cesspool jones Loc: atlanta

Quite possibly, walking on eggshells seems to be in the air now. That's not gunna work. Alls these people have is time. I'm sure you good friends with these Muslim folk you work with. I laid carpet 20 years ago with 2 Muslims...good people. Hear izza questions for you....there's a gumball machine with 5000 gumballs in it. 10 % are pure poison. Would you eat a handful without checking first? That's why we need to be on top of our game...extreme vetting! You can't see that?????????

Loki Loc: Georgia

So far, you have offered 2 instances of a miscount, Scotland, England and the UK being one, and Russia being the other. As far as the others, you have offered one instance; a "for example" of an unknown but suspected Muslim terrorist. The vast majority are committed by Muslims, whether it is 61 countries or only 59. Most of your "war torn countries" are that way because of Muslims.

straightUp Loc: California

Steve... they *ALL* do that. Have you never heard a Jew talk about how "their people" have always been persecuted? I have. Lots of times. And ya know... I hear it from various Christians too... the most persecuted religion on the Levant.


I was raised on the King James Bible, where you? Are you going to tell me there's only one version of the Bible? Are you going to tell me that Christians think God held a press conference and there were a group of prophets taking notes leading to the different versions of the Bible that we have? Or is it more like each church thinks the version they use is the best interpretation?

Really, Steve... I just don't see your point.


For the same reason the English had a civil war between the Anglicans and the Calvinists, or why the disputes between the Roman Catholics and Protestants in Ireland created a terrorist movement. Or sometimes, I'm sure it's a matter of national conflict and the belligerent countries happen to have different cultures... someone bent on blaming religion for everything could easily point out the religious conflicts... WW2... or "the German Lutherans vs the British Anglicans"... Cold War... or "the American Protestant vs the Russian Orthodox" Mexican-American War... Protestants vs Catholics.

You get the idea...


No, the Koran DOES have context and it's well known how difficult that is to translate. It's not just semantics, it's deep in the culture. I do NOT claim to understand the context as I don't speak any of the Semitic languages. But I've listened to real live Muslims talk about this with me and I am pretty confident there is context. The fact that you think there is no context only serves to confirm that you do not understand it any more than I do and your self-stated authority on the matter which you place on this "lack of context" rings hollow.

Just think about this for a second... Who am I going to believe? This well-educated and very impressive engineer that I work with every day, who is respectful, helps me out, brings me food his wife cooks, laughs at my jokes, talks about his kids and happens to be Muslim or this anonymous entity on a political website that rants and rants about how Muslims want to kill us all?

[quote=Steve700]
What you don't understand is that when the Koran or Muslims talk about "[u]'When the unbelievers cease hostilities', you have to realize that Islamic ideology is demonically designed and what that really means is "When the unbelievers cease resisting being subjugated". I think that will become more clear to you as you read on here.

I have had four different Korans in front of me at one time and looked up that very same verse 8:39. I can tell you they were worded differently in each Koran, but the meaning was the same. Some say "Until there is no more dissent", some said "Until there is no more disagreement", some say "until there is no more challenge", some say "until there is no more opposition", and the most soft peddled and deceitful interpretations say oppression to give the impression that the poor Muslims are being victimized. What you don't understand is that in Islamic theology your mere existence is a threat to them and Islam. That's the way a jihadist understands it and believe me, they can clean the clock of any moderate Muslim in a debate.
[/quote]
Well, my Muslim friends are probably what you would call moderate Muslims. I generally avoid the company of extremists in any religion and I certainly do not defend their actions. But let me make a point here. My issue with the way you and that Trump asshole view Muslims is that you put them all in the same bag. It's like sending ALL the black people to jail because *some* of them are bad. Here you are trying to tell me how fragmented Islam is and yet you refuse to acknowledge any difference between them in your persecution. My friends at work are not here to fucking kill anyone.


It seems it's always the fanatics that pour over scriptures, welding iron clad interpretations to justify shit that was never intended. The fact that you spend time, cross-checking passages between four versions of the Koran laid out in front of you in an obvious attempt to find evil in the meaning is actually a bit creepy.

[quote=Steve700]
Here are those two versus exactly the way they are worded including parentheses in my Koran which I got from Muslims who had a table set up where they were passing out Koran's and other Islamic literature:
8:38 Say to the disbelievers, if they stop themselves (from disbelief), their past (actions) would be forgiven them; But if they continue, the punishment of those before them is already (before them as a warning) how can you interpret that as anything other than if you don't submit you will be slaughtered
You seem to think this is all about the disbelievers not believing in Islam. Maybe it's the context you were never able to find, but this is about the disbelievers not allowing anyone else to believe in Islam. Big difference. In the ancient world religions were political forces to be reckoned with and emerging religions were always attacked. Look at how the Romans reacted to Jews from Nazareth. 8:39 was Islam telling them to keep their faith and defend themselves if necessary.

[quote=Steve700]
8:39 And keep fighting them till there is no more unrest (commotion)or injustice. [color=red] You notice they are using the word commotion, which is what you have when people are refusing to submit to Islam's superior authority.
[/quote]
Commotion is also what you have when people continue to persecute and attack.


