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Sorry, I honestly don't understand why the resistance to tighter gun-control
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Feb 16, 2018 02:35:37   #
rumitoid
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
Hello, anybody home? If anyone is there, we have a message for you, do you know how to read?

Trump rescinded an Obama-era mental health regulation on firearms. This has been brought up before. Last November, former Air Force veteran David Patrick Kelley killed 26 people in a church in Sutherland Springs, Texas. He should have been barred from owning firearms since he served a year in jail for domestic abuse, but the Air Force didn’t forward his criminal record to the FBI to update the National Instant Background Check Database. First, the regulation never went into effect. Second, various disability advocacy groups and the American Civil Liberties Union opposed it (via Stephen Gutowski)

The regulation in question was adopted in December 2016 and went into effect on January 18, 2017, after the election of President Trump but before his inauguration two days later. Compliance with the rule was scheduled to begin on December 19, 2017. Before compliance ever began, however, the rule was repealed by a law passed through the House of Representatives and Senate, then signed by President Trump in February 2017. The regulation never had any effect.

The regulation would have required the Social Security Administration to report recipients who have their benefits managed by a representative payee and who meet other criteria to the FBI's background check system, effectively barring them from legally owning firearms. It would have applied to recipients between the ages 18 and 65 who Social Security assigned a representative payee to after determining they were unable to manage their own finances due to a mental impairment. The Social Security Administration would then notify those affected over the phone and in writing. Those affected would have been able to challenge their designation but only after their records have been submitted to the FBI.

Groups from across the political spectrum fought against the regulation's implementation and urged its repeal. Gun-rights groups like the National Rifle Association said the rule was a "gun grab" and criticized it for lacking a determination that those affected are a threat to themselves or others.

The National Council on Disability, Consortium for Citizens With Disabilities, and National Coalition for Mental Health Recovery all submitted letters calling for the reversal of the rule during hearings conducted by the Ways and Means Committee.

"There is, simply put, no nexus between the inability to manage money and the ability to safely and responsibly own, possess or use a firearm," the National Council on Disability said, echoing what the other groups have said. "This arbitrary linkage not only unnecessarily and unreasonably deprives individuals with disabilities of a constitutional right, it increases the stigma for those who, due to their disabilities, may need a representative payee."

So, when you see stuff like “Trump signed a law making it easier for the mentally ill to buy guns,” it’s a lie.
Hello, anybody home? If anyone is there, we have a... (show quote)


No, you carefully outlined is was true--under Obama.

Reply
Feb 16, 2018 05:34:30   #
wolffy
 
I really think that the media, by continuesly reporting on this for weeks on end that they get the attention of all the nutcases and some of these nuts don't need much of a push! Not meaning to lessen the horror of the event.

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Feb 16, 2018 06:20:21   #
Betta
 
Gun control laws only effect responsible law abiding citizens of the US, the very ones not committing these crimes. These laws have no effect whatsoever on criminals. You see, criminals throw their middle finger at the law. They will always be able to get guns because laws mean nothing to them. That's why they're criminals. Their favorite place to target is a gun free zone where they know there is no resistance. The responsible law abiding citizen then becomes a sitting duck with nothing to defend himself while the criminal is armed to the teeth. No criminal will submit to a back ground check to buy a gun. He's going to go to another criminal to buy a gun. The problem is the criminal not the gun. Bath house barry himself is an illegal criminal gun runner. His crime was Fast & Furious, if you recall. He still walks around free as a bird.

rumitoid wrote:
Before Obama took office and for the eight years of his presidency we got a constant barrage by the NRA, Republican legislators, Conservative Media, and alt-Right conspiracy theorists that he was going to take away all guns (with "black helicopters" confiscating them in the middle of the night and taking the owners to "FEMA concentration camps"). He didn't do that. He did tighten gun control by executive order in January of 2015. Obviously, it was not enough.

The rate of murder or manslaughter in America by firearm is the highest by far in the developed world. We have had 18 school shootings in the first 45 days of 2018. Is it really right to do absolutely nothing to try and curtail this excessive violence? Or are more and more guns the answer? "Thoughts and prayers" are falling short and come always too late to save our children. And the nuclear argument that any control means the eventual end of Second Amendment rights to cease all discussions on the subject is wrong and irresponsible. The subject needs, demands, open and sincere dialogue for the sake of our nation's innocents and all citizens.

