Ranger7374 Loc: Arizona, 40 miles from the border in the DMZ

That is the most ridiculous defense of the Jan 6 hearings.

"It doesn't matter if there were weapons there because Trump knew there were weapons there."

What kind of defense is that! So accuse a person of weapons and don't have the weapons to show for evidence?

No. If an accusation is made it needs to be proven by hard, cold, evidence. Conjecture, projection, subjection, is not evidence if it is not corroborated by cold hard evidence.

In many cases it's the hard cold evidence that convicts....so what do we have in Jan 6, case.

A mob of angry people. A session, joint session of Congress, and the mob was let into the building as the election was being questioned. Then when order was restored, one person dead and a rush to certify the election. That's it.

If you say Trump knew the crowd was armed and there is no arms in custody. Then I can say that Trump won the election and there was voter fraud that was demonstrated as electors.

But since neither is true, then what is the truth?

So enjoy your popcorn, and watch your illegitimate committee, perform as side show entertainers who are trying to make thier performance the main event.

This is a dog and pony show, judged by the kangaroos in their court.

No weapons in custody, no weapon list, no case. It's that simple, everything else is irrelevant.

Milosia2 Loc: Cleveland Ohio

Sharpened American Flagpoles into Spears.
To beat down the police. Bear spray , and countless other weapons.
Were they True Patriotic Americans ?
Or just more trump hooligans trying to turn an election into trumps favor. One they really botched up terribly. And now they are seditionists ,traitors to the Constitution
Are oath beepers and proud boys really patriots ? If so , patriots of what ?
Patriots of the Holy Lies passed down from
Their cultist Messiah ?
I say , hang 1/2 of them and send the rest to Guantanamo.
Along with their dear leader.
Any sympathizers will be severely dealt with.
Tell me what Saddam Hussein would’ve done with these traitors ?
LMFAO !!!!!
It’s who you want in charge apparently .

Milosia2 Loc: Cleveland Ohio

You really can’t say that because you don’t know that to be a fact .
They found a storage facility filled with weapons and enough food for 30 days.
Not far from the Capital .
The Willard Hotel was
Command Headquarters .
You are not required to believe any of it.
The Court will decide for you.
Being a Nation of Law and Order .
Managed by Laws.
And then you can have your whiney cry baby fit about how unfair it is to punish the “evildoers” as 43 calls them.
Waaah !!!
It’s not fair !!!!!
Waaah !!

Milosia2 Loc: Cleveland Ohio

Nope.

It’s the perpetrators themselves flipping on each other , trying to save their own bacon from the fire. The Committee is only listening and taking notes. While the Insurrectionists rat each other out, while begging for mercy.
Too Funny !!!!
And they thought they could run a government.
The committee is following the rule of Law set forth in the Constitution.
Apparently, there are some very strict laws
Against rallying against the Government.
Along with the social brand of being a traitor walking around free.

Milosia2 Loc: Cleveland Ohio

They weren’t checked. Trumpy took out the metal detectors so they could get into the ellipse. What did you deduce from that?
They “were not” checked for weapons.
One man was arrested and charged for weapons, the rest were Not checked.

Haski123

Police confiscated weapons found- here are some specifics(note: number of guns present will never be known as unless stopped or arrested, others were able to walk away-people were turned away from eclipse due to weapons,also many walked to capital vs going through metal detectors.Here you go:
Lonnie Coffman of Alabama: Police found multiple firearms and weapons in Coffman’s possession. Coffman’s truck, which he had parked in the vicinity of the Capitol on the morning of Jan. 6, was packed with weaponry including a handgun, a rifle and a shotgun, each loaded, according to court documents. In addition, the truck held hundreds of rounds of ammunition, several large-capacity ammunition feeding devices, a crossbow with bolts, machetes, camouflage smoke devices, a stun gun and 11 Molotov cocktails.

Court records and video surveillance footage show that Coffman, who had ties to militia groups, parked the vehicle near the Capitol at 9:15 a.m. that day. The documents say that after he got out of his pickup truck at 9:20 a.m., he joined a crowd of people who walked directly to the Capitol building.

He was detained later that evening as an unnamed woman was driving him back toward his truck. Police questioned Coffman and searched him, finding two more handguns on his person. None of the weapons were registered, documents state.

Guy Reffitt of Texas: Reffitt was charged with bringing a handgun onto Capitol grounds. Court documents showed that Reffitt, reported in court documents to be a member of the militia group Three Percenters, told his family he brought his gun with him and that he and others "stormed the Capitol."

