Liberty Tree

What do you do with Jesus' teachings on Hell?

Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON

The word Jesus used was gehenna, not hell.

Long read, but knock yourself out:

PeterS

Whatever tweaks your cookies but if god has the ability to effect change in me I am sure he would have done that long ago. A better prayer would be that he lightens the heart of Conservative Christians as most are the most bitter and sour people I have ever run across. More than a few have expressed their desire to harm me for the egregious sin of thinking differently than they do. I think they honestly see a liberal as someone who is as evil as a member of ISIS and instead of a fellow American who simply thinks differently than they do. Those are the ones you should be praying for as they are under the delusion that their life is blessed as they follow the will of Christ. Of course it isn't Christ that they follow but if I tell them that then their desire to kill me seems to expand even further. So if you want to pray for me I would ask that you do so by praying for them as the Conservative Christians I've met are more in need of prayer than I am. If I am to go to hell I honesty don't want to go with them--I've done nothing so serious as to deserve that...

Liberty Tree

What you have posted is one man's opinion. Greek scholars translate the word "Gehenna" as Hell as do all the most reliable translations. It was the word used in New Testament times for Hell. Jesus spoke of eternal punishment and fire on several occasions.

mwdegutis Loc: Illinois

Simple questions...
Is there a hell?
Will I barbecue or will I simply have the eternal sleep that my
beliefs predicate anyway?

Simple answer...
There is a hell and if you end up there you will live forever in eternal separation from God in a place far worse than you could ever imagine.

Detailed answers...

gotQuestions.org
Question: "Is hell real? Is hell eternal?"
Answer: It is interesting that a much higher percentage of people believe in the existence of heaven than believe in the existence of hell. According to the Bible, though, hell is just as real as heaven. The Bible clearly and explicitly teaches that hell is a real place to which the wicked/unbelieving are sent after death. We have all sinned against God (Romans 3:23). The just punishment for that sin is death (Romans 6:23). Since all of our sin is ultimately against God (Psalm 51:4), and since God is an infinite and eternal Being, the punishment for sin, death, must also be infinite and eternal. Hell is this infinite and eternal death which we have earned because of our sin.

The punishment of the wicked dead in hell is described throughout Scripture as “eternal fire” (Matthew 25:41), “unquenchable fire” (Matthew 3:12), “shame and everlasting contempt” (Daniel 12:2), a place where “the fire is not quenched” (Mark 9:44-49), a place of “torment” and “fire” (Luke 16:23-24), “everlasting destruction” (2 Thessalonians 1:9), a place where “the smoke of torment rises forever and ever” (Revelation 14:10-11), and a “lake of burning sulfur” where the wicked are “tormented day and night forever and ever” (Revelation 20:10).

The punishment of the wicked in hell is as never ending as the bliss of the righteous in heaven. Jesus Himself indicates that punishment in hell is just as everlasting as life in heaven (Matthew 25:46). The wicked are forever subject to the fury and the wrath of God. Those in hell will acknowledge the perfect justice of God (Psalm 76:10). Those who are in hell will know that their punishment is just and that they alone are to blame (Deuteronomy 32:3-5). Yes, hell is real. Yes, hell is a place of torment and punishment that lasts forever and ever, with no end. Praise God that, through Jesus, we can escape this eternal fate (John 3:16, 18, 36).

Question: "Is hell literally a place of fire and brimstone?"
Answer: By raining down fire and brimstone upon the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, God not only demonstrated how He felt about overt sin, but He also launched an enduring metaphor. After the events of Genesis 19:24, the mere mention of fire, brimstone, Sodom or Gomorrah instantly transports a reader into the context of God’s judgment. Such an emotionally potent symbol, however, has trouble escaping its own gravity. This fiery image can impede, rather than advance, its purpose. A symbol should show a similarity between two dissimilar entities. Fire and brimstone describes some of what hell is like—but not all of what hell is.

