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Armed In America: New book shows Americans do not have the individual right to bear arms
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Jan 28, 2018 20:48:10   #
JoyV
 
rumitoid wrote:
Love this! So typical of the Right with their "alternative facts": "Don't believe the reports from the organizations with an agenda." Oh, no, believe alt-Right blog sites for the truth.


These aren't alt right nor blog sites. I could post FBI statistics but they are not organized in a way that make comparisons easy. You'd have to glean info from various pages of statistics which don't readily correlate with each other. But maybe you believe the FBI an alt right organization too? How about the CDC? Alt right too? Note where TX with loose gun control falls. While AZ isn't as good as TX but has the highest cross border smuggling. NM lies between the two geographically and has far less cross border smuggling and does not accept conceal carry, has higher firearm mortality.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm

Reply
Jan 28, 2018 21:17:12   #
Loki Loc: Georgia
 
rumitoid wrote:
Love this! So typical of the Right with their "alternative facts": "Don't believe the reports from the organizations with an agenda." Oh, no, believe alt-Right blog sites for the truth.

Unlike the left wing drivel that you consider authoritative.

Reply
Jan 28, 2018 21:18:14   #
Loki Loc: Georgia
 
JoyV wrote:
These aren't alt right nor blog sites. I could post FBI statistics but they are not organized in a way that make comparisons easy. You'd have to glean info from various pages of statistics which don't readily correlate with each other. But maybe you believe the FBI an alt right organization too? How about the CDC? Alt right too? Note where TX with loose gun control falls. While AZ isn't as good as TX but has the highest cross border smuggling. NM lies between the two geographically and has far less cross border smuggling and does not accept conceal carry, has higher firearm mortality.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm
These aren't alt right nor blog sites. I could po... (show quote)


New Mexico has concealed carry. They don't reciprocate with many states.

Reply
 
 
Jan 28, 2018 22:01:18   #
Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
 
rumitoid wrote:
"That those cities, counties, and countries with prohibitive firearm laws are the most violent" is an outright lie. Google the ten most worse states for gun violence and eight of them have the loosest gun laws. The most relaxed on that list about guns are in the top five.

From https://thinkprogress.org/study-states-with-loose-gun-laws-have-higher-rates-of-gun-violence-a4f6cdf6b570/
The National Rifle Association (NRA) and its allies in Congress frequently claim that gun violence is highest in places with the toughest crime laws. But a new study from the Center for American Progress (CAP) suggests something closer to the opposite is true — the states with laxer gun laws tend to be the ones contributing the highest shares of national gun deaths and injuries.

The authors of the report, called “America Under The Gun,” developed a list of ten indices of gun violence, ranging from gun homicide levels to firearm assaults to crime gun export rate (the number of guns sold in that state used in crimes around the country), and ranked each state from 1–50 along each index. They then took the average of each state’s ranking to determine its overall level of gun violence relative to other states. Lousiana was the highest, with an average of fifth-worst across all ten indices, while Hawaii’s 45.4 ranking was the best.

While many factors contribute to the rates of gun violence in any state, our research clearly demonstrates a significant correlation between the strength of a state’s gun laws and the prevalence of gun violence in the state. Across the key indicators of gun violence that we analyzed, the 10 states with the weakest gun laws collectively have a level of gun violence that is more than twice as high — 104 percent higher — than the 10 states with the strongest gun laws.
"That those cities, counties, and countries w... (show quote)
Thinkprogress? I told you you should avoid seeking facts from emotionally charged, highly prejudiced anti-gun sources.

Murders in US very concentrated: 54% of US counties in 2014 had zero murders, 2% of counties have 51% of the murders

Gun Ownership

According to a 2013 PEW Research Center survey, the household gun ownership rate in rural areas was 2.11 times greater than in urban areas (“Why Own a Gun? Protection is Now Top Reason,” PEW Research Center, March 12, 2013). Suburban households are 28.6% more likely to own guns than urban households. Despite lower gun ownership, urban areas experience much higher murder rates. One should not put much weight on this purely “cross-sectional” evidence over one point in time and many factors determine murder rates, but it is still interesting to note that so much of the country has both very high gun ownership rates and zero murders.
Conclusion

This study shows how murders in the United States are heavily concentrated in very small areas. Few appreciate how much of the US has no murders each year. Murder isn’t a nationwide problem. It’s a problem in a very small set of urban areas, and any solution must reduce those murders.


