Purgatory: . . . What Protestant Fundamentalists Fail to Understand
Dec 13, 2018 13:12:54 #
Purgatory: What Protestant Fundamentalists Don’t care to Understand. (Part 1)
https://www.catholic.com/tract/purgatory
The Catechism of the Catholic Church defines purgatory as a "purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven," which is experienced by those "who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified.”
(CCC 1030)
It notes that "this final purification of the elect . . . is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.”
(CCC 1031) The purification is necessary because, as Scripture teaches, nothing unclean will enter the presence of God in heaven.
(Rev. 21:27)
And, while we may die with our mortal sins forgiven, there can still be many impurities in us.
Specifically venial sins and the temporal punishment due to sins already forgiven.
Two Judgments
When we die, we undergo what is called the particular, or individual, judgment.
Scripture says that "it is appointed for men to die once, and after that comes judgment.”
(Heb. 9:27)
We are judged instantly and receive our reward, for good or ill.
We know at once what our final destiny will be.
At the end of time, when Jesus returns, there will come the general judgment to which the Bible refers, for example, in .
Matthew 25:31-32:
"When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.
Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats."
In this general judgment all our sins will be publicly revealed.
(Luke 12:2–5) Augustine said, in The City of God,
That "temporary punishments are suffered by some in this life only, by others after death, by others both now and then;
But all of them before that last and strictest judgment.”
(Luke 21:13).
It is between the particular and general judgments, then, that the soul is purified of the remaining consequences of sin:
"I tell you, you will never get out till you have paid the very last copper.”
(Luke 12:59).
Money, Money, Money
One argument anti-Catholics often use to attack purgatory is the idea that the Catholic Church makes money from promulgating the doctrine.
Without purgatory, the claim asserts, the Church would go broke.
Any number of anti-Catholic books claim the Church owes the majority of its wealth to this doctrine.
But the numbers just don’t add up. When a Catholic requests a memorial Mass for the dead—that is, a Mass said for the benefit of someone in purgatory—
It is customary to give the parish priest a stipend, on the principles that the laborer is worth his hire.
(Luke 10:7)
And that those who preside at the altar share the altar’s offerings. (1 Cor. 9:13–14).
In the United States, a stipend is commonly around five dollars;
But the indigent do not have to pay anything.
A few people, of course, freely offer more.
This money goes to the parish priest, and priests are only allowed to receive one such stipend per day.
No one gets rich on five dollars a day, and certainly not the Church, which does not receive the money anyway. But look at what happens on a Sunday.
There are often hundreds of people at Mass.
In a crowded parish, there may be thousands.
Many families and individuals deposit five dollars or more into the collection basket;
Others deposit less.
A few give much more.
A parish might have four or five or six Masses on a Sunday.
The total from the Sunday collections far surpasses the paltry amount received from the memorial Masses.
A Catholic "Invention"?
Fundamentalists may be fond of saying the Catholic Church "invented" the doctrine of purgatory to make money,
But they have difficulty saying just when.
Most professional anti-Catholics—
The ones who make their living attacking “Romanism"—
Seem to place the blame on Pope Gregory the Great, who reigned from A.D. 590–604. But that hardly accounts for the request of Monica, mother of Augustine, who asked her son, in the fourth century, to remember her soul in his Masses.
This would make no sense if she thought her soul would not benefit from prayers, as would be the case if she were in hell or in the full glory of heaven. Nor does ascribing the doctrine to Gregory explain the graffiti in the catacombs.
Where Christians during the persecutions of the first three centuries recorded prayers for the dead.
Indeed, some of the earliest Christian writings outside the New Testament,
Like the Acts of Paul and Thecla and the Martyrdom of Perpetua and Felicity (both written during the second century),
Refer to the Christian practice of praying for the dead.
Such prayers would have been offered only if Christians believed in purgatory,
Even if they did not use that name for it.
(See Catholic Answers’ Fathers Know Best tract
The Roots of Purgatory for quotations from these and other early Christian sources.)
Why No Protests?
Whenever a date is set for the "invention" of purgatory.
You can point to historical evidence to show the doctrine was in existence before that date.
Besides, if at some point the doctrine was pulled out of a clerical hat, why does ecclesiastical history record no protest against it ? A study of the history of doctrines indicates that Christians in the first centuries were up in arms.
(Sometimes quite literally) if anyone suggested the least change in beliefs.
They were extremely conservative people who tested a doctrine’s truth by asking, Was this believed by our ancestors ?
Was it handed on from the apostles?
Surely belief in purgatory would be considered a great change, if it had not been believed from the first—
So where are the records of protests?
They don’t exist.
There is no hint at all, in the oldest writings available to us.
(Or in later ones, for that matter), that "true believers" in the immediate post-apostolic years spoke of purgatory as a novel doctrine.
They must have understood that the oral teaching of the apostles, what Catholics call tradition.