Debating the actual intent of the wording of the Second Amendment is useless; it no longer matters. You and I both know the Founding Fathers could not have possibly envisioned our present state and this is not 1776. What matters are American lives. We keep our guns, yet make sensible universal controls to try to insure greater safety for all. If there was a pandemic, and this rampant violence is a pandemic, Federal measures would be taken to protect the general public. Safeguards to help reduce this epidemic of murder and mayhem is simply just and wise. Help me see why we shouldn't act on better precautions. Or are we just to accept these tragic loses as "the cost of freedom," as O'Reilly said, willingly sacrificing our sons and daughter's for the "un-infringed" right to keep and bear arms?
Before Obama took office and for the eight years o... (show quote)

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Feb 16, 2018 06:39:41   #
Betta
 
Coos Bay Tom wrote:
Strickter more detailed background checks would be a big help also large ammo sales should go automatically under scrutiny before the sale can go through. What is the AR 15 good for besides a pleasure gun? It was made to kill people with.-- The B word should be considered.. People should still be able to hunt with firearms or own 1 for personal safety. What's the big deal if honest citizens could still buy firearms.


The honest citizen will be restricted while the criminal will not. Criminals can get guns every day of the week without a back ground check. The honest citizen must jump through hoops. Gun control makes the honest citizen become a sitting duck in a gun free zone.

Reply
Feb 16, 2018 07:31:53   #
rebob14
 
rumitoid wrote:
Before Obama took office and for the eight years of his presidency we got a constant barrage by the NRA, Republican legislators, Conservative Media, and alt-Right conspiracy theorists that he was going to take away all guns (with "black helicopters" confiscating them in the middle of the night and taking the owners to "FEMA concentration camps"). He didn't do that. He did tighten gun control by executive order in January of 2015. Obviously, it was not enough.

The rate of murder or manslaughter in America by firearm is the highest by far in the developed world. We have had 18 school shootings in the first 45 days of 2018. Is it really right to do absolutely nothing to try and curtail this excessive violence? Or are more and more guns the answer? "Thoughts and prayers" are falling short and come always too late to save our children. And the nuclear argument that any control means the eventual end of Second Amendment rights to cease all discussions on the subject is wrong and irresponsible. The subject needs, demands, open and sincere dialogue for the sake of our nation's innocents and all citizens.

Debating the actual intent of the wording of the Second Amendment is useless; it no longer matters. You and I both know the Founding Fathers could not have possibly envisioned our present state and this is not 1776. What matters are American lives. We keep our guns, yet make sensible universal controls to try to insure greater safety for all. If there was a pandemic, and this rampant violence is a pandemic, Federal measures would be takenew to protect the general public. Safeguards to help reduce this epidemic of murder and mayhem is simply just and wise. Help me see why we shouldn't act on better precautions. Or are we just to accept these tragic loses as "the cost of freedom," as O'Reilly said, willingly sacrificing our sons and daughter's for the "un-infringed" right to keep and bear arms?
Before Obama took office and for the eight years o... (show quote)

The socialist solution to every problem...........the correct fix is always to penalize people who are living productive, law abiding lives to in order to pay for the corruption and lawlessness of a few. Socialism has, historically and without exception, destroyed the safeguards of a civil society; intact families, freedom of religion, and the preservation of God given rights. The guns are a symptom, and the most horrific of many. Guns have always existed in this country in roughly the same proportion of the population, but, the incidence of sociopathic behavior on such a large scale is recent. The truly terrifying aspect of these events is the degree to which out federal masters are willing to manipulate the people’s grief and fear for political gain. This is the ultimate and inevitable end of every government in history and ours is exhibiting very troubling behavior. We absolutely need to eliminate any loopholes in existing regulation of firearms, but it should not deprive innocent, law abiding citizens of the ability to defend their families.

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Feb 16, 2018 07:33:19   #
rebob14
 
proud republican wrote:
So what is your suggestion,Rumi???Take all the guns away???Do you really think if you will take all the guns, some idiot is not gonna find another way to kill innocent people???...Are you gonna band cars next???..Maybe knives should go too???What is you suggestion??? Realisticly??


If we ban anything, it should be keyboards!

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Feb 16, 2018 07:37:21   #
maureenthannon
 
Haven't you ever noticed that the places with the toughest gun control laws have the highest crime rates? Could it be because only the criminals have guns. Law abiding citizens who want to protest themselves can't have guns, but the criminals do because they don't obey the laws and buy their gus from illegal sources.

