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Trump's Attacks on the Working Class 3 - Forced Arbitration
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Jun 6, 2018 14:21:43   #
pafret Loc: Northeast
 
Floyd Brown wrote:
Well I am flabber gassed or some thing like that.
I could never say speechless be cause I have some thing to say about almost every thing.

Well you do deserve some thing for listing all of this. But I don't know just what.
Will thank you do?


No need to thank me, thank Trump for being so explicit about what he would do. This is a total contrast to "I'll give you hope and change" by Obama and "I'll give you more of the same and higher taxes to boot" by Hillary.

We have his goals now it is our turn to keep the pressure on him to deliver those elements we find most galling and in need of correction. Also , this is a convenient scorecard to assess his effectiveness.

At the end of the day, unless he takes up Bill Clinton's habits and craps on the Resolute desk in the Oval Office pretty much all else is a "who cares". He needs to make a valiant effort to keep his word.

Some Representative suggested using Crowd Source to fund the wall which pretty much sucks and is an abdication of responsibility on the part of Congress. A better idea would be for Trump to invite the wealthiest members of Congress to meetings in the Whitehouse, take them prisoner and hold them for ransom. A hundred million each should do it, and these funds could be earmarked to build the wall.

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Jun 6, 2018 14:28:06   #
Voice of Reason Loc: Earth
 
pafret wrote:
A better idea would be for Trump to invite the wealthiest members of Congress to meetings in the Whitehouse, take them prisoner and hold them for ransom. A hundred million each should do it, and these funds could be earmarked to build the wall.


LOL. The only problem is nobody would pay the ransom. It might be better if he charged $100M each to keep 'em locked up.

Reply
Jun 6, 2018 16:47:47   #
pafret Loc: Northeast
 
Voice of Reason wrote:
LOL. The only problem is nobody would pay the ransom. It might be better if he charged $100M each to keep 'em locked up.


That works with me, they do less damage that way.

Reply
Jun 6, 2018 17:10:48   #
king hall Loc: Tucson,AZ.
 
straightUp wrote:
And now for my third assessment on how Trump and his axis are attacking the working family. I've covered his resistance to the fiduciary rule that would have prevented retirement fund managers from scamming the savings workers put aside for retirement (no one had an answer to that one) and I covered his tax policy that WILL cut services to working families while creating a record-breaking $1 trillion deficit. This third exhibit focuses on his pressure to force arbitration.

Unlike the tax cut scam, this assault is not so much a direct attack as it is a disabling of protections. So like the fiduciary rule that is designed to protect retirement savings, the fight to allow workers the right to take their employers to court when their employers have violated state, local or even federal labor laws is being denied.

This is a somewhat complicated issue, which many people won't have the patience to understand, so instead of explaining this myself only to be told that I'm too wordy, I'm going to refer to this very well-written article that explains the recent Supreme Court decision on the matter and some background to put the decision (and my opinion) in context. If you prefer simple statements that lack detail, feel free to fast forward to my conclusion...

http://www.scotusblog.com/2018/05/opinion-analysis-employers-prevail-in-arbitration-case/

Conclusion:
With new forced arbitration clauses becoming popular with employers, workers are being forced to give up their rights as citizens to bring grievances to court. This effectively gives the employers the right to ignore labor laws and treat their workers any way they want. Since the court decision, penned by Gorsuch, was finalized last week, an estimated 60 million workers have lost their rights this way. This is what I call a silent attack on the working family because the crimes occur in the private sector and the refusal by Trump and the Republicans in the public sector to do anything to protect the workers from these crimes insure that the crimes themselves and any resulting arbitration will remain private business and therefore unseen by the public.