Murder and homicide rates before and after gun bans

Every place that has banned guns (either all guns or all handguns) has seen murder rates go up. You cannot point to one place where murder rates have fallen, whether it’s Chicago or D.C. or even island nations such as England, Jamaica, or Ireland.

For an example of homicide rates before and after a ban, take the case of the handgun ban in England and Wales in January 1997 (source here see Table 1.01 and the column marked “Offences currently recorded as homicide per million population,” UPDATED numbers available here). After the ban, clearly homicide rates bounce around over time, but there is only one year (2010) where the homicide rate is lower than it was in 1996. The immediate effect was about a 50 percent increase in homicide rates. Firearm homicide rate had almost doubled between 1996 and 2002 (see here p. 11). The homicide and firearm homicide rates only began falling when there was a large increase in the number of police officers during 2003 and 2004. Despite the huge increase in the number of police, the murder rate still remained slightly higher than the immediate pre-ban rate.


UPDATED: Comparing Death Rates from Mass Public Shootings and Mass Public Violence in the US and Europe

In his address to the nation after the Planned Parenthood attack, Obama claimed: “I say this every time we’ve got one of these mass shootings: This just doesn’t happen in other countries.”

Senator Harry Reid made a similar statement on June 23rd: “The United States is the only advanced country where this type of mass violence occurs. Let’s do something. We can expand, for example, background checks. … We should support not giving guns to people who are mentally ill and felons.”

We prefer not to make purely cross-sectional comparisons, but this claim is simply not true. The data below looks at the period of time from the beginning of the Obama administration in January 2009 until the end of 2015. Mass public shootings – defined as four or more people killed in a public place, and not in the course of committing another crime, and not involving struggles over sovereignty. The focus on excluding shootings that do not involve other crimes (e.g., gang fights or robberies) has been used from the original research by Lott and Landes to more recently the FBI) from 2009 to the Charleston massacre (this matches the starting period for another recent study we did on US shootings and we chose that because that was the starting point that Bloomberg’s group had picked). The cases were complied doing a news search. The starting year was picked simply because it was the beginning of the Obama administration and it matched the time frame of a recent Bloomberg report (a report that we evaluated here). A comparison across the entire world is available here.


Just Facts: Gun Control
Way too many facts for you, rummy, attempting to wade through this will kill you.

Reply
Jan 28, 2018 22:03:46   #
Loki Loc: Georgia
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
Thinkprogress? I told you you should avoid seeking facts from emotionally charged, highly prejudiced anti-gun sources.

Murders in US very concentrated: 54% of US counties in 2014 had zero murders, 2% of counties have 51% of the murders

Gun Ownership

According to a 2013 PEW Research Center survey, the household gun ownership rate in rural areas was 2.11 times greater than in urban areas (“Why Own a Gun? Protection is Now Top Reason,” PEW Research Center, March 12, 2013). Suburban households are 28.6% more likely to own guns than urban households. Despite lower gun ownership, urban areas experience much higher murder rates. One should not put much weight on this purely “cross-sectional” evidence over one point in time and many factors determine murder rates, but it is still interesting to note that so much of the country has both very high gun ownership rates and zero murders.
Conclusion

This study shows how murders in the United States are heavily concentrated in very small areas. Few appreciate how much of the US has no murders each year. Murder isn’t a nationwide problem. It’s a problem in a very small set of urban areas, and any solution must reduce those murders.


Murder and homicide rates before and after gun bans

Every place that has banned guns (either all guns or all handguns) has seen murder rates go up. You cannot point to one place where murder rates have fallen, whether it’s Chicago or D.C. or even island nations such as England, Jamaica, or Ireland.

For an example of homicide rates before and after a ban, take the case of the handgun ban in England and Wales in January 1997 (source here see Table 1.01 and the column marked “Offences currently recorded as homicide per million population,” UPDATED numbers available here). After the ban, clearly homicide rates bounce around over time, but there is only one year (2010) where the homicide rate is lower than it was in 1996. The immediate effect was about a 50 percent increase in homicide rates. Firearm homicide rate had almost doubled between 1996 and 2002 (see here p. 11). The homicide and firearm homicide rates only began falling when there was a large increase in the number of police officers during 2003 and 2004. Despite the huge increase in the number of police, the murder rate still remained slightly higher than the immediate pre-ban rate.


UPDATED: Comparing Death Rates from Mass Public Shootings and Mass Public Violence in the US and Europe

In his address to the nation after the Planned Parenthood attack, Obama claimed: “I say this every time we’ve got one of these mass shootings: This just doesn’t happen in other countries.”

