permafrost Loc: Minnesota

son, you post so much misinformation it can get bewildering..

Name a country which has folded because it went down the green yellow brick road. The need to reduce fossil fuel use is so obvious, I can not begin to find any merit in ranting for its continuing use for as long as we can..

If the industry was required to account for all the negatives of fossil fuel use the price to consumers would be so high the alternatives would be enacted in a fortnight..

As for your last bit, American middleclass has lost more under republican administrations then any other form of government America has ever seen..

And it is not socialism to provide for the needs of the majority of people rather then only the wealthy..

Peaver Bogart Loc: Montana

If you would pay attention, you would know that it was Permi that first said something about wanting another person to go away.

"permafrost wrote: I do not want to offend you. only want you to go away.. you bring nothing to opp, why bother"?

You two and about 30 others bring nothing to OPP but your ELWNJ destroy our freedom comments to this forum.

son of witless

Wow, you have given me so much ammunition to work with. First off your deceptively worded " Name a country which has folded because it went down the green yellow brick road. " shows your desperation to win at all costs. As does your comment " The need to reduce fossil fuel use is so obvious, " That is what we experienced political warriors call a logical fallacy. I reject what to you is obvious.

Germany is Europe's economic power house. It competes with and trades with China and the US. Nobody can compete on labor costs with China. At least not Germany and the US. Germany competes with the US largely on energy costs. Thanks to fracking, the US has or had before idiot Biden a huge competitive advantage over Germany on energy costs. Here is a little background.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2019/09/05/renewables-threaten-german-economy-energy-supply-mckinsey-warns-in-new-report/?sh=26cc74ef8e48

"
If the industry was required to account for all the negatives of fossil fuel use the price to consumers would be so high the alternatives would be enacted in a fortnight.. "

Typical left wing jibberish. America is the wealthiest nation in the world. It was built on free enterprise and abundant energy. Leftists hate America's prosperity and power and seek to destroy it. Now everyone with a brain knows that green energy will not compete on cost, on ease of use, and on availability.

However, the well connected Green Energy CABAL feeds money and influence to their buddies in the Democratic Party, which then seeks to raise the costs of fossil fuels and nuclear by hook or by crook, mostly CROOK so they can then compete !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"
As for your last bit, American middleclass has lost more under republican administrations then any other form of government America has ever seen.. "

It is always best in any argument to cite a relevant example of the case you want to make. I think, even YOU cannot complain about me using the State of California, to represent what America could turn into if Democrats ever get permanent political power.

Your good buddies the Democrats have controlled California with an iron fist for decades. Republicans are so weak in that state that other than getting a rino governor Schwarzennegger awhile back they really are a joke in the big scheme of things.

Commie fornia Democrats have pursued green energy, defund police, socialism, and every other crack pot leftist wet dream coming down the pike. So how is the middle class doing in the poster child state for Left wing stupid ? Well.

https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/412928-middle-class-is-disappearing-in-california-as-wealth-gap-grows

If I can possible further clarify reality for you or any of your friends, just let me know. You where you can find me.

Alber

The one with a complete load of crap in your brain and believe any $h*+ that is served by the media are you.
I copy what this scientist said:
"Climate change is a hoax": Former Greenpeace president lashes out at environmental campaigns
INSTAGRAM Posted: Mar 10, 2019 21:48 GMT | Last Updated: 11 Mar 2019 01:23 GMT
The activist assures that the supposed climate catastrophe is created to instill fear and control the minds of people. The organization responds that his speech is "paid for" by the nuclear industry.
Patrick Moore, former president of Greenpeace, has claimed that "climate change is a complete hoax and scam" driven by corrupt scientists who are hooked on public subsidies that benefit them. The statements were made in an interview offered on Wednesday on Breitbart radio.
Moore, a doctor of ecology, believes that environmental campaigns are related to "green businesses" that take advantage of massive subsidies, huge tax write-offs and government mandates to increase his fortune. "In the meantime, they enjoy propaganda protection from the media," he added. "Science is being involved with superstition, and there is a kind of toxic combination between religion and political ideology," said the activist, noting that the climate catastrophe is created to instill fear and control people's minds. During the interview, Moore commented that Greenpeace previously cared about people and had a humanitarian and environmental orientation. However, he believes that a new ecological agreement "against humans" is currently being promoted, strongly criticizing the organization. In addition, the former director declared that carbon dioxide is "food for life, not pollution", claiming that the use of fossil fuels actually "saved life from an early disappearance", because CO2 was decreasing since the last ice age. , and there was barely enough left for a plant on Earth to sustain itself.
Who you have to believe is Al Gore, who is a "good scientist".
Upon leaving the White House, Mr. Gore's private fortune was $ 2 million. Today, his investments in "green technology" have increased his personal capital by hundreds of millions of dollars. The result of having invested much of it in a handful of companies, 14 of which received more than $ 2.5 billion in loans, grants, tax breaks, and much more from the Obama administration. ---

Alber

You seem to smoke, smell, or inject yourself with something that clouds your brain. The rise in the price of oil has to do with supply and demand. In addition, if you have to import it, it costs more and the price of oil causes the prices of all products to rise, which generates inflation.
As for people who save money without going out for a year because of Plandemic, that's a fallacy.
So far, electric cars have problems that are not easy to solve and I don't see the Green New Deal doing anything but creating problems. Everything is based on raising money by imposing fines for the emission of CO2 that the US and the EU must pay to the UN, China produces three times more CO2 than the US and pays nothing. Furthermore, in all this the important thing is not CO2, which is a pretext, but environmental pollution, which has been greatly reduced here, not so in China and India, to name just two cases.
In terms of energy independence, that is what we had and what has been lost by reducing oil production.

permafrost Loc: Minnesota

Which years did we not import petroleum from any other country?