This isn't the first time Americans have been here, in 1925 The Federal Arbitration Act, backed up the employers who wanted to block their workers from the courts and force them to settle disputes directly with their employers. But nine years later it was becoming increasingly obvious that the workers have no leverage as arbitration often came down to "do you want to keep your job?" So The National Labor Relations Act was passed to allow workers to arbitrate collectively, so not the worker can answer the previous question with "do you want production to halt?" At least this way the table is even. But recently, companies have been adding clauses to their arbitration agreements that say workers cannot collectively arbitrate. This too was enforced by the court decision and now American workers can't even rally together.

There is no doubt this will cause almost every employer in the nation to include similar arbitration agreements as a means of limiting liability and this will no doubt make our labor laws moot. I can pay someone 65 cents an hour and work him for 16 hours a day and even though I'd be breaking labor laws it wouldn't matter if the worker can't even take m to court.

Make no mistake... If you are a working class American like I am (any American that needs to work for a living) Trump is NOT your friend... he is your ENEMY!
And now for my third assessment on how Trump and h... (show quote)


straightup, I read the SCOTUS ruling you referred to...did You? The Court clearly took the position of respecting the current Law as it was intended 77 years ago. The ruling just as clearly unmasked you as the troll you are. Just a straight up Punk spewing fear through misinformation. "new forced arbitration clauses" what garbage!

Reply
Jun 6, 2018 20:41:54   #
badbob85037
 
Straight up, maybe you would like the special I.m having this week only. Clues I sell for $7.00 a piece this week are only 3 for $25. You must have not seen any news this week or been watching CNN. Over a million jobs have been created since the tax cut took effect. Black Unemployment is at an all time low. America took back this month the nation with the most robust economy. A title we lost under obama in 2015.Here is a free clue to impress your friends After the election of worthless for over a year for the first and only time in my life I saw the construction trade end. Not slow down but end and for the next 16 months it stayed ended. Stimulus? $787 billion. IF ANY OF THAT MONEY MADE IT TO THE BANKS TELL ME HOW IT WOULD BRING US OUT OF A DEAD COUNTRY WITH NO JOBS WHEN BANKS WERE MAKING MORE INTEREST IF THEY HELD THE CASH AND NOT LOAN IT OUT? Lets see how many billions was Trump given to get the job market going?
?

Reply
Jun 6, 2018 23:08:56   #
Loki Loc: Georgia
 
straightUp wrote:
And now for my third assessment on how Trump and his axis are attacking the working family. I've covered his resistance to the fiduciary rule that would have prevented retirement fund managers from scamming the savings workers put aside for retirement (no one had an answer to that one) and I covered his tax policy that WILL cut services to working families while creating a record-breaking $1 trillion deficit. This third exhibit focuses on his pressure to force arbitration.

Unlike the tax cut scam, this assault is not so much a direct attack as it is a disabling of protections. So like the fiduciary rule that is designed to protect retirement savings, the fight to allow workers the right to take their employers to court when their employers have violated state, local or even federal labor laws is being denied.

This is a somewhat complicated issue, which many people won't have the patience to understand, so instead of explaining this myself only to be told that I'm too wordy, I'm going to refer to this very well-written article that explains the recent Supreme Court decision on the matter and some background to put the decision (and my opinion) in context. If you prefer simple statements that lack detail, feel free to fast forward to my conclusion...

http://www.scotusblog.com/2018/05/opinion-analysis-employers-prevail-in-arbitration-case/

Conclusion:
With new forced arbitration clauses becoming popular with employers, workers are being forced to give up their rights as citizens to bring grievances to court. This effectively gives the employers the right to ignore labor laws and treat their workers any way they want. Since the court decision, penned by Gorsuch, was finalized last week, an estimated 60 million workers have lost their rights this way. This is what I call a silent attack on the working family because the crimes occur in the private sector and the refusal by Trump and the Republicans in the public sector to do anything to protect the workers from these crimes insure that the crimes themselves and any resulting arbitration will remain private business and therefore unseen by the public.

