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Another Muslim warns Christian belief offends him
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Jan 29, 2019 17:47:58   #
Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone
 
Continuation:

5:51

Sahih International: O you who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you – then indeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allah guides not the wrongdoing people.

Pickthall: O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.

Yusuf Ali: O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.

Shakir: O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

Muhammad Sarwar: Believers, do not consider the Jews and Christians as your intimate friends for they are only friends with each other. Whoever does so will be considered as one of them. God does not guide the unjust people.

Mohsin Khan: O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Auliya' (friends, protectors, helpers, etc.), they are but Auliya' to one another. And if any amongst you takes them as Auliya', then surely he is one of them. Verily, Allah guides not those people who are the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong­doers and unjust).

Arberry: O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Whoso of you makes them his friends is one of them. God guides not the people of the evildoers.


9:123

Sahih International: O you who have believed, fight those adjacent to you of the disbelievers and let them find in you harshness. And know that Allah is with the righteous.

Pickthall: O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him).

Yusuf Ali: O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.

Shakir: O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

Muhammad Sarwar: Believers, fight the unbelievers near you for the cause of God so that they realize your strength and know that God is with the pious ones.

Mohsin Khan: O you who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are close to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who are the Al-Muttaqun (the pious - see V.2:2).

Arberry: O believers, fight the unbelievers who are near to you; and let them find in you a harshness; and know that God is with the godfearing.

8:65

Sahih International: O Prophet, urge the believers to battle. If there are among you twenty [who are] steadfast, they will overcome two hundred. And if there are among you one hundred [who are] steadfast, they will overcome a thousand of those who have disbelieved because they are a people who do not understand.

Pickthall: O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there be of you twenty steadfast they shall overcome two hundred, and if there be of you a hundred (steadfast) they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they (the disbelievers) are a folk without intelligence.

Yusuf Ali: O Prophet! rouse the Believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers: for these are a people without understanding.

Shakir: O Prophet! urge the believers to war; if there are twenty patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a hundred of you they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they are a people who do not understand.

Muhammad Sarwar: Prophet, mobilize the believers for the battle. It will take only twenty of your men who are steadfast (in prayer) to defeat two hundred unbelieving men. Your two hundred men would defeat their two thousand; the unbelievers have no understanding.

Mohsin Khan: O Prophet (Muhammad SAW)! Urge the believers to fight. If there are twenty steadfast persons amongst you, they will overcome two hundred, and if there be a hundred steadfast persons they will overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they (the disbelievers) are people who do not understand.

Arberry: O Prophet, urge on the believers to fight. If there be twenty of you, patient men, they will overcome two hundred; if there be a hundred of you, they will overcome a thousand unbelievers, for they are a people who understand not.

9:29

Sahih International: Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.

Pickthall: Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.

Yusuf Ali: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

Shakir: Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

Muhammad Sarwar: Fight against those People of the Book who have no faith in God or the Day of Judgment, who do not consider unlawful what God and His Messenger have made unlawful, and who do not believe in the true religion, until they humbly pay tax with their own hands.

Mohsin Khan: Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

Arberry: Fight those who believe not in God and the Last Day and do not forbid what God and His Messenger have forbidden -- such men as practise not the religion of truth, being of those who have been given the Book -- until they pay the tribute out of hand and have been humbled.

TBC

Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Hi Pennylynn...
Sorry for not responding earlier...
I was asleep...
It's four in the morning over here...
And I am going back to sleep in just a moment....

The term 'kataby' means people of the book...
I am not sure if I am spelling it correctly...
The majority of the conversations and debates that I have with my Muslim friends take place online and they all use different spelling for arabic terms...

I will go through your post after I wake up...
But I would like to point out two things that jumped to mind immediately...

First... There are many Quotes from the Koran denoted in the post (that you wrote (?)) But few full verses are Given...
Have you vetted them yourself?
Also...many of them pertain to arguments which have no bearing on my earlier contentions...

Secondly.... There is a link provided...
I did not read the full article...
Just the first half...
I did however note that it quoted the three most common verses when comparing christians and Jews to swine and apes...
And that is what they were... comparisons...
As denoted by the usage of the words 'like/as'.
None of these verses support the premise that God physically changed christians and/or Jews into said beasts..


As a friend...

Quote:
"This does not seem to fit with your ideas you gain from your holy book... but, perhaps you can explain these quotes so that an ignorant decedent from apes, pigs, and dogs can understand"

I have never claimed to be a Muslim, nor do I consider the Koran to be 'my holy book'...
This was rather an unfair judgement...

As was the second part of the paragraph...
I have never made such accusations and don't appreciate it being insinuated otherwise...


Now then...
My eyes are begining to droop...
I am returning to bed....
I hope you are well and enjoying this glorious day...

Your friend, Kyle
Hi Pennylynn... br Sorry for not responding earlie... (show quote)

Reply
Jan 29, 2019 18:09:30   #
Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone
 
Continued

9:3

Sahih International: And [it is] an announcement from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah is disassociated from the disbelievers, and [so is] His Messenger. So if you repent, that is best for you; but if you turn away - then know that you will not cause failure to Allah. And give tidings to those who disbelieve of a painful punishment.

Pickthall: And a proclamation from Allah and His messenger to all men on the day of the Greater Pilgrimage that Allah is free from obligation to the idolaters, and (so is) His messenger. So, if ye repent, it will be better for you; but if ye are averse, then know that ye cannot escape Allah. Give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful doom to those who disbelieve,

Yusuf Ali: And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith.

Shakir: And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters; therefore if you repent, it will be better for you, and if you turn back, then know that you will not weaken Allah; and announce painful punishment to those who disbelieve.

Muhammad Sarwar: This Announcement from God and His Messenger is to be made to the people on the day of the great Pilgrimage; God and His Messenger have declared no amnesty for the pagans. If you (pagans) repent, it would be better for you, but if you turn away (from God), know that you cannot make God helpless. (Muhammad) tell the unbelievers that a painful punishment has been prepared for them.

Mohsin Khan: And a declaration from Allah and His Messenger to mankind on the greatest day (the 10th of Dhul-Hijjah - the 12th month of Islamic calendar) that Allah is free from (all) obligations to the Mushrikun (see V.2:105) and so is His Messenger. So if you (Mushrikun) repent, it is better for you, but if you turn away, then know that you cannot escape (from the Punishment of) Allah. And give tidings (O Muhammad SAW) of a painful torment to those who disbelieve.

Arberry: A proclamation, from God and His Messenger, unto mankind on the day of the Greater Pilgrimage: 'God is quit, and His Messenger, of the idolaters. So if you repent, that will be better for you; but if you turn your backs; know that you cannot frustrate the will of God. And give thou good tidings to the unbelievers of a painful chastisement;

9:14

Sahih International: Fight them; Allah will punish them by your hands and will disgrace them and give you victory over them and satisfy the breasts of a believing people

Pickthall: Fight them! Allah will chastise them at your hands, and He will lay them low and give you victory over them, and He will heal the breasts of folk who are believers.

Yusuf Ali: Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you (to victory) over them, heal the breasts of Believers,

Shakir: Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace, and assist you against them and heal the hearts of a believing people.