Christopher Michael Alberts of Maryland: Alberts brought his handgun onto Capitol grounds. An officer saw that Alberts had a gun on his hip and alerted fellow officers. When Alberts tried to flee, officers detained him and recovered the loaded handgun along with a separate magazine.

The total number of people who carried firearms with them that day may not ever be fully accounted for because the majority of those involved in the siege were not arrested on-site but were tracked down by law enforcement days, weeks and months later.

It’s also worth noting that the definition of "armed" is not legally limited to guns — it refers to any weapon used for defense or offense and used as a means of protection. Other items used as weapons Jan. 6 included bats, crutches, flagpoles, skateboards, fire extinguishers and chemical sprays. So there are weapons documented on people entering capital, plus other weapons, plus stashes of weapons found in vehicles around the capital. I suspect you will now say to few to cause concern. Cheers!

Ranger7374 Loc: Arizona, 40 miles from the border in the DMZ

No all those carrying weapons, from guns, to swords, to any form of weapon should be charged and prosecuted. My point here is if there isn't weapons at the event, the "heavily armed crowd" is a lie.

Now that you have presented individuals that had weapons it follows of those who had weapons, how many of them used said weapons in the incident. We're the weapons at the ready? Or were the weapons holstered- for lack of a better term?

If they were not at the ready, then those individuals were not a threat. For if that is true that they are a threat because they are carrying then the second amendment applies. Mind you it applies up to the entrance to the building...once they entered the building then there would be a weapons charge aggravated to trespassing.

If the capital was closed during the session...which it should have been for the safety of Congress, then who let the protesters in?

Sure a window/door was breached however that is the failure of security forces not the crowd, even though those who took advantage of the breach are responsible for trespassing and forcible breach.

Now, this is what Sean Hannity as well other right wing talk show hosts keep harping on since the president authorized national guard troops that were turned down by the capital authority, up to and including the mayor of DC and Nancy Peloski.

So here we are looking at the incident from the incident itself. Establish the threat and ask the question, why couldn't the government protect themselves? They are charged with protecting the nation yet they couldn't protect themselves.

This should be the first focus of the committee. The second focus is how did we get here? The short answer, should all things be fair, is summed up in two phrases:

1. intolerance coupled by anger and emotion. This is the main reason this incident occured. If at any time in the events of 2020 all the way until Jan 6th, if people would have controlled their emotions and researched all the complaints, from George Floyd to Jan 6, then a resolution would have been developed by intelligent people. But rather than coming to a resolution, intolerance on both sides continued to boil over. So the force of the summer of 2020 protests boiled over on Jan 6th. Which brings me to my second point:

2. Backlash of the intolerance of the summer coupled by the ghost questions of the election. Politics is a lot like the soap operas of the 1980s-90s where a writer uses emotion to develop the story. However, there were millions of disgruntled voters demanding answers and the only answer they got was a rushed procedure of counting the votes. But not only that, there was a failure of the government in protecting the people.

According to the first amendment every citizen has the right to express their feelings on an election. They have the right to persuade thier fellow Americans on their view point. That is not illegal. What is illegal is incitement.

The anger one candidate has, or the other, or both is irrelevant to what their followers do. Unless there is incitement.

With that being said, the rules of incitement we're weakend by Nancy Peloski and Maxine Waters. They were weakened by the squad. So if they can invite, by the rules of nature not honor, so can the other side incite.

So if incitement is not going to be enforced, then all is fair in love and war. All is fair.

The American public wants thier leaders to work together to make our lives better and maintain the peace. The American public enjoys a good fight. But the American public does not want it to turn into a free for all. The American public wants the contest to be fair and not be changed once the race begins.

Many engineers and mathematicians I work with questioned the election. But we watched as the 2020 election fell apart. So at that point it didn't matter who won, and whosoever won would be the loser.

So when looking into Jan 6 it would be helpful to have a good perry mason cross-examination of the witnesses rather than this dog and pony show.

elledee

So where are the weapons today? Again I ask for the list of weapons used in Jan 6 marked as an exhibit of evidence? A camera shit can be misrepresented. The actual weapon in hand cannot. Where is the list of weapons used Jan 6th?[/quote]

The real question for me is why did the powers that be let these people in the capitol...I think it was a set up to destroy Trump which is the same man that offered piglousy 20 thousand national guard troops a few days before and she is the person who is responsible for maintaining security at the capitol that turned them down...And once again the demonrats can't pass the smell test