Senator Harry Reid made a similar statement on June 23rd: “The United States is the only advanced country where this type of mass violence occurs. Let’s do something. We can expand, for example, background checks. … We should support not giving guns to people who are mentally ill and felons.”

We prefer not to make purely cross-sectional comparisons, but this claim is simply not true. The data below looks at the period of time from the beginning of the Obama administration in January 2009 until the end of 2015. Mass public shootings – defined as four or more people killed in a public place, and not in the course of committing another crime, and not involving struggles over sovereignty. The focus on excluding shootings that do not involve other crimes (e.g., gang fights or robberies) has been used from the original research by Lott and Landes to more recently the FBI) from 2009 to the Charleston massacre (this matches the starting period for another recent study we did on US shootings and we chose that because that was the starting point that Bloomberg’s group had picked). The cases were complied doing a news search. The starting year was picked simply because it was the beginning of the Obama administration and it matched the time frame of a recent Bloomberg report (a report that we evaluated here). A comparison across the entire world is available here.


Just Facts: Gun Control
Way too many facts for you, rummy, attempting to wade through this will kill you.
Thinkprogress? I told you you should avoid seeking... (show quote)


More than likely, one of the criminals he defends will kill him. Out of respect for his beliefs, I certainly won't use any of my guns to defend him.

Reply
Jan 28, 2018 23:02:03   #
Gatsby
 
Since 1967, homicide figures for England and Wales have been adjusted to exclude any cases which do not result in conviction.

If the U.S. homicide rate was recorded in the same manner, it rate would be lowered by about two thirds.

http://rboatright.blogspot.com/2013/03/comparing-england-or-uk-murder-rates.html


Blade_Runner wrote:
Thinkprogress? I told you you should avoid seeking facts from emotionally charged, highly prejudiced anti-gun sources.

Murders in US very concentrated: 54% of US counties in 2014 had zero murders, 2% of counties have 51% of the murders

Gun Ownership

According to a 2013 PEW Research Center survey, the household gun ownership rate in rural areas was 2.11 times greater than in urban areas (“Why Own a Gun? Protection is Now Top Reason,” PEW Research Center, March 12, 2013). Suburban households are 28.6% more likely to own guns than urban households. Despite lower gun ownership, urban areas experience much higher murder rates. One should not put much weight on this purely “cross-sectional” evidence over one point in time and many factors determine murder rates, but it is still interesting to note that so much of the country has both very high gun ownership rates and zero murders.
Conclusion

This study shows how murders in the United States are heavily concentrated in very small areas. Few appreciate how much of the US has no murders each year. Murder isn’t a nationwide problem. It’s a problem in a very small set of urban areas, and any solution must reduce those murders.


Murder and homicide rates before and after gun bans

Every place that has banned guns (either all guns or all handguns) has seen murder rates go up. You cannot point to one place where murder rates have fallen, whether it’s Chicago or D.C. or even island nations such as England, Jamaica, or Ireland.

For an example of homicide rates before and after a ban, take the case of the handgun ban in England and Wales in January 1997 (source here see Table 1.01 and the column marked “Offences currently recorded as homicide per million population,” UPDATED numbers available here). After the ban, clearly homicide rates bounce around over time, but there is only one year (2010) where the homicide rate is lower than it was in 1996. The immediate effect was about a 50 percent increase in homicide rates. Firearm homicide rate had almost doubled between 1996 and 2002 (see here p. 11). The homicide and firearm homicide rates only began falling when there was a large increase in the number of police officers during 2003 and 2004. Despite the huge increase in the number of police, the murder rate still remained slightly higher than the immediate pre-ban rate.


UPDATED: Comparing Death Rates from Mass Public Shootings and Mass Public Violence in the US and Europe

In his address to the nation after the Planned Parenthood attack, Obama claimed: “I say this every time we’ve got one of these mass shootings: This just doesn’t happen in other countries.”

Senator Harry Reid made a similar statement on June 23rd: “The United States is the only advanced country where this type of mass violence occurs. Let’s do something. We can expand, for example, background checks. … We should support not giving guns to people who are mentally ill and felons.”

We prefer not to make purely cross-sectional comparisons, but this claim is simply not true. The data below looks at the period of time from the beginning of the Obama administration in January 2009 until the end of 2015. Mass public shootings – defined as four or more people killed in a public place, and not in the course of committing another crime, and not involving struggles over sovereignty. The focus on excluding shootings that do not involve other crimes (e.g., gang fights or robberies) has been used from the original research by Lott and Landes to more recently the FBI) from 2009 to the Charleston massacre (this matches the starting period for another recent study we did on US shootings and we chose that because that was the starting point that Bloomberg’s group had picked). The cases were complied doing a news search. The starting year was picked simply because it was the beginning of the Obama administration and it matched the time frame of a recent Bloomberg report (a report that we evaluated here). A comparison across the entire world is available here.