This isn't the first time Americans have been here, in 1925 The Federal Arbitration Act, backed up the employers who wanted to block their workers from the courts and force them to settle disputes directly with their employers. But nine years later it was becoming increasingly obvious that the workers have no leverage as arbitration often came down to "do you want to keep your job?" So The National Labor Relations Act was passed to allow workers to arbitrate collectively, so not the worker can answer the previous question with "do you want production to halt?" At least this way the table is even. But recently, companies have been adding clauses to their arbitration agreements that say workers cannot collectively arbitrate. This too was enforced by the court decision and now American workers can't even rally together.

There is no doubt this will cause almost every employer in the nation to include similar arbitration agreements as a means of limiting liability and this will no doubt make our labor laws moot. I can pay someone 65 cents an hour and work him for 16 hours a day and even though I'd be breaking labor laws it wouldn't matter if the worker can't even take m to court.

Make no mistake... If you are a working class American like I am (any American that needs to work for a living) Trump is NOT your friend... he is your ENEMY!
And now for my third assessment on how Trump and h... (show quote)


So Trump is our enemy because you disagree with a SCOTUS decision. Hokay. What about the decisions you disagree with before Trump became president? Are they his fault also?

Reply
Jun 7, 2018 02:46:18   #
badbob85037
 
I will bet 90% of those cities have long been controlled by democrats where there isn't a gun law they don't support. I will also bet those cities have so many gun laws the honest citizen has been disarmed setting up a work safe utopia for criminals. But you can't blame them being those democrats are also criminals.

Reply
Jun 7, 2018 05:08:31   #
old marine Loc: America home of the brave
 
Voice of Reason wrote:
LOL. The only problem is nobody would pay the ransom. It might be better if he charged $100M each to keep 'em locked up.

I prefer a better way. Lock up all the Obummer's administration that raided the tax payers cookie jar and seize all their assets and apply it to building the wall. That is the best way.



Semper Fi brother's and sister's and all true American patriots every where long may old glory fly over the land of the free and home of the brave.

Reply
Jun 7, 2018 08:47:16   #
permafrost Loc: Minnesota
 
badbob85037 wrote:
Straight up, maybe you would like the special I.m having this week only. Clues I sell for $7.00 a piece this week are only 3 for $25. You must have not seen any news this week or been watching CNN. Over a million jobs have been created since the tax cut took effect. Black Unemployment is at an all time low. America took back this month the nation with the most robust economy. A title we lost under obama in 2015.Here is a free clue to impress your friends After the election of worthless for over a year for the first and only time in my life I saw the construction trade end. Not slow down but end and for the next 16 months it stayed ended. Stimulus? $787 billion. IF ANY OF THAT MONEY MADE IT TO THE BANKS TELL ME HOW IT WOULD BRING US OUT OF A DEAD COUNTRY WITH NO JOBS WHEN BANKS WERE MAKING MORE INTEREST IF THEY HELD THE CASH AND NOT LOAN IT OUT? Lets see how many billions was Trump given to get the job market going?
?
Straight up, maybe you would like the special I.m ... (show quote)




Construction has been working for years now.. The housing bubble burst under Bush jr..

Reply
Jun 7, 2018 09:07:26   #
old marine Loc: America home of the brave
 
permafrost wrote:
Construction has been working for years now.. The housing bubble burst under Bush jr..

You failed to include a warning to the Democrat party running the two programs was in danger by letting blacks but houses with no ability to pay the mortgages.

They would destroy the value of the property and have so much damage to repair the mortgage holders lost billions.

Most lived in the new homes for almost a year and never paid a note until they finally were removed.


Semper Fi brother's and sisters and the true America patriots everywhere and may. Old glory fly over the land of the free and home of the brave.

Reply
Jun 7, 2018 09:23:23   #
permafrost Loc: Minnesota
 
old marine wrote:
You failed to include a warning to the Democrat party running the two programs was in danger by letting blacks but houses with no ability to pay the mortgages.

They would destroy the value of the property and have so much damage to repair the mortgage holders lost billions.