The word the Bible uses to describe a burning hell—Gehenna—comes from an actual burning place, the valley of Gehenna adjacent to Jerusalem on the south. Gehenna is an English transliteration of the Greek form of an Aramaic word, which is derived from the Hebrew phrase “the Valley of (the son[s] of) Hinnom.” In one of their greatest apostasies, the Jews (especially under kings Ahaz and Manasseh) passed their children through the fires in sacrifice to the god Molech in that very valley (2 Kings 16:3; 2 Chronicles 33:6; Jeremiah 32:35). Eventually, the Jews considered that location to be ritually unclean (2 Kings 23:10), and they defiled it all the more by casting the bodies of criminals into its smoldering heaps. In Jesus’ time this was a place of constant fire, but more so, it was a refuse heap, the last stop for all items judged by men to be worthless. When Jesus spoke of Gehenna hell, He was speaking of the city dump of all eternity. Yes, fire was part of it, but the purposeful casting away—the separation and loss—was all of it.

In Mark 9:43 Jesus used another powerful image to illustrate the seriousness of hell. “If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.” For most readers, this image does escape its own gravity—in spite of the goriness! Few believe that Jesus wants us literally to cut off our own hand. He would rather that we do whatever is necessary to avoid going to hell, and that is the purpose of such language—to polarize, to set up an either/or dynamic, to compare. Since the first part of the passage uses imagery, the second part does also, and therefore should not be understood as an encyclopedic description of hell.

In addition to fire, the New Testament describes hell as a bottomless pit (abyss) (Revelation 20:3), a lake (Revelation 20:14), darkness (Matthew 25:30), death (Revelation 2:11), destruction (2 Thessalonians 1:9), everlasting torment (Revelation 20:10), a place of wailing and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 25:30), and a place of gradated punishment (Matthew 11:20-24; Luke 12:47-48; Revelation 20:12-13). The very variety of hell’s descriptors argues against applying a literal interpretation of any particular one. For instance, hell’s literal fire could emit no light, since hell would be literally dark. Its fire could not consume its literal fuel (persons!) since their torment is non-ending. Additionally, the gradation of punishments within hell also confounds literalness. Does hell’s fire burn Hitler more fiercely than an honest pagan? Does he fall more rapidly in the abyss than another? Is it darker for Hitler? Does he wail and gnash more loudly or more continually than the other? The variety and symbolic nature of descriptors do not lessen hell, however—just the opposite, in fact. Their combined effect describes a hell that is worse than death, darker than darkness, and deeper than any abyss. Hell is a place with more wailing and gnashing of teeth than any single descriptor could ever portray. Its symbolic descriptors bring us to a place beyond the limits of our language—to a place far worse than we could ever imagine.

Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON

That is not "one man's opinion", it is a quite thorough analysis of scripture--something Jesus said we should do. There are many others like it. If you are not going to at least read it and come to your own conclusions from it, I can't help you.

ziggy88 Loc: quincy illinois 62301

Pastor Gary Boyd.....In the old Greek hell was in the grave called hades. In fact the hell where you burn up and are gone forever has not been created yet. That will happen o the white Throne Judgement day after the 1,000 year millennium spent with our Lord here on earth. If you are written in the book of life you will be saved from hell fire, if not then you along with Satan and his minions will be cast into hell to burn. This is in Revelation 20: 11-15 if you care to read it. Satan and his demons will burn forever in the lake of fire, but humans will suffer the second death and will be burned up and destroyed forever. If you have anymore questions fire away.....Gary Boyd

Humans gone forever..

Liberty Tree

I read it, the Bible and the analysis of many and that is why I know it is false. You believe it because you want it to be that way.

Liberty Tree

[quote=mwdegutis]Simple questions...
Is there a hell?
Will I barbecue or will I simply have the eternal sleep that my
beliefs predicate anyway?

Simple answer...
There is a hell and if you end up there you will live forever in eternal separation from God in a place far worse than you could ever imagine.

Detailed answers...

gotQuestions.org
Question: "Is hell real? Is hell eternal?"
Answer: It is interesting that a much higher percentage of people believe in the existence of heaven than believe in the existence of hell. According to the Bible, though, hell is just as real as heaven. The Bible clearly and explicitly teaches that hell is a real place to which the wicked/unbelieving are sent after death. We have all sinned against God (Romans 3:23). The just punishment for that sin is death (Romans 6:23). Since all of our sin is ultimately against God (Psalm 51:4), and since God is an infinite and eternal Being, the punishment for sin, death, must also be infinite and eternal. Hell is this infinite and eternal death which we have earned because of our sin.