Muhammad Sarwar: Fight them. May God punish them by your hands, humiliate them, give you victory over them, delight the hearts of the believers

Mohsin Khan: Fight against them so that Allah will punish them by your hands and disgrace them and give you victory over them and heal the breasts of a believing people,

Arberry: Fight them, and God will chastise them at your hands and degrade them, and He will help you against them, and bring healing to the breasts of a people who believe,

5:10

Sahih International: But those who disbelieve and deny Our signs – those are the companions of Hellfire.

Pickthall: And they who disbelieve and deny Our revelations, such are rightful owners of hell.

Yusuf Ali: Those who reject faith and deny our signs will be companions of Hell-fire.

Shakir: And (as for) those who disbelieve and reject our communications, these are the companions of the name.

Muhammad Sarwar: However, the unbelievers who have called Our revelations lies will have hell for their dwelling.

Mohsin Khan: They who disbelieve and deny our Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) are those who will be the dwellers of the Hell­fire.

Arberry: And the unbelievers, who cried lies to Our signs -- they shall be the inhabitants of Hell.

9:28

Sahih International: O you who have believed, indeed the polytheists are unclean, so let them not approach al-Masjid al-haram after this, their [final] year. And if you fear privation, Allah will enrich you from His bounty if He wills. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Wise.

Pickthall: O ye who believe! The idolaters only are unclean. So let them not come near the Inviolable Place of Worship after this their year. If ye fear poverty (from the loss of their merchandise) Allah shall preserve you of His bounty if He will. Lo! Allah is Knower, Wise.

Yusuf Ali: O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque. And if ye fear poverty, soon will Allah enrich you, if He wills, out of His bounty, for Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.

Shakir: O you who believe! the idolaters are nothing but unclean, so they shall not approach the Sacred Mosque after this year; and if you fear poverty then Allah will enrich you out of His grace if He please; surely Allah is Knowing Wise.

Muhammad Sarwar: Believers, the pagans are filthy. Do not let them come near to the Sacred Mosque after this year. If you are afraid of poverty, He will make you rich if He wishes, by His favor. God is All-knowing and All-wise.

Mohsin Khan: O you who believe (in Allah's Oneness and in His Messenger (Muhammad SAW)! Verily, the Mushrikun (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah, and in the Message of Muhammad SAW) are Najasun (impure). So let them not come near Al-Masjid-al-Haram (at Makkah) after this year, and if you fear poverty, Allah will enrich you if He will, out of His Bounty. Surely, Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.

Arberry: O believers, the idolaters are indeed unclean; so let them not come near the Holy Mosque after this year of theirs. If you fear poverty, God shall surely enrich you of His bounty, if He will; God is All-knowing; All-wise.

2:193

Sahih International: Fight them until there is no [more] fitnah and [until] worship is [acknowledged to be] for Allah. But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors.

Pickthall: And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers.

Yusuf Ali: And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.

Shakir: And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors.

Muhammad Sarwar: Fight them so that there will be no disbelief in God and God's religion will become dominant. If they change their behavior, there would be no hostility against anyone except the unjust.

Mohsin Khan: And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allah (Alone). But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)

Arberry: Fight them, till there is no persecution and the religion is God's; then if they give over, there shall be no enmity save for evildoers.

14:17

Sahih International: He will gulp it but will hardly [be able to] swallow it. And death will come to him from everywhere, but he is not to die. And before him is a massive punishment.

Pickthall: Which he sippeth but can hardly swallow, and death cometh unto him from every side while yet he cannot die, and before him is a harsh doom.

Yusuf Ali: In gulps will he sip it, but never will he be near swallowing it down his throat: death will come to him from every quarter, yet will he not die: and in front of him will be a chastisement unrelenting.

Shakir: He will drink it little by little and will not be able to swallow it agreeably, and death will come to him from every quarter, but he shall not die; and there shall be vehement chastisement before him.

Muhammad Sarwar: As they sip the unpleasant water, death will approach them from all sides, but they will never die. In addition to this, they will experience the most intense torment.

Mohsin Khan: He will sip it unwillingly, and he will find a great difficulty to swallow it down his throat, and death will come to him from every side, yet he will not die and in front of him, will be a great torment.

Arberry: the which he gulps, and can scarce swallow, and death comes upon him from every side, yet he cannot die; and still beyond him is a harsh chastisement.

22:19

Sahih International: These are two adversaries who have disputed over their Lord. But those who disbelieved will have cut out for them garments of fire. Poured upon their heads will be scalding water

Pickthall: These twain (the believers and the disbelievers) are two opponents who contend concerning their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads,

Yusuf Ali: These two antagonists dispute with each other about their Lord: But those who deny (their Lord),- for them will be cut out a garment of Fire: over their heads will be poured out boiling water.

Shakir: These are two adversaries who dispute about their Lord; then (as to) those who disbelieve, for them are cut out garments of fire, boiling water shall be poured over their heads.

Muhammad Sarwar: (Those who prostrate themselves before God and those who do not) are two groups who dispute with each other about their Lord. For the unbelievers the garment of fire has already been prepared. Boiling water will be poured upon their heads.

Mohsin Khan: These two opponents (believers and disbelievers) dispute with each other about their Lord; then as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them, boiling water will be poured down over their heads.

Arberry: These are two disputants who have disputed concerning their Lord. As for the unbelievers, for them garments of fire shall, be cut, and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water

22:20

Sahih International: By which is melted that within their bellies and [their] skins.

Pickthall: Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted;

Yusuf Ali: With it will be scalded what is within their bodies, as well as (their) skins.

Shakir: With it shall be melted what is in their bellies and (their) skins as well.

Muhammad Sarwar: It will melt their skins and all that is in their bellies.

Mohsin Khan: With it will melt or vanish away what is within their bellies, as well as (their) skins.

Arberry: whereby whatsoever is in their bellies and their skins shall be melted;

22:21

Sahih International: By which is melted that within their bellies and [their] skins.

Pickthall: Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted;

Yusuf Ali: With it will be scalded what is within their bodies, as well as (their) skins.

Shakir: With it shall be melted what is in their bellies and (their) skins as well.

Muhammad Sarwar: It will melt their skins and all that is in their bellies.

Mohsin Khan: With it will melt or vanish away what is within their bellies, as well as (their) skins.

Arberry: whereby whatsoever is in their bellies and their skins shall be melted;


TBC

Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Hi Pennylynn...
Sorry for not responding earlier...
I was asleep...
It's four in the morning over here...
And I am going back to sleep in just a moment....

The term 'kataby' means people of the book...
I am not sure if I am spelling it correctly...
The majority of the conversations and debates that I have with my Muslim friends take place online and they all use different spelling for arabic terms...

I will go through your post after I wake up...
But I would like to point out two things that jumped to mind immediately...

First... There are many Quotes from the Koran denoted in the post (that you wrote (?)) But few full verses are Given...
Have you vetted them yourself?
Also...many of them pertain to arguments which have no bearing on my earlier contentions...

Secondly.... There is a link provided...
I did not read the full article...
Just the first half...
I did however note that it quoted the three most common verses when comparing christians and Jews to swine and apes...
And that is what they were... comparisons...
As denoted by the usage of the words 'like/as'.
None of these verses support the premise that God physically changed christians and/or Jews into said beasts..


