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Oct 12, 2016 09:22:25   #
Morgan
 
PeterS wrote:
Yes, but the logic is that if you support a persons right to control their bodies and they make a decision that is unexceptionable then you are the one who enabled that decision to be made. So what's the solution--government control of a woman's body? What about men? Perhaps the reversible vasectomy needs to be perfected. Clip them when they are 12 and reverse it when they are 21. We could also put plan B in every 7/11 and convenience store out there. There are ways to get abortions down, I just don't think conservatives would like them...
Yes, but the logic is that if you support a person... (show quote)


The fanatical conservative who believes in the moment of conception and other ridiculous beliefs are a minority doing a lot of loud squawking and aren't worth the time and energy to even converse with, they're a brick wall, beyond logic of the prevention of abortions.

Are their obstinate beliefs any different from a Muslim father who believes he is in the "right" to assists with the removal his own daughters clitoris(FGM). In order that she doesn't behave in a promiscuous behavior, which may be as little as harmless flirting.

The point here is on when peoples beliefs are so strong they override the rights of individuals.

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Oct 12, 2016 09:33:23   #
Morgan
 
alabuck wrote:
Numbers 5:11-31. NIV
The Adultey Test
"11Then the Lord said to Moses, 12“Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him 13so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), 14and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— 15then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephahc of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing.

16“ ‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. 17Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. 20But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a cursed among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”

“ ‘Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.”

23“ ‘The priest is to write these curses on a scroll and then wash them off into the bitter water. 24He shall make the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and this water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering will enter her. 25The priest is to take from her hands the grain offering for jealousy, wave it before the Lord and bring it to the altar. 26The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memoriale offering and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water. 27If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse. 28If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children.

29“ ‘This, then, is the law of jealousy when a woman goes astray and makes herself impure while married to her husband, 30or when feelings of jealousy come over a man because he suspects his wife. The priest is to have her stand before the Lord and is to apply this entire law to her. 31The husband will be innocent of any wrongdoing, but the woman will bear the consequences of her sin.’ ”
Numbers 5:11-31. NIV br The Adultey Test br "... (show quote)




In this society it seems the woman is always at the losing end. Where's the part where ...when he goes astray?

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Oct 12, 2016 09:35:14   #
Morgan
 
alabuck wrote:
Under which political party has the US economy faired better, Democratic or Republican?

For you GOPTP economic know-it-alls, according to several economic publications, the US ecomony has fared better Democratic administrations, going back to the Great Depression.

Mr Shako, perhaps you should be the one studying US History, instead of Kevyn. These web sites (which took a total of 10 minutes to research and find using Google) are made-up of non-partisian and even right-leaning organizations. All are thought to be well versed in the field of economics, both domestic and foreign. I challenge anyone to take the time and read the posts and, the , still believe that the GOPTP is the better party to control the economy; unless, of course, you're already one of the top 10% of earners. Then, the GOPTP is, definitely, the party for you!

As proof, I offer you to visit the following 10 web sites. Check them out for yourselves. Learn that, in spite of all the GOPTP propaganda we've been subjected to for the last 40-50 years, the GOPTP IS NOT the savior of the US, or even the world economy.

http://www.jec.senate.gov/public/_cache/files/aa8a57a8-ac12-45c8-8f72-b3261c4c798a/jec-fact-sheet---the-economy-under-democratic-vs.-republican-presidents.pdf

http://withoutbullshit.com/blog/whos-better-for-the-economy-democrats-or-republicans

http://www.forbes.com/sites/adamhartung/2012/10/10/want-a-better-economy-history-says-vote-democrat/#2b9fcfaf67a1

http://politicsthatwork.com/blog/which-party-is-better-for-the-economy.php

http://www.princeton.edu/~mwatson/papers/DemRep_BlinderWatson_July2015.pdf

http://www.barrons.com/articles/does-u-s-economy-really-do-far-better-under-democratic-presidents-1463197686

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/lucky-or-not-the-economy-does-better-under-democrats-2015-10-27

http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2012/09/04/history-shows-markets-gdp-outperform-under-democrats.html

http://www.nasdaq.com/article/dollar-us-economy-stocks-they-all-do-better-under-democrats-cm629447

http://www.businessinsider.com/democrat-vs-republican-stock-market-returns-2015-12
Under which political party has the US economy fai... (show quote)





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Oct 12, 2016 09:46:02   #
Morgan
 
bilordinary wrote:
One forgets the slowness of our huge economic system to react.
The gains you perceive to be the result of democratic action is just a republican wave they were lucky enough to ride down!
Then hand over a mess to a republican president. Just remember the president is only 1/3 of the gov.
The democrats have been control 2/3rds of the time since 1935. If they were so damned good we would not be in the process
of a communistic takeover, but from what we've heard from you, you probably favor this.
If not, wake up.
One forgets the slowness of our huge economic syst... (show quote)




"Then hand over a mess to a republican president."

What a complete twist of facts...

You mean like when the mess was handed over to Roosevelt from a republican president(Hoover), or the Big mess handed over to Clinton from a republican president(Bush) and finally when Obama got the mess after a republican president(another Bush). Now who's cleaning up the messes?

