rumitoid

Does it take the belief of a particular faith to make abortion murder? No, it takes those guys no one talks about, those who could have been tested and labeled "deficient," that made the irrefutable case for life.

4430 Loc: Little Egypt ** Southern Illinory

Well Said :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Artemis

Neal is correct in his line of thinking and putting it simply;

a persons body is one's own personal property, that I believe we can all agree. Anything not attached to it lets say for argument sake is state property.

Therefore while the fetus/baby is attached to the woman it is her property, and solely her decision what to do with it...once separated it can be property of the state.

Also consider, forcing a woman to have a child this is exactly what the child will become, property of the state, please bare that in mind as that is part of the equation.

Singularity

Another example of same action different point of view as to punishment.

Stabbing another person out of anger in the chest with a knife in a back alley,
vs
A catdiothoracic surgeon opening a man's chest with a scalpel in a surgical suite at the local hospital.

Same actions, different levels of reaction from outside observers. Different mortal evaluation. And here we know both men with the chest wounds were human.

Can someone help me think this through and tell me whether it falls down in logic when applied to abortion? It seems logical but 'feels' wrong somehow.

Artemis

If society doesn't have to deal with and fighting the now extreme argument that life begins at conception, and more actively promote birth control pill/or day after pill, iud's, prophylactics, etc. we could forget about abortion almost completely.

Singularity

Case in point: US assistance to African countries for fighting AIDS, the transmission of which from mother to child during birth process does not involve any notion of sin. Ditto for the mother infected unbeknownst to her by her spouse who had not always been faithful.

Can we first agree that mother and child here are sinless in regards to acquiring the infection?

Can we agree that the use of condom sheaths can protect against transmission of the AIDS virus?

Then why should US aid be curtailed to include only the rcommendation for sexual abstinence for controlling the spread of AIDS?

Tasine Loc: Southwest US

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Now we are getting somewhere in this discussion. Don't most Americans believe in individual sovereignty? I know I do. Our rights are those promises that are endowed to all human beings, and one of those rights is enumerated:

Amendment 4
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
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I know some of you will disagree with me, but I see individual sovereignty within this Amendment. Innocent life is to be protected FROM government. Yet OUR government has sanctioned the taking of the most innocent life on the planet. Is this not gross and inappropriate? Listen, I am no prude and I am not what most progressives would call a Bible thumper, but I see deep wrong in maliciously and cruelly killing a creature that has no way in the world to protect itself. It is especially egregious when it is done solely for the convenience of the mother. Her failings should not be repairable in the murder of her baby.

Tasine Loc: Southwest US

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The best cause I can think of is that the US is bankrupt. We are going under. We have problems right here in River City that could use that same money. Abstinence is free and easy. Most of my generation and previous generations, abstained until marriage. Not all, but most. If we could do it, so can anyone else - it is about decision making re morals and economics.

4430 Loc: Little Egypt ** Southern Illinory

There are No guarantees of protection with Condoms to protect from AIDS

4430 Loc: Little Egypt ** Southern Illinory

Our problems of moral decay started with Kinsey / Hefner then a whole host of porn mags and such and now the internet !

We are being bombarded with sex everyday just look at the TV commercials !
Activist are wanting to teach kids from college to as young as kindergarten about homosexual sex !

Societies that throw all caution to the wind and abandon morals will wallow in the cesspool of filth .

Singularity

They may not give 100% protection and there is still the issue of blood transfusions transmitting the virus as well. Can we agree that condom sheaths are HIGHLY LIKELY to REDUCE the incidence of spread of the virus. If not I can tell Adam and Steve they can forget the raincoats and go bareback.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, how's the effectiveness of abstinence education stack up when compared to condom sheaths?

Tasine Loc: Southwest US

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Yep. We are getting there quickly. If we don't slow down this rush to degradation and do it quickly, we are sunk. Some people never learn a darned thing from mistakes made earlier. But that's one reason Christianity must be killed - it was a major factor in keeping our nation as decent as it was for 200 years. If the madmen tyrants can kill it, they will, so that they won't be bothered with chastising.

Floyd Brown Loc: Milwaukee WI

"individual sovereignty?"

You are great about bring this up.

But just who do you extend this to.?

I get from your post that there are some that you would deny this to.

Singularity

But the woman has no practical choice but to submit to the demands of her husband. How can she protect her life and that of future generations if she cannot refuse consent and he has AIDS? And both are too undereducated to grasp the concept of viral transmission during intercourse? And the only education she gets is 'Just say NO.'?

Singularity

I would only agree to killing someone if the method is nonviolent.

As in killing with kindness!