And the Bible not only failed to contradict the doctrine, but, in fact, confirmed it.
It is no wonder, then, that those who deny the existence of purgatory tend to touch upon only briefly the history of the belief.
They prefer to claim that the Bible speaks only of heaven and hell.
Wrong.
It speaks plainly of a third condition, commonly called the limbo of the Fathers.
Where the just who had died before the redemption were waiting for heaven to be opened to them.
After his death and before his resurrection, Christ visited those experiencing the limbo of the Fathers and preached to them the good news that heaven would now be opened to them.
(1 Pet. 3:19).
These people thus were not in heaven, but neither were they experiencing the torments of hell. Some have speculated that the limbo of the Fathers is the same as purgatory.
This may or may not be the case.
However, even if the limbo of the Fathers is not purgatory,
It’s existence shows that a temporary, intermediate state is not contrary to Scripture.
Look at it this way.
If the limbo of the Fathers was purgatory.
Then this one verse directly teaches the existence of purgatory.
If the limbo of the Fathers was a different temporary state, then the Bible at least says such a state can exist.
It proves there can be more than just heaven and hell.
"Purgatory Not in Scripture"
Some Fundamentalists also charge, as though it actually proved something,
"The word purgatory is nowhere found in Scripture."
This is true, and yet it does not disprove the existence of purgatory or the fact that belief in it has always been part of Church teaching.
The words Trinity and Incarnation aren’t in Scripture either.
Yet those doctrines are clearly taught in it.
Likewise, Scripture teaches that purgatory exists, even if it doesn’t use that word and even if.
1 Peter 3:19 refers to a place other than purgatory.
Christ refers to the sinner who "will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.”
(Matthew 12:32)
Suggesting that one can be freed after death of the consequences of one’s sins.
Similarly, Paul tells us that, when we are judged, each man’s work will be tried.
And what happens if a righteous man’s work fails the test?
"He will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.”
(1 Corinthians 3:15).
Now this loss, this penalty, can’t refer to consignment to hell, since no one is saved there;
And heaven can’t be meant, since there is no suffering ("fire") there.
The Catholic doctrine of purgatory alone explains this passage.
Then, of course, there is the Bible’s approval of prayers for the dead:
"In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view;
(End Part 1)
https://www.catholic.com/tract/purgatory
The Catechism of the Catholic Church defines purgatory as a "purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven," which is experienced by those "who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified.”
(CCC 1030)
It notes that "this final purification of the elect . . . is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.”
(CCC 1031) The purification is necessary because, as Scripture teaches, nothing unclean will enter the presence of God in heaven.
(Rev. 21:27)
And, while we may die with our mortal sins forgiven, there can still be many impurities in us.
Specifically venial sins and the temporal punishment due to sins already forgiven.
Two Judgments
When we die, we undergo what is called the particular, or individual, judgment.
Scripture says that "it is appointed for men to die once, and after that comes judgment.”
(Heb. 9:27)
We are judged instantly and receive our reward, for good or ill.
We know at once what our final destiny will be.
At the end of time, when Jesus returns, there will come the general judgment to which the Bible refers, for example, in .
Matthew 25:31-32:
"When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.
Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats."
In this general judgment all our sins will be publicly revealed.
(Luke 12:2–5) Augustine said, in The City of God,
That "temporary punishments are suffered by some in this life only, by others after death, by others both now and then;
But all of them before that last and strictest judgment.”
(Luke 21:13).
It is between the particular and general judgments, then, that the soul is purified of the remaining consequences of sin:
"I tell you, you will never get out till you have paid the very last copper.”
(Luke 12:59).
Money, Money, Money
One argument anti-Catholics often use to attack purgatory is the idea that the Catholic Church makes money from promulgating the doctrine.
Without purgatory, the claim asserts, the Church would go broke.
Any number of anti-Catholic books claim the Church owes the majority of its wealth to this doctrine.
But the numbers just don’t add up. When a Catholic requests a memorial Mass for the dead—that is, a Mass said for the benefit of someone in purgatory—
It is customary to give the parish priest a stipend, on the principles that the laborer is worth his hire.
(Luke 10:7)
And that those who preside at the altar share the altar’s offerings. (1 Cor. 9:13–14).
In the United States, a stipend is commonly around five dollars;
But the indigent do not have to pay anything.
A few people, of course, freely offer more.
This money goes to the parish priest, and priests are only allowed to receive one such stipend per day.
No one gets rich on five dollars a day, and certainly not the Church, which does not receive the money anyway. But look at what happens on a Sunday.
There are often hundreds of people at Mass.
In a crowded parish, there may be thousands.
Many families and individuals deposit five dollars or more into the collection basket;
Others deposit less.
A few give much more.
A parish might have four or five or six Masses on a Sunday.
The total from the Sunday collections far surpasses the paltry amount received from the memorial Masses.
A Catholic "Invention"?
