Men in history that we admire--and shouldn't! We are all flawed human beings, none is perfect. So can any one of us rightly point a finger, cast the first stone? Hell, yes! Not to do...

rumitoid

We are all flawed human beings, none is perfect. So can any one of us rightly point a finger, cast the first stone? Hell, yes! Not to do so is madness. Teachers, judges, mates, friends, family, pastors, Twitter, neighbors and political parties do it ceaselessly. Why? Because it may instruct how to live right, be successful, avoid problems, solve problems, avoid pain, gain happiness, etc. It is also good for venting. Pointing out error is only self-righteous when we believe ourselves to be above that error. We may be talking because of that error, experience.

First person on the list: Do you think what Thomas Jefferson did for America outweighs what he did against slaves? Is it anti-American to bring this up? Should we as patriots gloss over or lie about his egregious acts towards slavery and slaves?

Charge #1: Jefferson repeatedly slept with one of his slaves, Sally Hemings, and fathered several of her children. When someone is a slave, it can't exactly be considered consensual.

#2: He also actively opposed any effort to mitigate slavery, strongly opposing an 1819 Missouri statehood application on the grounds that it banned domestic slave importation and freed slaves at the age of 25.

#3: His friend and fellow American Revolutionary Tadeusz Kościuszko left his estate to Jefferson with the instruction that all of Kościuszko's money — at no cost to Jefferson himself — be used to purchase and free slaves, Jefferson, uh...didn't.

#4: all this taken together paints a dastardly picture of Jefferson that I feel far outweighs his place of respected Founding Father.
https://rewind.topix.net/article/20345/s8?tr=recirc/recirc-bottom-click/20423//20345//

Yes, I know the feeble excuse that slavery was an accepted practice at that time--by a few. Many opposed slavery and that had been true for centuries. The utter wrongness of it was also known for centuries, but ignored by the likes of Jefferson and the South out of greed.

On the list is Columbus, MLK jr., FDR, Gandhi, Thomas Edison, Lindbergh, "Che" Guevara, Mother Teresa, and Winston Churchill. Or just read that for yourself as https://rewind.topix.net/article/20345/s8?tr=recirc/recirc-bottom-click/20423//20345//

Peewee Loc: San Antonio, TX

rumitoid wrote:

We are all flawed human beings, none is perfect. So can any one of us rightly point a finger, cast the first stone? Hell, yes! Not to do so is madness. Teachers, judges, mates, friends, family, pastors, Twitter, neighbors and political parties do it ceaselessly. Why? Because it may instruct how to live right, be successful, avoid problems, solve problems, avoid pain, gain happiness, etc. It is also good for venting. Pointing out error is only self-righteous when we believe ourselves to be above that error. We may be talking because of that error, experience.

First person on the list: Do you think what Thomas Jefferson did for America outweighs what he did against slaves? Is it anti-American to bring this up? Should we as patriots gloss over or lie about his egregious acts towards slavery and slaves?

Charge #1: Jefferson repeatedly slept with one of his slaves, Sally Hemings, and fathered several of her children. When someone is a slave, it can't exactly be considered consensual.

#2: He also actively opposed any effort to mitigate slavery, strongly opposing an 1819 Missouri statehood application on the grounds that it banned domestic slave importation and freed slaves at the age of 25.

#3: His friend and fellow American Revolutionary Tadeusz Kościuszko left his estate to Jefferson with the instruction that all of Kościuszko's money — at no cost to Jefferson himself — be used to purchase and free slaves, Jefferson, uh...didn't.

#4: all this taken together paints a dastardly picture of Jefferson that I feel far outweighs his place of respected Founding Father.
https://rewind.topix.net/article/20345/s8?tr=recirc/recirc-bottom-click/20423//20345//

Yes, I know the feeble excuse that slavery was an accepted practice at that time--by a few. Many opposed slavery and that had been true for centuries. The utter wrongness of it was also known for centuries, but ignored by the likes of Jefferson and the South out of greed.