As a friend...

Quote:
"This does not seem to fit with your ideas you gain from your holy book... but, perhaps you can explain these quotes so that an ignorant decedent from apes, pigs, and dogs can understand"

I have never claimed to be a Muslim, nor do I consider the Koran to be 'my holy book'...
This was rather an unfair judgement...

As was the second part of the paragraph...
I have never made such accusations and don't appreciate it being insinuated otherwise...


Now then...
My eyes are begining to droop...
I am returning to bed....
I hope you are well and enjoying this glorious day...

Your friend, Kyle
Hi Pennylynn... br Sorry for not responding earlie... (show quote)

Reply
Jan 29, 2019 18:16:56   #
Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone
 
Continuation

22:9

Sahih International: Twisting his neck [in arrogance] to mislead [people] from the way of Allah. For him in the world is disgrace, and We will make him taste on the Day of Resurrection the punishment of the Burning Fire [while it is said],

Pickthall: Turning away in pride to beguile (men) from the way of Allah. For him in this world is ignominy, and on the Day of Resurrection We make him taste the doom of burning.

Yusuf Ali: (Disdainfully) bending his side, in order to lead (men) astray from the Path of Allah: for him there is disgrace in this life, and on the Day of Judgment We shall make him taste the Penalty of burning (Fire).

Shakir: Turning away haughtily that he may lead (others) astray from the way of Allah; for him is disgrace in this world, and on the day of resurrection We will make him taste the punishment of burning:

Muhammad Sarwar: They turn away (from the Truth) to lead people away from the path of God. Their share in this world will be disgrace and on the Day of Judgment a burning torment.

Mohsin Khan: Bending his neck in pride (far astray from the Path of Allah), and leading (others) too (far) astray from the Path of Allah. For him there is disgrace in this worldly life, and on the Day of Resurrection We shall make him taste the torment of burning (Fire).

Arberry: turning his side to lead astray from God's way; for him is degradation in this world; and on the Resurrection Day We shall let him taste the chastisement of the burning:

25:68

Sahih International: And those who do not invoke with Allah another deity or kill the soul which Allah has forbidden [to be killed], except by right, and do not commit unlawful sexual intercourse. And whoever should do that will meet a penalty.

Pickthall: And those who cry not unto any other god along with Allah, nor take the life which Allah hath forbidden save in (course of) justice, nor commit adultery - and whoso doeth this shall pay the penalty;

Yusuf Ali: Those who invoke not, with Allah, any other god, nor slay such life as Allah has made sacred except for just cause, nor commit fornication; - and any that does this (not only) meets punishment.

Shakir: And they who do not call upon another god with Allah and do not slay the soul, which Allah has forbidden except in the requirements of justice, and (who) do not commit fornication and he who does this shall find a requital of sin;

Muhammad Sarwar: who do not worship idols besides God, nor without a just cause murder a soul to whom God has granted amnesty, who do not commit fornication, for those who do so have committed a sin

Mohsin Khan: And those who invoke not any other ilah (god) along with Allah, nor kill such life as Allah has forbidden, except for just cause, nor commit illegal sexual intercourse and whoever does this shall receive the punishment.

Arberry: who call not upon another god with God, nor slay the soul God has forbidden except by right, neither fornicate, for whosoever does that shall meet the price

48:13

Sahih International: And those who do not invoke with Allah another deity or kill the soul which Allah has forbidden [to be killed], except by right, and do not commit unlawful sexual intercourse. And whoever should do that will meet a penalty.

Pickthall: And those who cry not unto any other god along with Allah, nor take the life which Allah hath forbidden save in (course of) justice, nor commit adultery - and whoso doeth this shall pay the penalty;

Yusuf Ali: Those who invoke not, with Allah, any other god, nor slay such life as Allah has made sacred except for just cause, nor commit fornication; - and any that does this (not only) meets punishment.

Shakir: And they who do not call upon another god with Allah and do not slay the soul, which Allah has forbidden except in the requirements of justice, and (who) do not commit fornication and he who does this shall find a requital of sin;

Muhammad Sarwar: who do not worship idols besides God, nor without a just cause murder a soul to whom God has granted amnesty, who do not commit fornication, for those who do so have committed a sin

Mohsin Khan: And those who invoke not any other ilah (god) along with Allah, nor kill such life as Allah has forbidden, except for just cause, nor commit illegal sexual intercourse and whoever does this shall receive the punishment.

Arberry: who call not upon another god with God, nor slay the soul God has forbidden except by right, neither fornicate, for whosoever does that shall meet the price

48:29

Sahih International: Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah ; and those with him are forceful against the disbelievers, merciful among themselves. You see them bowing and prostrating [in prayer], seeking bounty from Allah and [His] pleasure. Their mark is on their faces from the trace of prostration. That is their description in the Torah. And their description in the Gospel is as a plant which produces its offshoots and strengthens them so they grow firm and stand upon their stalks, delighting the sowers - so that Allah may enrage by them the disbelievers. Allah has promised those who believe and do righteous deeds among them forgiveness and a great reward.

Pickthall: Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves. Thou (O Muhammad) seest them bowing and falling prostrate (in worship), seeking bounty from Allah and (His) acceptance. The mark of them is on their foreheads from the traces of prostration. Such is their likeness in the Torah and their likeness in the Gospel - like as sown corn that sendeth forth its shoot and strengtheneth it and riseth firm upon its stalk, delighting the sowers - that He may enrage the disbelievers with (the sight of) them. Allah hath promised, unto such of them as believe and do good works, forgiveness and immense reward.

Yusuf Ali: Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other. Thou wilt see them bow and prostrate themselves (in prayer), seeking Grace from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure. On their faces are their marks, (being) the traces of their prostration. This is their similitude in the Taurat; and their similitude in the Gospel is: like a seed which sends forth its blade, then makes it strong; it then becomes thick, and it stands on its own stem, (filling) the sowers with wonder and delight. As a result, it fills the Unbelievers with rage at them. Allah has promised those among them who believe and do righteous deeds forgiveness, and a great Reward.

Shakir: Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and those with him are firm of heart against the unbelievers, compassionate among themselves; you will see them bowing down, prostrating themselves, seeking grace from Allah and pleasure; their marks are in their faces because of the effect of prostration; that is their description in the Taurat and their description in the Injeel; like as seed-produce that puts forth its sprout, then strengthens it, so it becomes stout and stands firmly on its stem, delighting the sowers that He may enrage the unbelievers on account of them; Allah has promised those among them who believe and do good, forgiveness and a great reward.

Muhammad Sarwar: Muhammad is the Messenger of God and those with him are stern to the disbelievers yet kind among themselves. You can see them bowing and prostrating before God, seeking His favors and pleasure. Their faces (foreheads) are marked due to the effect of their frequent prostrations. That is their description in the Torah and in the Gospel they are mentioned as the seed which shoots out its stalk then becomes stronger, harder and stands firm on its stumps, attracting the farmers. Thus, God has described the believers to enrage the disbelievers. God has promised forgiveness and a great reward to the righteously striving believers.