The punishment of the wicked dead in hell is described throughout Scripture as “eternal fire” (Matthew 25:41), “unquenchable fire” (Matthew 3:12), “shame and everlasting contempt” (Daniel 12:2), a place where “the fire is not quenched” (Mark 9:44-49), a place of “torment” and “fire” (Luke 16:23-24), “everlasting destruction” (2 Thessalonians 1:9), a place where “the smoke of torment rises forever and ever” (Revelation 14:10-11), and a “lake of burning sulfur” where the wicked are “tormented day and night forever and ever” (Revelation 20:10).

The punishment of the wicked in hell is as never ending as the bliss of the righteous in heaven. Jesus Himself indicates that punishment in hell is just as everlasting as life in heaven (Matthew 25:46). The wicked are forever subject to the fury and the wrath of God. Those in hell will acknowledge the perfect justice of God (Psalm 76:10). Those who are in hell will know that their punishment is just and that they alone are to blame (Deuteronomy 32:3-5). Yes, hell is real. Yes, hell is a place of torment and punishment that lasts forever and ever, with no end. Praise God that, through Jesus, we can escape this eternal fate (John 3:16, 18, 36).

Question: "Is hell literally a place of fire and brimstone?"
Answer: By raining down fire and brimstone upon the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, God not only demonstrated how He felt about overt sin, but He also launched an enduring metaphor. After the events of Genesis 19:24, the mere mention of fire, brimstone, Sodom or Gomorrah instantly transports a reader into the context of God’s judgment. Such an emotionally potent symbol, however, has trouble escaping its own gravity. This fiery image can impede, rather than advance, its purpose. A symbol should show a similarity between two dissimilar entities. Fire and brimstone describes some of what hell is like—but not all of what hell is.

The word the Bible uses to describe a burning hell—Gehenna—comes from an actual burning place, the valley of Gehenna adjacent to Jerusalem on the south. Gehenna is an English transliteration of the Greek form of an Aramaic word, which is derived from the Hebrew phrase “the Valley of (the son[s] of) Hinnom.” In one of their greatest apostasies, the Jews (especially under kings Ahaz and Manasseh) passed their children through the fires in sacrifice to the god Molech in that very valley (2 Kings 16:3; 2 Chronicles 33:6; Jeremiah 32:35). Eventually, the Jews considered that location to be ritually unclean (2 Kings 23:10), and they defiled it all the more by casting the bodies of criminals into its smoldering heaps. In Jesus’ time this was a place of constant fire, but more so, it was a refuse heap, the last stop for all items judged by men to be worthless. When Jesus spoke of Gehenna hell, He was speaking of the city dump of all eternity. Yes, fire was part of it, but the purposeful casting away—the separation and loss—was all of it.

In Mark 9:43 Jesus used another powerful image to illustrate the seriousness of hell. “If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.” For most readers, this image does escape its own gravity—in spite of the goriness! Few believe that Jesus wants us literally to cut off our own hand. He would rather that we do whatever is necessary to avoid going to hell, and that is the purpose of such language—to polarize, to set up an either/or dynamic, to compare. Since the first part of the passage uses imagery, the second part does also, and therefore should not be understood as an encyclopedic description of hell.

In addition to fire, the New Testament describes hell as a bottomless pit (abyss) (Revelation 20:3), a lake (Revelation 20:14), darkness (Matthew 25:30), death (Revelation 2:11), destruction (2 Thessalonians 1:9), everlasting torment (Revelation 20:10), a place of wailing and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 25:30), and a place of gradated punishment (Matthew 11:20-24; Luke 12:47-48; Revelation 20:12-13). The very variety of hell’s descriptors argues against applying a literal interpretation of any particular one. For instance, hell’s literal fire could emit no light, since hell would be literally dark. Its fire could not consume its literal fuel (persons!) since their torment is non-ending. Additionally, the gradation of punishments within hell also confounds literalness. Does hell’s fire burn Hitler more fiercely than an honest pagan? Does he fall more rapidly in the abyss than another? Is it darker for Hitler? Does he wail and gnash more loudly or more continually than the other? The variety and symbolic nature of descriptors do not lessen hell, however—just the opposite, in fact. Their combined effect describes a hell that is worse than death, darker than darkness, and deeper than any abyss. Hell is a place with more wailing and gnashing of teeth than any single descriptor could ever portray. Its symbolic descriptors bring us to a place beyond the limits of our language—to a place far worse than we could ever imagine.[/quote]