On the list is Columbus, MLK jr., FDR, Gandhi, Thomas Edison, Lindbergh, "Che" Guevara, Mother Teresa, and Winston Churchill. Or just read that for yourself as https://rewind.topix.net/article/20345/s8?tr=recirc/recirc-bottom-click/20423//20345//

We are all flawed human beings, none is perfect. S... (show quote)

There is a song you should listen to.

https://youtu.be/F6M2YuAVxuQ

rumitoid

Peewee wrote:

There is a song you should listen to.

https://youtu.be/F6M2YuAVxuQ

Not a big fan of country music but I get your point. However, what he is doing is torturing himself about the past; that is not the point of this thread. It is to reveal the truth of history to learn to put each life in proper perspective.

(Sorry, have to ask you: how can you stand listening to that stuff? Try some Chopin.)

Peewee Loc: San Antonio, TX

rumitoid wrote:

Not a big fan of country music but I get your point. However, what he is doing is torturing himself about the past; that is not the point of this thread. It is to reveal the truth of history to learn to put each life in proper perspective.

(Sorry, have to ask you: how can you stand listening to that stuff? Try some Chopin.)

I like most everything except heavy metal and rap. Give this guy a listen, I think he is one of the best singers ever.

https://youtu.be/WwA774p5CRE

https://youtu.be/64dG43nuwKQ

archie bunker Loc: Texas

rumitoid wrote:

We are all flawed human beings, none is perfect. So can any one of us rightly point a finger, cast the first stone? Hell, yes! Not to do so is madness. Teachers, judges, mates, friends, family, pastors, Twitter, neighbors and political parties do it ceaselessly. Why? Because it may instruct how to live right, be successful, avoid problems, solve problems, avoid pain, gain happiness, etc. It is also good for venting. Pointing out error is only self-righteous when we believe ourselves to be above that error. We may be talking because of that error, experience.

First person on the list: Do you think what Thomas Jefferson did for America outweighs what he did against slaves? Is it anti-American to bring this up? Should we as patriots gloss over or lie about his egregious acts towards slavery and slaves?

Charge #1: Jefferson repeatedly slept with one of his slaves, Sally Hemings, and fathered several of her children. When someone is a slave, it can't exactly be considered consensual.

#2: He also actively opposed any effort to mitigate slavery, strongly opposing an 1819 Missouri statehood application on the grounds that it banned domestic slave importation and freed slaves at the age of 25.

#3: His friend and fellow American Revolutionary Tadeusz Kościuszko left his estate to Jefferson with the instruction that all of Kościuszko's money — at no cost to Jefferson himself — be used to purchase and free slaves, Jefferson, uh...didn't.

#4: all this taken together paints a dastardly picture of Jefferson that I feel far outweighs his place of respected Founding Father.
https://rewind.topix.net/article/20345/s8?tr=recirc/recirc-bottom-click/20423//20345//

Yes, I know the feeble excuse that slavery was an accepted practice at that time--by a few. Many opposed slavery and that had been true for centuries. The utter wrongness of it was also known for centuries, but ignored by the likes of Jefferson and the South out of greed.

On the list is Columbus, MLK jr., FDR, Gandhi, Thomas Edison, Lindbergh, "Che" Guevara, Mother Teresa, and Winston Churchill. Or just read that for yourself as https://rewind.topix.net/article/20345/s8?tr=recirc/recirc-bottom-click/20423//20345//

We are all flawed human beings, none is perfect. S... (show quote)

Here's a song for you. Seems fitting.

https://youtu.be/OdYGnAFaeHU

Peewee Loc: San Antonio, TX

archie bunker wrote:

Here's a song for you. Seems fitting.

https://youtu.be/OdYGnAFaeHU

Have you been peeking at my favorites list?

Great taste Arch!

Parky60 Loc: People's Republic of Illinois

rumitoid wrote:

We are all flawed human beings, none is perfect. So can any one of us rightly point a finger, cast the first stone? Hell, yes! Not to do so is madness. Teachers, judges, mates, friends, family, pastors, Twitter, neighbors and political parties do it ceaselessly. Why? Because it may instruct how to live right, be successful, avoid problems, solve problems, avoid pain, gain happiness, etc. It is also good for venting. Pointing out error is only self-righteous when we believe ourselves to be above that error. We may be talking because of that error, experience.

