emarine

You must be a very experienced pilot to understand the level of difficulty to crash a 757 into a large building...

payne1000

I watched the video where David Chandler gives his views on what happened at the Pentagon. Chandler does not change his views on the controlled demolition of the towers.
Since you are accepting what he says about the Pentagon, wouldn't that mean you also accept what he says about the towers? Or do you just cherry-pick the evidence you want and ignore all other?

Go to the 43 minute mark on the video and watch the animation of the airliner entering the Pentagon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9-O6iqJnOA There are some large wire spools on the lawn directly in the path of the airliner. The animators have the plane pass through those spools without moving the spools. Those spools have always been strong evidence that no airliner hit the Pentagon. If it had the spools would not have still been there. They are too tall for the plane to miss.

payne1000

Go to the 6:15 mark on this video to hear a Spanish airline pilot declare that it would be impossible for amateur pilots to hit the towers or the Pentagon at the speeds recorded.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMJUJO794f8

emarine

Depends on what you consider a skyscraper... there has never been any controlled demolitions of buildings over 440ft... close to 1/3 the WTC towers...

you quote..."It's not a theory that no airliner hit WTC7 . . . it's a fact."... no one said a airliner hit WTC 7...

again you quote..."It's not a theory that steel-framed skyscrapers collapse can't be caused by the same weight they were designed to support . . . it's a fact."...no that's a joke from some clueless troofer who reads too much pseudoscience & loves spreading propaganda with misleading still photos...

My identity has little bearing on Newton's basic laws...

Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON

Ha! no, payne, your story has always been that the 30 floors and the 15 floors could not collapse from the damage done by the airliners or the small, random short duration fires. My position has always been that the extreme damage from aircraft impacts and HUGE FUKING FIRES caused the towers to collapse.

As you have proven time and again, you are totally ignorant of the laws of science and the nature of fire. Particularly, uncontrolled, unmanageable, unchecked fire.

Here's the thing about fire, payne, the vast majority of people on this planet are familiar with, experienced with, and enjoy the benefits of fire and heat when under control and manageable. Striking a match, flicking a Bic, heating their homes, cooking their food, firing up a backyard grill, burning leaves and trash, getting a campfire going, and so on. Their knowledge of and experience with fire and heat is limited to the friendly aspects of it. You are one of these people.

And, some percentage of those lacking knowledge of the dangers of uncontrolled fire have felt the terrible sting of fire and heat when it gets out of control, whether it be the loss of property, painful injury, or death.

There are far fewer people on this planet who are educated in fire science, who are trained, equipped and experienced in dealing with and combatting uncontrolled fires. These are the fire engineers and fire fighters. You are not among them.

"Fire" is, in many respects, a generic term that means anything from discharging a firearm to logs burning in a fireplace to the fire in a burning building. Fire is in fact a chemical reaction known as combustion, it is the combination of heat, fuel and oxygen. Flames and smoke are byproducts of combustion. IOW, heat and fire are two different things. Combustion can occur without producing flame. Just because no flame is visible doesn't mean combustion is not taking place.

In a building fire, searing hot gas, not flame and smoke, can whistle through a crack as thin as a sheet of paper, it can slip under a door, blow through a key hole, charge up inside a wall, burning insulation, melting electrical wire, switches and outlets, it can boil water in metal pipes, turn it to steam, cause the pipes to burst. it can blast through AC and heating ducts where it will burst into another part of the building and the fire spreads.

Organic compounds, such as wood, paper, plastics, and fabrics, all contain oxygen molecules which can complete the "fire triangle --heat, fuel and oxygen--and undergo combustion without an outside source of oxygen and without producing flames.

In a closed room without ventilation, a couch, chair, or bed can smoulder for hours without a whif of air or producing a lick of flame. Hot gas, smoke, and combustion particles rise to the ceiling, cool and descend to be heated and rise again, creating a circulation of increasingly hotter gases and particles. Temperatures inside the room can reach 1800F to 2000F, door knobs get red hot, light metals in the room melt and plastics become liquid. Flashover conditions have developed, all the beast needs is a breath of air. An alert firefighter can see the signs without ever breaching the room. The thing in the room breaths, smoke and hot gas puffs out under the door or other small crack and is drawn back in again. Open the door and it will suck in a huge gust of air and explode.

Conditions inside a burning building are extremely dangerous, the uncertainty factor is very high, no firefighter knows going in what can possibly happen, how the fire will behave. This is what we train for every day we are on duty. This is why we gear up with the best protective clothing and equipment the city budget can afford.

The fires in the twin towers were huge, payne, they were spread over dozens of acres of floors containing thousands of tons of organic combustibles. It is entirely possible that flashover conditions could have developed in the closed spaces within the core area. Temps in there could have easily reached 1800F to 2000F. And, the core area is where the core columns were located.

It is little wonder that a woman trapped on the 103rd floor in the North Tower screamed in fear to the dispatcher on the phone that it was very hot in there, that they were "burning up."

We must ask also why a commodities trader and his assistant were trapped in their office on the 86th floor of the North Tower, 8 floors below the lowest floor in the impact zone. Why did this man get on the phone to a NYC TV station and tell the world that they were trapped, that they couldn't open the door, that debris had blocked it, that debris was all around them, that smoke was coming in from the hallway, that debris was falling upon and around them, and that part of the core had been blown out. Fear on the 86th Floor

Fire Engineering: WORLD TRADE CENTER DISASTER: INITIAL RESPONSE
At no time in world history has a fire department ever been called on to respond to a single incident of such magnitude as the attack on the World Trade Center.