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Oct 12, 2016 09:59:41   #
Morgan
 
Old Man wrote:
So, Morgan, if a person "chooses" to kill a baby in a carriage in front of you, then that's okay with you? That baby in the womb is completely innocent and completely helpless, just like the baby in the carriage!!!
I know all your objections and false innuendo about it's not a baby until it breathes, etc, etc!!! Regardless of the propaganda, IT IS A BABY WHOSE LIFE IS SNUFFED OUT FOR NO FAULT OF ITS OWN!
Now, you do realize that if a woman gives birth to a baby, THEN decides she doesn't want it and she kills it, abandons it to die, or any other way cause its death, SHE AND/OR HER ACCOMPLICE, OR BOTH, ARE GUILTY OF MURDER UNDER OUR CURRENT LAWS!!! ALSO, IF SOMEONE MURDERS A PREGNANT WOMAN, UNDER OUR CURRENT LAWS, THAT PERSON IS CHARGED WITH THE MURDER OF TWO!!! I believe it was you, Morgan, who told me "laws do not stop actions, only punishes"! If I quoted you wrong, I apologize!!!
Do you realize, Morgan, that the ONLY rationale for killing a baby in the womb (other than to save the mother) IS THE MOTHER DOES NOT WANT IT!!! And, Morgan, do you realize that your rights stop at the NOSE OF ANOTHER PERSON!!!
IS THERE ANY RATIONALE IN YOUR HEART, Morgan, FOR YOU, OR ANY ONE ELSE, TO HAVE A RIGHT TO MURDER AN INNOCENT, HELPLESS HUMAN BEING JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE IN A STAGE OF LIFE THAT FINDS THEM HELPLESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Democrats, Morgan, are heartless about many things as long as it furthers their causes to gain the power to transform our country into a socialist, communistic way of life!!! TO ALL YOU OTHERS OUT THERE WHO HAVE BEEN SUCCESSFULLY PROPAGANDIZED INTO VARIOUS FALSE INTERPRETATIONS OF MANY TRUTHS, VALUES, AND MORALS, I BEG YOU TO GIVE TRUTH ANOTHER LOOK, GIVE LOGIC ANOTHER TRY, GIVE YOUR HEART AT LEAST A CHANCE TO CONFIRM TO YOUR BRAIN THAT GOOD IS BETTER THAN EVIL!!

CAN YOU NOT SEE THAT EVIL BECOMES UNIVERSALLY ADOPTED AND IS ANATHEMA TO THE DEEPLY INGRAINED GOOD ELEMENTS OF HUMAN BAHAVIOR!!! THE DEMOCRAT PARTY WILL STOP AT NOTHING BUT FORCE AND DEFEAT OF THEIR QUEST FOR POWER !!! THEY WREAK OF EVIL IN ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING THEY DO!!!!
IN THE NAME OF EVERYTHING THAT IS GOOD, PLEASE OPEN YOUR MINDS AND HEARTS TO LOOK AT A BABY AND ENJOY THEIR BEAUTY AND INNOCENCE!!! DON'T
LET EVIL MURDER THEM!!!!
So, Morgan, if a person "chooses" to kil... (show quote)




You simply cannot accept a persons right to THEIR OWN BODY, that's your problem not mine.

PROPAGANDA IS ONLY USED BY THOSE WHO SEEK TO CONTROL OTHERS; AND, TO ATTAIN GOALS OF THE PROPAGANDIST!!!!
This is your bed you lay in, as you are trying to control the actions of the woman. If a woman decides to do it is between her and her God and faith alone. Isn't it true that God has given us freedom of choice? You are correct. We should focus on all the ways to give a woman other choices to prevent an abortion.

If you're a person of faith you should believe that the baby goes to a better place and it was not it's time to enter this physical earthly world.

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Oct 12, 2016 10:12:46   #
vernon
 
Morgan wrote:
This is where some confusion lies, I do not support abortion, I support the right of the individual to make that choice for themselves. That's it , no more no less. If someone chooses to have an abortion it has absolutely nothing to do with me or anyone else... except the partner involved also.


I agree but I don't want my tax dollars going to perform the operation.

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Oct 12, 2016 16:06:02   #
alabuck Loc: Tennessee
 
Another point I'd l ike to make is: given the anti-abortion rhetoric, if the woman is forced to birth an unwanted child, where are all the people who are willing to spend the time, effort and money to raise the child into adulthood? I see a LOT of anti-abortionists squawking about murdering the unborn, yet they also are the ones squawking about all of the poor and underprivileged costing them their tax dollars. Apparently, they're all in favor of birthing the kids but are willing to let them either starve to death or die of disease or being shot, while living in the squalor.

Additionally, while above, I described life in the worst of circumstances, abortion for the more affluent is more easily obtained as the more affluent has more opportunities to solicit one. I knew a girl in college that became pregnant via 'date-rape.' The state we lived in didn't allow for abortions under any circumstances. She went to New York and got an abortion. She was a fortunate one. How many other women don't have an opportunity or the circumstances to afford an abortion? Im sure that if Roe vs Wade is overturned, we'll see more women dying of botched abortions from unscrupulous people with no medical training whatsoever.

Ya know, when the Jews were told by God to count themselves, children under the age of 7 weren't counted. Nor was a baby considered born until its head cleared the birth canal. Until then, it was simply a part of the mother's body. Not a live person.

Personally, I'm not in favor of abortion as a method of birth control. However, not being a woman, I'm not going to force my beliefs on any woman. Any decision she may make, concerning her carrying a child to birth or not, is strictly between her, her conscious and God. I cannot judge her.

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Oct 12, 2016 16:13:17   #
alabuck Loc: Tennessee
 
vernon wrote:
I agree but I don't want my tax dollars going to perform the operation.


You seem to think you're the only one who pays taxes. I'm sure many, who disagree with you, pay taxes, too.

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Oct 12, 2016 19:17:57   #
working class stiff Loc: N. Carolina
 
alabuck wrote:
You seem to think you're the only one who pays taxes. I'm sure many, who disagree with you, pay taxes, too.


It's been a while, alabuck. Welcome back.


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