Most lived in the new homes for almost a year and never paid a note until they finally were removed.


Semper Fi brother's and sisters and the true America patriots everywhere and may. Old glory fly over the land of the free and home of the brave.
You failed to include a warning to the Democrat pa... (show quote)




Heck, I could rant all day about the stupidity of all those foolish mortgages that were allowed..

I do not know the who or why that managed to happen..

I do know that loan officers loved it while it lasted. Them made a pile of money..

I can never feel badly for banks.. No matter how things shake out, banks make a ton of money from it..

You do know that nearly all the safe guards on banks have been removed by trump and this or similar could happen again..

When the saving and loan scandal went down, i thought we would never see that kind of criminal behavior happen again.

2008 proved my wrong.. I bet this sort of theft will happen again now also..

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Check out topic: Impeach Biden?
Jun 7, 2018 11:30:31   #
pafret Loc: Northeast
 
straightUp wrote:
pafret, I do appreciate your effort here but you realize you just made a liar of yourself right? You said (and I quote) "His list of goals was the foundation of his candidacy" you also described those goals as being "enumerated and publicly stated".

But what you came up with is a list 276 items that was compiled by a journalist that had nothing to do with Trump's campaign. In fact the list originally only included 76 items and was later expanded from a "collection of Trump’s speeches, public comments, tweets and campaign and transition websites."

When people say a candidate's goals are the "foundation of his candidacy" they usually assume the candidate actually has a formalized list of his own, like Obama, who published his goals with detailed strategies in the form of a book, well ahead of his campaign trail. Now, I realize that Trump supporters aren't exactly the book-reading type, so maybe it wasn't important to the Trump camp and that's fine but don't sit there with a list that some journalist compiled of the various comments Trump made DURING his campaign and say it's the foundation of his candidacy.

And since the author DID compile this list from a collection of speeches, public comments, tweet and websites, each of these items could very well be just whatever nonsense crossed Trumps mind at various moments during these events. Trump is constantly saying things off the cuff and people have noticed his inconsistencies and self contradictions.

I've also noticed how the number of items on a list seems to make an impression on deplorables. They seem to think that a list of 10 well thought out ideas can be beaten by a list of 100 idiot statements, or that a lie can become true if it's repeated enough times. It's weird, but I can tell you right now, a list of ten well thought out ideas would make a much better impression on me than this list of... 276 off-the-cuff comments by a compulsive liar.

Sorry pafret... I hope your didn't exhaust yourself with all that copy-pasting. ;)
pafret, I do appreciate your effort here but you r... (show quote)


I could have looked up the YouTube videos of Trump making those statements but having seen them, this list seemed all encompassing. I didn't care that the journalist who compiled the list was attempting to discredit Trump; it remained none the less a good summary of what was promised. Incidentally, I copied this several months ago and kept it in my records for the purpose of a scorecard in regard to promises made and kept. The exact numbers are meaningless, only the underlying recognition that a problem exists and a promise to rectify that problem matters. I am not naive, i am well aware that he will fail on most of this because he has to work with the Congress, which is filled with contrarians of both parties.

The essence then is that he has goals which are desirable to most Americans and has stated he will attempt to accomplish those goals. It is for us to keep reminding him of our wants and pressuring those who stand in the way of our getting what we want for this nation.

To cavil at my list of specifics is peurile. Make up your own but do understand that we have a President who is attempting to improve our nation. We have much to recover, starting with our basic right to privacy, freedom of speech and religion and the right to bear arms. The extent of the deterioration of our basic liberties is played out in Macrocosm by the spies being utilized by the Democrats and the subversion of our alphabet spook agencies into an instrument of repression of the citizenry. Weaponization of the IRS and Justice/FBI departments gives testimony that we now have overlords and a privileged ruling class, immune from the law of the land.

