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Is Mankind born inherently Good or Evil?m
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Feb 26, 2024 23:16:32   #
keepuphope Loc: Idaho
 
microphor wrote:
I'm so sorry I just was so mad to see that he turned your statement into something that was an absolutele lie. I knew that from past postings but it just went right out of my head.


No worries, just letting you get to know me better šŸ˜‰

Reply
Feb 26, 2024 23:40:17   #
microphor Loc: Home is TN
 
TJKMO wrote:
Calm down.
Take DEEP BREATHS.

I am told your HISSY FIT WILL PASS.


If I wanted advice from a hater and a liar I know where to find you, but I don't
.

Reply
Feb 26, 2024 23:45:31   #
Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
 
TJKMO wrote:
It is spelled NAUSEUM.

If you keep repeating that lie, at least spell it correctly.
You have a remarkable way of displaying your ignorance, TJ.
You deflected from substance to commit an ad hominem, and getting even that wrong.
You chastise me for misspelling a word believing you have refuted the meat of my post.

Ad Nauseam / *Ad Nauseum

"Nausea" is the Latin word for feeling sick or queasy (Greek is "nausia")

Ad nauseam is an adverb meaning ā€œto a sickening degree.ā€
All they needed to do is add an "m" to the word "nausea".

English, Etymology, Latin, Noun
Argumentum ad Nauseam
The false proof of a statement by prolonged repetition.

Argumentum ad Nauseam is usually not used literally to refer to sickness or nausea but instead means that something is going on and on, or being repeated over and over, until it becomes annoying or boring (until youā€™re sick of it). Though people often misspell it ā€œad nauseum,ā€ the only correct spelling is AD NAUSEAM.

Reply
 
 
Feb 27, 2024 05:45:15   #
Big Kahuna
 
TexaCan wrote:
Hi Tom, A newborn is not evilā€¦ā€¦ā€¦They are precious in the sight of our Lord and Savior! However, we are all born sinners. Below is a site that I often use in discussions concerning the Bible. I hope this helps you understand why many on this thread is making the claim that babies are born sinners! I have to admitā€¦..they sure are cute sinners! šŸ¤—. They are definitely born butt-naked and hungry!


Are we all born sinners?

Yes, the Bible teaches that we are all born sinners with sinful, selfish natures. Unless we are born again by the Spirit of God, we will never see the kingdom of God (John 3:3).

Humanity is totally depraved; that is, all of us have a sinful nature that affects every part of us (Isaiah 53:6; Romans 7:14). The question is, where did that sinful nature come from? Were we born sinners, or did we simply choose to become sinners sometime after birth?

We are born with a sinful nature, and we inherited it from Adam. ā€œSin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all peopleā€ (Romans 5:12). Every one of us was affected by Adamā€™s sin; there are no exceptions. ā€œOne trespass resulted in condemnation for all peopleā€ (verse 18). We are all sinners, and we all share the same condemnation, because we are all children of Adam.

Scripture indicates that even children have a sin nature, which argues for the fact that we are born sinners. ā€œFolly is bound up in the heart of a childā€ (Proverbs 22:15). David says, ā€œSurely I was sinful at birth, / sinful from the time my mother conceived meā€ (Psalm 51:5). ā€œEven from birth the wicked go astray; / from the womb they are wayward, spreading liesā€ (Psalm 58:3).

Before we were saved, ā€œwe were by nature deserving of wrathā€ (Ephesians 2:3). Note that we deserved Godā€™s wrath not only because of our actions but because of our nature. That nature is what we inherited from Adam.

We are born sinners, and for that reason we are unable to do good in order to please God in our natural state, or the flesh: ā€œThose who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please Godā€ (Romans 8:8). We were dead in our sins before Christ raised us to spiritual life (Ephesians 2:1). We lack any inherent spiritual good.

No one has to teach a child to lie; rather, we must go to great lengths to impress upon children the value of telling the truth. Toddlers are naturally selfish, with their innate, although faulty, understanding that everything is ā€œmine.ā€ Sinful behavior comes naturally for the little ones because they are born sinners.