You've got your ridiculous, unbelievable little theories about 9/11, none of which you are able to justify with any sort of reason, experience, knowledge or critical thought. Stick with them, payne, but don't pretend that you can accurately determine the fire situation in the twin towers by looking at a picture.

emarine

Not interested in the pentagon event & never have been...

emarine

half did... then fell last after everything else... the walls you picture were either ground floor steel or steal section that landed upright held up by debris... according to you the perps blew up every floor... so you dispute yourself...

Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON

No, I only accept the truth about the attack on the Pentagon. Chandler prefaced his video with the testimony of 30 eyewitnesses who saw the plane hit the building. And, based on the overwhelming evidence that a jet liner did in fact hit the Pentagon, he had no choice but to agree. Up to a point. Chandler could not escape the ridiculous notion that the jet was unmanned. Chandler only confirms that a Boeing jetliner crashed into the Pentagon. This does not mean that I accept in any way, shape or form his pseudo-scientific explanation of a controlled demolition of the WTC towers.

At 1:05:28 in his video, Chandler describes the collision of the right engine with a large generator trailer on the Pentagon lawn, and at 1:06:20, he explains why the jet missed the cable spools on the lawn. In his own words, "One thing that did not happen was the collision with the cable spools that were sitting on the lawn. It turns out that the geometry of the impact allowed the plane to clear the spools."

Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON

Terrorists flew big heavy planes full of fuel really fast through the twin towers, blowing the guts out them and setting massive fires that weakened support steel to the point it could no longer hold up the buildings, and so they collapsed. Big hot chunks of Tower 1 smashed into building 7, tore several nasty gashes in it and set it on fire. Since the fire department was short on water and man power, the fire burned out of control for 7 hours and down came Humpty Dumpty.

Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON

Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON

Ong and Sweeney made their calls on the air phones installed in the cabins. Sweeney had to borrow a credit card to make the call.

13 passengers from Flight 93 made a total of over 30 calls to both family and emergency personnel (twenty-two confirmed air phone calls, two confirmed cell phone and eight not specified). Brenda Raney, Verizon Wireless spokesperson, said that Flight 93 was supported by several cell sites. There were reportedly three phone calls from Flight 11, five from Flight 175, and three calls from Flight 77. Two calls from these flights were recorded, placed by flight attendants: Betty Ong on Flight 11 and CeeCee Lyles on Flight 93

Alexa Graf, an AT&T spokesperson, said it was almost a fluke that the calls reached their destinations. Marvin Sirbu, professor of Engineering and Public Policy at Carnegie Mellon University said on September 14, 2001, that "The fact of the matter is that cell phones can work in almost all phases of a commercial flight." Other industry experts said that it is possible to use cell phones with varying degrees of success during the ascent and descent of commercial airline flights.

Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON

It is impossible for me to find any common sense in the belief that George Bush, Dick Cheney, and Donald Rumsfeld were so zealous, so corrupt, so rotten, so overwhelmed by greed and hostility that they and rogue elements of the US government, or not, along with agents, operatives, and bureaucrats from not only within the US government and our military but from Israel and from many areas of the corporate and private sector could muster the wherewithal, the competence, the money, material resources, and manpower to plan, organize, and execute all that the 9/11 conspiracy movement has accused them of. And, to do it in such secrecy that in nearly 17 years not a single whistleblower has come out, not a single leak anywhere. The federal government is a bureaucratic nightmare, it leaks like a screen door in a submarine. Considering the number of people who would have had be involved, the wages, the payoffs, sub rosa agreements, the acquisition of materials, military hardware, the vetting of participants, the oaths to secrecy, the logistics, the security, the preparations and work, and finally the execution, it is virtually impossible to believe this could have been accomplished.

And considering human nature, there is no way absolute secrecy could have been maintained over such a long period of time.

KSM's "Planes Operation" was a brilliant plan, it was efficient and remarkably inexpensive in its material needs and logistics. All the Al Qaeda leaders had to do was train a few men, finance their travel, provide for their basic needs, and cut them loose. It has been estimated that the entire operation cost just $450 to $500 million. They did not have to smuggle any weapons or ordnance into the US, they had weapons ready and waiting for them at airports near their targets. The attackers did not have to scout their targets or even get near them until the morning they flew their weapons into them.

The hijacker pilots had enough flight training, both in aircraft and big jet simulators, that there is no doubt they could fly the planes. They obviously did not train for or need to perform the most demanding stages of aircraft flight, take off and landing, and the longest a hijacker pilot had control of a jet on 9/11 was 47 minutes (Flight 77), the shortest flight from hijacking to crash was 21 minutes (flight 175).

Based on my experience in aviation, firefighting, and my studies of the sciences, up to and including university level courses, there is nothing about the 9/11 conspiracy movement's claims, speculations, and allegations about an "inside job" that makes any sense whatsoever.

bdamage Loc: My Bunker

And what, in your opinion, is the reason that more than a dozen surveillance cameras seem to have magically not captured this incident?
Why has the footage been hidden from the public?

bdamage Loc: My Bunker

Surveillance footage please.

payne1000

The reason no towers over 440 ft have been demolished with explosives before or after 9/11 is that all buildings taller than that have not needed to be demolished.
You have no valid explanation of how the same weight the towers had held up for over half a century could crush them to the ground in under 15 seconds.
Truth is not spelled "troof." Those who spell it that way are those who have no respect for truth . . . the same people who always hide behind gutless anonymity.
The same people who try to pretend that Newton's Third Law allowed the towers to collapse without an equal and opposite reaction.