Haski123

Wow good twist- you said no one has shown a list of weapons no weapons there- I showed you there were, now vs accepting the fact there were, you twist/ deflect to capital police, were the guns used( neither in your original request.) It never ends with you. Weapons as defined were there, they were used, in one entrance the guards overwhelmed allowed the people in. How about the smashed window entrance then went a opened entrance- blows a hole in that statement.
The fact that incitement was not stop thus became fair play when officers were overwhelmed is a very poor position to take. No proof that any fraud or activity that would have overturned the election existed. ALL conspiracy theories to date have been fully debunked. The lie repeated from highest office in country was repeated, repeated and has become the unproven truth to Trumps supporters even over 1 1/2 years later. It takes time to investigate. Our election system is sound and its soundness is being weakened needlessly by the big lie. Trump lost Biden won! I do want to ask you one question what have you done to improve the sanctity of the election, the flag, the USA as free country. We all owe it to our forefathers, citizens and others to be positive about this country, one way to do that is to influence others to respect election, , the flag, USA & its leader. How many people have you favorably influenced today. It’s a daily question we all need to ask ourselves and be able to answer favorably if we are to be the greatest nation in the world again. Which side are you on build up or destroy democracy? I know what side I’m on - build up.

Ranger7374 Loc: Arizona, 40 miles from the border in the DMZ

Wow you are a work of art aren't you?

Numbers don't lie, and in the case of the 2020 election it would be prudent to describe the numbers that came in and properly vet those numbers to get an accurate account.

Trying to look at the situation objectively and not taking anything for granted. It would be prudent to understand how the numbers turned out the way they did.

Being in a trade of physics, I have seen many phenomenons concerning numbers. Sometimes the numbers surprise you. That is why I disagreed with Trump, when he said "the election was stolen"

Evidence of the "steal" was jumping the gun. But evidence to the contrary was also jumping the gun. So a fair accounting is all I searched for.

Was there fraud in 2020? The answer was yes. Now here's the trick, was the fraud big enough to sway the election? That question has not been answered because too many people jumped the gun. Now all we can do is live with the actions of the vice president. Biden is unfortunately the president but the fraud still needs to be investigated and everyone is caught up in emotion and can't explain the anomalies that exist.

Could it be as simple as a mathematical error? Could it be as simple as an accidental double count, and not an intentional one? Could it be as simple as changing the rules after the players started the race? Who knows?

But these and many more questions have not been answered. The only question they focused on was the mental state of Trump. Which is why the ratings went down.

Now the above 7 paragraphs above focused on the election. And the math of the election. Nothing more. Just the science. That's why at this point, I don't care who won, I care about the election itself....the contest that the rules changed mid stride....that's one issue.

When playing roulette, once the ball is spinning in the wheel, no bets can be cast. Once the gun is shot in the air, at the dog or horse races, no more bets can be made. But in this context, bets could be made. Why? And was it enough to sway the election?

Not answered. I focused in an earlier post about the security and the physical possessions of the so called rioters. So the first question is the Hannity question, if the president has national guards troops on standby, why didn't congressional leadership use them?

I know, had it been me, I would have certainly used them. But it was denied by congressional and city leaders. Why?

And the most disturbing of all questions, after the interruption of the riot, why did members agree to continue with the count. Than have a safety stand down? Instead they pushed the procedure through making haste. This haste was foolish, in my opinion for it prevented and changed the course of the contention of the election.

Nevertheless what happened, happened and it was the job of the Jan 6 committee to answer these questions but they refuse to do so....now what?

Haski123

First your question on election integrity have been fully investigated with No Significant changes: paper ballot recounts, validation of voting machine counts vs paper, independent audits, electoral votes certified at states and presented to Pence. They restarted the electoral count after intruders were exited. They followed same process just did it later in night early in AM- no rush noted. Intruders may have helped move electoral count along- just delayed the count. No rules changed in middle of election to my knowledge. One state due to Covid loosened mail in ballot process without going through state legislature. Any other changes or anomalies ( normal in any election) were ID’d ,investigated and documented with no impact to election outcome found. It’s a year and a half later Election proven sound. All that’s left are ~ 60% of Republicans still believing the big lie- totally debunked by state governments, DOJ, USA Election IT Security, FBI, audits, courts, - standing mostly because no concrete prosecutable evidence provided, audits. Your questions have been clearly answered you are not accepting them. Stats: largest turnout for election ever, Trump drove out voters, problem is more were against Trump than for him so he lost. As forecasted more mail in ballots placed by Democrats than Republicans- known statistic, they are typically last counted so later counted votes would skew towards Biden. Not sure what other statistical issues or mid election changes you feel impacted outcome. The security at Capital was a mess but has little to nothing to do with election integrity or outcome( explained earlier in note). I talked with my kids today about honoring flag, & supporting elected leaders, also wrote note to my Senator Amy K. About rebuilding Respect of Govt. what have you done to positively support USA and influence others. You ask questions, you say you believe in stats, haven’t seen any! Just regurgitation of GOP-Trump big lie talking points.

