Searching Loc: Rural Southwest VA

I agree with you about reasoned principle -- to compromise your principles sends you down a slippery slope. I'm going to put myself out on a limb here and possibly even hand you the saw...."proponents of force"...."true liberty" more than likely mean different things to different people. Do me the kindness of explaining to me what you mean. I ask because I'm uncertain and want to know.

Tasine Loc: Southwest US

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A beautiful response, one of the nicest I've ever received. You are a good person, that is obvious. Question: If a "contribution" isn't accepted by one person out of the dozens on 1PP, why isn't it still a contribution? When a "contribution" must be accepted by everyone on the forum, it ceases to be a contribution and becomes a demand in my view.

You said several things in this post to me, that I'd like to discuss with you, NOT argue with you, but I'd like to attempt to help you understand why some in your community think you are "different". I think I probably am one of them in my heart. Everything I say here, to you, to everyone, is truth as I see it. Not everyone sees truth the same way. I haven't studied this so cannot be precise, but basically speaking, I believe most rural folks are conservative and most city dwellers are progressives. I doubt there are as many as 5 living liberals in the US these days. I think true liberals are honorable people and there are some I respected a great deal, but the democrat party has been taken over by progressives and the true liberals either no longer have a voice in the party or they have left the democrat party or they have been won over by the progressives.

In the '30's America had an active Communist Party but it had to operate somewhat clandestinely because they were not accepted well by American society. Joseph McCarthy in the '50's set out to "out" the communists in America. They went underground so to speak. They knew they could never win in America by being "open". They realized they had to work quietly and off the radar and they knew they had to win by incrementalism. Americans will put up with small infractions and torture of the Constitution, but will fight against an open attempt to radically change things. At that time, most Americans were true blue Americans who could relate to famine, war, terror, crime. They were tough and they were rugged. The Communist Party didn't believe it would be easy to undermine the US government. They understood they MUST gain traction and power in certain fields of endeavor in order to reach children in particular so that they could teach them from the ground up that America had more than just a Constitution (I'm surmising here because obviously I don't know that they actually thought).
Those fields of endeavor they infiltrated were:
1. Politics
2. Mass media
3. Education
4. Entertainment industry
5. Unions
They did a bang up job of infiltrating all of these professions and it didn't take long for civics to be stopped in schools, for geography to be a very minor subject, for the removal of the pledge of allegiance to begin each day at school. The American people who followed what was happening as best they could were most unhappy these people were getting as much traction as they were getting - AGAINST MOST AMERICANS' WISHES. Obama caused NONE of this. But he was the catalyst they NEEDED in order to exit their closets and become exceedingly aggressive in media and government. You may have noticed that as soon as Bush 43 left office there were progressives EVERYWHERE, and they sold the low info voters on how great Obama was. When we saw the communists/progressives exit their closets, we KNEW that THEY knew they had to make it work this time or they won't have another chance for decades. Ergo, our country is being ravaged at a rate it has never seen before. And it is harming EVERY AMERICAN, not only us, but generations to come.

Rural folks are as self reliant as possible and know the price when they cannot be self reliant. Their lives are extremely different from city dwellers' lives. I doubt that rural citizens have much in common with city citizens, and that is part of the problem. Additionally, city people see a lot more crime and are inbred to accept constraints put on them. Rural people do not LIKE constraints, particularly when there is no true need for those constraints. Constraints are loss of freedoms. Every law on the books is a constraint of someone's freedoms, and we have about 3 tons of laws in the National Archives. I don't know about everybody else, but every time anyone says "we need a law", I want to shake them and remind them that we have so many laws now, many of which are not enforced as required, that the average citizen may well be unknowingly committing a crime every day. Laws carry consequences, sometimes severe consequences, and usually those consequences do very little good and often they do a LOT of harm. Rural people understand better than city dwellers, I truly believe, how precious freedoms are and they have already lost so many that they tend to get angry when even more than 3 tons are then heaped upon them. I believe rural citizens are less likely to "go with the flow" than city citizens are - precisely because they KNOW that every law is dangerous to the fabric and validity of our nations' US Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

If you study the Bill of Rights, they are specific, not open to negotiation or change. The first 5 rights were written so that citizens could protect themselves from an oppressive government. Those rights did not come from government. They came with one's birth. If government did not give the rights, government has no business trying to negate them. Every law that waters down any of the first 5 Bill of Rights is truly an unconstitutional law and an illegal law. It doesn't matter what some court calls it. Intelligent people KNOW when they are being pi**ed on while someone else calls it rain.