I would add that the reason Hell is eternal is that people will continue to sin in Hell. Look at the rich man in Luke 16. His attitude in torment was the same as it was on earth. He still wanted Lazarus to be his servant.

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

You claim no faith.... so why this interest in hell? What have you done to make you now fear your own death and the probability that you will go to such a place? Here is the key, you know what you did; go atone for it and never repeat the same act. Obey, as well as you are able the commandments and live an honest life.

But, I will tell you from my learning and from translations of Hebrew and Greek, the meaning of hell. When your spirit leaves your body, that body does go to hell..... as translated by some. Actually, that place in Hebrew is sheol and appears 31 times in the Old Testament. While the English word "hell" has connotations as a place of punishment for the condemned, sheol does not have such connotations. Sheol simply refers to the abode of the dead in general, not particularly the place of the punishment for the wicked. Likewise the Greek word, Hades translates into a place for the dead. Some Christians will bring up Gehenna.... which is a physical place in Israel, a garbage dump which was always on fire. The burning of trash was necessary to keep diseases that is carried by flies and carrion eaters; and as of today is a park. The notion of a burning in hell comes from Pagans (who ironically called themselves Christians, not to be confused with modern Christians) who had a place called Tartarus... a place of burning for the unbelievers. That word appears one time in the Bible, 2 Peter 2:4. Even there it is not a place where mortal man is put, but a place where fallen angels await judgment.

I will now tell you a shocker. Christians of today believe very much as the Pharisees of the time of Jesus. The Pharisees adopted from Greek Pagan belief that there were levels of hell and heaven. Josephus, a contemporary of Paul, the Pharisees were the only sect within Judaism that had a dogma of "hell." Josephus was born in Jerusalem in AD 37, a few years after the crucifixion of Jesus. As a young man Josephus studied the beliefs and teachings of the major Judaic sects: the Pharisees, the Sadducees and the Essenes. Here, according to the testimony of Josephus, is the most likely origin of "hell" in the Bible: "Their (the Pharisees') belief is that there is an undying power in souls and that, under the ground, there is an accounting to reward and punish those who were righteous or unrighteous in (this) life. Eternal punishment is offered to the latter, but re-creation in a new life to the former. Because of these ideas, they (the Pharisees) are the most persuasive among the citizens. And all the sacrifice and prayer offered to God happens to be according to their exegesis (of scripture)." In short, what they did was insert this notion into society as a control mechanism. Their dogma was not part of the teachings of the Torah, Bereishit, Shemot, Vayikra and was not a teaching of Jesus (because he taught nothing that was not already written. He taught the laws and the Tanakh in terms that could be understood by Jews of the time).

Where would the Pharisees get the notion of a lake of fire... after all it was not part of the teachings and to be sure, it was a novel management tool. For that, you need to understand that between the last book of the Old Testament and the New. There were a few hundred years of dead time, a time when there were no new words of G*d or prophets written. This time is important, because it was during this time that Alexander the Great invaded and conquered the Middle East. When he did, he made a law demanding that all of his newly acquired citizens adopt Greek principals. For those who do not want to take time to read about him, in a nutshell. Alexander III of Macedon, was a King of the Ancient Greek kingdom of Macedon and a member of the Argead dynasty, an ancient Greek royal house. And he was born 356 BC, Pella, Greece and died in Babylon. So when he conquered the land, his law made it a requirement to adopt Pagan Greek belief systems and this gave birth to Christians (not to be confused with modern day Christians). Within that pagan system, there was a belief of eternal hell. The combination of an "eternal hell" and an all-powerful G*d taken from Hebrews gave birth to a very unkind, horrible and murderous G*d, who was able to save anyone, but who for some unfathomable reason chose not to save billions of people, would ultimately transform religion into what we have today. But this was not the message of the Hebrew prophets, and the evidence of the Bible is that this was not the original belief taught by Jesus. Remember Jesus telling the parable of the rich man and Lazarus? He was ridiculing the belief of Hades and the special place the pagans set aside called Tartarus. Read Plato for details of Hades... and compare the scripture.

