straightUp Loc: California

These girls need to think twice about their fantasies. The police will not be on their side and they are not federal agents either.

lindajoy Loc: right here with you....

Is it not true fantazies ( altho to dismiss their patriotism to such is uncalled for) leads to dreams which lead to goals which lead to success???

straightUp Loc: California

LOL - why yes, as a matter of fact. Fantasies often pave the way to success. So does betting against the odds. All I'm saying here is the odds are REALLY stacked up against them.

As for patriotism... What patriotism? I look at the picture and I see assholes. I don't see patriots.

If they really want to raid our cities to purge them of the people the cities have decided to protect then I don't see how anyone can call them patriots. They're just assholes and the minute they commit any organized act of violence against any group of civilians they technically become terrorists.

How exactly do you think they're going to pull this off anyway? What, are they going to break into homes and churches, cuff all the immigrants without papers and shoot the police if they interfere? Then what? ...drive them up to Vancouver and dump them?

Shit, I bet their thinking never got past how scary they will look in their camouflage.

cali

That's not a 4 leaf clover. Not a clover at all.

lindajoy Loc: right here with you....

Perhaps you are thinking of something else...?? Or just not one you are familiar with....??
It is a 4 leaf clover~~

Summary
Description
English: 4-leaf white clover (Trifolium repens)
Deutsch: Vierblättriges Kleeblatt
Español: Trébol de cuatro hojas
Français : Trèfle blanc à quatre feuilles

Clover or trefoil are common names for plants of the genus Trifolium consisting of about 300 ... The most widely cultivated clovers are white clover Trifolium repens and red clover Trifolium pratense...

lindajoy Loc: right here with you....

Odds are against them at least in this stage of whatever is going on and likely not going to be needed anyway... At least that is my hope...

Patriotism is viewed definitely by everyone ..We have all different opinions on how things should be done just as we debate in here... Are we all patriots looking for ways to better our country in the process?? And just because we differ on what is the right course are we less patriotic or patriots???

Your fourth and fifth paragraphs aren't worth replying to other than to say your sarcasm is noted and thinking out of the box may bring sufficient results ....

Docadhoc Loc: Elsewhere

There ya go. A good burr grinder and fresh beans. Can't beat it. If I stopped drinking coffee I'd probably age less.

Oh well......

lindajoy Loc: right here with you....

I don't know I've read studies that actually praise it in modetation..It does get rid of headaches for me ...

Had an auto accident while back, headache meds like you can't imagine.. Sick of them I was looking for alternatives..Anyway read where coffee helps and it did....😊

Fresh ground from the smell of grinding it to steaming hot water , Awww heck gotta go make some now...lolol

straightUp Loc: California

You should really be more careful what you hope for.


Many of us have different ideas on what a better country would even look like, so of course we differ on which course to take but unauthorized physical threats against people who live here is crossing a line. The threat isn't about voting to change the laws, linda... They are threatening and intimidating people with forceful and illegal raids. Now this is where ideas about patriotism might diverge.

A patriot is defined as someone who vigorously supports their country and is prepared to defend it against enemies or detractors. Many countries have experienced surges in militant patriotism that involve intimidation and threats of violence against certain groups of people living among them. The blackshirts and brownshirts from the fascist uprisings in the mid-20th century come to mind. ISIS being a more contemporary example and of course the ethnic cleansing we see throughout the more brutal regions of the world.

I'm a different type of patriot. I vigorously support and defend what I know to be true American values which are described in our founding documents as being inalienable. That means respecting the life and the liberty of EVERYONE because we are all created by God as equals. *IF* those fascist "patriots" push to the point where blood is spilled, I will be 100% willing to fight them in ANY capacity as an American patriot.


The fifth paragraph... you're probably right...
The fourth paragraph seems like a sensible question to ask. When you show support for a group of unauthorized "patriots" threatening raids on a major city, do you think about how they would actually do it? Or is your support purely symbolic?

Loki Loc: Georgia

Personally, I think this bunch is laughable. However, your answer is somewhat revealing.


"I'm a different type of patriot. I vigorously support and defend what I know to be true American values which are described in our founding documents as being inalienable. That means respecting the life and the liberty of EVERYONE because we are all created by God as equals. *IF* those fascist "patriots" push to the point where blood is spilled, I will be 100% willing to fight them in ANY capacity as an American patriot."