It isn't that people love their guns and Bibles so much as intelligent people know to value their precious bill of rights which protect both their guns and their Bibles, not to mention their privacy. We have people in Congress, for goodness sake, and a President, who call for severe limitations on the Bill of Rights. Our rights are harming no one, so what could be the rationale, other than political advantage for desecrating the Bill of Rights - which, BTW, makes our government look SCARED of its citizens? Like they KNOW they have done something to make us dangerous to them.

In a nutshell, I get obstreperous when all Americans' freedoms are minimized in conversations, in law, in crowds, or in drawing rooms. I get that way because allowing ones freedoms to be willy-nilly destroyed is un-American. People fought and died for those protections and NO ONE has any right at all to minimize those rights. So, when I hear someone saying it's no big deal, what I would like to do is shake them until what passes for their brain rattles. When they give up THEIR rights, they are also giving up MY rights, and to be truthful, there are very few things worth fighting for. Our God given rights at birth happens to be the number one thing worth EVERY AMERICAN fighting for.

I have a feeling, no knowledge, that when you say liberal in your neighborhood, they assume you will gladly hand over your protective rights to a corrupt government who will then bash you over the head with those very rights. Most people still think of liberals as democrats, and most democrats are NOT liberals these days, but are socialists. I find it surprising that you probably vote with them.

I voted republican for 50 years, then decided they were too weak-kneed for me. I wanted to vote for people who had the same respect for the Constitution and the Bill of Rights that I have - finding them in the Democrat Party is impossible. Finding them in the Republican Party is almost impossible. Libertarians grasp and respect freedoms. That's where I am now.

Again, thanks for a beautiful response. I sincerely hope you will dwell on my words. I'm not the best at word usage, but I know what I think and why I think it. I love people, but that love dissipates quickly when I get the feeling they want to destroy things I find most important in life.
Ciao ~ :thumbup: :thumbup:

Tasine Loc: Southwest US

Quite well said, Nancy. I totally agree with you. People who have values, decent values, and who live by those values, should NOT, in my view, "adapt" to decadence, to crime, to unhealthy and raunchy sex, crime, etc. Why should ANYONE want to adapt to what our world is becoming? I think we should be doing the exact opposite. Isn't adapting to decadence what brought Troy down? Isn't it what brings most empires down? Frankly I think it is asking a lot of good people to even tolerate what our society has become.

Floyd Brown Loc: Milwaukee WI

All in all I enjoyed your post.

cant beleve Loc: Planet Kolob

Great job my friend! :thumbup:

BigMike Loc: yerington nv

I believe that 90% of what Americans disagree on stems from our fiscal policy.

BigMike Loc: yerington nv

:thumbup:

BigMike Loc: yerington nv

There was a vicious short film that was part of public school cirriculum called "The Lottery". Basically, it called into question core beliefs. Now look where our young people are! I'm with Tasine. I don't need right and wrong explained or redefined. That's what youth is for. Now I know that what I was told then was right. In fact, now I know why it's right. I still do things contrary to my own core beliefs, and I'll compromise when I can, because I'm told by the Author of those core beliefs to live at peace with everyone as far as it is up to me.

grace scott

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

This does not do your comments justice, but at this hour it's the best I can do.

rumitoid

If we asked every individual on this planet, "What is truth?" we would get the exact same answer: "It is what I believe." End of story for far too many. Others (too few?) leave room for not just question and doubt, but possible change. Are they "fence-sitters"? Are they "weak"? Are they a "threat"?

No circle or group or organization likes or trusts a person with an open mind, where conformity is a total non-issue and truth the only real value. Intellectuals are the first to go in totalitarian states. So are books. And look what happens when a more, such as personal space, is violated: we naturally assume a mental disorder, ill-breeding, or plain stupidity is the root. But what if they are from India?

An ugly and startling example of mores gone awry was at Pakistani checkpoints. US military thought a palm held up was an unquestionable symbol of stop. Wrong. To Pakistanis, this was more like hello or welcome and they would drive into a hail of bullets for a "failure to comply to clear instructions to stop."

Ricktloml

I am with you all the way. There is absolutely nothing wrong with simplicity, as liberals have complicated everything and then demanded that everyone must adhere to their endless adjustments that result in less freedom, less civility, less everything that is right, and more whatever they think will do at the moment. Core beliefs as you sad are not open for change unless you don't have them to begin with. We should all boldly stand up for what is right, not question whether right exists or not

rumitoid

Those "communists" suggested many thing that became part of American society and believed today to be wholly American. Yet these people were beaten, harassed, killed, imprisoned, and persecuted by not just our government but we the people, who later benefited greatly from many of their ideas.

Women and workers suffered terribly in this country since its inception. The principles of communism, some of which fit perfectly with our American ideals of equality and unalienable rights given by the Creator, did not look pretty, tolerable, or acceptable in Marxist phraseology, so these principles and those that embraced them were anathema. Pity we are so blind and prejudiced.