Just Facts: Gun Control
Way too many facts for you, rummy, attempting to wade through this will kill you.
Thinkprogress? I told you you should avoid seeking... (show quote)

Reply
Jan 28, 2018 23:44:31   #
teabag09
 
Hey punk, come and take mine away. I'm waiting, punk. Mike
rumitoid wrote:
Ten years in research, meticulously and thoroughly screened, all reviewers say the author is correct.

And even if he is wrong, 11 school shootings in the first year of 2018: that's an acceptable cost of freedom? Do nothing?

We are by a wide margin the most violent nation of the so-called Free and Democratic World. It will take the combined deaths or injuries from guns of the five nearest countries to us to equal our stats. You don't have a problem with that fact? Again, the price of freedom?

What is the real threat? Right wing conspiracy! "The Left wants our guns so they can swoop down in Black helicopters in the middle of the night, with Left-wing's elite Russian force, to confiscate all weapons for their coup." This is the only reason we do not have sane gun control measures. NRA propaganda.

The Second Amendment is not sacrosanct, and even if misinterpreted to mean all citizens have the right to bear arms, we have a clear mandate to make such possession "regulated." Controlled. The State is not enough. It needs to be federal, as originally intended. Universal!

A failure to do is playing the role of the "permissive parent": "Go and kill, my son and daughter, but be home for late night snacks. Our Constitution loves you no matter what. It is your freedom."
Ten years in research, meticulously and thoroughly... (show quote)

Reply
 
 
Jan 29, 2018 00:15:43   #
rumitoid
 
JoyV wrote:
These aren't alt right nor blog sites. I could post FBI statistics but they are not organized in a way that make comparisons easy. You'd have to glean info from various pages of statistics which don't readily correlate with each other. But maybe you believe the FBI an alt right organization too? How about the CDC? Alt right too? Note where TX with loose gun control falls. While AZ isn't as good as TX but has the highest cross border smuggling. NM lies between the two geographically and has far less cross border smuggling and does not accept conceal carry, has higher firearm mortality.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm
These aren't alt right nor blog sites. I could po... (show quote)


Back to reality, please.

Reply
Jan 29, 2018 00:16:15   #
JoyV
 
Loki wrote:
New Mexico has concealed carry. They don't reciprocate with many states.


I should have been more specific. NM has conceal carry but it is not universal for all gun owners. In AZ, if you can own a gun, conceal carry is automatic.

Reply
Jan 29, 2018 00:21:34   #
rumitoid
 
Loki wrote:
Unlike the left wing drivel that you consider authoritative.


You still amaze and disappointment me. Did you sell your name to some angry middle school kid or a senior in an old age home? "Drivel" is only what you can actually refute. Just calling it "drivel" is childish, inane.

Reply
Jan 29, 2018 00:25:48   #
rumitoid
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
Thinkprogress? I told you you should avoid seeking facts from emotionally charged, highly prejudiced anti-gun sources.

Murders in US very concentrated: 54% of US counties in 2014 had zero murders, 2% of counties have 51% of the murders

Gun Ownership

According to a 2013 PEW Research Center survey, the household gun ownership rate in rural areas was 2.11 times greater than in urban areas (“Why Own a Gun? Protection is Now Top Reason,” PEW Research Center, March 12, 2013). Suburban households are 28.6% more likely to own guns than urban households. Despite lower gun ownership, urban areas experience much higher murder rates. One should not put much weight on this purely “cross-sectional” evidence over one point in time and many factors determine murder rates, but it is still interesting to note that so much of the country has both very high gun ownership rates and zero murders.
Conclusion

This study shows how murders in the United States are heavily concentrated in very small areas. Few appreciate how much of the US has no murders each year. Murder isn’t a nationwide problem. It’s a problem in a very small set of urban areas, and any solution must reduce those murders.


Murder and homicide rates before and after gun bans

Every place that has banned guns (either all guns or all handguns) has seen murder rates go up. You cannot point to one place where murder rates have fallen, whether it’s Chicago or D.C. or even island nations such as England, Jamaica, or Ireland.