First person on the list: Do you think what Thomas Jefferson did for America outweighs what he did against slaves? Is it anti-American to bring this up? Should we as patriots gloss over or lie about his egregious acts towards slavery and slaves?

Charge #1: Jefferson repeatedly slept with one of his slaves, Sally Hemings, and fathered several of her children. When someone is a slave, it can't exactly be considered consensual.

#2: He also actively opposed any effort to mitigate slavery, strongly opposing an 1819 Missouri statehood application on the grounds that it banned domestic slave importation and freed slaves at the age of 25.

#3: His friend and fellow American Revolutionary Tadeusz Kościuszko left his estate to Jefferson with the instruction that all of Kościuszko's money — at no cost to Jefferson himself — be used to purchase and free slaves, Jefferson, uh...didn't.

#4: all this taken together paints a dastardly picture of Jefferson that I feel far outweighs his place of respected Founding Father.
https://rewind.topix.net/article/20345/s8?tr=recirc/recirc-bottom-click/20423//20345//

Yes, I know the feeble excuse that slavery was an accepted practice at that time--by a few. Many opposed slavery and that had been true for centuries. The utter wrongness of it was also known for centuries, but ignored by the likes of Jefferson and the South out of greed.

On the list is Columbus, MLK jr., FDR, Gandhi, Thomas Edison, Lindbergh, "Che" Guevara, Mother Teresa, and Winston Churchill. Or just read that for yourself as https://rewind.topix.net/article/20345/s8?tr=recirc/recirc-bottom-click/20423//20345//

We are all flawed human beings, none is perfect. S... (show quote)

I see that you're throwing the first stone...and the second...and the third...and the fourth...

rumitoid

Parky60 wrote:

I see that you're throwing the first stone...and the second...and the third...and the fourth...

Helpful to live in a quarry.

rumitoid

archie bunker wrote:

Here's a song for you. Seems fitting.

https://youtu.be/OdYGnAFaeHU

Thank you. Fun song, fun movie, the only one I like with Clooney.

rumitoid

rumitoid wrote:

Thank you. Fun song, fun movie, the only one I like with Clooney.

Here is my favorite. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMbvcp480Y4 I see the whole history of mankind and our everyday life in this mournful and joyous composition. All of life. Triumphs and failures, love and losses, hope and disappointment.

rumitoid

Peewee wrote:

I like most everything except heavy metal and rap. Give this guy a listen, I think he is one of the best singers ever.

https://youtu.be/WwA774p5CRE

https://youtu.be/64dG43nuwKQ

This my favorite Peewee. All of life is captured in it to me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMbvcp480Y4 I see the whole history of mankind and our everyday life in this mournful and joyous composition. All of life. Triumphs and failures, love and losses, hope and disappointment.

rumitoid

rumitoid wrote:

Not a big fan of country music but I get your point. However, what he is doing is torturing himself about the past; that is not the point of this thread. It is to reveal the truth of history to learn to put each life in proper perspective.

(Sorry, have to ask you: how can you stand listening to that stuff? Try some Chopin.)

I have to amend what I said about country music. Crazy in love with Patsy Cline. No explanation.

Peewee Loc: San Antonio, TX

rumitoid wrote:

This my favorite Peewee. All of life is captured in it to me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMbvcp480Y4 I see the whole history of mankind and our everyday life in this mournful and joyous composition. All of life. Triumphs and failures, love and losses, hope and disappointment.

Listen to it often and it stirs the soul. But throw in Lara Fabian's voice once in a while.

I can't read a note of music and can only play 'Mary had a little Lamb' on the piano but I love good music and know it when I hear it.

rumitoid

Peewee wrote:

Listen to it often and it stirs the soul. But throw in Lara Fabian's voice once in a while.

I can't read a note of music and can only play 'Mary had a little Lamb' on the piano but I love good music and know it when I hear it.

You are a good and funny guy. Here is another, which for various reasons you may not appreciate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oZN2eTgvVs It stirs my soul.

bahmer

Peewee wrote:

There is a song you should listen to.

https://youtu.be/F6M2YuAVxuQ

That is an excellent song there Peewee and very applicable to the situation at hand.