Reply
 
 
Feb 16, 2018 07:44:13   #
Loki Loc: Georgia
 
rumitoid wrote:
Before Obama took office and for the eight years of his presidency we got a constant barrage by the NRA, Republican legislators, Conservative Media, and alt-Right conspiracy theorists that he was going to take away all guns (with "black helicopters" confiscating them in the middle of the night and taking the owners to "FEMA concentration camps"). He didn't do that. He did tighten gun control by executive order in January of 2015. Obviously, it was not enough.

The rate of murder or manslaughter in America by firearm is the highest by far in the developed world. We have had 18 school shootings in the first 45 days of 2018. Is it really right to do absolutely nothing to try and curtail this excessive violence? Or are more and more guns the answer? "Thoughts and prayers" are falling short and come always too late to save our children. And the nuclear argument that any control means the eventual end of Second Amendment rights to cease all discussions on the subject is wrong and irresponsible. The subject needs, demands, open and sincere dialogue for the sake of our nation's innocents and all citizens.

Debating the actual intent of the wording of the Second Amendment is useless; it no longer matters. You and I both know the Founding Fathers could not have possibly envisioned our present state and this is not 1776. What matters are American lives. We keep our guns, yet make sensible universal controls to try to insure greater safety for all. If there was a pandemic, and this rampant violence is a pandemic, Federal measures would be taken to protect the general public. Safeguards to help reduce this epidemic of murder and mayhem is simply just and wise. Help me see why we shouldn't act on better precautions. Or are we just to accept these tragic loses as "the cost of freedom," as O'Reilly said, willingly sacrificing our sons and daughter's for the "un-infringed" right to keep and bear arms?
Before Obama took office and for the eight years o... (show quote)


You posted some of your "sensible gun controls." The ones that are not outright illegal are impractical to implement and impossible to enforce. You are living in a dream world. Nothing you or any other Liberal has suggested so far has any chance of succeeding. Disarming honest people who would not commit crimes even if there were no laws does absolutely nothing to deter criminals. The laws we currently have are not enforced by the Federal Agency tasked with doing so, yet you cling to the notion that passing more laws that will not be enforced either will somehow magically solve every problem; (particularly if it involves the usual Liberal panacea of throwing large amounts of someone else's money at it.)
The usual Liberal solution involves stomping all over the Second, Fourth, Fifth, Eighth, Ninth and Tenth Amendments.
You think that millions of gun owners will tamely submit to these egregious infringements of not only their Right to bear arms, but their rights to privacy, against unlawful search and seizure, incrimination, cruel and unusual punishment and the further usurpation of rights of the individual under the Ninth and Tenth Amendments. You have no idea how to deal with the massive non-compliance sure to ensue. You would set sail in a leaky boat that is bound to sink without any lifeboats but it's okay; at least you're "doing something."

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Feb 16, 2018 07:56:55   #
whitnebrat Loc: In the wilds of Oregon
 
Manning345 wrote:
I concur with your second thing, but I find the first highly restrictive if you mean we cannot transport weapons to and from legal places to shoot, and since Virginia is an open carry state, and with concealed carry permits available to qualified people, like me, I am reasonably content with the law here.


In a city, you could transport weapons in a container that wasn't readily accessible, with magazines/ammo in a different container. Outside the city limits/urban growth boundary open/concealed carry is fine.

Manning345 wrote:
Urban areas are seemingly where the most shootings occur, and where the most disturbed people simply cannot stop shooting their neighbors, and doing drive-by shootings as well. We need to look carefully into the urban situation, since it is unsafe, and unduly restricting transport and carry of weapons is simply not on.

Amen.

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Feb 16, 2018 08:03:16   #
whitnebrat Loc: In the wilds of Oregon
 
Loki wrote:
You posted some of your "sensible gun controls." The ones that are not outright illegal are impractical to implement and impossible to enforce. You are living in a dream world. Nothing you or any other Liberal has suggested so far has any chance of succeeding. Disarming honest people who would not commit crimes even if there were no laws does absolutely nothing to deter criminals. The laws we currently have are not enforced by the Federal Agency tasked with doing so, yet you cling to the notion that passing more laws that will not be enforced either will somehow magically solve every problem; (particularly if it involves the usual Liberal panacea of throwing large amounts of someone else's money at it.)
The usual Liberal solution involves stomping all over the Second, Fourth, Fifth, Eighth, Ninth and Tenth Amendments.
You think that millions of gun owners will tamely submit to these egregious infringements of not only their Right to bear arms, but their rights to privacy, against unlawful search and seizure, incrimination, cruel and unusual punishment and the further usurpation of rights of the individual under the Ninth and Tenth Amendments. You have no idea how to deal with the massive non-compliance sure to ensue. You would set sail in a leaky boat that is bound to sink without any lifeboats but it's okay; at least you're "doing something."
You posted some of your "sensible gun control... (show quote)