Mohsin Khan: Muhammad (SAW) is the Messenger of Allah, and those who are with him are severe against disbelievers, and merciful among themselves. You see them bowing and falling down prostrate (in prayer), seeking Bounty from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure. The mark of them (i.e. of their Faith) is on their faces (foreheads) from the traces of (their) prostration (during prayers). This is their description in the Taurat (Torah). But their description in the Injeel (Gospel) is like a (sown) seed which sends forth its shoot, then makes it strong, it then becomes thick, and it stands straight on its stem, delighting the sowers that He may enrage the disbelievers with them. Allah has promised those among them who believe (i.e. all those who follow Islamic Monotheism, the religion of Prophet Muhammad SAW till the Day of Resurrection) and do righteous good deeds, forgiveness and a mighty reward (i.e. Paradise).

Arberry: Muhammad is the Messenger of God, and those who are with him are hard against the unbelievers, merciful one to another. Thou seest them bowing, prostrating, seeking bounty from God and good pleasure. Their mark is on their faces, the trace of prostration. That is their likeness in the Torah, and their likeness in the Gospel: as a seed that puts forth its shoot, and strengthens it, and it grows stout and rises straight upon its stalk, pleasing the sowers, that through them He may enrage the unbelievers. God has promised those of them who believe and do deeds of righteousness forgiveness and a mighty wage.

TBC

Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Hi Pennylynn...
Sorry for not responding earlier...
I was asleep...
It's four in the morning over here...
And I am going back to sleep in just a moment....

The term 'kataby' means people of the book...
I am not sure if I am spelling it correctly...
The majority of the conversations and debates that I have with my Muslim friends take place online and they all use different spelling for arabic terms...

I will go through your post after I wake up...
But I would like to point out two things that jumped to mind immediately...

First... There are many Quotes from the Koran denoted in the post (that you wrote (?)) But few full verses are Given...
Have you vetted them yourself?
Also...many of them pertain to arguments which have no bearing on my earlier contentions...

Secondly.... There is a link provided...
I did not read the full article...
Just the first half...
I did however note that it quoted the three most common verses when comparing christians and Jews to swine and apes...
And that is what they were... comparisons...
As denoted by the usage of the words 'like/as'.
None of these verses support the premise that God physically changed christians and/or Jews into said beasts..


As a friend...

Quote:
"This does not seem to fit with your ideas you gain from your holy book... but, perhaps you can explain these quotes so that an ignorant decedent from apes, pigs, and dogs can understand"

I have never claimed to be a Muslim, nor do I consider the Koran to be 'my holy book'...
This was rather an unfair judgement...

As was the second part of the paragraph...
I have never made such accusations and don't appreciate it being insinuated otherwise...


Now then...
My eyes are begining to droop...
I am returning to bed....
I hope you are well and enjoying this glorious day...

Your friend, Kyle
Hi Pennylynn... br Sorry for not responding earlie... (show quote)

Reply
 
 
Jan 29, 2019 18:21:42   #
maryjane
 
no propaganda please wrote:
WND EXCLUSIVE
Another Muslim warns Christian belief offends him
Robert Spencer:


Many observers were stunned when a Christian making a basic statement of faith – that Jesus is the Son of God – was considered an insult to Muslims.

The dispute was in Uganda, but now the same issue has erupted in the United States’ neighbor to the north, Canada.

There, a Muslim leader declared Muslims must take offense when people declare Jesus is the Son of God.

Robert Spencer at Jihad Watch wrote that, apparently, “Christians who are anxious to avoid offending Muslims should convert to Islam now, because the simple expression of the Christian faith offends Muslims.”

It was Sheikh Younus Kathrada who said he stands by his statement that Muslims should be offended, though not necessarily become violent, when people worship Jesus or refer to him as the Son of God.

The Middle East Media Research Institute said he “further criticized the media for wanting to make Muslims look like savages and said that since a proper Islamic state – which he said does not exist today – would punish murder, adultery, and other severe crimes by things such as death and amputation, his remarks cannot be taken to mean that he encourages these behaviors.”

He also stated: “Because it seems that some reporters and media outlets have nothing better to do than spread lies and inaccurate reports, I feel that it is important to clarify things, but on our terms.”

“I have never and I still do not, and I never will, tell people to just go out and kill people willy nilly and so on and so forth,” Kathrada said. “… Do you know why I said that? I said that because after I made the comments that I did, I anticipated that there may be some unintelligent people out there, not my audience, but unintelligent people who may come across this sermon and they may accuse me of saying certain things that I did not say.”

He noted his comment that “you and I must be offended when people say that they worship Jesus or when they say that Jesus is the son of God.”

“Guess what, I stand 100 percent behind these words. I said those words and I stand behind them, 100 percent.”

He said the Christmas holiday is Christian “and it is based on what Islam deems to be blasphemy.”

“Don’t tell me that we can be okay with saying ‘Merry Christmas’ you prove to me how it can be okay. Out of politeness, okay, so go and congratulate the fornicators then. You won’t do it unless you are one of them or you happen to have that mentality where you think it is okay, there is nothing wrong with it. Or a rapist. … Extreme examples? Well, they are not extreme, they are real examples.”

He said it is wrong for Muslims to want to be polite.

In that case, “You are not a principled individual.”

In a “proper” Islamic state, he said, there will be “severe punishments” for those crimes.

In Uganda, Muslims believe they can “justifiably exact revenge” if they are subjected to such thoughts.

Spencer wrote that Muslims “now consider any public statement of the Christian faith to be a calculated insult to Muslims, for which they can justifiably exact revenge.”

“This is, or should be, sobering news for the comfortable Christians of the West who have made an idol out of ‘interfaith dialogue’ and fastidiously avoid saying anything remotely critical about Islam, even as the Muslim persecution of Christians continues worldwide.”

The Washington Times reported that in June a group of Muslims attacked Christian preachers in eastern Uganda during a “crusade” in which Christians publicly professed their faith and invited others to join.

Muslims in the town accused the Christians of mocking Islam by publicly saying Jesus was the Son of God.

Christian pastor Moses Saku said the accusation provoked violence by local Muslims.

“They became very angry and began throwing rocks at Christians, chanting ‘Allah akbar.’ Many Christians were injured during the incident,” he said.

Spencer wrote with tongue in cheek: “Christians, stop saying Jesus is the Son of God. It provokes Muslims.”

WND has reported on a movement among Muslim nations to create a worldwide ban on any criticism of Islam.

Leaders in Pakistan now say they are “spearheading efforts to get countries to sign onto the “International Convention on Preventing the Defamation of Religions,” which would provide Islam with that special protection.

The document states “freedom of speech is an insufficient pretext for hurting the world’s Muslims.”
WND EXCLUSIVE br Another Muslim warns Christian be... (show quote)


The truly amazing thing is that Christian, Jews, etc, are NOT offended by the Muslims spouting their Islam!!!! The Christians, etc, are foolish enough to try to make friends, to appease the muslims, instead of standing strong for their own religion and beliefs. Our country is flying down a self destructive path!

Reply
Jan 29, 2019 18:25:21   #
Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone
 
Continuation

69:30

Sahih International: [Allah will say], "Seize him and shackle him.