Because we are born sinners, we must experience a second, spiritual birth. We are born once into Adamā€™s family and are sinners by nature. When we are born again, we are born into Godā€™s family and are given the nature of Christ. We praise the Lord that ā€œto all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of Godā€”children born not of natural descent . . . but born of Godā€ (John 1:12ā€“13).

https://www.gotquestions.org/born-sinners.html
Hi Tom, A newborn is not evilā€¦ā€¦ā€¦They are precious... (show quote)


And Amen and amen.

Reply
Feb 27, 2024 06:42:46   #
Ronald Hatt Loc: Lansing, Mich
 
TJKMO wrote:
Then you missed it.


I will help you out.

Let it not be said I donā€™t PITY MAGA!!


https://www.salvationarmy.org.nz/sites/default/files/files/tsmp_int_social_justice.pdf

WILL MAGA BASH THE SALVATION ARMY NOW?

Will MAGA BOYCOTT the Salvation Army now?


"If...anyone"...could mix, all the demo'rat minds, at this venue into one seething mass, of Political stupidity: That's where this TJKMO, would come from!

"A child is born", of a combination of political losers, & mind numbed Kool-aid drinkers, from the *septic tank of demo'rat residents!

"Voila!" Now comes *TJKMO, "a somewhat skewed, blend of ignorance, & faulty logic...[ So typical of Libretard thinking!]

{Translation of this acronym}: "THIS JERK KNOWS MOSTLY OVERABUNDANCE"....[ of pure stupidity]

"This guy", must most assuredly be a blood relative of our favorite "PITHECANTHROPUS" President!

*Bath House Barry...Homo, from Chicago! **The Treasonous kenyan, that brought us "FUNDAMENTAL CHANGE"!

Reply
Feb 27, 2024 10:17:07   #
padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al
 
TexaCan wrote:
Hi Tom, A newborn is not evilā€¦ā€¦ā€¦They are precious in the sight of our Lord and Savior! However, we are all born sinners. Below is a site that I often use in discussions concerning the Bible. I hope this helps you understand why many on this thread is making the claim that babies are born sinners! I have to admitā€¦..they sure are cute sinners! šŸ¤—. They are definitely born butt-naked and hungry!


Are we all born sinners?

Yes, the Bible teaches that we are all born sinners with sinful, selfish natures. Unless we are born again by the Spirit of God, we will never see the kingdom of God (John 3:3).

Humanity is totally depraved; that is, all of us have a sinful nature that affects every part of us (Isaiah 53:6; Romans 7:14). The question is, where did that sinful nature come from? Were we born sinners, or did we simply choose to become sinners sometime after birth?

We are born with a sinful nature, and we inherited it from Adam. ā€œSin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all peopleā€ (Romans 5:12). Every one of us was affected by Adamā€™s sin; there are no exceptions. ā€œOne trespass resulted in condemnation for all peopleā€ (verse 18). We are all sinners, and we all share the same condemnation, because we are all children of Adam.

Scripture indicates that even children have a sin nature, which argues for the fact that we are born sinners. ā€œFolly is bound up in the heart of a childā€ (Proverbs 22:15). David says, ā€œSurely I was sinful at birth, / sinful from the time my mother conceived meā€ (Psalm 51:5). ā€œEven from birth the wicked go astray; / from the womb they are wayward, spreading liesā€ (Psalm 58:3).

Before we were saved, ā€œwe were by nature deserving of wrathā€ (Ephesians 2:3). Note that we deserved Godā€™s wrath not only because of our actions but because of our nature. That nature is what we inherited from Adam.

We are born sinners, and for that reason we are unable to do good in order to please God in our natural state, or the flesh: ā€œThose who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please Godā€ (Romans 8:8). We were dead in our sins before Christ raised us to spiritual life (Ephesians 2:1). We lack any inherent spiritual good.

No one has to teach a child to lie; rather, we must go to great lengths to impress upon children the value of telling the truth. Toddlers are naturally selfish, with their innate, although faulty, understanding that everything is ā€œmine.ā€ Sinful behavior comes naturally for the little ones because they are born sinners.