Fundamentalists may be fond of saying the Catholic Church "invented" the doctrine of purgatory to make money,
But they have difficulty saying just when.
Most professional anti-Catholics—
The ones who make their living attacking “Romanism"—
Seem to place the blame on Pope Gregory the Great, who reigned from A.D. 590–604. But that hardly accounts for the request of Monica, mother of Augustine, who asked her son, in the fourth century, to remember her soul in his Masses.
This would make no sense if she thought her soul would not benefit from prayers, as would be the case if she were in hell or in the full glory of heaven. Nor does ascribing the doctrine to Gregory explain the graffiti in the catacombs.
Where Christians during the persecutions of the first three centuries recorded prayers for the dead.
Indeed, some of the earliest Christian writings outside the New Testament,
Like the Acts of Paul and Thecla and the Martyrdom of Perpetua and Felicity (both written during the second century),
Refer to the Christian practice of praying for the dead.
Such prayers would have been offered only if Christians believed in purgatory,
Even if they did not use that name for it.
(See Catholic Answers’ Fathers Know Best tract
The Roots of Purgatory for quotations from these and other early Christian sources.)
Why No Protests?
Whenever a date is set for the "invention" of purgatory.
You can point to historical evidence to show the doctrine was in existence before that date.
Besides, if at some point the doctrine was pulled out of a clerical hat, why does ecclesiastical history record no protest against it ? A study of the history of doctrines indicates that Christians in the first centuries were up in arms.
(Sometimes quite literally) if anyone suggested the least change in beliefs.
They were extremely conservative people who tested a doctrine’s truth by asking, Was this believed by our ancestors ?
Was it handed on from the apostles?
Surely belief in purgatory would be considered a great change, if it had not been believed from the first—
So where are the records of protests?
They don’t exist.
There is no hint at all, in the oldest writings available to us.
(Or in later ones, for that matter), that "true believers" in the immediate post-apostolic years spoke of purgatory as a novel doctrine.
They must have understood that the oral teaching of the apostles, what Catholics call tradition.
And the Bible not only failed to contradict the doctrine, but, in fact, confirmed it.
It is no wonder, then, that those who deny the existence of purgatory tend to touch upon only briefly the history of the belief.
They prefer to claim that the Bible speaks only of heaven and hell.
Wrong.
It speaks plainly of a third condition, commonly called the limbo of the Fathers.
Where the just who had died before the redemption were waiting for heaven to be opened to them.
After his death and before his resurrection, Christ visited those experiencing the limbo of the Fathers and preached to them the good news that heaven would now be opened to them.
(1 Pet. 3:19).
These people thus were not in heaven, but neither were they experiencing the torments of hell. Some have speculated that the limbo of the Fathers is the same as purgatory.
This may or may not be the case.
However, even if the limbo of the Fathers is not purgatory,
It’s existence shows that a temporary, intermediate state is not contrary to Scripture.
Look at it this way.
If the limbo of the Fathers was purgatory.
Then this one verse directly teaches the existence of purgatory.
If the limbo of the Fathers was a different temporary state, then the Bible at least says such a state can exist.
It proves there can be more than just heaven and hell.
"Purgatory Not in Scripture"
Some Fundamentalists also charge, as though it actually proved something,
"The word purgatory is nowhere found in Scripture."
This is true, and yet it does not disprove the existence of purgatory or the fact that belief in it has always been part of Church teaching.
The words Trinity and Incarnation aren’t in Scripture either.
Yet those doctrines are clearly taught in it.
Likewise, Scripture teaches that purgatory exists, even if it doesn’t use that word and even if.
1 Peter 3:19 refers to a place other than purgatory.
Christ refers to the sinner who "will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.”
(Matthew 12:32)
Suggesting that one can be freed after death of the consequences of one’s sins.
Similarly, Paul tells us that, when we are judged, each man’s work will be tried.
And what happens if a righteous man’s work fails the test?
"He will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.”
(1 Corinthians 3:15).
Now this loss, this penalty, can’t refer to consignment to hell, since no one is saved there;
And heaven can’t be meant, since there is no suffering ("fire") there.
The Catholic doctrine of purgatory alone explains this passage.
Then, of course, there is the Bible’s approval of prayers for the dead:
"In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view;
(End Part 1)
Dec 13, 2018 13:13:35 #
Purgatory: What Protestant Fundamentalists Don’t care to Understand. (Part 2)
https://www.catholic.com/tract/purgatory
For if he were not expecting the dead to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death.
But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought.
Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin.”
(2 Macc. 12:43–45)
Prayers are not needed by those in heaven, and no one can help those in hell.
That means some people must be in a third condition, at least temporarily.
This verse so clearly illustrates the existence of purgatory that.
The time of the Reformation, Protestants had to cut the books of the Maccabees out of their Bibles in order to avoid accepting the doctrine.
Prayers for the dead and the consequent doctrine of purgatory have been part of the true religion since before the time of Christ.