Pickthall: (It will be said): Take him and fetter him

Yusuf Ali: (The stern command will say): "Seize ye him, and bind ye him,

Shakir: Lay hold on him, then put a chain on him,

Muhammad Sarwar: The angels will be told, "Seize and chain them,

Mohsin Khan: (It will be said): "Seize him and fetter him,

Arberry: 'Take him, and fetter him,

69:31

Sahih International: Then into Hellfire drive him.

Pickthall: And then expose him to hell-fire

Yusuf Ali: "And burn ye him in the Blazing Fire.

Shakir: Then cast him into the burning fire,

Muhammad Sarwar: then throw them into hell to be heated up therein.

Mohsin Khan: Then throw him in the blazing Fire.

Arberry: and then roast him in Hell,

69:32

Sahih International: Then into a chain whose length is seventy cubits insert him."

Pickthall: And then insert him in a chain whereof the length is seventy cubits.

Yusuf Ali: "Further, make him march in a chain, whereof the length is seventy cubits!

Shakir: Then thrust him into a chain the length of which is seventy cubits.

Muhammad Sarwar: Fasten a chain to them - seventy cubits long -

Mohsin Khan: "Then fasten him with a chain whereof the length is seventy cubits!"

Arberry: then in a chain of seventy cubits' length insert him!

9:23

Sahih International: O you who have believed, do not take your fathers or your brothers as allies if they have preferred disbelief over belief. And whoever does so among you - then it is those who are the wrongdoers.

Pickthall: O ye who believe! Choose not your fathers nor your brethren for friends if they take pleasure in disbelief rather than faith. Whoso of you taketh them for friends, such are wrong-doers.

Yusuf Ali: O ye who believe! take not for protectors your fathers and your brothers if they love infidelity above Faith: if any of you do so, they do wrong.

Shakir: O you who believe! do not take your fathers and your brothers for guardians if they love unbelief more than belief; and whoever of you takes them for a guardian, these it is that are the unjust.

Muhammad Sarwar: Believers, do not accept your fathers and brothers as your guardians if they prefer disbelief to faith, lest you be unjust.

Mohsin Khan: O you who believe! Take not for Auliya' (supporters and helpers) your fathers and your brothers if they prefer disbelief to Belief. And whoever of you does so, then he is one of the Zalimun (wrong-doers, etc.).

Arberry: O believers, take not your fathers and brothers to be your friends, if they prefer unbelief to belief; whosoever of you takes them for friends, those -- they are the evildoers.

Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Hi Pennylynn...
Sorry for not responding earlier...
I was asleep...
It's four in the morning over here...
And I am going back to sleep in just a moment....

The term 'kataby' means people of the book...
I am not sure if I am spelling it correctly...
The majority of the conversations and debates that I have with my Muslim friends take place online and they all use different spelling for arabic terms...

I will go through your post after I wake up...
But I would like to point out two things that jumped to mind immediately...

First... There are many Quotes from the Koran denoted in the post (that you wrote (?)) But few full verses are Given...
Have you vetted them yourself?
Also...many of them pertain to arguments which have no bearing on my earlier contentions...

Secondly.... There is a link provided...
I did not read the full article...
Just the first half...
I did however note that it quoted the three most common verses when comparing christians and Jews to swine and apes...
And that is what they were... comparisons...
As denoted by the usage of the words 'like/as'.
None of these verses support the premise that God physically changed christians and/or Jews into said beasts..


As a friend...

Quote:
"This does not seem to fit with your ideas you gain from your holy book... but, perhaps you can explain these quotes so that an ignorant decedent from apes, pigs, and dogs can understand"

I have never claimed to be a Muslim, nor do I consider the Koran to be 'my holy book'...
This was rather an unfair judgement...

As was the second part of the paragraph...
I have never made such accusations and don't appreciate it being insinuated otherwise...


Now then...
My eyes are begining to droop...
I am returning to bed....
I hope you are well and enjoying this glorious day...

Your friend, Kyle
Hi Pennylynn... br Sorry for not responding earlie... (show quote)

Reply
Jan 29, 2019 18:34:48   #
Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone
 
Continuation

25:52

Sahih International: So do not obey the disbelievers, and strive against them with the Qur'an a great striving.

Pickthall: So obey not the disbelievers, but strive against them herewith with a great endeavour.

Yusuf Ali: Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness, with the (Qur'an).

Shakir: So do not follow the unbelievers, and strive against them a mighty striving with it.

Muhammad Sarwar: Do not yield to the unbelievers but launch a great campaign against them with the help of the Quran.

Mohsin Khan: So obey not the disbelievers, but strive against them (by preaching) with the utmost endeavour, with it (the Quran).

Arberry: So obey not the unbelievers, but struggle with them thereby mightily.

66:9

Sahih International: O Prophet, strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites and be harsh upon them. And their refuge is Hell, and wretched is the destination.

Pickthall: O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end.

Yusuf Ali: O Prophet! Strive hard against the Unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge (indeed).

Shakir: O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and be hard against them; and their abode is hell; and evil is the resort.

Muhammad Sarwar: Prophet, fight against the disbelievers and the hypocrites and be stern against them. Their dwelling will be hell fire, the most terrible fate.

Mohsin Khan: O Prophet (Muhammad SAW)! Strive hard against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be severe against them, their abode will be Hell, and worst indeed is that destination.

Arberry: O Prophet, struggle with the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and be thou harsh with them; their refuge shall be Gehenna -- an evil homecoming!

2:216

Sahih International: Fighting has been enjoined upon you while it is hateful to you. But perhaps you hate a thing and it is good for you; and perhaps you love a thing and it is bad for you. And Allah Knows, while you know not.

Pickthall: Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that ye hate a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that ye love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, ye know not.

Yusuf Ali: Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.

Shakir: Fighting is enjoined on you, and it is an object of dislike to you; and it may be that you dislike a thing while it is good for you, and it may be that you love a thing while it is evil for you, and Allah knows, while you do not know.

Muhammad Sarwar: Fighting is made mandatory for you, but you dislike it. You may not like something which, in fact, is for your good and something that you may love, in fact, may be evil. God knows, but you do not know.

Mohsin Khan: Jihad (holy fighting in Allah's Cause) is ordained for you (Muslims) though you dislike it, and it may be that you dislike a thing which is good for you and that you like a thing which is bad for you. Allah knows but you do not know.

Arberry: Prescribed for you is fighting, though it be hateful to you. Yet it may happen that you will hate a thing which is better for you; and it may happen that you will love a thing which is worse for you; God knows, and you know not.

47:4

Sahih International: So when you meet those who disbelieve [in battle], strike [their] necks until, when you have inflicted slaughter upon them, then secure their bonds, and either [confer] favor afterwards or ransom [them] until the war lays down its burdens. That [is the command]. And if Allah had willed, He could have taken vengeance upon them [Himself], but [He ordered armed struggle] to test some of you by means of others. And those who are killed in the cause of Allah - never will He waste their deeds.

Pickthall: Now when ye meet in battle those who disbelieve, then it is smiting of the necks until, when ye have routed them, then making fast of bonds; and afterward either grace or ransom till the war lay down its burdens. That (is the ordinance). And if Allah willed He could have punished them (without you) but (thus it is ordained) that He may try some of you by means of others. And those who are slain in the way of Allah, He rendereth not their actions vain.