Because we are born sinners, we must experience a second, spiritual birth. We are born once into Adamā€™s family and are sinners by nature. When we are born again, we are born into Godā€™s family and are given the nature of Christ. We praise the Lord that ā€œto all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of Godā€”children born not of natural descent . . . but born of Godā€ (John 1:12ā€“13).

https://www.gotquestions.org/born-sinners.html
Hi Tom, A newborn is not evilā€¦ā€¦ā€¦They are precious... (show quote)


Good morning Tex, another day in paradise.

I'd like to share with you some of my understanding regarding Augustanian theology on original sin adopted by the West and Calvin's "Tulip" wherein we find total depravity even today.

In the Orthodox view, guilt can only result from an act which one has committed. We can't sin for another person. We believe that we need a savior to overcome death and our separation from God, to be forgiven our own transgressions, but not to be forgiven for Adam's transgression. With regard to original sin, the difference between Orthodox Christianity and the West may be outlined as follows:

In the Orthodox Faith, the term ā€œoriginal sinā€ refers to the ā€œfirstā€ sin of Adam and Eve. As a result of this sin, humanity bears the ā€œconsequencesā€ of sin, the chief of which is death. Here the word ā€œoriginalā€ may be seen as synonymous with ā€œfirst.ā€ Hence, the ā€œoriginal sinā€ refers to the ā€œfirst sin."

In the West, humanity likewise bears the ā€œconsequencesā€ of the ā€œoriginal sinā€ of Adam and Eve, Death. However, the West also understands that humanity is likewise ā€œguiltyā€ of the sin of Adam and Eve, the condition into which humanity is born, a condition in which guilt as well as consequence is involved.

In the Orthodox Christian understanding, while humanity does bear the consequences of the original, or first, sin which is death, humanity does not bear the personal guilt associated with this sin. Adam and Eve are guilty of their willful action; we bear the consequences, chief of which again is death.

One might look at all of this in a completely different light. Imagine, if you will, that one of your close relatives was a mass murderer. He committed many serious crimes for which he was found guiltyā€”and perhaps even admitted his guilt publicly. You, as his or her son or brother or cousin, may very well bear the consequences of his actionā€”people may shy away from you or say, ā€œWatch out for himā€”he comes from a family of mass murderers.ā€ Your name may be tainted, or you may face some other forms of discrimination as a consequence of your relativeā€™s sin. You, however, are not personally guilty of his or her sin.

Since Orthodox never accepted the idea of original sin from Adam that resulted in total hereditary depravity, the idea that humans are so fallen that they cannot choose to follow God in and of themselves, they have to be called by God, is also rejected. The difference in viewing the fall of humanity results in a very different view ofĀ salvation, which to the Orthodox is a life-long continuous process.Ā In western protestantism salvation is a one time event.Ā Salvation to the Orthodox is more like what some protestant denominations callĀ sanctification. Sanctification isĀ the Holy Spirit's work of making us holy over time.

I was both baptised and raised in traditional Western Augustanian understanding of original sin. It is still my initial "muscle memory" go to place when thinking about it yet I now accept ancient Orthodox theology & understanding, it makes more sense to me. How can anyone look upon a baby and see a creature totally depraved?

Then comes the issue of Baptism. What does baptism actually accomplish? Does it not free us from death? Does it not make us a child of God by adoption? Does it not establish a covenant relationship with God in much the same way a Jewish boy child was circumcised on the 8th day after his birth and thereby established a covenant relationship with God? Baptism mean being born again, our old man being crucified with Christ that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. In baptism we rise up a new person into the life of Christ. Orthodox baptism of a baby includes anointing the child with chrismation which bestows the Holy Spirit.

BTW - When Jesus was baptised it wasn't that Jesus needed baptism. Baptism needed Jesus.

Well holy moly, did I get carried away so early, before breakfast too. Anyhow, I thought only to share some older non- Augustanian understandings with you. Augustine also later rejected his thoughts on total depravity as I recall.