You should have been a defense attorney; with your willingness to defend criminals. "Respecting the life and liberty of EVERYONE because we are all created by God as equals." Yeppers, criminals are certainly entitled to having their "life and liberty" respected. Especially when it is at the expense of US citizens. You cannot seem to comprehend that sneaking into this country is a serious misdemeanor at best, and if you do it after having been deported, or commit any other crimes while you are here it is a felony. While this "militia" is laughable, it is interesting to read that you are more concerned about the rights of illegal foreigners than of US citizens. You have already stated you think they should be allowed to vote. So do I. Just as soon as US citizens are allowed to vote in Mexican elections. I see you have bought into the "otherwise law-abiding" bullshit. It never seems to occur to people who think like you that by simply being here, illegals commit a crime every second. If they are employed, they commit another. "True American virtues" includes abiding by the laws of the land that have been passed by your elected representatives.

Loki Loc: Georgia

Almost forgot......

"Many countries have experienced surges in militant patriotism that involve intimidation and threats of violence against certain groups of people living among them." Especially the ones who have no right to be here and live among us?

Docadhoc Loc: Elsewhere

Caffeine helps in some migraines. I have a colleague who suffers chronic migraine and has to have a cup of coffee every so.often during the day to.keep them at bay.

The smell of fresh ground coffee and bacon......mmmm.

straightUp Loc: California

Some criminals are worthy of respect, such as the thousands of women incarcerated every year for defending themselves against domestic violence, or the people that had to jump the fence to save their children and/or find work so they can provide for their families. You know by now how I feel about the discriminatory laws. I recognize them but I don't respect them anymore than the Son's of Liberty respected the Stamp Act. So you can call them criminals all you want. 'Doesn't mean shit to me. I'd still kill an American citizen to save the life of an illegal immigrant, because I judge a person by his actions. Birthright means nothing to me.


Being a U.S. citizen means only three things...

1. I can vote
2. I can't be sued by a non-citizen
3. I qualify to serve in a jury

That's it. There ain't nothing else. Being citizens doesn't make me better, or any more worthy of respect.


I comprehend the laws perfectly well. YOU just can't seem to comprehend how I can dispute the moral value of racist laws.


What's interesting is how you make that assumption. I never gave any indication that I am more concerned about the rights of one demographic over another. If it was the illegal immigrants brandishing weapons and threatening raids on citizens I would be defending the citizens, but that's not the story in this thread. Once again, I judge a person by what they do, not by their privilege.


If they contribute to the system, they should be able to vote. I'm not concerned about voting rights in Mexico.


It ain't bullshit.


You just don't get it. The crime of being here without proper authority is not a violent crime... it is not a heinous crime... in fact it is often morally permissible. Like stealing a loaf of bread to feed a starving child, or saving a Jew from the Nazis. I KNOW it's illegal to steal bread, even if a child is starving. I KNOW harboring Jews in Nazis Germany was a crime. Heck, Jesus Himself was crucified for "crimes".

It just seems like you don't get how anyone can question authority. That just amazes me that anyone can be such a sheep.


That's not American virtue, Loki... That's just compliance. American virtue doesn't answer to rules just because some politician passed it. In fact, it's the other way around... American virtue is what the rules need to comply with and if they don't then it's the solemn duty of the American citizen to use due process to kill the law. Fortunately, we have something called the Bill of Rights that does a lot of the legwork for us. Ever hear a judge overrule a law because it's unconstitutional? Yeah... THAT's American virtue shitting on a law.

straightUp Loc: California

Isn't that what militant patriots say about ANY group they decide to persecute? It's what the Nazis said about the Jews... It's what ISIS says about infidels...

Loki Loc: Georgia

"Some criminals are worthy of respect, such as the thousands of women incarcerated every year for defending themselves against domestic violence, or the people that had to jump the fence to save their children and/or find work so they can provide for their families. You know by now how I feel about the discriminatory laws. I recognize them but I don't respect them anymore than the Son's of Liberty respected the Stamp Act. So you can call them criminals all you want. 'Doesn't mean shit to me. I'd still kill an American citizen to save the life of an illegal immigrant, because I judge a person by his actions. Birthright means nothing to me."
This one is hardly worth a comment.

********

Being a U.S. citizen means only three things...

1. I can vote
2. I can't be sued by a non-citizen
3. I qualify to serve in a jury

That's it. There ain't nothing else. Being citizens doesn't make me better, or any more worthy of respect

It means considerably more than that, but you wouldn't understand. I totally agree with your assertion that being a citizen does not make you worthy of respect. Especially in your case.