debeda

very nice of you to say so...and right back atcha - except the woman part I mean

rumitoid

You are a real treat in your posts; reflective and not reactive. A joy rarely seen in my many years here. Thank you.

tbutkovich

There are many scientists who claim we are entering an “ice age” If true, wouldn’t that be a surprise especially after everyone has just “accepted and paid the heavy cost of the carbon tax” to reduce our countries carbon footprint “only to learn that the earth is going through a cooling down period.” Should that occur, the government will spread the word telling the taxpayer, we have a cooling crisis, and every country needs to increase their carbon output. It would be “like watching a dog chasing its tail!” Such Folly!

debeda

Left me speechless. Thank you for the kind words

Mikeyavelli

Global warming is a ploy to starve America of energy. Cut off our fuel, and America becomes weak enough to get absorbed into the borderless one government world with Islam as the policing force.
Climate change is a weapon.
Man cannot change the weather. It's an old medicine man trick. Give me beads and I will make it rain.
People are still falling for it.

rumitoid

Volcanoes can change the weather: how? By throwing up a bunch of crap into the atmosphere that blocks the sun, bringing an ice age. We can do the same, but through warming, and as there is no precedent pro or can for you to go on to state "Man cannot change the weather," an open mind to what may be a real threat to our future seems appropriate. I am not sure either way, and I am not a climatologist, yet that doesn't matter. Making it politics may kill us. Renewable, green, energy is steadily becoming more efficient and cheaper. And no one is cutting off our fuel.

EconomistDon

Rumi, I could make the case that I need a Rolls Royce; it is good for my future and my children's future. But is it cost effective ---- NO. You can't just say these green ideas are great; let's do it. You must consider what is cost effective and what is cost prohibitive. Much of green energy is still cost prohibitive. I watched solar cell prices for ten years before I jumped in. It was cost effective for me because I have the technical know-how to install them myself. Others who must pay to have it done will not find it so cost effective. I live free -- I pump water from the ground with free electricity, I heat and cool my home with free geothermal energy, and I power my electronics with free electricity from my solar array. Not many people are in a position to do what I did. They are trapped with burning fossil fuels, because that is still more cost effective for them. Rumi, we must look to the future for our kids, and do what is right for them; but we must not bankrupt the system trying to make "green" happen.

BTW Rumi, have you installed solar or wind yet? If not, why not? Could it be because it is not yet cost effective for you? Are you just shooting off your mouth?

EconomistDon

But Kevy, temperatures are not "clearly" increasing. They haven't "clearly" increased since the peak in 1998. Alarmists claim that they are still increasing by fudging land-based temperature readings. But they can't go on claiming that temperatures are rising a thousandth of a degree each year. Instruments are not precise enough to show that small increase. In reality, temperatures have been flat since the peak in 1998 when solar output peaked. Its all about the sun!!!!!! Why do you lefties have so much trouble believing the SUN warms the earth? Can you not feel the warmth on your face when you go outside on a sunny morning? Can you not recognize that temperatures go up during the day when the sun is shining?

Kevy, the lakes have more ice because we are in a global cooling period that could last till 2050 or beyond. If we are lucky, we will not experience an solar minimum like the Maunder Minimum that brought on the Little Ice Age from 1350 through 1750.

rumitoid

Fossil fuels are presently, though arguably, more cost effective, yet renewable energy sources are getting more so and the technology will only improve, and never end, if we allow it to go forward and not make it a futile us and them issue, with fear clinging to oil. Thank you for your civil and informative post. Very appreciated. We need more here like you.

Mikeyavelli

These lefties don't give a mueller about the climate, they know it's just a fear tactic weapon to weaken America. Don't drive, fly, eat meat, in other words, become Kenya.
I will not entertain the idea that I am bad for the planet. I bring nothing, I leave nothing. I am the planet, with no obligations to those who would rule me.

redpill Loc: Oregon - not PDX

Interesting info. The debate is not worth the time though. There is nothing that can be shared here that will change anyone's minds. I'm with you. It's a hoax.

Anecdote: As, ex-Michigander, I remember the Ice-Breakers having to make paths for the freighters out of Duluth all the way to Niagara. That was in the 60's, nearly 60 years ago. Wonder if some of hoaxers will ever read anything other than MSM ... If not, then BOOO!

Happishark

"Global Warming" is a misnomer that has been abandoned by everyone except, apparently, folks who continue to resist the idea that human beings have caused the current climatological castastrophe, which most everyone these days more accurately refers to as "climate change." The increasing frequency worldwide of extreme weather events, including massive winter storms and record low temperatures, is compelling evidence we have begun to experience the effects of climate change.