Yusuf Ali: Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost.

Shakir: So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates. That (shall be so); and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have exacted what is due from them, but that He may try some of you by means of others; and (as for) those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will by no means allow their deeds to perish.

Muhammad Sarwar: If you encounter the disbelievers in a battle, strike-off their heads. Take them as captives when they are defeated. Then you may set them free as a favor to them, with or without a ransom, when the battle is over. This is the Law. Had God wanted, He could have granted them (unbelievers) victory, but He wants to test you through each other. The deeds of those who are killed for the cause of God will never be without virtuous results.

Mohsin Khan: So, when you meet (in fight Jihad in Allah's Cause), those who disbelieve smite at their necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them, i.e. take them as captives). Thereafter (is the time) either for generosity (i.e. free them without ransom), or ransom (according to what benefits Islam), until the war lays down its burden. Thus [you are ordered by Allah to continue in carrying out Jihad against the disbelievers till they embrace Islam (i.e. are saved from the punishment in the Hell-fire) or at least come under your protection], but if it had been Allah's Will, He Himself could certainly have punished them (without you). But (He lets you fight), in order to test you, some with others. But those who are killed in the Way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost,

Arberry: When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks, then, when you have made wide slaughter among them, tie fast the bonds; then set them free, either by grace or ransom, till the war lays down its loads. So it shall be; and if God had willed, He would have avenged Himself upon them; but that He may try some of you by means of others. And those who are slain in the way of God, He will not send their works astray.

TBC

Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Hi Pennylynn...
Sorry for not responding earlier...
I was asleep...
It's four in the morning over here...
And I am going back to sleep in just a moment....

The term 'kataby' means people of the book...
I am not sure if I am spelling it correctly...
The majority of the conversations and debates that I have with my Muslim friends take place online and they all use different spelling for arabic terms...

I will go through your post after I wake up...
But I would like to point out two things that jumped to mind immediately...

First... There are many Quotes from the Koran denoted in the post (that you wrote (?)) But few full verses are Given...
Have you vetted them yourself?
Also...many of them pertain to arguments which have no bearing on my earlier contentions...

Secondly.... There is a link provided...
I did not read the full article...
Just the first half...
I did however note that it quoted the three most common verses when comparing christians and Jews to swine and apes...
And that is what they were... comparisons...
As denoted by the usage of the words 'like/as'.
None of these verses support the premise that God physically changed christians and/or Jews into said beasts..


As a friend...

Quote:
"This does not seem to fit with your ideas you gain from your holy book... but, perhaps you can explain these quotes so that an ignorant decedent from apes, pigs, and dogs can understand"

I have never claimed to be a Muslim, nor do I consider the Koran to be 'my holy book'...
This was rather an unfair judgement...

As was the second part of the paragraph...
I have never made such accusations and don't appreciate it being insinuated otherwise...


Now then...
My eyes are begining to droop...
I am returning to bed....
I hope you are well and enjoying this glorious day...

Your friend, Kyle
Hi Pennylynn... br Sorry for not responding earlie... (show quote)

Reply
Jan 29, 2019 18:35:28   #
badbobby Loc: texas
 
Pennylynn wrote:
Thank you Linda.

Did you know, according to FBI statistics 54 percent of all (reported) hate crimes in the US are against Jews and 75 percent of all Jews in the US has experienced antisemitism... The vast majority of hate crimes against Jews go unreported and many that are, those taking the information simply say "possible hate crime" which is not included in FBI statistics. So, I suspect that 54 percent is very low....yet how many marches have we orchestrated against any other religion? This is not to say that we do not have our "crazies" because we do. Do we have Jews that resent muslims... oh yes we do. In my almost 70 years, I have learned a fact, indisputable and it crosses all religions, policies, and has no nation.... hate does not have a religion color, or borders...

Enough of my soap box.....
Thank you Linda. br br Did you know, according ... (show quote)

you can get on your soap box whenever you choose Penny
you always make sense
and I for one will listen


Reply
 
 
Jan 29, 2019 18:49:37   #
Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone
 
Continuation:

8:12

Sahih International: [Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, "I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip."

Pickthall: When thy Lord inspired the angels, (saying): I am with you. So make those who believe stand firm. I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger.

Yusuf Ali: Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."

Shakir: When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

Muhammad Sarwar: Your Lord inspired the angels saying, "I am with you. Encourage the believers. I shall cast terror into the hearts of the unbelievers and you will strike their heads and limbs;

Mohsin Khan: (Remember) when your Lord inspired the angels, "Verily, I am with you, so keep firm those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who have disbelieved, so strike them over the necks, and smite over all their fingers and toes."

Arberry: When thy Lord was revealing to the angels, 'I am with you; so confirm the believers. I shall cast into the unbelievers' hearts terror; so smite above the necks, and smite every finger of them!'

8:17

Sahih International: And you did not kill them, but it was Allah who killed them. And you threw not, [O Muhammad], when you threw, but it was Allah who threw that He might test the believers with a good test. Indeed, Allah is Hearing and Knowing.

Pickthall: Ye (Muslims) slew them not, but Allah slew them. And thou (Muhammad) threwest not when thou didst throw, but Allah threw, that He might test the believers by a fair test from Him. Lo! Allah is Hearer, Knower.

Yusuf Ali: It is not ye who slew them; it was Allah: when thou threwest (a handful of dust), it was not thy act, but Allah's: in order that He might test the Believers by a gracious trial from Himself: for Allah is He Who heareth and knoweth (all things).

Shakir: So you did not slay them, but it was Allah Who slew them, and you did not smite when you smote (the enemy), but it was Allah Who smote, and that He might confer upon the believers a good gift from Himself; surely Allah is Hearing, Knowing.

Muhammad Sarwar: It was not you (believers) but God who slew the pagans. It was not you (Muhammad) but God who threw dust at them. He did this as a favorable test for the believers. God is All-hearing and All-knowing.

Mohsin Khan: You killed them not, but Allah killed them. And you (Muhammad SAW) threw not when you did throw but Allah threw, that He might test the believers by a fair trial from Him. Verily, Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower.

Arberry: You did not slay them, but God slew them; and when thou threwest, it was not thyself that threw, but God threw, and that He might confer on the believers a fair benefit; surely God is All-hearing, All-knowing.


8:60

Sahih International: And you did not kill them, but it was Allah who killed them. And you threw not, [O Muhammad], when you threw, but it was Allah who threw that He might test the believers with a good test. Indeed, Allah is Hearing and Knowing.

Pickthall: Ye (Muslims) slew them not, but Allah slew them. And thou (Muhammad) threwest not when thou didst throw, but Allah threw, that He might test the believers by a fair test from Him. Lo! Allah is Hearer, Knower.

Yusuf Ali: It is not ye who slew them; it was Allah: when thou threwest (a handful of dust), it was not thy act, but Allah's: in order that He might test the Believers by a gracious trial from Himself: for Allah is He Who heareth and knoweth (all things).