Not only can we show it was practiced by the Jews of the time of the Maccabees.
But it has even been retained by Orthodox Jews today, who recite a prayer known as the Mourner’s Kaddish for eleven months after the death of a loved one so that the loved one may be purified.
It was not the Catholic Church that added the doctrine of purgatory.
Rather, any change in the original teaching has taken place in the Protestant churches.
Which rejected a doctrine that had always been believed by Jews and Christians.
Why Go To Purgatory?
Why would anyone go to purgatory?
To be cleansed, for "nothing unclean shall enter [heaven].”
(Revelations 21:27)
Anyone who has not been completely freed of sin and its effects is, to some extent, "unclean."
Through repentance he may have gained the grace needed to be worthy of heaven, which is to say, he has been forgiven and his soul is spiritually alive.
But that’s not sufficient for gaining entrance into heaven.
He needs to be cleansed completely. Fundamentalists claim, as an article in Jimmy Swaggart’s magazine, The Evangelist,
Put it, that "Scripture clearly reveals that all the demands of divine justice on the sinner have been completely fulfilled in Jesus Christ.
It also reveals that Christ has totally redeemed, or purchased back, that which was lost.
The advocates of a purgatory (and the necessity of prayer for the dead) say, in effect, that the redemption of Christ was incomplete. . . .
It has all been done for us by Jesus Christ, there is nothing to be added or done by man." It is entirely correct to say that Christ accomplished all of our salvation for us on the cross.
But that does not settle the question of how this redemption is applied to us.
Scripture reveals that it is applied to us over the course of time through, among other things, the process of sanctification through which the Christian is made holy.
Sanctification involves suffering.
(Romans 5:3–5), and purgatory is the final stage of sanctification that some of us need to undergo before we enter heaven.
Purgatory is the final phase of Christ’s applying to us the purifying redemption that he accomplished for us by his death on the cross.
No Contradiction
The Fundamentalist resistance to the biblical doctrine of purgatory
Presumes there is a contradiction between Christ’s redeeming us on the cross and the process by which we are sanctified.
There isn’t.
And a Fundamentalist cannot say that suffering in the final stage of sanctification.
Conflicts with the sufficiency of Christ’s atonement without saying that suffering in the early stages of sanctification also presents a similar conflict.
The Fundamentalist has it backward:
Our suffering in sanctification does not take away from the cross.
Rather, the cross produces our sanctification, which results in our suffering, because “[f]
Or the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant; later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness.”
(Hebrews 12:11)
Nothing Unclean
Purgatory makes sense because there is a requirement that a soul not just be declared to be clean.
But actually be clean, before a man may enter into eternal life.
After all, if a guilty soul is merely "covered," if its sinful state still exists but is officially ignored, then it is still a guilty soul.
It is still unclean.
Catholic theology takes seriously the notion that "nothing unclean shall enter heaven."
From this it is inferred that a less than cleansed soul, even if "covered,"
Remains a dirty soul and isn’t fit for heaven.
It needs to be cleansed or "purged" of its remaining imperfections.
The cleansing occurs in purgatory.
Indeed, the necessity of the purging is taught in other passages of Scripture, such as.
2 Thessalonians 2:13
Which declares that God chose us "to be saved through sanctification by the Spirit."
Sanctification is thus not an option, something that may or may not happen before one gets into heaven.
It is an absolute requirement, as.
Hebrews 12:14
States that we must strive "for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord."
(End Part 2)
https://www.catholic.com/tract/purgatory
For if he were not expecting the dead to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death.
But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought.
Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin.”
(2 Macc. 12:43–45)
Prayers are not needed by those in heaven, and no one can help those in hell.
That means some people must be in a third condition, at least temporarily.
This verse so clearly illustrates the existence of purgatory that.
The time of the Reformation, Protestants had to cut the books of the Maccabees out of their Bibles in order to avoid accepting the doctrine.
Prayers for the dead and the consequent doctrine of purgatory have been part of the true religion since before the time of Christ.
Not only can we show it was practiced by the Jews of the time of the Maccabees.
But it has even been retained by Orthodox Jews today, who recite a prayer known as the Mourner’s Kaddish for eleven months after the death of a loved one so that the loved one may be purified.
It was not the Catholic Church that added the doctrine of purgatory.
Rather, any change in the original teaching has taken place in the Protestant churches.
Which rejected a doctrine that had always been believed by Jews and Christians.
Why Go To Purgatory?
Why would anyone go to purgatory?
To be cleansed, for "nothing unclean shall enter [heaven].”
(Revelations 21:27)
Anyone who has not been completely freed of sin and its effects is, to some extent, "unclean."
Through repentance he may have gained the grace needed to be worthy of heaven, which is to say, he has been forgiven and his soul is spiritually alive.
But that’s not sufficient for gaining entrance into heaven.
