truthiness

.....

This is question that I would sincerely appreciate Steve700's answer to or comments about. In your original paragraphs you asserted that leftists see economics as a zero-sum game. Do you think that jr is in fact asserting that market economics in the west is a zero-sum game?

suttonjr,
A few clarification facts:
"Last year, the Japanese government recorded relative poverty rates of 16%—defined as the share of the population living on less than half the national median income. That is the highest on record. Poverty levels have been growing at a rate of 1.3% a year since the mid-1980s."
"According to this new measure, 16% of Americans lived in poverty in 2011, compared with the official figure of 15.2%. The new measure also estimated that nearly half of all Americans lived in poverty that year, defined as living within 200% of the federal poverty line."

Have a great week!

Steve700

No, I don't think all lefties think that it's a zero-sum game. --- But Marxism is the creed of ignorance for the ignorant, the losers and the malcontents, consequently, the belief of that, to varying degrees is quite common among them. It really does take an idiot to believe that the economy is like a pie, unequally divided without realizing that wealth is created and there's no limit to it. And so many lefties ARE that kind of superficially thinking idiot.

buffalo Loc: Texas

Bullshit alert!!!

buffalo Loc: Texas

The myth of "trickle down economics" is what creates and supports policies that have kept the rich wealthy, the middle class dwindling, and the poor immiserated. Wealth created from the labor of the working class, not talking here about the man-made scam called the stock market. Most of the material gains that poor and working-class people have made come via direct resistance to the wealthy and their corporations who create and profiteer from one financial and economic crisis to the next. Is this what one calls free market capitalism?

The American working class is more productive that it has ever been. Why has this not translated into higher wages?

"Since the 1982 “Conservative Revolution”, politicians have climbed into bed with big business magnates, creating a government that serves the rich and powerful. The rich previously took 40% of the profits before Reagan’s regulatory & tax “reforms”. Now, under “Conservative’s” under-regulated Capitalism, the rich take over 97% of the profits for themselves – as over 50% of workers at big companies like Walmart and McDonalds live in poverty."

As yucalandia said, "Yep, job creation by giving extra benefits to the rich is a myth."

https://yucalandia.com/2014/05/18/wealth-productivity-and-job-creation-myths-and-facts/

Who here believes that trumpy's and the republicans' Tax Cuts and Jobs Act will be anything more than another handout to the wealthy and big corporations and do nothing for the middle and poor classes?

The wealthy are NOT capitalists they are greedy.

debeda

Yeah the myth of socialism working in a free society has yet to come to fruition. Socialism impoverishes and enslaves, so far in history. I can't understand people lining up to be poor slaves.....

buffalo Loc: Texas

Why the deflection? Because you cannot refute what I and yucalandia contend that "politicians have climbed into bed with big business magnates, creating a government that serves the rich and powerful. The rich previously took 40% of the profits before Reagan’s regulatory & tax “reforms”. Now, under “Conservative’s” under-regulated Capitalism, the rich take over 97% of the profits for themselves – as over 50% of workers at big companies like Walmart and McDonalds live in poverty."

How is living in poverty with the corporate/government collusion that serves the interests of the rich and powerful, and lies to the masses they are free when they are not, any different than living in poverty with a socialist government that serves the rich and powerful?

Sweden's which has the highest standard of living of any other country in the world, economy is a hybrid of capitalism and socialism. They also have the highest taxes in the world. The key to their "success" of course is a totally different attitude toward social programs that keep their standard of high.

Canada is another country where its citizens enjoy a social safety net especially when it comes to health CARE.

The "socialism" where the "poor are slaves" your referring to does not exist. Those countries are almost exclusively dictatorships where the dictator serves the needs and has the support of the few of the rich and powerful and the masses live in abject poverty. Not unlike the direction the US has been headed.

The myth of capitalism is that giving the rich extra benefits is good for the poor. Why is helping the poor and elderly considered such an evil and socialistic, yet giving $ BILLIONS of taxpayer money in welfare (subsidies and tax breaks) to corporations and the wealthy considered capitalism? Not to mention the TRILLIONS in taxpayer money wasted on continual, illegal, unConstitutional, immoral warmongering for the benefit and protectionn of corporate profits.

truthiness

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Could not agree more as this parable indicates:
Metaphors abound to explain economic situations—e.g., “a rising tide lifts all boats.” Another describes a horse well-fed with oats excreting undigested oat kernels that are then eaten from the manure by the lowly sparrow; this is meant to depict the trickle-down (aka supply side) theory of economics where the wealthy at the top of the financial chain are given special favors (e.g., lower taxes) to benefit the middle and lower financial classes as they pick up possible financial scraps from the investments of the wealthy.
The trickle-down parable might be valid for horses and sparrows, but it does not describe financial reality. Tax breaks to the wealthy are often prescribed under supply-side theory, but the GDP per capita growth rate was 4-times higher when the income tax was 81-85% than when it was in the 51-74% range.
David Stockman, as Reagan’s budget director, realized that supply-side economics would not work as he described in his self-admitted “youthful screed,” The Triumph of Politics: Why the Reagan Revolution Failed. Now a hedge fund manager, Stockman extends his thinking to an inevitable future financial collapse in an even ‘screedier,’ The Great Deformation: The Corruption of Capitalism in America where he describes contemporary financial problems being fueled by twin problems: “FDR’s repudiation of the bipartisan tradition of sound money and the New Deal’s incubation of crony capitalism.”
Stockman’s villains in his critique include Franklin Roosevelt, Nixon, Burns, Heller, Friedman, Connally, Schulz, Laffer, Weinberger, Greenspan, Gingrich, Ruben, W. Bush, Paulson, Geitner, Mack, Krugman, Summers, and Obama while his heroes through the years include Glass, Willis, Coolidge, Hoover, Douglas, Warburg, Truman, Eisenhower, George Humphrey, Martin, Dillon, Simon, Volcker, Baker, Domenici, Clinton, O’Neill, Ron Paul, Shelby, Bair.
One notes that these are not Republican vs. Democratic divides. While Democrats are correctly seen as loose spenders and Republicans are equally correctly categorized as the prime perpetrators of crony capitalism, Stockman’s list blurs that divide. It would seem that a possible impending financial crisis and its solution are not found in the vision of the political parties. Who will lead us out of this serious problem? Some folks on this site will offer Trump. But is there any evidence in the past twelve months that The Donald has the answer as he vows to keep Social Security and Medicare in place and as he stacks his administration with the epitome of crony-capitalist bankers from Goldman Sachs?

debeda

Not deflecting. Stating my opinion. I can't speak to your talking points regarding your positions other than the post I made earlier in this topic that dealing in absolutes doesn't work.

buffalo Loc: Texas

Dealing in realities doesn't seem to work for you and the crony capitalist brigade.

debeda

Apparently we have different realities. I, for instance, don't hate America.

buffalo Loc: Texas

Nor do I hate America. I am just not disillusioned by the lying rhetoric of the left or right wing of the DC chicken.

debeda

Dunno. You may not be aware but I think you're hooked on that left wing

buffalo Loc: Texas

Nope. I call em as I see em.

debeda

From your perspective I'm sure you do as do we all.

buffalo Loc: Texas

Problem is most never see any fault with their ideology and side of the debate while the "other side" is at fault or wrong. When in fact both sides are wrong and at fault on most issues that matter. The rest is just bullshit to keep the sheople on both sides of the fence divided and distracted. Ever notice in a national election there is never more than 3%-4% difference in candidates that are as far apart left and right as bitch clinton and trumpy with their lying rhetoric. Yet, in reality, they both serve their respective corporate, Wall Street, and wealthy class donor masters.