In the end, one has to decide to live as well as we can knowing that G*d is mercy, love, and our creator who knows who we are from before our birth. To live without fear. Or we can choose to live in fear, fear of a lake of fire where G*d shows no mercy or love. And in closing, Jesus draws from the Tanakh when he tells the Jew to love one another and forgive. Could he demand from moral man something that G*d would not do for all of us?

PeterS

I guess the question is, what is the definition of "wicked" then. Is it by our deeds in life or by the expressed faith in god we claim? The two are not the same yet if my understanding of the bible is correct it's only through the acceptance of Christ that I may have the privilege of Heaven. To me that seems a bit contradictory because much of Jesus's teachings was through his deeds to others. So that begs the question of why would we be asked to emulate Christs life if it is of no use in our attainment of heaven. If hell is our punishment--what is it our punishment for?

Liberty Tree

No one can enter heaven based on his or her own righteousness because we are all sinful. When one becomes a true Christian the righteousness of Jesus becomes our righteousness so we are acceptable in God's eyes. People are punished because they choose to remain as they are and think that there righteousness is enough to enter into the presence of a perfect holy God.

mwdegutis Loc: Illinois

To answer your questions…
The definition of being “wicked” is the fact that you are a sinner. Therefore, the first act to redemption is to admit you’re a sinner…Romans 3:23 For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard.

The second is to understand that as a sinner, you will die – Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord.

To put it in your words, to have “the privilege of Heaven,” you must believe that Jesus died on the cross and was raised from the dead to save you from sin and death – Romans 10:9-11; 13 If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved. As the Scriptures tell us, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be disgraced.”… For “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Then receive, in faith through Jesus, his FREE gift of salvation – Romans 5:1 Therefore, since we have been made right in God’s sight by faith, we have peace with God because of what Jesus Christ our Lord has done for us.

Lastly, repent by turning from your old life of sin to a new life in Jesus.

If you have truly meant this, as the scriptures say, “This means that anyone who belongs to Christ has become a new person. The old life is gone; a new life has begun!” And slowly but surely, you will start to emulate Christ’s life.

Trust me, it’s quite transforming and freeing.

Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON

You know it is false because you read it and would rather have it that way. OK. An inductive and reasoned study of Scripture says otherwise. One of the greatest mistakes is reading what you want the Bible to say rather than allowing the Bible to tell you what it says. The Bible is its own best teacher. "He who has ears, let him hear."

PeterS

My interest in hell comes from my latest discussion with Blade Runner in the "Israeli Soldier" thread as he's assured me there is no "fire" but he has never actually discussed what hell actually was. If I'm correct your Jewish belief contends there is no hell. Ironically that correlates with what I believe. I have also talked to other Christians who said they didn't believe there was a hell so I just want to establish upon what basis are we basing our beliefs?

After all, someone like Hitler certainly would merit going to hell but why would someone who is Jewish be rendered to the same place simply because they hadn't accepted Christ? So I think this would be a good discussion for theists as well as atheists because unless we are Christians there is the belief by many that we are going to be treated the same.

Now myself, I believe there is no hell because I think hell is nothing more than a construct used by those who wrote the bible to elitist a certain behavior from the population they were trying to control. It's the 'Elf on the Shelf' of its time so to speak but to cling to it today as an actual belief is what leave me scratching my head. I mean, does reason not come into play where someone cannot say a god who loves his people would never act in this way?

And I will read through the rest of your post and if there is something I think hasn't been covered I will reply otherwise I appreciate you effort in educating the ignorant.

And Seasons Greetings, Happy Hanukkah, Merry Christmas, Happy Solstice, or whatever might apply...