Shakir: So you did not slay them, but it was Allah Who slew them, and you did not smite when you smote (the enemy), but it was Allah Who smote, and that He might confer upon the believers a good gift from Himself; surely Allah is Hearing, Knowing.

Muhammad Sarwar: It was not you (believers) but God who slew the pagans. It was not you (Muhammad) but God who threw dust at them. He did this as a favorable test for the believers. God is All-hearing and All-knowing.

Mohsin Khan: You killed them not, but Allah killed them. And you (Muhammad SAW) threw not when you did throw but Allah threw, that He might test the believers by a fair trial from Him. Verily, Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower.

Arberry: You did not slay them, but God slew them; and when thou threwest, it was not thyself that threw, but God threw, and that He might confer on the believers a fair benefit; surely God is All-hearing, All-knowing.

9:39

Sahih International: If you do not go forth, He will punish you with a painful punishment and will replace you with another people, and you will not harm Him at all. And Allah is over all things competent.

Pickthall: If ye go not forth He will afflict you with a painful doom, and will choose instead of you a folk other than you. Ye cannot harm Him at all. Allah is Able to do all things.

Yusuf Ali: Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least. For Allah hath power over all things.

Shakir: If you do not go forth, He will chastise you with a painful chastisement and bring in your place a people other than you, and you will do Him no harm; and Allah has power over all things.

Muhammad Sarwar: If you do not march for His cause, He will afflict your with a painful punishment and replace you by another nation and your (destruction) will not harm Him at all. God has power over all things.

Mohsin Khan: If you march not forth, He will punish you with a painful torment and will replace you by another people, and you cannot harm Him at all, and Allah is Able to do all things.

Arberry: If you go not forth, He will chastise you with a painful chastisement, and instead of you He will substitute another people; and you will not hurt Him anything, for God is powerful over everything.

9:73

Sahih International: O Prophet, fight against the disbelievers and the hypocrites and be harsh upon them. And their refuge is Hell, and wretched is the destination.

Pickthall: O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end.

Yusuf Ali: O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed.

Shakir: O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination.

Muhammad Sarwar: Prophet, fight the unbelievers and hypocrites vehemently for the cause of God. Their dwelling is hell, a terrible destination!

Mohsin Khan: O Prophet (Muhammad SAW)! Strive hard against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be harsh against them, their abode is Hell, - and worst indeed is that destination.

Arberry: O Prophet, struggle with the unbelievers and hypocrites, and be thou harsh with them; their refuge is Gehenna -- an evil homecoming!

56:17

Sahih International: There will circulate among them young boys made eternal

Pickthall: There wait on them immortal youths

Yusuf Ali: Round about them will (serve) youths of perpetual (freshness),

Shakir: Round about them shall go youths never altering in age,

Muhammad Sarwar: Immortal youths will serve them

Mohsin Khan: They will be served by immortal boys,

Arberry: immortal youths going round about them

56:24

Sahih International: As reward for what they used to do.

Pickthall: Reward for what they used to do.

Yusuf Ali: A Reward for the deeds of their past (life).

Shakir: A reward for what they used to do.

Muhammad Sarwar: as reward for their deeds.

Mohsin Khan: A reward for what they used to do.

Arberry: a recompense for that they laboured.

76:19

Sahih International: There will circulate among them young boys made eternal. When you see them, you would think them [as beautiful as] scattered pearls.

Pickthall: There wait on them immortal youths, whom, when thou seest, thou wouldst take for scattered pearls.

Yusuf Ali: And round about them will (serve) youths of perpetual (freshness): If thou seest them, thou wouldst think them scattered Pearls.

Shakir: And round about them shall go youths never altering in age; when you see them you will think them to be scattered pearls.

Muhammad Sarwar: They will be served by immortal youths who look like scattered pearls.

Mohsin Khan: And round about them will (serve) boys of everlasting youth. If you see them, you would think them scattered pearls.

Arberry: Immortal youths shall go about them; when thou seest them, thou supposest them scattered pearls,

TBC
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Hi Pennylynn...
Sorry for not responding earlier...
I was asleep...
It's four in the morning over here...
And I am going back to sleep in just a moment....

The term 'kataby' means people of the book...
I am not sure if I am spelling it correctly...
The majority of the conversations and debates that I have with my Muslim friends take place online and they all use different spelling for arabic terms...

I will go through your post after I wake up...
But I would like to point out two things that jumped to mind immediately...

First... There are many Quotes from the Koran denoted in the post (that you wrote (?)) But few full verses are Given...
Have you vetted them yourself?
Also...many of them pertain to arguments which have no bearing on my earlier contentions...

Secondly.... There is a link provided...
I did not read the full article...
Just the first half...
I did however note that it quoted the three most common verses when comparing christians and Jews to swine and apes...
And that is what they were... comparisons...
As denoted by the usage of the words 'like/as'.
None of these verses support the premise that God physically changed christians and/or Jews into said beasts..


As a friend...

Quote:
"This does not seem to fit with your ideas you gain from your holy book... but, perhaps you can explain these quotes so that an ignorant decedent from apes, pigs, and dogs can understand"

I have never claimed to be a Muslim, nor do I consider the Koran to be 'my holy book'...
This was rather an unfair judgement...

As was the second part of the paragraph...
I have never made such accusations and don't appreciate it being insinuated otherwise...


Now then...
My eyes are begining to droop...
I am returning to bed....
I hope you are well and enjoying this glorious day...

Your friend, Kyle
Hi Pennylynn... br Sorry for not responding earlie... (show quote)

Reply
Jan 29, 2019 19:42:06   #
Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone
 
Continuation:

3: 85

Sahih International: And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers.

Pickthall: And whoso seeketh as religion other than the Surrender (to Allah) it will not be accepted from him, and he will be a loser in the Hereafter.

Yusuf Ali: If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good).

Shakir: And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.

Muhammad Sarwar: No religion other than Islam (submission to the will of God) will be accepted from anyone. Whoever follows a religion other than Islam will be lost on the Day of Judgment.

Mohsin Khan: And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers.

Arberry: Whoso desires another religion than Islam, it shall not be accepted of him; in the next world he shall be among the losers.

8:39

Sahih International: And fight them until there is no fitnah and [until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah. And if they cease - then indeed, Allah is Seeing of what they do.

Pickthall: And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah. But if they cease, then lo! Allah is Seer of what they do.

Yusuf Ali: And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere; but if they cease, verily Allah doth see all that they do.

Shakir: And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do.

Muhammad Sarwar: Fight them so that idolatry will not exist any more and God's religion will stand supreme. If theygive up the idols), God will be Well Aware of what they do.

Mohsin Khan: And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do.

Arberry: Fight them, till there is no persecution and the religion is God's entirely; then if they give over, surely God sees the things they do;

I think I got them all. I may have missed one or two that are redundnat. So, yes I vet things before I submit them as comment..

And yes.... this has much to do with what you wrote: "Jews and christians are considered 'kataby' followers of God, but not muslims... Muslims are forbidden to kill them except in self defense..." I think I have clearly demonstrated, using several dialects that your statement is not accurate. I do not know if the religious leaders used the term for Jews being apes as a metaphor, but 7:66 says Allah turned Jews into apes:

Sahih International: So when they were insolent about that which they had been forbidden, We said to them, "Be apes, despised."