Ranger7374 Loc: Arizona, 40 miles from the border in the DMZ

Do I really have to explain my background really. What have I done....I don't have to say but I will to satisfy you....

From 1991 to 1996 served in the United States Navy fighting in desert storm. In 2002 joined the army national guard and was activated for Iraqi freedom served until 2004.

I have been involved in various groups such as the American Legion and the VFW....helped my mom then later my sister become president of the VFW ladies auxiliary. Now my sister is district president.

I supported in many ways law enforcement and in 2020 donated one of my national defense metals, my cousin and the police department thanking them for their service.

In 2014, I started one of three, Praying for America Through A Psalm of David on the Opp. This ran three times and ended with parking for the victims of the Las Vegas shooting.

Some of the old-timers here on the Opp remember my topic and know me. Some of the liberals here hate me and most of the conservatives love me on this site.

I need not explain anything to you for your condescending tone or your negative view point. I am considering running for Senator for the state of Arizona in 2024, the reason is to bring order back to a country that has lost all sense of the word.

I believe in God and Country, and believe our freedom starts with the family, for if you can't work with your brother how are you to work with a stranger.

I question the election on a purely mathematical stand point. It is very frustrating when the raw data is assumed and not examined because an assumption is made. This goes against Trump as well as against Trump.

We need to take care when we say it is, when it may not be and logically work to a clear path to truth. After the truth is established I'm sure even Trump will concede if the truth is made known.

However, since it's not a case of "sorry, you lost" but a case of "I told you so". Since that is the case I don't want anything to do with the dog and pony show that leads to more division, fighting and death.

I get along with both sides of the aisle when there is logic. But disagree with both sides when it is condescending. Therefore, if you want an honest discussion I'm good with that. If all you want to do is recklessly assume, it will fall on deaf ears and blind eyes.

I'm sick of this generation basing everything on assumptions finding the innocent guilty.

Baby steps put the events of 2020 in perspective and then come to the conclusion. If the conclusion is not what we got now, then ask the question why?

It is our right I fought for in two wars to do so, and it's my right to do so now. Understand?

Haski123

Thanks for sharing your background. I read your note, obviously you feel that the audits & investigations in all swing states need to be repeated? Aren’t you saying 2020 election is fraudulent- guilty before being proven innocent. Condescending is a matter of opinion, logic supported by facts is truth- not condescending. Good luck with your run for Senator-remember to walk to talk. Note: I’m a disabled USAF veteran as well,I greatly respect the USA,the flag, our commander in chief- duly elected, and this country of democracy and freedom! Thanks for your service.

Ranger7374 Loc: Arizona, 40 miles from the border in the DMZ

This is where me and my fellow Trump supporters and my fellow conservatives differ. I don't know if the election in the swing states were fraudulent or not. They may have been as close to legit as we can get as this explosive environment shows. That's why I want to call an independent, non partisan investigation.

This part of my comment is not directed to you personally but is directed to the intelligent condensation who has so much pride that they dismiss the baby steps: there's something missing in all of this.

When there's serious complaints and intelligent prideful people begin to dismiss circumstances they miss the big picture. It came out today that there should be an independent investigation on what Joe Biden knew and when did he know about Hunter's overseas business dealings. That right there could be fraud against the American public by misleading them.

And if that part is true, what other fraud was committed? That's why this whole thing is suspicious. And is pushing me to run for the US Senate. If I do, I haven't decided yet, then it would be during the 2024 election cycle. I'm considering it.

What we need are leaders that seek advancing the human condition and by doing so provide security and prosperity for ourselves and our families. Not allowing government to be reduced to 535 old ninnies arguing about what the temperature in the chamber should be.

As far as the other two branches we need leaders to do what is right and fight for the greater good. The world is complicated and brutal but like Reagan showed all of us by 1989, it doesn't have to be. I believe Trump and how reckless he was was bringing us to that point....but now we need a fighter like Trump and a hard worker like Trump, but someone who has class like Regan.

Trump is a good start, but not the end all be all. We must elect leaders that are individuals, and although members of a political machine, but strong enough to go up against the machine if there is a need.

Franklin said that factions would destroy the Republic, and it's time to destroy factions and we should all be one. But that's my opinion.

We have to be brave and smart enough to be our own person, and come together with our strengths without hurting each other. We need to do this for our own freedom.

When a faction, conservative or liberal, or progressive becomes too big, then they are a threat to democracy. And both in my opinion is too big because where's the truth.

Thank you for your service. Thank you for being my brother in arms.