Floyd Brown Loc: Milwaukee WI

I agree that most of our problems are about money.

Where it comes from & where it goes.

Having been on this planet spanning parts of 2 decades & all of 7 decades. the only real problem is how the income gap as grown all out of proportion. Having less was not much of a problem for most of the time because the gap was small.

At one time the American Dream seemed to be in reach of many. That is not the case any more.

The Dream for some is to have the biggest house & most toys.

The Dream for the rest is a roof over their head & food on the table.

It seems that many from the second group feel that it is just fine to support a system that is enlarging the gap.

Lets go back in time a bit to make it a bit simpler.

Lets say one person says lets go to the woods & pick things to sell in town. Because it is your idea you will give me $1.00. So needing a dollar to buy some thing I says that would be okay.

Now let us say that that it sells $11.00.

Just play with the numbers a bit.

One person starts with $1.00 & the other with $10.00

Then each gets an in crease of 10%.
So after say each year the income would be.
$1.00 to 10.00 + $9.00
$1.10 to 11.00 + $9.90
$1.12 to 12.110 + $10.98

Just see that over time the gap in income just keeps growing.

Now take into account that the basic cost of living for each would stay much the same. Those leaving one with extra money to do other things.

Now lets say that I was me with the most.
How would you feel about that.

It is clear that it is much better for the person that gets more.

Now I say to my self why don't I go to the woods & just get the things & go to town to sell it.

Then I will find some one to go to the woods & give that person $2.00.

Just a little to think about.

BigMike Loc: yerington nv

You forgot lawyer's fees and court costs for the lengthy legal battles with environmentalist whackos before we even begin, after winning our argument in court, we pay for the permit now required to pick and gather in the woods. As an afterthought, we are required to sign a lease allowing us access to the woods where we have paid for a permit to gather from! Then, before we can sell the fruits of our labor in town we must buy a business license. Having exhausted the limited capital we had on lawyer's fees and court costs, we go to the BANK and take out a loan to pay for our business license. No problem! The government only wants $50 grand for the privelege of working to put food on the table in these "free" United States. We go to work, after clearing all these hurdles, and begin to make a little money. Then we are taxed on our profits. At some point it is determined that we should be required to buy insurance. Lobbiests for the insurance industry caught wind of our activities and put a bee in the bonnet of a Congressman. Damn! We purchase insurance and continue our gathering, but we're starting to think, "is this worth it"? Meanwhile, the environmentalist whackos have been busy. Their complaints have reached the ears of the EPA who unilaterally decide (because they can) that the rare mushroom which grows in the woods may need to be protected. A moratorium is placed on our activities until more "research" can be done. The Department of Agriculture, the BLM and the FDA join the fray. We go to court - again - arguing that we have covered this ground with a backhoe already, we paid for our permits, we paid for our lease, we paid for our business license, we paid for our insurance and all we want is to be left the hell alone to earn our living. Our lease is finite, and binding, we have bank loans out that we have to pay back with interst. "Sorry." we are told, "Now that the process has begun, certain steps have to be taken and the matter can't be expedited." The BANK has caught wind of our predicament and freezes our accounts, business and personal, until the matter is resolved. The IRS, tipped off by the BANK's activities, and our failure to make our lease payment puts a lien on our 401ks and audits us. We go belly up. For the next 24 months the IRS confiscates nearly everything we make. I say "nearly" because in order to continue putting food on the table we work 2 jobs. We wash dishes at a local restaurant, all of the wages from which we never see. That goes straight to the government. And, we work under the table for a local contractor who paints houses. That is our only living income. The BANK's losses, along with the losses of all the other BANKs are guaranteed to be covered by the government, who asks the Fed to purchase another $75 billion in Treasury bonds that month. Being a cooperative organization, the Fed complies, creating the money out of thin air. At that point, every other dollar in existance loses value. Every day Americans, who can't just create money out of thin air, find that the value of their savings has gone down and their wages have less purchasing power. I guess that money the Fed creates out of thin air comes from someplace after all!

There you have it! My thoughts on the reason for the growing income disparity in the US. If the Founders were here today, to see how government and the Oligarchy have managed to intrude in every aspect in the social and commercial lives of American citizens, would begin the Revolution all over again!

Ricktloml

You got that exactly backwards it was and is the leftist way, whether it be communism, socialism or any of the sister isms that result in totalitarianism that has resulted in beatings, harassment, murder, persecution, and imprisonment. These are the facts of history, but the left NEVER admits the basic evil that permeates this vile system, and NEVER ceases with the propaganda that pushes it on useful idiots.