Billions of Muslims disagree with you.


I think what's clear is that you committed the wrong translation to memory and it fucked you up. No wonder your so confused.


Yeah... you did tell me that before... and it was just as much bullshit then as it is now.


LOL... yeah NEVER get information about a religion from the people who follow it. I guess it's a good thing I don't go to church anymore.


Oh, an ex-terrorist... yeah, because people that are willing to kill innocent people for religious reasons couldn't possibly be insane.


It seems to me that you're the one that doesn't actually get that.


Yes, I have considered it at length and I have concluded that they don't.

Loki Loc: Georgia

Nice of you to make up their minds for them.

straightUp Loc: California

Some people just aren't very good at word problems... It's simple math Loki. Those 2 instances involve more than 2 entries on the list.

England and Scotland are both part of the same country known as the UK - so instead of 3 you have 1
Chechnya, Ingushetia and Dagestan are all parts of Russia - so instead of 4 you have 1

4 + 3 = 7
7 - 2 = 5
61 - 5 = 56


No, you forgot these...

the Palestinian Authority is NOT a country - so instead of 1 you have 0
Somali is not a country, it's what you can people FROM Somalia, which was also listed - so instead of 2 you have 1

1 + 2 = 3
3 - 1 = 2
56 - 2 = 54

So there are 54 countries on the list, not 61 or 59.


Or, 54... And yes, of course the vast majority are committed by Muslims. It's a list of Muslim (and assumed Muslim) attacks.

That's a stupid thing to say.

Loki Loc: Georgia

Considering the recipient, it's an appropriate thing to say.

straightUp Loc: California

I didn't.
They make up their own minds.
I only make conclusions for my own.

Loki Loc: Georgia

All correct, of course.

cesspool jones Loc: atlanta

So your are saying you would invite 10 Muslims in your house with no background check. Would you also be unarmed while wearing a piece pink dress? Would you also wipe their asses?

Hemiman Loc: Communist California

Of course he has to prove he is worthy.

Steve700

Your post is not worthy of a reply from me. I could crush every statement you made into nothingness like I did in the previous posts on this subject. Although you don't realize this is true, you lack the ability to think clearly and don't even realize that there was something for you to learn and you've lost the debate. I have spoken very clearly and accurately giving the best short concise and accurate explanation of Islam you're ever going to see anywhere and you just dismiss it all and continue to go on with your Bull Shit about what your Islamic friends tell you after I've explained to you that getting your information about Islam is tantamount to a Jew getting his information about Nazi is him from a Nazi. It is a dictate in the Koran for Muslims to not make friends with you or take you as their protector. Because a Muslim is not devout, doesn't understand is own religion and does what it says not to do and doesn't do the violent things it says to do does not make Islam okay. I've told you Islam is what the authoritative Scriptures and the Islamic scholars say it is. Not what a moderate Muslim who doesn't know shit about his own religion thinks, wants or believes it to be.

I have told you that Islam is a dualistic religion that has the violent followers (adherence) and the moderate Muslims who insist Islam is a religion of peace and that's a violent ones are not real Muslims and do not represent them. The Koran itself actually consists of two Koran's the Meccan Koran which is's's from Mohammed's early life and is religious and peaceful and then there is Medinan Koran from the second half of Mohammed's life and it is violent, political and is all about subjugation, war and conquest. And what I told you about that the Koran having no context is absolutely true -- the early stuff (the Meccan Koran} is in the second half of the Koran and the latter change of nature to where it became violent in the religion (Medinan Koran) is in the front making it appear like the more harmonious passages come last and therefore probably represent the real Islam. The whole damn religion is diabolically deceptive. ------ in his early career people finally got fed up with peaceful Mohammed and drove him out of Mecca under threat of losing his life. He got really passed off about that and started residing in Medina while gaining a big following robbing caravans, stealing all the goods, tearing the caravans to shreds and killing everyone that was not fit enough for the women good-looking enough to put into slavery. After a while he had gained an army of 10,000 men and at that point went back to Mecca and physically took over the religion of Saudi Arabia where they were worshiping 360 God's. He enforced worship of Allah telling the people you shall worship Allah the moon god alone for you have been deceived and there are no others. Most American Muslims do not know most of what I have just told you. I debate and teach them their own religion every weekend in an outside open air debate forum. Mohammed is thought to be the perfect man in Islam. (Islam came from a violent tribal bedwin culture) Most Muslims believe their own Bull Shit they tell you, because they are not told what a monster Mohammed became, but believe me the terrorists know and they are totally happy with it and follow his example.

You are an idiot and I am done wasting my time with the self-deluded willfully blind who have been cursed with an immunity to education and defiant opposition disorder. You liberals are constantly proving your lack of maturity, understanding of reality, and desire to make your own truth as well as the depth to which liberalism is a mental disorder. Go screw yourself you Marxist programmed ass backward big dummy from opposite land. I'll bet you don't even recognize the Marxist propaganda that has been molding and programming your mind as Marxist propaganda when you see it.