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Jun 7, 2018 15:06:36   #
Voice of Reason Loc: Earth
 
straightUp wrote:
Actually, he wrote and published a book titled "Change We Can Believe In" that specifically listed his goals AND strategies for attaining them. I have a copy. He did a pretty good job of implementing his strategies too.


Most political candidates, in this era, have free websites on which they list their goals and strategies. Obama, OTOH, decided to make useful idiots PAY to get his book o' lies.

Personally, I would have thought nobody would be dumb enough to buy that, but apparently I still manage to underestimate the stupidity of useful idiot leftists.

So, what was his strategy for paying the $2.1 billion it cost for the Obamacare website?

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Jun 7, 2018 16:20:58   #
straightUp Loc: California
 
Floyd Brown wrote:
Ok so flabbergasted is no a real word. This time spell check didn't pick it up as wrong.
Some where in the back of my mind was the thought that there was a word like that.

flabbergast - verb: to overwhelm with shock, surprise, or wonder - Merriam-Webster

Floyd Brown wrote:

I go along with Obama having a list light that.


The copy I bought new in 2008 is now tattered from use. ;)

Floyd Brown wrote:

But I will say at least many of them applied to Trump alone.

I don't understand what you mean.

Reply
Jun 7, 2018 17:55:02   #
straightUp Loc: California
 
Voice of Reason wrote:
Did you drop out of your much-vaunted journalism school after, maybe, a day or two? That might explain how you, and only you, could miscontrue the first part of my post, which is a statement, as a question.

I didn't "miscontrue" anything. The first part of your post was a sarcastic misrepresentation of my concern, so I responded to that separately. The second part was the question that I said makes no sense. You asked... "do you still support the right of all employees to pay confiscatory union dues, whether they want to or not?"

Voice of Reason wrote:

Then, while correctly acknowledging my sarcasm, you missed where it is. However, I take responsibility for that. Usually, when conversing with you I try to lower the complexity of my writing to a first-grade level. However, I was lazy with that posting and I now recognize that it is more like third-grade, therefore beyond your capabilities. My bad.

Just do the best you can to write a complete sentence.

Voice of Reason wrote:

The question I wrote, "do you still support the right of all employees to pay confiscatory union dues, whether they want to or not?" was sarcasm. I probably should have put quotes around the word "right", but I thought that "confiscatory" would be enough of a clue, not to mention the 'want to or not' part. Apparently they didn't cover 'confiscatory' in the first day or two of journalism school, huh? Again, my bad.

Quotes around the word "right" would have been better. The problem is that sites like these are filled with poorly written posts so that line between clever sarcasm and stupidity gets pretty blurry, sometimes we just have to guess... "is he being sarcastic or stupid?"

Voice of Reason wrote:

You see, it's not like forcing somebody to have a right to free speech, it's more like forcing somebody to pay Obamacare premiums when they don't want Obamacare.

Please tell me you're being sarcastic... I mean, you don't really think a mandatory regulation is a right do you?

Voice of Reason wrote:

So, I'll try again in a simpler manner, without any sarcasm or nuances which so easily confuse you.

Do you support the right of unions to force workers to pay confiscatory union dues, whether the workers want to or not?

That isn't what you asked... You originally asked about the "right of all employees to pay confiscatory union dues", NOW you're asking about the rights of unions to force workers to pay confiscatory union dues."

This isn't about nuance Sparky... You fundamentally changed the meaning of the sentence by swapping out the object. That being said, my simple answer to your simple question is that it depends on whether or not the workers in question are being served by the union. It's a simple matter of paying for what you get. If you need a union to protect your rights as a worker then you should pay for it. If you don't then don't join a union.

Personally, I'm doing fine without a union but that's only because I have skills that are in high demand and low supply so I can negotiate my own terms. Union workers typically have skills that are in abundant supply making them more disposable and in more need of protection.

So let me ask YOU something...

How does ANY of this excuse forced arbitration and the blocking of citizens from the justice system?

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