I'm off to get a haircut later today. Am I happy that I didn't inherit any of Samson's genes. I might not be able to make it home if I did. šŸ¤£

Pax my brother.

Reply
Feb 27, 2024 10:36:12   #
Ronald Hatt Loc: Lansing, Mich
 
padremike wrote:
Good morning Tex, another day in paradise.

I'd like to share with you some of my understanding regarding Augustanian theology on original sin adopted by the West and Calvin's "Tulip" wherein we find total depravity even today.

In the Orthodox view, guilt can only result from an act which one has committed. We can't sin for another person. We believe that we need a savior to overcome death and our separation from God, to be forgiven our own transgressions, but not to be forgiven for Adam's transgression. With regard to original sin, the difference between Orthodox Christianity and the West may be outlined as follows:

In the Orthodox Faith, the term ā€œoriginal sinā€ refers to the ā€œfirstā€ sin of Adam and Eve. As a result of this sin, humanity bears the ā€œconsequencesā€ of sin, the chief of which is death. Here the word ā€œoriginalā€ may be seen as synonymous with ā€œfirst.ā€ Hence, the ā€œoriginal sinā€ refers to the ā€œfirst sin."

In the West, humanity likewise bears the ā€œconsequencesā€ of the ā€œoriginal sinā€ of Adam and Eve, Death. However, the West also understands that humanity is likewise ā€œguiltyā€ of the sin of Adam and Eve, the condition into which humanity is born, a condition in which guilt as well as consequence is involved.

In the Orthodox Christian understanding, while humanity does bear the consequences of the original, or first, sin which is death, humanity does not bear the personal guilt associated with this sin. Adam and Eve are guilty of their willful action; we bear the consequences, chief of which again is death.

One might look at all of this in a completely different light. Imagine, if you will, that one of your close relatives was a mass murderer. He committed many serious crimes for which he was found guiltyā€”and perhaps even admitted his guilt publicly. You, as his or her son or brother or cousin, may very well bear the consequences of his actionā€”people may shy away from you or say, ā€œWatch out for himā€”he comes from a family of mass murderers.ā€ Your name may be tainted, or you may face some other forms of discrimination as a consequence of your relativeā€™s sin. You, however, are not personally guilty of his or her sin.

Since Orthodox never accepted the idea of original sin from Adam that resulted in total hereditary depravity, the idea that humans are so fallen that they cannot choose to follow God in and of themselves, they have to be called by God, is also rejected. The difference in viewing the fall of humanity results in a very different view ofĀ salvation, which to the Orthodox is a life-long continuous process.Ā In western protestantism salvation is a one time event.Ā Salvation to the Orthodox is more like what some protestant denominations callĀ sanctification. Sanctification isĀ the Holy Spirit's work of making us holy over time.

I was both baptised and raised in traditional Western Augustanian understanding of original sin. It is still my initial "muscle memory" go to place when thinking about it yet I now accept ancient Orthodox theology & understanding, it makes more sense to me. How can anyone look upon a baby and see a creature totally depraved?

Then comes the issue of Baptism. What does baptism actually accomplish? Does it not free us from death? Does it not make us a child of God by adoption? Does it not establish a covenant relationship with God in much the same way a Jewish boy child was circumcised on the 8th day after his birth and thereby established a covenant relationship with God? Baptism mean being born again, our old man being crucified with Christ that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. In baptism we rise up a new person into the life of Christ. Orthodox baptism of a baby includes anointing the child with chrismation which bestows the Holy Spirit.

BTW - When Jesus was baptised it wasn't that Jesus needed baptism. Baptism needed Jesus.

Well holy moly, did I get carried away so early, before breakfast too. Anyhow, I thought only to share some older non- Augustanian understandings with you. Augustine also later rejected his thoughts on total depravity as I recall.

I'm off to get a haircut later today. Am I happy that I didn't inherit any of Samson's genes. I might not be able to make it home if I did. šŸ¤£

Pax my brother.
Good morning Tex, another day in paradise. br br ... (show quote)


{Biden....is a Moil!} he will "circumcise, even those that do not have any reproductive organs"! Who are those

people you say?....[ Those would be LBGTQ]...this "circumcision", can only be performed "Mentally"...as one would

expect, because their 'sexuality", is on the end of their tongue!

while their sexuality "is in the place, they were born with"...These sexually confused "things", must vocally

expound on their, biological confusion, to all they meet! Therefore: circumsize, them at the "neck"...just below

the Chinney, chin, chin!

