialist they are a form of socialism but they are communist but also they have private enterprise and markets that dominate their daily life.

But China has socialism just like Trump when he gives away our tax dollars to the commercial farmers for a crisis Trump created with his tariffs that created a world wide trade war.

So the we the people comment, you people have no problem with Trump tariffs creating a world wide trade war increasing the trade deficit from$628 billion to $864 billion using a socialist program to pay off farmers so the hosing got worse.
Not to mention the tariffs have increased inflation.
No and I have no problem subsidizing the small ind... (show quote)


Yes it all comes down to, we the people, we the people are the ones who pay, we pay for the subsidies and we pay for the higher prices at the register, and we pay for higher taxes, seems to me, we the people, are the ones in a lose-lose? Tell me again, who are the winners?

Reply
 
 
Sep 3, 2019 18:38:25   #
Cuda2020
 
JFlorio wrote:
Except for your constant whining I have never heard your replacement for capitalism. What economic policy would you employ?


One where 1% doesn't hold 90% of the wealth. The new Capitalistic Caste system at its finest.

Reply
Sep 3, 2019 18:43:52   #
emarine
 
JFlorio wrote:
Except for your constant whining I have never heard your replacement for capitalism. What economic policy would you employ?




It's not about replacing capitalism J buddy... the free market is the only way... but there has to be a better balance on wealth distribution … the wealthy can lobby special interests... unions are a thing from the past... the balance goes to the top 1%... they control almost all the wealth ...

Reply
Sep 3, 2019 18:44:17   #
JFlorio Loc: Seminole Florida
 
Barracuda2020 wrote:
Yes it all comes down to, we the people, we the people are the ones who pay, we pay for the subsidies and we pay for the higher prices at the register, seems to me, we the people, are the ones in a lose-lose?


And it always will. Did the people not pay before Trump? We have been giving subsidies to the rich for decades. We have been subsidizing the poor for even longer. Probably why generations stay poor. I am against crony capitalism. I am against government handouts except for the truly needy and disabled. It will be hard in a world economy to get the rich to give up more. They can now move and offshore their jobs. I'd like to punish those companies that leave the U.S. for cheaper labor by taxing the hell out of their products if they try to bring their products back in to this country. Also no more corporate tax breaks for corporations that open up new businesses in other countries and then "loan" said companies capital. Trouble is; politicians
need lot's of money to run. They promise, in legislation, breaks to the rich to curry their favor.
Left out of this conversation, especially by liberals is spending. You could confiscate all the wealth from the rich in the U.S. and wouldn't put a dent in the national debt. All you'd do is make more poor.

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Sep 3, 2019 18:48:09   #
Floyd Brown Loc: Milwaukee WI
 
JFlorio wrote:
Except for your constant whining I have never heard your replacement for capitalism. What economic policy would you employ?


Well there are people in positions of leaders ship that already do the right things.

But our system rewards those with the most best.
It is like giving a person an inch & they take a mile.

I say it is not about replacing capitalism.
But tempering it with some liberalism.
We will never get the complete best of both.

So we keep the best parts of both.
As long as we keep mixing the parts we may come close.

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