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What's a greater leap of faith God or the Multiverse?
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Apr 23, 2018 12:22:00   #
PeterS
 
JimMe wrote:
I'm an Atheist... And I'm not in favor of Multiverses any more than a God... What do I believe in?!? Our Universe as we see it today... And a belief that humans are never going to know where and how Our Universe came to be...

I also believe that my Atheism is My Belief System... That I can, and do, allow every one of we humans to believe whatever we feel is correct... But also, that we humans must allow others to disagree with our beliefs and still live together civilly...

Our current universe looks like it's going to fizzle out and freeze in a few trillion years. So then is the argument that the universe is a single event? If that's the case then you've just proven god. A multiverse is the only scenario where the universe can exist without the need for a god...

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Apr 23, 2018 12:52:36   #
JimMe
 
woodguru wrote:
My brother is both an ordained minister (for whatever that is worth) and a Dr in archaeology. There is such an overwhelming trail of finds that indicate that there was an alien presence that colonized earth and peopled it that the current state of known science can be divided into two camps. Those who believe in god and try to make the evidence fir the bible, and those who don't that are forming an entirely different narrative. The interesting thing is that the two are far more compatible than would seem possible.

Ken has a deep level of knowledge about finds and the dating and science behind them and what they mean. He sits somewhere between the old school who have solid bible first theories that can turn a blind eye to that which doesn't 100% support the bible, and the new generation that goes with the evidence that don't have a bible at the forefront causing them to fit the evidence to it. It's quite amazing the difference in conclusions between the two. Going against the believers with established reputations who wrote the books on early finds is a career wrecker for the new blood, but it does have an interesting way the game is played. They are constantly having to preface contradictions to the old school of thought.
My brother is both an ordained minister (for whate... (show quote)



This was the situation a couple of millenniums ago when the Jewish Single God believers clashed with the Prevalent Multi-gods believers...

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Apr 23, 2018 19:56:14   #
4430 Loc: Little Egypt ** Southern Illinory
 
woodguru wrote:
My brother is both an ordained minister (for whatever that is worth) and a Dr in archaeology. There is such an overwhelming trail of finds that indicate that there was an alien presence that colonized earth and peopled it that the current state of known science can be divided into two camps. Those who believe in god and try to make the evidence fir the bible, and those who don't that are forming an entirely different narrative. The interesting thing is that the two are far more compatible than would seem possible.

Ken has a deep level of knowledge about finds and the dating and science behind them and what they mean. He sits somewhere between the old school who have solid bible first theories that can turn a blind eye to that which doesn't 100% support the bible, and the new generation that goes with the evidence that don't have a bible at the forefront causing them to fit the evidence to it. It's quite amazing the difference in conclusions between the two. Going against the believers with established reputations who wrote the books on early finds is a career wrecker for the new blood, but it does have an interesting way the game is played. They are constantly having to preface contradictions to the old school of thought.
My brother is both an ordained minister (for whate... (show quote)


Curious as to what church does your brother minister in ?

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Apr 24, 2018 11:14:54   #
kemmer
 
bahmer wrote:
...There are no tests to prove evolution as there are no tests that can prove creationism. It is faith based on either end.

But there is far more evidence indicating that evolution happened (is happening) than there is for creationism.

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Apr 24, 2018 11:26:04   #
bahmer
 
kemmer wrote:
But there is far more evidence indicating that evolution happened (is happening) than there is for creationism.


It depends on who you listen to. There are creation scientists that can and do refute all of the evolution scientists but that goes against the liberal talking points so it is ignored. IF you are liberal and don't believe in God you will gravitate to people who support your beliefs and that is understood. I am a Christian and I gravitate to people who support mine. You will never accept mine and I understand that but don't jump on me for your view point.

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Apr 24, 2018 11:51:03   #
kemmer
 
bahmer wrote:
It depends on who you listen to. There are creation scientists that can and do refute all of the evolution scientists but that goes against the liberal talking points so it is ignored. IF you are liberal and don't believe in God you will gravitate to people who support your beliefs and that is understood. I am a Christian and I gravitate to people who support mine. You will never accept mine and I understand that but don't jump on me for your view point.

I am a Christian and always have been. I see no reason to doubt the ample evidence that our race has and is evolving. Our creation story is only one of thousands, different peoples have formulated to explain why THEY are the chosen of their god or gods. It is not necessary to believe highly dubious creation stories and still be a Christian.

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Apr 24, 2018 11:56:37   #
bahmer
 
kemmer wrote:
I am a Christian and always have been. I see no reason to doubt the ample evidence that our race has and is evolving. Our creation story is only one of thousands, different peoples have formulated to explain why THEY are the chosen of their god or gods. It is not necessary to believe highly dubious creation stories and still be a Christian.


It's your story and you can stick to it if you want to. If you start taking out sections of the Bible where do you stop and what is your criteria you can worship both God and Mammon. I find it easier to believe the whole bible and not just bits and chunks. Either God is true or God's a lier your choice I guess. You can set yourself above God and say his book is a bunch of fairy tales or you can believe it all. I just just choose to believe all of it is all.