He needs to be cleansed completely. Fundamentalists claim, as an article in Jimmy Swaggart’s magazine, The Evangelist,
Put it, that "Scripture clearly reveals that all the demands of divine justice on the sinner have been completely fulfilled in Jesus Christ.
It also reveals that Christ has totally redeemed, or purchased back, that which was lost.
The advocates of a purgatory (and the necessity of prayer for the dead) say, in effect, that the redemption of Christ was incomplete. . . .
It has all been done for us by Jesus Christ, there is nothing to be added or done by man." It is entirely correct to say that Christ accomplished all of our salvation for us on the cross.
But that does not settle the question of how this redemption is applied to us.
Scripture reveals that it is applied to us over the course of time through, among other things, the process of sanctification through which the Christian is made holy.
Sanctification involves suffering.
(Romans 5:3–5), and purgatory is the final stage of sanctification that some of us need to undergo before we enter heaven.
Purgatory is the final phase of Christ’s applying to us the purifying redemption that he accomplished for us by his death on the cross.
No Contradiction
The Fundamentalist resistance to the biblical doctrine of purgatory
Presumes there is a contradiction between Christ’s redeeming us on the cross and the process by which we are sanctified.
There isn’t.
And a Fundamentalist cannot say that suffering in the final stage of sanctification.
Conflicts with the sufficiency of Christ’s atonement without saying that suffering in the early stages of sanctification also presents a similar conflict.
The Fundamentalist has it backward:
Our suffering in sanctification does not take away from the cross.
Rather, the cross produces our sanctification, which results in our suffering, because “[f]
Or the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant; later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness.”
(Hebrews 12:11)
Nothing Unclean
Purgatory makes sense because there is a requirement that a soul not just be declared to be clean.
But actually be clean, before a man may enter into eternal life.
After all, if a guilty soul is merely "covered," if its sinful state still exists but is officially ignored, then it is still a guilty soul.
It is still unclean.
Catholic theology takes seriously the notion that "nothing unclean shall enter heaven."
From this it is inferred that a less than cleansed soul, even if "covered,"
Remains a dirty soul and isn’t fit for heaven.
It needs to be cleansed or "purged" of its remaining imperfections.
The cleansing occurs in purgatory.
Indeed, the necessity of the purging is taught in other passages of Scripture, such as.
2 Thessalonians 2:13
Which declares that God chose us "to be saved through sanctification by the Spirit."
Sanctification is thus not an option, something that may or may not happen before one gets into heaven.
It is an absolute requirement, as.
Hebrews 12:14
States that we must strive "for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord."
(End Part 2)
Dec 13, 2018 13:18:44 #
The Roman Catholic doctrine of purgatory is taught nowhere in Scripture. It was invented to accommodate Catholicism’s denial of justification by faith alone. And it offers false hope to millions who anticipate ample time beyond the grave—perhaps eons, if necessary—to achieve their own justification.
Scripture very clearly teaches that an absolutely perfect righteousness is necessary for entry into heaven. Jesus said, “I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 5:20). He then added, “Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect” (Matthew 5:48)—thus setting the standard as high as it can possibly be set.
The Only Way to Heaven
Later in His ministry, when the rich young ruler approached Jesus to ask how he might enter heaven, Jesus upheld this same standard of absolute perfection. He began by challenging the clear implication that the young man hoped he could attain a sufficient goodness of his own to merit heaven: “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good” (Matthew 19:17). Notice: Jesus did not disclaim that He Himself was sinlessly perfect (a common misinterpretation of this passage). He was simply pointing out plainly that the standard of perfection required to earn heaven is impossible for fallen creatures.
Because the young man was undeterred by this, however, Jesus told him that to obtain eternal life, he must have a track record of perfect obedience to the law (Matthew 19:17-22). Again and again, Jesus made the required standard of righteousness impossibly high for all who would seek to earn God’s favor on their own.
The young ruler clearly did not understand or acknowledge his own sinfulness. He assured Jesus that he had indeed kept the law from his youth up (v. 20).
Jesus subtly pointed out the young man’s covetousness (v. 21), which was a violation of the tenth commandment. From the outset of His conversation with the young man, the Lord was prodding him to confess that no one but God Himself is truly good. But the rich young ruler was unwilling to face his own sinfulness, and so he went away without salvation.
The disciples marveled at this. The young man was evidently—from a human perspective—one of the most righteous individuals they’d encountered. Notice that no one disputed his claim that he had obeyed the law. That suggests there were no overt sins in his life that anyone could point to. He seemed the best of men. So the disciples were floored when he walked away with no assurance of eternal life from Jesus. In fact, Jesus told them, “Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God” (Matthew 19:23-24).
There’s no mistaking Jesus’ point. He was setting the standard at an impossible height. He was saying that the most fastidious legal observance is not enough. The most flawless external righteousness is not enough. All the worldly advantages of wealth are of no help. Only absolute perfection is acceptable to God. Our Lord kept underscoring these truths because He wanted people to see the utter futility of trying to earn righteousness by any system of works.