2019--- The US imported about 9.1 million barrels of petroleum per day in 2019 from about 90 countries.


the government hasn’t published full-year data yet for 2020, or any results for 2021. So there’s no evidence yet that the U.S. situation changed since Biden took office.

As for two executive orders issued by Biden on energy, they don’t affect current U.S. production levels, and it’s unclear whether they’ll have a long-term effect on U.S. energy independence.

Cuda2020

And there goes any form of civil conversation down the crapper, you guys just have to personally insult, you're incapable of a discussion. No all you want to do is ram things down peoples throats and if they disagree insult them. Do your damn research and wake up the environment is going nuts and All of it predicted! My god man what does it take, when every year there are more and more environmental catastrophic catastrophes.

The data is overwhelming, backed by what is happening with deforestation, droughts, fires, floods, hurricanes, tornadoes, melting glaciers and animal extinctions. This is real, not political, just like the covid virus, except knuckleheads want to believe the propaganda instead of the science.

son of witless

The data is underwhelming. Deforestation, droughts, fires, floods, hurricanes, tornadoes, melting glaciers, and animal glaciers, and animal extinctions have occurred for thousands of years.

Cuda2020

Electric cars don't have anything that is difficult to solve, just a matter of choice. OK, insult 2, this only confirms your lack of education, intelligence and manners.

That is exactly what I was talking about, supply and demand, how did you somehow miss that?

No, I don't use Al Gore. You got Patrick Moore, I'll raise you, I got...I use the AAAS, the ACS, the AGU,AMA,AMS,APS, the Geological Society of America who concurs with the assessments by the National Academies of Science (2005), the National Research Council (2011), the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC, 2013) and the U.S. Global Change Research Program (Melillo et al., 2014) that global climate has warmed in response to increasing concentrations of carbon dioxide (CO2) and other greenhouse gases ... Human activities (mainly greenhouse-gas emissions) are the dominant cause of the rapid warming since the middle 1900s (IPCC, 2013)." (2015)9

SCIENCE ACADEMIES

U.S. National Academy of Sciences

U.S. GOVERNMENT AGENCIES
USGCRP emblem
U.S. Global Change Research Program

INTERGOVERNMENTAL BODIES
IPCC emblem

OTHER RESOURCES
List of Worldwide Scientific Organizations
The following page lists the nearly 200 worldwide scientific organizations that hold the position that climate change has been caused by human action.
http://www.opr.ca.gov/facts/list-of-scientific-organizations.html

U.S. Agencies such as NASA
Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change

IPCC Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change states...
“Warming of the climate system is unequivocal, and since the 1950s, many of the observed changes are unprecedented over decades to millennia. The atmosphere and ocean have warmed, the amounts of snow and ice have diminished, and sea level has risen.”

“Human influence on the climate system is clear, and recent anthropogenic emissions of greenhouse gases are the highest in history. Recent climate changes have had widespread impacts on human and natural systems.”

Cuda2020

That coming from you is a riot

Alber

You tear your clothes in horror, as the Pharisees did, when what you have written can be applied verbatim to you and to those who are like you. You want to show that your opponents are the ones who do what you do. Let's see how you have written chronologically:
Cuda2020 Dec 5, 2021 07:57:54 #What a complete load of crap, and you believe that $h*+?
This scurrilous language, used before, is contrary to what you preach afterwards.
Cuda2020 Dec 5, 2021 18:04:35 #And there goes any form of civil conversation down the crapper, you guys just have to personally insult, you're incapable of a discussion. No all you want to do is ram things down peoples throats and if they disagree insult them.
This is what you preach: "Do what I say, but not what I do."
Alber Dec 5, 2021 16:21:28 #The one with a complete load of crap in your brain and believe any $h*+ that is served by the media are you.
In what is answered to you, your dirty words are not accepted and they are returned to you word for word.
That is why Jesus said of the Pharisees that they were whitewashed tombs; or what is the same, that what they had inside was carrion.

permafrost Loc: Minnesota

great post Cuda... now they will really be PO... that is so pleasant..

son of witless

I'm glad you find me amusing. You are mildly smarter than your brain dead liberal buddies on OPP in that you at least attempt to post coherent arguments. That doesn't make you right. You are lying to yourself. I've heard that same Liberal lie for years about green making countries more competitive.

I was just watching a CNN report where they went to Sudan and reported on massive flooding and the headline on the screen was something about Climate Change. I wanted to puke. Yessirree Bob. There were no Floods or Droughts before global Warming.

It's amazing how all you Left Wingers buy into this horse manure.