The science that explains the overall warming of the atmosphere--the "greenhouse effect" (for which the evidence now is overwhelming and incontrovertible)--is pretty easy to explain and to understand. The myriad effects the steady heating of the atmosphere have on climate and weather are more complicated, and have given rise to a lot of perplexity, even among people who are pretty smart. You're not the only one who's confused.

I, myself, have a limited grasp on the causes of the arctic spells we've had in recent winters, but I think I can explain in an oversimplified, but basically accurate, way what most meteorologists and climate scientists say is behind them.

Jet streams are narrow, meandering bands of very strong winds several miles above the Earth's surface that encircle both the Arctic and the Antarctic regions. When Americans talk about the Jet Stream, we generally mean the air currents that flow, mostly east-to-west, through the middle to northern latitudes.

The Jet Stream contains the cold air around the Arctic much like the shores of a lake contain lakewater. Unlike a lake shore, the currents of the JS don't stay in one place--but they flow continuously, without a break, all the way around the Earth. Cold, arctic air remains enclosed in the area north of the JS. When the JS moves south, cold air comes with it. In the US, that means air from Canada and northward. Fluctuations in the JS are normal, but the extreme fluctuations we've seen the past several years are unusual (or have been, up to now).

The faster the winds in the JS flow, the stronger the barrier they provide between the cold northern air and the warmer air to the south. In recent years, consistently warmer arctic temperatures have slowed down the JS, causing it to meander more, and sometimes to form loops that dip quite a lot farther south than we're used to. The cold air "lake," in other words, floods, and frigid air pours southward over its shores.

A rash of record-breakng cold temperatures then spreads all across the country. People convinced that Climate Change is a metorological myth perpetrated by godless, America-hating demoncrats* seize the moment as proof that "Global Warming" is a big, fat lie, and start laughing their butts off. While this lack of understanding on the part of entrenched unbelievers is understandable, I hope my explanation of how cold weather events are consistent with climate change might, for at least some of you, shift your perspective a little.

*As I've stated in this forum many times, I'm convinced the biggest threat to the our government and our way of life comes neither from extreme liberals or nor extreme conservatives. It comes from frightened, angry, unhappy people on both sides who vilify those who don't share their political beliefs and heap barbarous insults on them.

I have no objection to stong language. I use it a lot, when I don't think it will alienate/offend people I'm trying to communicate with. I have many objections to abusive language--or, more accurately, to the pain it causes and to the pain it shows in the heart of the people who use it. And while I understand that being careful of the words we use about those with whom we are at odds won't heal our underlying wounds, I know that speaking more gently to others helps prevent us from judging them too harshly and frees us to think more clearly and make wiser decisions.

Mikeyavelli

As the shaman told his tribe, give me beads and I will make it rain.
They fell for it, same as they are falling for it today.
Let go of your energy sources, or the planet will destroy itself in 12 years. And they are falling for it.
A weapon used by the international left to weaken America enough to be easily assimilated into the borderless one government world the lefties dream about.
All bullmueller.
Mankind wishes he could manipulate the weather.
All bullmueller.

Happishark

Where are your facts? Please explain to me the reasoning that led you to conclude that:

---"Lefties dream about... a borderless one
government world."
--"The international left" is looking for
weapons to "weaken America."
--The conclusions reported in the climate
study recently released by the UN are bogus.

I don't understand it when people, on hearing my opinions, lump me in with "the international left," the pawns of the "Deep State," or some other organized, global, liberal conspiracy.

There are plenty of people who, like me, love this country and believe that climate change poses a huge threat to the lives of its citizens and the stability of government and law enforcement at all levels. There are many others, like you, who also love America, but who--because they either reject outright that climate change is real or they believe its potential effects have been overhyped by scientists and gullible liberals--remain focused on other problems that they think have far more potential to hurt or destroy the USA.

Please don't denigrate people who hold political opinions at odds with yours by calling us enemies of America. Our differences lie in our perspectives and our priorities, not in our patriotism, or lack of it.

Mikeyavelli

Facts about the climate are whatever the lefties need to convince America that the sky is falling and, by giving up fuel sources and cars and meat and airplanes America can save the world!
You don't sound like a deacon in The First Vegan Church of Modern Day Chicken Littlists, but you do sound concerned.
We have no obligations to the planet, and the planet has no obligations to conscious life. We bring nothing, we take nothing.
The lefties use climate as a weapon, like racism or any other ism they come up with to weaken America. I didn't suspect that you were a lefty either.
I might now suspect that you are a lefty.