The disciples got the message. They asked, “Then who can be saved?” (Matthew 19:25).
And Jesus replied, “With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible” (Matthew 19:26).
Accepted By Imputation
We know from Paul’s treatise on justification in Romans 4 that God saves believers by imputing to them the merit of Christ’s perfect righteousness—by no means because of their own righteousness. God accepts believers “in Christ.” He clothes them with the perfect righteousness of Christ. He declares them perfectly righteous because of Christ. Their sins have been imputed to Christ, who has paid the full penalty. His righteousness is now imputed to them—and through His imputed righteousness—they receive His full merit. That is what justification by faith means. The Father “made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him” (2 Corinthians 5:21).
In other words, God does not first make us perfect, then accept us on that basis. He first legally justifies us by imputing to us an alien righteousness, then perfects us by conforming us to the image of Christ. He “justifies the ungodly” (Romans 4:5).
Paul wrote, “Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ” (Romans 5:1). “Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus” (Romans 8:1). Those verses describe our justification as something already accomplished—a completed reality, not something we are striving for. Jesus Himself described justification as an immediate event when He told how the repentant publican was saved after begging God for mercy: “I tell you, this man went to his house justified” (Luke 18:14).
Scripture clearly and consistently attests to justification as a settled fact for every believer; it is not an ongoing process. We stand before God in faith right now, fully acceptable to Him because of Christ’s righteousness—not because of any doings of our own.
False Doctrine and False Hope
Roman Catholic doctrine denies all of that. Catholicism teaches that justification is an ongoing process that depends on the degree of real, personal righteousness we achieve. According to Rome, Christ’s merit imputed to us is not enough to save; we must earn more merit of our own through the sacraments and other good works. Righteousness is infused into us (rather than being imputed to us). But it is obvious that we are not perfectly righteous by any practical measure. So the righteousness we obtain by grace must be perfected by our own efforts.
According to Catholic teaching, this real, personal righteousness that resides in us is the necessary ground on which God accepts us. And our justification is not complete until we are really and completely perfect—by an inherent righteousness, not merely by a legally imputed righteousness. This actually reverses the biblical order, suggesting that we must first be perfected, and only then is our justification complete. In other words, in Roman Catholic doctrine, God does not justify the ungodly.
The Catholic view of justification poses an obvious dilemma. We know too well that even the best Christians fall far short of perfection. No one (Catholic teaching actually says almost no one) achieves absolute perfection in this life. And if our own perfection is a prerequisite for heaven, it would seem no one could enter there immediately upon dying. Any remaining imperfections would need to be worked out first.
The invention of purgatory was necessary to solve this dilemma. Deny that we are justified by faith alone, and you must devise an explanation of how we can make the transition from our imperfect state in this life to the perfect state of heaven. Purgatory is where Roman Catholics believe most people go after death to be finally purged of their remaining guilt and gain whatever merit they may be lacking to enter heaven. Catholicism teaches that this process involves intense pain and suffering.
Oddly enough, although Catholic doctrine denies that the imputed righteousness of Christ is sufficient to save sinners in this life, it does allow the imputation of righteousness from living sinners to those in purgatory. This is why masses are said for the dead. Supposedly the righteousness earned by way of the sacrament is imputed to the person in purgatory, which shortens his or her stay there.
The Catholic doctrine of purgatory offers false hope to people hoping to atone for their own sins on the other side of the grave. Rome’s warped and perverted view of justification will undoubtedly usher into eternal torment many who expected to have more time to achieve perfection
https://www.onepoliticalplaza.com/t-146569-1.html
Scripture very clearly teaches that an absolutely perfect righteousness is necessary for entry into heaven. Jesus said, “I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 5:20). He then added, “Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect” (Matthew 5:48)—thus setting the standard as high as it can possibly be set.
The Only Way to Heaven
Later in His ministry, when the rich young ruler approached Jesus to ask how he might enter heaven, Jesus upheld this same standard of absolute perfection. He began by challenging the clear implication that the young man hoped he could attain a sufficient goodness of his own to merit heaven: “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good” (Matthew 19:17). Notice: Jesus did not disclaim that He Himself was sinlessly perfect (a common misinterpretation of this passage). He was simply pointing out plainly that the standard of perfection required to earn heaven is impossible for fallen creatures.
Because the young man was undeterred by this, however, Jesus told him that to obtain eternal life, he must have a track record of perfect obedience to the law (Matthew 19:17-22). Again and again, Jesus made the required standard of righteousness impossibly high for all who would seek to earn God’s favor on their own.
The young ruler clearly did not understand or acknowledge his own sinfulness. He assured Jesus that he had indeed kept the law from his youth up (v. 20).