As a resident 'libtard', I'm disappointed. You failed to go after my simple two step solution. Surely you can find something to disagree with in that ... seeing as how anything a lib suggests is poisonous and unworkable (according to you). I'll be waiting for your analysis.

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Feb 16, 2018 08:07:30   #
Loki Loc: Georgia
 
whitnebrat wrote:
Amen.


So, tell us how that will prevent one single crime from occurring. Law abiding people abide by the law. You have not addressed the little problem of non-law abiding people. The people who will obey your transportation edict would not commit any crimes in the first place and have no need of such laws, and the rest would ignore your suggestion.

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Feb 16, 2018 08:19:51   #
Loki Loc: Georgia
 
whitnebrat wrote:
First, it is a societal problem. Those guns don't go off by themselves, somebody has to aim them and pull the trigger. Bullying and freezing oddball kids out of social interactions goes a long way towards reacting with force to years of aggregation and frustration. Identifying these kids and not allowing them to acquire or possess firearms would go a long way towards solving this problem, but most parents would say 'they're really a good kid, just misunderstood.' They would not admit that their kid had the capacity to do these kinds of things.

Second, this is a rural/urban divide mostly. Those of us that live outside city limits or way in the boonies like me, consider guns as tools. They are necessary for plinking ground squirrels, popping coyotes or wolves that are after a calf, or defending yourself when you run into the occasional hungry bear or cougar. We teach our kids from day one how to handle them and most rural kids take it to heart. And most know better than to shoot up the school, or settle disputes with firepower.

I believe two things here ... first that there is no place for handguns or assault weapons in urban areas, except inside the home for defense. I think that if you're caught on the street carrying a handgun or an assault rifle, it should send you straight to the hoosegow for a year or two. Second, that people with psycho-social traits (like anger management or impulse control problems) should be id'd and their weapons taken from them. The problem is to decide who makes the decision to legally prevent them from possessing weapons. Should it be a shrink? A judge? The local PD?

Problem is this ... there's over 300,000,000 guns in this country, and out here, there would be deputy sheriffs and US Marshals getting shot if they tried to confiscate some of the arsenals around here. So that's not a viable solution. The trick is to keep the firearms out of the hands of as many people as you can with anti-social behavior problems. That will require a culture shift for the general population. But it's the only way to get this under control. Good luck with that.
First, it is a societal problem. Those guns don't ... (show quote)


There should be no handguns or "assault weapons?" in urban areas, other than inside the home. Why don't you run right down to your local chapter of Crips, Bloods, M-13's or just an unaffiliated armed robber and tell them to hand'em over? You think you can do a better job than the cops who have been trying to do this for decades? Oh, I get it. If a law abiding person voluntarily disarms him or herself, they will automatically be immune from assault by an armed criminal, because it would be against the law for that criminal to have a gun. Brilliant.
Texas, 2013. There were 497 convictions for murder and manslaughter. One count 'em, one, was a CCP holder.
Georgia. There were more than 600,000 carry permits issued over a ten year period. Less than 100 convictions for a gun crime among them. That breaks down to an average of more than 60,000 permits per year issued and less than ten crimes committed by the recipients. Ten out of 60,000 ain't bad. Think you can do better?

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Feb 16, 2018 08:23:52   #
Snoopy
 
rumitoid wrote:
Before Obama took office and for the eight years of his presidency we got a constant barrage by the NRA, Republican legislators, Conservative Media, and alt-Right conspiracy theorists that he was going to take away all guns (with "black helicopters" confiscating them in the middle of the night and taking the owners to "FEMA concentration camps"). He didn't do that. He did tighten gun control by executive order in January of 2015. Obviously, it was not enough.