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Apr 24, 2018 12:05:38   #
kemmer
 
bahmer wrote:
It's your story and you can stick to it if you want to. If you start taking out sections of the Bible where do you stop and what is your criteria you can worship both God and Mammon. I find it easier to believe the whole bible and not just bits and chunks. Either God is true or God's a lier your choice I guess. You can set yourself above God and say his book is a bunch of fairy tales or you can believe it all. I just just choose to believe all of it is all.

No one is lying in the OT; but to think God wants us to believe without question some of the stuff ancient scribes wrote to explain what they could not know, I feel denigrates God. For example, there is no way there was a global flood 4000 years ago.

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Apr 24, 2018 12:16:55   #
bahmer
 
kemmer wrote:
No one is lying in the OT; but to think God wants us to believe without question some of the stuff ancient scribes wrote to explain what they could not know, I feel denigrates God. For example, there is no way there was a global flood 4000 years ago.


Holy men of God spoke, or wrote, as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. I choose to believe, you do not, your choice. I also believe in a world wide flood that even extended to these Unite States and formed the Grand Canyon and various other rivers and lakes.

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Apr 24, 2018 12:31:53   #
woodguru
 
kemmer wrote:
But there is far more evidence indicating that evolution happened (is happening) than there is for creationism.


Meshing the idea that aliens colonized the earth with human variations actually fits with creationism, it fits with the first dating of human remains and civilizations. The Sodom and Gomorra sites (and one other destroyed biblical sites) have been found, they do in fact show evidence of a nuclear detonation that destroyed them in situ, everything in place as it was when the event took place. Sand melted and fused into glass, traces of radiation. The bible makes reference to a flash of light brighter than a thousand suns.

Evolution doesn't go back far enough to explain that well. The concept that people were colonized here actually does, but it makes some jumps to an alternate science that is best covered by science denial.

Ken actually showed me published findings that go against the mainstream archaeology based on matching biblical references, and was showing me the gymnastics that the new direction goes so as not to offend the published works of the last few decades.

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Apr 24, 2018 12:54:14   #
woodguru
 
kemmer wrote:
No one is lying in the OT; but to think God wants us to believe without question some of the stuff ancient scribes wrote to explain what they could not know, I feel denigrates God. For example, there is no way there was a global flood 4000 years ago.


My thinking too, the bible was written by people, it is their versions, and it has sections written by multiple people. I actually find it disturbing that sections are "lost", knowing that they weren't inadvertently misplaced as the term would imply. No, there was a fundamental disagreement between two factions, and the side that won burned and removed all traces of the gospels written by the ones the winners didn't agree with.

This was a religion that dominated by fear and forced beliefs. It was not a good thing to openly admit you did not believe in god. I find it perhaps the ultimate in arrogance that the church found it necessary to crush civilizations that didn't believe, wouldn't convert their beliefs to theirs.

The Gnostics were a peaceful and good society that had no need for christianity, they were doing just fine. The way their beliefs worked they were at least as good of examples of what christianity means in terms of treating people with love and respect, fun and dance and a sense of community.

Christians have always, for century after century seemed to feel that their beliefs are what serves other people best. And they are quite frankly still doing that.

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Apr 24, 2018 16:05:24   #
Carol Kelly
 
woodguru wrote:
That is mind numbing logic right there.


Mind numbing is right. To be an atheist takes a lot of courage. You get one chance to get it right and if you stumble, you have no one to forgive you, bless you and love you. I am
happy to be a Christian and I don’t believe anyone can truly be an atheist...an agnostic maybe.

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Apr 24, 2018 16:08:15   #
bahmer
 
Carol Kelly wrote:
Mind numbing is right. To be an atheist takes a lot of courage. You get one chance to get it right and if you stumble, you have no one to forgive you, bless you and love you. I am
happy to be a Christian and I don’t believe anyone can truly be an atheist...an agnostic maybe.


When you boil it all down are they not both pretty much the same?

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Apr 24, 2018 18:05:33   #
kemmer
 
bahmer wrote:
Holy men of God spoke, or wrote, as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. I choose to believe, you do not, your choice. I also believe in a world wide flood that even extended to these Unite States and formed the Grand Canyon and various other rivers and lakes.

The Grand Canyon was formed by the Colorado River over 100s of 1000s if not millions of years, NOT by a flood 4000 years ago. Jeez! Rivers and lakes? You do know about the ice sheet covering most of the US till about 12,000 years ago, right?

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Apr 24, 2018 18:10:26   #
kemmer
 
woodguru wrote:
Meshing the idea that aliens colonized the earth with human variations actually fits with creationism, it fits with the first dating of human remains and civilizations. The Sodom and Gomorra sites (and one other destroyed biblical sites) have been found, they do in fact show evidence of a nuclear detonation that destroyed them in situ, everything in place as it was when the event took place. Sand melted and fused into glass, traces of radiation. The bible makes reference to a flash of light brighter than a thousand suns.

Evolution doesn't go back far enough to explain that well. The concept that people were colonized here actually does, but it makes some jumps to an alternate science that is best covered by science denial.

Ken actually showed me published findings that go against the mainstream archaeology based on matching biblical references, and was showing me the gymnastics that the new direction goes so as not to offend the published works of the last few decades.
Meshing the idea that aliens colonized the earth w... (show quote)

Are these the same aliens who helped the Egyptians build their pyramids with anti-grav devices?
Why do we find “evidence” of a nuclear explosion ONLY in madcap “believe-it-or-not” sources?

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