Jesus subtly pointed out the young man’s covetousness (v. 21), which was a violation of the tenth commandment. From the outset of His conversation with the young man, the Lord was prodding him to confess that no one but God Himself is truly good. But the rich young ruler was unwilling to face his own sinfulness, and so he went away without salvation.
The disciples marveled at this. The young man was evidently—from a human perspective—one of the most righteous individuals they’d encountered. Notice that no one disputed his claim that he had obeyed the law. That suggests there were no overt sins in his life that anyone could point to. He seemed the best of men. So the disciples were floored when he walked away with no assurance of eternal life from Jesus. In fact, Jesus told them, “Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God” (Matthew 19:23-24).
There’s no mistaking Jesus’ point. He was setting the standard at an impossible height. He was saying that the most fastidious legal observance is not enough. The most flawless external righteousness is not enough. All the worldly advantages of wealth are of no help. Only absolute perfection is acceptable to God. Our Lord kept underscoring these truths because He wanted people to see the utter futility of trying to earn righteousness by any system of works.
The disciples got the message. They asked, “Then who can be saved?” (Matthew 19:25).
And Jesus replied, “With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible” (Matthew 19:26).
Accepted By Imputation
We know from Paul’s treatise on justification in Romans 4 that God saves believers by imputing to them the merit of Christ’s perfect righteousness—by no means because of their own righteousness. God accepts believers “in Christ.” He clothes them with the perfect righteousness of Christ. He declares them perfectly righteous because of Christ. Their sins have been imputed to Christ, who has paid the full penalty. His righteousness is now imputed to them—and through His imputed righteousness—they receive His full merit. That is what justification by faith means. The Father “made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him” (2 Corinthians 5:21).
In other words, God does not first make us perfect, then accept us on that basis. He first legally justifies us by imputing to us an alien righteousness, then perfects us by conforming us to the image of Christ. He “justifies the ungodly” (Romans 4:5).
Paul wrote, “Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ” (Romans 5:1). “Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus” (Romans 8:1). Those verses describe our justification as something already accomplished—a completed reality, not something we are striving for. Jesus Himself described justification as an immediate event when He told how the repentant publican was saved after begging God for mercy: “I tell you, this man went to his house justified” (Luke 18:14).
Scripture clearly and consistently attests to justification as a settled fact for every believer; it is not an ongoing process. We stand before God in faith right now, fully acceptable to Him because of Christ’s righteousness—not because of any doings of our own.
False Doctrine and False Hope
Roman Catholic doctrine denies all of that. Catholicism teaches that justification is an ongoing process that depends on the degree of real, personal righteousness we achieve. According to Rome, Christ’s merit imputed to us is not enough to save; we must earn more merit of our own through the sacraments and other good works. Righteousness is infused into us (rather than being imputed to us). But it is obvious that we are not perfectly righteous by any practical measure. So the righteousness we obtain by grace must be perfected by our own efforts.
According to Catholic teaching, this real, personal righteousness that resides in us is the necessary ground on which God accepts us. And our justification is not complete until we are really and completely perfect—by an inherent righteousness, not merely by a legally imputed righteousness. This actually reverses the biblical order, suggesting that we must first be perfected, and only then is our justification complete. In other words, in Roman Catholic doctrine, God does not justify the ungodly.
The Catholic view of justification poses an obvious dilemma. We know too well that even the best Christians fall far short of perfection. No one (Catholic teaching actually says almost no one) achieves absolute perfection in this life. And if our own perfection is a prerequisite for heaven, it would seem no one could enter there immediately upon dying. Any remaining imperfections would need to be worked out first.
The invention of purgatory was necessary to solve this dilemma. Deny that we are justified by faith alone, and you must devise an explanation of how we can make the transition from our imperfect state in this life to the perfect state of heaven. Purgatory is where Roman Catholics believe most people go after death to be finally purged of their remaining guilt and gain whatever merit they may be lacking to enter heaven. Catholicism teaches that this process involves intense pain and suffering.
Oddly enough, although Catholic doctrine denies that the imputed righteousness of Christ is sufficient to save sinners in this life, it does allow the imputation of righteousness from living sinners to those in purgatory. This is why masses are said for the dead. Supposedly the righteousness earned by way of the sacrament is imputed to the person in purgatory, which shortens his or her stay there.
The Catholic doctrine of purgatory offers false hope to people hoping to atone for their own sins on the other side of the grave. Rome’s warped and perverted view of justification will undoubtedly usher into eternal torment many who expected to have more time to achieve perfection
https://www.onepoliticalplaza.com/t-146569-1.html
Dec 13, 2018 14:30:10 #
You sound as if you’re a casualty of the Catholic Church. Or are you merely trying to let the world know how you perceive them to be wrong in their teachings?
Dec 13, 2018 14:47:24 #
bobebgtime,
I believe she was a former fallen-away Catholic, probably with poor Catechesis from the Church and her Family . . .