*Complete instructions for same: available at the corner Butcher shop! [ Moil,or NO, Moil]!

Reply
 
 
Feb 27, 2024 10:49:58   #
padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al
 
Ronald Hatt wrote:
{Biden....is a Moil!} he will "circumcise, even those that do not have any reproductive organs"! Who are those

people you say?....[ Those would be LBGTQ]...this "circumcision", can only be performed "Mentally"...as one would

expect, because their 'sexuality", is on the end of their tongue!

while their sexuality "is in the place, they were born with"...These sexually confused "things", must vocally

expound on their, biological confusion, to all they meet! Therefore: circumsize, them at the "neck"...just below

the Chinney, chin, chin!

*Complete instructions for same: available at the corner Butcher shop! [ Moil,or NO, Moil]!
{Biden....is a Moil!} he will "circumcise, e... (show quote)


šŸ¤£šŸ¤£šŸ¤£ I'm going to find me a dark quiet place and hide. They're everywhere. I figure we can circumcised the Trans with an old fashioned, fastened to the wall, pencil sharpener. I'm inclined to believe you'd volunteer to turn the handle. šŸ™„šŸ¤«

Reply
Feb 27, 2024 10:53:40   #
Ronald Hatt Loc: Lansing, Mich
 
padremike wrote:
šŸ¤£šŸ¤£šŸ¤£ I'm going to find me a dark quiet place and hide. They're everywhere. I figure we can circumcised the Trans with an old fashioned, fastened to the wall, pencil sharpener. I'm inclined to believe you'd volunteer to turn the handle. šŸ™„šŸ¤«


"IM....YOUR HUCKELBERRY!".....

Pencil sharpener is the "Old fashioned", method....*Up-to-Date, method: hand grenade! [ You only need one...to do a whole group]! [ I'm Still....Your Huckelberry!]

Reply
Feb 27, 2024 11:02:51   #
EmilyD
 
padremike wrote:
šŸ¤£šŸ¤£šŸ¤£ I'm going to find me a dark quiet place and hide. They're everywhere. I figure we can circumcised the Trans with an old fashioned, fastened to the wall, pencil sharpener. I'm inclined to believe you'd volunteer to turn the handle. šŸ™„šŸ¤«


Now THERE's an image!!! šŸ˜³šŸ˜¬šŸ¤“šŸ˜‚

..

Reply
Feb 27, 2024 11:32:29   #
padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al
 
EmilyD wrote:
Now THERE's an image!!! šŸ˜³šŸ˜¬šŸ¤“šŸ˜‚

..


I'm in hiding šŸ˜‡

Reply
 
 
Feb 27, 2024 13:05:40   #
lindynduff1
 
padremike wrote:
šŸ¤£šŸ¤£šŸ¤£ I'm going to find me a dark quiet place and hide. They're everywhere. I figure we can circumcised the Trans with an old fashioned, fastened to the wall, pencil sharpener. I'm inclined to believe you'd volunteer to turn the handle. šŸ™„šŸ¤«


So you knowI have talked here about the danger of the EDCā€™s in the endocrine system and how they have a bad effect on the cells that control reproduction. Today a new piece of info that the Y chromosome is being degraded. Since the Y chromosome distinguishes whether the embryo is male or female. Now I know that professors and scientists are not welcome here but if you care, this is in the most recent issue of Salon.

Reply
Feb 28, 2024 11:13:17   #
Ronald Hatt Loc: Lansing, Mich
 
EmilyD wrote:
Now THERE's an image!!! šŸ˜³šŸ˜¬šŸ¤“šŸ˜‚

..


EmilyD....[ Tsk, Tsk....you should be ashamed!] "Pornography", in this venue? [ or is it Justice?]

Reply
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