Pickthall: So when they took pride in that which they had been forbidden, We said unto them: Be ye apes despised and loathed!

Yusuf Ali: When in their insolence they transgressed (all) prohibitions, We said to them: "Be ye apes, despised and rejected."

Shakir: Therefore when they revoltingly persisted in what they had been forbidden, We said to them: Be (as) apes, despised and hated.

Muhammad Sarwar: When they crossed the limit of the prohibition, We made them turn into detested apes.

Mohsin Khan: So when they exceeded the limits of what they were prohibited, We said to them: "Be you monkeys, despised and rejected." (It is a severe warning to the mankind that they should not disobey what Allah commands them to do, and be far away from what He prohibits them).

Arberry: And when they turned in disdain from that forbidding We said to them, 'Be you apes, miserably slinking!'

So, is this a metaphor? Not according to Ibn Ishaq, an early and largely reliable biographer of Muhammad, takes the metamorphosis literally, and he has Muhammad calling the Medinan Jewish clan, Qurayzah, "brothers of monkeys." This implies that Muhammad takes the transformation physically. Medieval commentator Ibn Kathir references Ibn Abbas, Muhammad’s cousin, who interpreted this metamorphosis literally, again implying that Muhammad did too. The Iranian Medieval commentator Razi, widely respected even today, speculates that perhaps the "accidents" or appearances of the Jews were changed, but they kept their mental awareness. Even the Medieval mystic and commentator Ibn Arabi says that the transformation, at its base, is real and not metaphorical, though he puts mystical spins on the verse.

Lastly, I did not say you are a muslim... I did imply, only because you say you keep the Koran beside the bible, that you hold it in reverence. Indeed, I did not intend to imply that you called Christians or Jews apes, dogs, or pigs I cited Islam holy men who said we are decedents of... and read above, even the koran says Allah turned us into apes. I asked that you "explain" the quotes I provided. Do muslim still think we are apes.... I think if you watch the following...in their own words.... you may have your answer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MS2t2e76o8I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqUgw-B5ZWo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxvmEzfqT4g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbZE8lhiTnw



Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Hi Pennylynn...
Sorry for not responding earlier...
I was asleep...
It's four in the morning over here...
And I am going back to sleep in just a moment....

The term 'kataby' means people of the book...
I am not sure if I am spelling it correctly...
The majority of the conversations and debates that I have with my Muslim friends take place online and they all use different spelling for arabic terms...

I will go through your post after I wake up...
But I would like to point out two things that jumped to mind immediately...

First... There are many Quotes from the Koran denoted in the post (that you wrote (?)) But few full verses are Given...
Have you vetted them yourself?
Also...many of them pertain to arguments which have no bearing on my earlier contentions...

Secondly.... There is a link provided...
I did not read the full article...
Just the first half...
I did however note that it quoted the three most common verses when comparing christians and Jews to swine and apes...
And that is what they were... comparisons...
As denoted by the usage of the words 'like/as'.
None of these verses support the premise that God physically changed christians and/or Jews into said beasts..


As a friend...

Quote:
"This does not seem to fit with your ideas you gain from your holy book... but, perhaps you can explain these quotes so that an ignorant decedent from apes, pigs, and dogs can understand"

I have never claimed to be a Muslim, nor do I consider the Koran to be 'my holy book'...
This was rather an unfair judgement...

As was the second part of the paragraph...
I have never made such accusations and don't appreciate it being insinuated otherwise...


Now then...
My eyes are begining to droop...
I am returning to bed....
I hope you are well and enjoying this glorious day...

Your friend, Kyle
Hi Pennylynn... br Sorry for not responding earlie... (show quote)

Reply
Jan 29, 2019 19:43:42   #
Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone
 
Sometimes I say much too much.

I do appreciate your support.
badbobby wrote:
you can get on your soap box whenever you choose Penny
you always make sense
and I for one will listen


Reply
Jan 29, 2019 20:30:19   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Pennylynn wrote:
Sometimes I say much too much.

I do appreciate your support.


Good morning Pennylynn...

Quote:
"In Arabic, People of the Book is ahl alkitab. "

Alkitab... ketaby... We converse in english... Perhaps they drop the article when using
english.... my spelling comes from my palestian friend...


Quote:
"So you want me to copy and paste each quote into this reply when you have the Quran resting at your bedside. Okay.... It will be a good exercise for me to get a copy and provide you with what you request."

At no time did I make such an absurd request..

I am somewhat incredulous that you read my response that way... And with the actions that followed...

So... In conclusion to whatever this has become...

There are and always have been individuals of many religions who will twist the words of their faith to further their hatred...

There are also individuals who will use those individuals as examples to stand for an entire faith....

I wish you peace and love...
God bless...

Reply
 
 
Jan 29, 2019 20:45:05   #
no propaganda please Loc: moon orbiting the third rock from the sun
 
Pennylynn wrote:
Sometimes I say much too much.

I do appreciate your support.


You seldom say too much, and what you say makes a great deal of sense.

Reply
Jan 29, 2019 21:21:35   #
Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone
 
So, I go to great lengths to provide you translations asking only one thing... If you can explain the verses I found. BTW, I found a few verses (?) not sure if that is the right term, that references MAKR of Allah. I can not find a reasonable or consistent use of that term in the Koran... could you ask your Palestinian friend what that word means? Thanks in advance.

As for as providing you with the translations and full quotes.... you questioned if I had vetted the (?) verses... to me that was a challenge to the integrity of my comments, indeed, you questioned if I had written the comments. So.... what did you expect me to do, just answer that I had? Is it not better to show that I had?

Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Good morning Pennylynn...

Quote:
"In Arabic, People of the Book is ahl alkitab. "

Alkitab... ketaby... We converse in english... Perhaps they drop the article when using
english.... my spelling comes from my palestian friend...


Quote:
"So you want me to copy and paste each quote into this reply when you have the Quran resting at your bedside. Okay.... It will be a good exercise for me to get a copy and provide you with what you request."

At no time did I make such an absurd request..

I am somewhat incredulous that you read my response that way... And with the actions that followed...

So... In conclusion to whatever this has become...

There are and always have been individuals of many religions who will twist the words of their faith to further their hatred...

There are also individuals who will use those individuals as examples to stand for an entire faith....

I wish you peace and love...
God bless...
Good morning Pennylynn... br br Quote: br "I... (show quote)

Reply
Jan 29, 2019 21:45:59   #
ron vrooman Loc: Now OR, born NV
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWXqQV4bfPI&feature=em-uploademail

Reply
Jan 29, 2019 23:57:02   #
debeda
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
His basic premise is true... Islam holds that Christ is not God... All christian holidays are innately 'offensive' to Islam... Just as all non-christian holidays worshipping alternatively are innately 'offensive' to Christianity... (Thanks for the example, Lonewolf)...

He is entitled to his beliefs but should keep them private where they belong... There is no call for this sort of radicalism...

Muslims who do not wish to be subject to christian philosophy should not immigrate to Christian nations...

I doubt he would enjoy life in Saudi Arabia...
His basic premise is true... Islam holds that Chri... (show quote)


So what is it they find so heinous about jews?

Reply
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