Now she is full frontal attack-dog with the berean fundamentalist church, what denomination, she is keeping quiet about, like it's top secret or something.
All I know is Ive asked her to prove things biblical.
I Provide her all the Catholic Church documentation and biblical verses.
And to no avail, she is a stone wall.
Hear no evil, speak no evil, see no evil . . . It's like Hogan's Hero's, Sargent Shultz's "I Know Nothing". . . .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmzsWxPLIOo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYCB0qtwIxE
I believe she was a former fallen-away Catholic, probably with poor Catechesis from the Church and her Family . . .
Now she is full frontal attack-dog with the berean fundamentalist church, what denomination, she is keeping quiet about, like it's top secret or something.
All I know is Ive asked her to prove things biblical.
I Provide her all the Catholic Church documentation and biblical verses.
And to no avail, she is a stone wall.
Hear no evil, speak no evil, see no evil . . . It's like Hogan's Hero's, Sargent Shultz's "I Know Nothing". . . .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmzsWxPLIOo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYCB0qtwIxE
bobebgtime wrote:
You sound as if you’re a casualty of the Catholic Church. Or are you merely trying to let the world know how you perceive them to be wrong in their teachings?
You sound as if you’re a casualty of the Catholic Church. Or are you merely trying to let the world know how you perceive them to be wrong in their teachings?
Dec 13, 2018 14:52:06 #
bobebgtime wrote:
You sound as if you’re a casualty of the Catholic Church. Or are you merely trying to let the world know how you perceive them to be wrong in their teachings?
Raised Catholic and went to parochial school through high school. Left primarily because confession and praying to Mary and others wasn't biblical then found many more doctrinal errors later.
Dec 13, 2018 14:55:46 #
Doc110 wrote:
All I know is Ive asked her to prove things biblical.
All I know is Ive asked her to prove things biblical.
Done many times Doc by Zemirah and others.
Quote:
I Provide her all the Catholic Church documentation and biblical verses.
Wrongly interpreted to support false doctrine.
The problem is you never test your faith by reading outside of it. Most Catholics don't. Many of the ones that do end up leaving.
Dec 13, 2018 15:04:36 #
Rose42
What medications are you on . . . take more you need them . . .
Test your own faith and stop attacking my faith, and well have a great day of tolerance . . .
Nope,
The Catholic Church has given the altered state where souls reside "Purgatory.
It's just that the reformers, selectively rejected Purgatory among other Catholic Church teaching.
Can a sinful soul, or an evil soul get into Heaven ?
Answer that Question . . . ?
Doc110
What medications are you on . . . take more you need them . . .
Test your own faith and stop attacking my faith, and well have a great day of tolerance . . .
Nope,
The Catholic Church has given the altered state where souls reside "Purgatory.
It's just that the reformers, selectively rejected Purgatory among other Catholic Church teaching.
Can a sinful soul, or an evil soul get into Heaven ?
Answer that Question . . . ?
Doc110
Dec 13, 2018 15:10:23 #
Dec 13, 2018 15:13:28 #
Dec 13, 2018 20:16:39 #
Doc110 wrote:
...Can a sinful soul, or an evil soul get into Heaven ?
Answer that Question . . . ?
Doc110
Answer that Question . . . ?
Doc110
In that state, it is a unequivocal NO!
Dec 13, 2018 20:23:59 #
Doc110 wrote:
bobebgtime
Something got lost in translation
There is no comment
Something got lost in translation
There is no comment
Sorry about that.
I thanked you for the info. I don't know what happened either.
Dec 13, 2018 21:14:51 #
Then where does the soul reside ?
in hell ?
Because the soul needs to be purified ?
And where is that state ?
Gehenna,
Hell,
Hades,
The land Beyond,
Sheol
Take your pick, provide biblical reference for your decision ?
in hell ?
Because the soul needs to be purified ?
And where is that state ?
Gehenna,
Hell,
Hades,
The land Beyond,
Sheol
Take your pick, provide biblical reference for your decision ?
mwdegutis wrote:
In that state, it is a unequivocal NO!
In that state, it is a unequivocal NO!
Dec 13, 2018 21:21:47 #
Doc110 wrote:
Then where does the soul reside ?
in hell ?
Because the soul needs to be purified ?
And where is that state ?
Gehenna,
Hell,
Hades,
The land Beyond,
Sheol
Take your pick, provide biblical reference for your decision ?
in hell ?
Because the soul needs to be purified ?
And where is that state ?
Gehenna,
Hell,
Hades,
The land Beyond,
Sheol
Take your pick, provide biblical reference for your decision ?
Are you saying that everyone eventually gets to heaven?
Dec 13, 2018 21:23:30 #
Answer the Question first, then I will answer yours.
I assume that's how it should work mwdegutis
I assume that's how it should work mwdegutis
mwdegutis wrote:
Are you saying that everyone eventually gets to heaven?
Are you saying that everyone eventually gets to heaven?
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