For an example of homicide rates before and after a ban, take the case of the handgun ban in England and Wales in January 1997 (source here see Table 1.01 and the column marked “Offences currently recorded as homicide per million population,” UPDATED numbers available here). After the ban, clearly homicide rates bounce around over time, but there is only one year (2010) where the homicide rate is lower than it was in 1996. The immediate effect was about a 50 percent increase in homicide rates. Firearm homicide rate had almost doubled between 1996 and 2002 (see here p. 11). The homicide and firearm homicide rates only began falling when there was a large increase in the number of police officers during 2003 and 2004. Despite the huge increase in the number of police, the murder rate still remained slightly higher than the immediate pre-ban rate.


UPDATED: Comparing Death Rates from Mass Public Shootings and Mass Public Violence in the US and Europe

In his address to the nation after the Planned Parenthood attack, Obama claimed: “I say this every time we’ve got one of these mass shootings: This just doesn’t happen in other countries.”

Senator Harry Reid made a similar statement on June 23rd: “The United States is the only advanced country where this type of mass violence occurs. Let’s do something. We can expand, for example, background checks. … We should support not giving guns to people who are mentally ill and felons.”

We prefer not to make purely cross-sectional comparisons, but this claim is simply not true. The data below looks at the period of time from the beginning of the Obama administration in January 2009 until the end of 2015. Mass public shootings – defined as four or more people killed in a public place, and not in the course of committing another crime, and not involving struggles over sovereignty. The focus on excluding shootings that do not involve other crimes (e.g., gang fights or robberies) has been used from the original research by Lott and Landes to more recently the FBI) from 2009 to the Charleston massacre (this matches the starting period for another recent study we did on US shootings and we chose that because that was the starting point that Bloomberg’s group had picked). The cases were complied doing a news search. The starting year was picked simply because it was the beginning of the Obama administration and it matched the time frame of a recent Bloomberg report (a report that we evaluated here). A comparison across the entire world is available here.


Just Facts: Gun Control
Way too many facts for you, rummy, attempting to wade through this will kill you.
Thinkprogress? I told you you should avoid seeking... (show quote)


Way too funny. This is a total fabrication. A parody of facts. Those states (google it) with the loosest gun laws have the highest gun violence. Think Louisiana. Or most of the Southern States.

Reply
 
 
Jan 29, 2018 00:34:30   #
JoyV
 
rumitoid wrote:
Back to reality, please.


If you think the CDC is an alt right group; you are so utterly divorced from reality to make lucid, let alone rational conversation impossible.

Reply
Jan 29, 2018 00:46:10   #
F.D.R.
 
rumitoid? You sure that's not hemiroid? You do know that you are free to move somewhere 'safer' if gun violence concerns you. The governments in places like North Korea, Cuba & Venezuela will do their best to keep you feeling secure by limiting access to guns.

Reply
Jan 29, 2018 00:48:43   #
rumitoid
 
JoyV wrote:
If you think the CDC is an alt right group; you are so utterly divorced from reality to make lucid, let alone rational conversation impossible.


Sorry, guess I missed something. What does the CDC have to do with the topic?

Reply
Jan 29, 2018 02:07:02   #
Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
 
rumitoid wrote:
Way too funny. This is a total fabrication. A parody of facts. Those states (google it) with the loosest gun laws have the highest gun violence. Think Louisiana. Or most of the Southern States.
I'll go with my own experience with guns (which is considerable) and the facts revealed by an independent crime research institution rather than the media hyped, emotionally charged, highly prejudiced anti-gun hacks writing for such liberal slums as "thinkprogress" and HuffPo.

Murders in US very concentrated: 54% of US counties in 2014 had zero murders, 2% of counties have 51% of the murders

In case you are wondering, this is a map of the United States prepared by Crime Prevention Research Center, all those areas colored in various shades of red are where the crime in this country is concentrated. Please note also that those areas shaded dark red are conclaves of democrat rule where gun laws are most restrictive and where the majority of illegal immigrants are located.

All of southern California (including SF, LA, and SD), Seattle, WA. (the San Francisco of the Pacific Northwest), Clark county, NV (Las Vegas), Denver, CO, Phoenix and Tuscon, AZ, Albuquerque, NM, Dallas, Austin, and Houston, TX, Kansas City and St Louis, MO, Chicago, IL, Detroit, MI, Cleveland, OH, Pittsburgh and Philadelphia, PA, Baltimore, MD, Boston, MA, NYC, NY, Washington DC., Wilmington, DE, Birmingham AL, Atlanta, GA, Miami (Dade County), FL.



Reply
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