Tasine wrote:
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You're right in that EVERYONE has something to contribute, and no one is stopping them from contributing. You seem to think there is no contribution if someone doesn't like the contribution.
I appreciate honesty, and that is what you are showing. Thank you. But I have fought the dark side for so many years over so many issues that I am tired of explaining the obvious, tired of listening to whining, tired of hearing how wonderful collectivism is, tired of hearing how much damage Christianity does, tried of the lie about how terrible it is that Americans can have guns, tired of the Bill of Rights being ravaged from stem to stern - ALL for the bad, tired of listening to so many lies, tired of being jerked around by people without enough brain cells to come in out of the rain. I'm mad and since I am mad for damned good reason, I cannot fathom why it is always the ones on the right who somehow must change..........no one on the left has ever considered changing. Now I have become as obstreperous as they are, simply from dealing with them.
I have tried and tried and tried again to reason with the political left. It cannot be done - UNLESS you are prepared to give up all your priorities so that the left can be comfortable and is allowed to WIN. There are two Americas. I've finally accepted that. Actually I can live with that. There is America and there is America sorta. I live in America. The left lives in America sorta. I don't give a hang what they do in their bedroom or in their privacy. I don't nag them to become Christian. I don't bug them about guns or church. I don't nag them about ANYTHING except their determination to make America FAR worse than they can imagine it can be.
Am I hard headed? Of course I am, and I have very little use for wishy washy people. People either live by principles or they doodle through each day. I am a principle person. I don't care if others are principled or doodlers UNTIL their doodling affects ME or my country. THEN is when I become obstreperous, and will probably continue doing so until my death. You chastise me but you do it nicely. Have you considered chastising those who bug ME?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ br You're right in that EVERY... (
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Where to start, where to start...perhaps with those pesky contributions...contributions are only contributions "if" they are accepted, if they are seen as having merit. If we cross off all the offered up opinions on OPP that have been dismissed as "crazy, moronic, irresponsible, immature, lies, distortions of the truth on both sides..." in my opinion, not a lot of contributions would be considered valid contributions. I hope you get what I'm trying to say. Having difficulty this evening with my communication skills -- got accidentally slammed to the ground by a llama -- right after I read your post the first time.
It may be a little of which came first, the chicken or the egg, but which side do you think started the "you gotta change, no, YOU gotta change?" It seems to have become a self perpetuating cycle. You know, on my very first day when I gave my "perky" shout out stating I am a middle of the road liberal, I was shocked at the reaction -- the vitriol I encountered, not the civilized discourse I was hoping for. It was more or less the same reaction I encountered in my rural community if I "dared" to declare I had a liberal bone in my body. A sane person would have just hit the delete button, never to view OPP again, but while there is a small chance that I am considered sane, there is a bigger possibility that I am extremely stubborn and so I kept coming back even when people were rude beyond belief because I wanted to understand, I NEEDED to understand why "I" even in my rural community was looked on with contempt. The individuals who were the loudest in their condemnation of me on OPP, and they didn't even know me "yet", were from the right, far right maybe? It doesn't matter. I just refused to fling their rudeness back...most of the time. You see, I truly understand your feeling of being under attack, and how tired of it you are, that the values you hold closest to your heart, are seen by some as nonsense, and how tired you are of having to constantly defend and justify how you feel. I feel the same way. I don't believe I have seen you quite like this before -- with your heart SO on your sleeve. It may not seem like it to you, but the "America sorta", the "real" liberals, not the media driven liberals, but the "others",many who go to church, raise their children to have decent, solid values, wishes the same things you do for the country. Maybe their thinking is wired a little differently than yours, but they don't wish for this country to be torn to shreds, particularly from within.
I get your frustration totally, and your anger. I respect your urge to give certain folks a thump on the noggin. However, the fact is, anger begets anger. We start to become familiar with the way certain individuals think and they become familiar with the way we think. Attitudes become entrenched and no one hears ANYBODY because they have already made the decision that the other person has no idea that could possibly be even remotely accurate because they believe they already know EXACTLY how the other thinks. I came to this site a liberal who wanted to understand, who wanted to communicate, and find common ground and what I feel I stumbled upon are two entrenched groups -- neither of whom wish to give a millimeter. I "have" noticed that you don't preach, by the way, something I appreciate, but I suspect because of the passion you feel, it comes across that way sometimes. I hope I don't preach either. Of course, as I key, I come to the sudden realization that somehow (don't exactly know how I got here) I am up on my soap box. :roll: :oops: There are certain individuals on this forum, just like the ones we encounter outside the cyber world, who make the trees difficult to be seen in the forest. They make an awful lot of noise, but it is funny that I have heard the comment made twice lately, one from the right and one from the left, that their sometimes outrageous remarks do not exactly portray how they "really" feel. Well, if they don't feel that way, they shouldn't put it out there that they do. It reflects badly and gives both you and me a bad name and makes it difficult to be heard.
I don't frequent a lot of threads these days because of the caustic atmosphere. You are far braver than I. However, "if" I should pop in for a visit and find you are being outrageously attacked, count on me to "gently suggest" that the poster "might" want to think about how they are communicating. By the way, I truly thank YOU for your honesty. That's where it all begins. :wink: