pafret Loc: Northeast

Basic English is fine except that it does not cover the ground. See this wikipedia link for a descriptionof the pertinent laws.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia_Acts_of_1792

In the first militia act of 1792 the authority of the President to call out the states militias was established. In the second militia act of 1792 the militia itself was defined as the people and specifically that portion of the people who were able bodied citizen males between the ages 18 and 45, later raised to 54. The "regulation" of that militia is defined as "The militias were divided into "divisions, brigades, regiments, battalions, and companies" as the state legislatures would direct."

There was no need to join such a militia, you were a conscript and under law had to obtain weapons and equipage. Note that there is no restriction on anyone else owning and bearing arms and given the dangerous circumstances of that era and the quasi hunter gatherer society they had such ownership was totally expected and accepted. The support for this interpretation is found in the writings of many of the founding fathers, the actual militia laws are available on the internet, but the Wiki article sums it nicely.

As a last though, you must also remember that the rebels used their weapons to throw off the shackles of oppressive government and this is the prime reason for second amendment gun rights today. An armed insurrection has a snowballs chance in hell of succeeding today but there are other dangers from which we have a right to protect ourselves. As in the Bundy confrontation with the BLM. And, the likelihood is that our government will probably collapse and be unable to function because of lack of assets. At which point its every man for himself and the one with the gun wins.

JFlorio Loc: Seminole Florida

What's your idea of sanity? Anything you propose will not effect criminals. I have an AR-15, SKS, AK-47 , 12 gauge shotgun and a couple others All nice and cozy in a six foot gun safe. What business is that of yours?

kenjay Loc: Arkansas

Get a brain and do not say things you could not defend. The second addmendment gives me the right to own any weapons that the government possess. It was not about hunting or target practice it is about tyranny. What you call common sense I call an infringement. You need to quit being a socialist mouth piece little girl.

JFlorio Loc: Seminole Florida

Don't you just love their holier than thou elitest attitude? What will we ever do without their help?

kenjay Loc: Arkansas

The second says shall not be infringed upon. Do you need that defined for you also little girl?

kenjay Loc: Arkansas

Your muddled headed wrong it the individual right to possess arms.

Loki Loc: Georgia

I find several things amiss in your posting. First and foremost, you seem to have no idea what the term "militia" means, nor are you aware of the definition of "well-regulated" as it obtained in the 18th Century.

Let us first address the question of "well-regulated."

http://www.constitution.org/cons/wellregu.htm


The meaning of the phrase "well-regulated" in the 2nd amendment

From: Brian T. Halonen <halonen@csd.uwm.edu>

The following are taken from the Oxford English Dictionary, and bracket in time the writing of the 2nd amendment:

1709: "If a liberal Education has formed in us well-regulated Appetites and worthy Inclinations."


1714: "The practice of all well-regulated courts of justice in the world."

1812: "The equation of time ... is the adjustment of the difference of time as shown by a well-regulated clock and a true sun dial."

1848: "A remissness for which I am sure every well-regulated person will blame the Mayor."

1862: "It appeared to her well-regulated mind, like a clandestine proceeding."

1894: "The newspaper, a never wanting adjunct to every well-regulated American embryo city."

The phrase "well-regulated" was in common use long before 1789, and remained so for a century thereafter. It referred to the property of something being in proper working order. Something that was well-regulated was calibrated correctly, functioning as expected. Establishing government oversight of the people's arms was not only not the intent in using the phrase in the 2nd amendment, it was precisely to render the government powerless to do so that the founders wrote it.


Now, as for militia: According to 10 USC 311; it refers to all males who are citizens or have declared an intention to become citizens of the US between the ages of 17 and 45. This is the unorganized militia. Actually, militia membership is obligatory for the people mentioned in this statute, and voluntary, if you will for males over the age of 45.

Historically, members of the militia are required to keep their weapons in their homes and in good working order. I would also refer you to the ninth and tenth amendments of the Bill of Rights. Our government has only the powers granted to it by the people. I have included comments of the Founders and Framers of our Constitution, and there is no doubt whatsoever that they intended the Second to be an individual right.


"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
- Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

"What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787

"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
- Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

"The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824
"On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823


[i]"To disarm the people...s the most effectual way to enslave them."
- George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788

"I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers."
- George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops."
- Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

"Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of."
- James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788
"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country."
- James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434, June 8, 1789

"...the ultimate authority, wherever the derivative may be found, resides in the people alone..."
- James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788

“A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms… "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
- Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined.... The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun."
- Patrick Henry, Speech to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 5, 1778

"This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty.... The right of self defense is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction."
- St. George Tucker, Blackstone's Commentaries on the Laws of England, 1803

"As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms."
- Tench Coxe, Philadelphia Federal Gazette, June 18, 1789

There is no doubt as to the intent of the Founders. The Second Amendment confirms an individual right. You spoke of the First Amendment. The Second is there to protect it and all the others, just as the Ninth and Tenth are to prevent government overstepping it's bounds.

You will notice that the Amendment does not refer to "muskets," but to "arms." Nor is militia training or membership a prerequisite for possession of those arms, especially not government sanctioned training.

It's late, more later.

kenjay Loc: Arkansas

No I see you as an idiot trying to twist and pervert and shape it in away that is wrong. I don't like liars and your first one was that you do not take away guns the second was that you are not for Hillary. Go peddle your lies and bullshit somewhere else.

kenjay Loc: Arkansas

Well negroid come get them.

kenjay Loc: Arkansas

Enforce the laws on the books then read a little history.

Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON

This twitter exchange took place between CNN's Piers Morgan and Carol Roth, author and business strategist.

Piers Morgan@piersmorgan
The 2nd amendment was devised with muskets in mind, not high-powered
handguns and assault rifles. Fact.

Carol Roth@caroljroth
@peirsmorgan It was devised 4 people 2 B able 2 protect themselves w the same
type of weaponry used by those from whom they might need protection.

Piers Morgan@piersmorgan
@caroljroth Where exactly does it say that in the Constitution? Must have missed it.

Carol Roth@caroljroth
@piersmorgan Right next to the word "musket."

PeterS

Because conservatives live in terror. Why do you think they need so many guns in the first place. There is nothing that overrides their fear of the world around them, nothing. If it's not Muslims it's Liberals and if it's not Liberals than it's Liberals evil government that is trying to do them in. And if that isn't enough, there are the Mexicans and the Blacks--that brings about an entire new level of fear. When talking with conservatives sanity isn't something you will run across very often, especially when it comes to something like the second amendment. Their reverence for this one piece of text is only supplanted by the holy bible and even there I bet it is more a coin flip than anything else...

kenjay Loc: Arkansas

Not this conservative Petersucker and liberalism is a mental defect.

PeterS

Gosh how funny. So why does one need to protect one's self with a like weapon? If an attacker used a hand grenade the only response would be with another grenade? I would think a well placed shot between the eyes would be much more efficient and a whole lot less messy.

PeterS

Whether liberalism is a mental defect or not, conservatives are scared sh#tless by the world around them. That's why you can't have enough guns or a military that's big enough to protect you. You live in a world where anyone and everyone is out to get you and your paranoia of people knows absolutely no bounds. Now who has the mental defect--if you weren't so defective you might be able to tell...