The rate of murder or manslaughter in America by firearm is the highest by far in the developed world. We have had 18 school shootings in the first 45 days of 2018. Is it really right to do absolutely nothing to try and curtail this excessive violence? Or are more and more guns the answer? "Thoughts and prayers" are falling short and come always too late to save our children. And the nuclear argument that any control means the eventual end of Second Amendment rights to cease all discussions on the subject is wrong and irresponsible. The subject needs, demands, open and sincere dialogue for the sake of our nation's innocents and all citizens.

Debating the actual intent of the wording of the Second Amendment is useless; it no longer matters. You and I both know the Founding Fathers could not have possibly envisioned our present state and this is not 1776. What matters are American lives. We keep our guns, yet make sensible universal controls to try to insure greater safety for all. If there was a pandemic, and this rampant violence is a pandemic, Federal measures would be taken to protect the general public. Safeguards to help reduce this epidemic of murder and mayhem is simply just and wise. Help me see why we shouldn't act on better precautions. Or are we just to accept these tragic loses as "the cost of freedom," as O'Reilly said, willingly sacrificing our sons and daughter's for the "un-infringed" right to keep and bear arms?
Before Obama took office and for the eight years o... (show quote)


Rumitoid:

First of all the 18 reported school shootings are slanted to include instances where no one was at the schools, shooter was accidentally in a school parking lot at night and in most others no one one was hurt.

Aside from that: when are you folks going to catch on to the real culprit? Mental Health!! ALL of these shooters had mental issues. Linking the mental health data base with the NICS data base would go a long way to help that problem.

I do believe in proper training for ANYONE owning a gun and background checks.

The elite in this country have the money to hire professional armed guards while spouting "gun control". We have a situation in the United States where everyone is equal but those with money are MORE equal than others.

As far as the Second Amendment the wording is TIMELESS! It means we all have the right to protect and defend family and loved ones.

Snoopy

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Feb 16, 2018 08:45:12   #
snowbear37 Loc: MA.
 
rumitoid wrote:
Before Obama took office and for the eight years of his presidency we got a constant barrage by the NRA, Republican legislators, Conservative Media, and alt-Right conspiracy theorists that he was going to take away all guns (with "black helicopters" confiscating them in the middle of the night and taking the owners to "FEMA concentration camps"). He didn't do that. He did tighten gun control by executive order in January of 2015. Obviously, it was not enough.

The rate of murder or manslaughter in America by firearm is the highest by far in the developed world. We have had 18 school shootings in the first 45 days of 2018. Is it really right to do absolutely nothing to try and curtail this excessive violence? Or are more and more guns the answer? "Thoughts and prayers" are falling short and come always too late to save our children. And the nuclear argument that any control means the eventual end of Second Amendment rights to cease all discussions on the subject is wrong and irresponsible. The subject needs, demands, open and sincere dialogue for the sake of our nation's innocents and all citizens.

Debating the actual intent of the wording of the Second Amendment is useless; it no longer matters. You and I both know the Founding Fathers could not have possibly envisioned our present state and this is not 1776. What matters are American lives. We keep our guns, yet make sensible universal controls to try to insure greater safety for all. If there was a pandemic, and this rampant violence is a pandemic, Federal measures would be taken to protect the general public. Safeguards to help reduce this epidemic of murder and mayhem is simply just and wise. Help me see why we shouldn't act on better precautions. Or are we just to accept these tragic loses as "the cost of freedom," as O'Reilly said, willingly sacrificing our sons and daughter's for the "un-infringed" right to keep and bear arms?
Before Obama took office and for the eight years o... (show quote)


For the last 20 years, this country has done nothing but "tighten" gun control laws and it has done nothing to stop criminals and "nut-cases" from using them. It is not the gun control laws that we need to be addressing, guns don't kill people - people kill people. As demonstrated in Paris a couple of years ago, if a "nut-case" can't get a gun, a truck will do as much damage. The concept of removing all guns from society just endangers innocent and sane people even more, because criminals and insane people don't care about "gun control laws". We would do better to re-open sanitariums and populate them with all the psychiatrists and psychologists first. How difficult is that to understand??

Reply
Feb 16, 2018 09:08:16   #
CowboyMilt
 
saltwind 78 wrote:
rumitoid, Just check out the responses to my post AR15 knockoffs. As long as these people want to keep their play toys that make them feel powerful, kids will continue to die.



WHY RESISTANCE TO TIGHTER GUN-CONTROL? Simple, gun control doesn't work! All it does is make law abiding citizens have a harder time getting guns & ammunition! Criminals DO NOT obey laws...that's why they are called criminals.

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