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Dec 17, 2017 12:31:24   #
Loki Loc: Georgia
 
straightUp wrote:
Sometimes it's hard to tell with these folks, if they actually understand the difference between banning words to obstruct hate speech and banning words to obstruct the flow of critical information or if they intentionally ignore that context.

I'll tell ya one thing I know from first hand experience though, right here on this site. It's the conservatives that get all worked up when I use offensive words, not liberals. The admins have actually removed a post because I used the word "stupid" It wasn't even a direct insult, I was describing an idea not a person. The other poster I was responding to denied the suggestion that he reported me, but it's hard to believe that the admin would just happen to see that I used the word "stupid" and removed the post.

These people can be pretty weaselly when it comes to double-standards. They make such a big deal out of politically-correct censorship acting like liberals are some great obstruction to free-speech, but every legislative effort toward censorship that I have EVER encountered is pushed from the right, not the left.

...and this isn't surprising. The right-wing is always focused on exclusion. The left wing, always focused on inclusion. You can find this pattern anywhere in the world. ISIS in the middle-east for instance is focused on excluding all cultures but their own. They are a right-wing culture, with all the typical motives, such as the appeal to God, the claim to land and the unchecked use of guns. The American right of course confesses an intolerance toward ISIS but that isn't surprising either... If you had ten groups that can't tolerate each other they would all be right-wing advocates of exclusion. So "left/right" isn't so much a matter of "sides" as is it a contrast in the "approach to others".

Hitler, as always, provides a great example... One of the reasons he hated Jews so much is because of their association with communists, which he saw as a major reason for the German defeat in WW1. He saw the communists in Germany associating with the communists in Russia, which he felt compromised the German front against Russia. So while the leftist communists were chanting "workers of the world unite" nationalist Hitler was calling that a violation of national integrity and of course this led to the Gleichschaltung... a right-wing effort to exclude all but one culture.

Getting back to banning words... if the left has a problem with specific words, you can be assured the concern is over the some form of offending or excluding "others". I would say that any form of censorship designed to obstruct the flow of ideas and even facts are intended to exclude "foreign" perspectives and are therefore the exclusive domain of the right.
Sometimes it's hard to tell with these folks, if t... (show quote)


That must be why there are so many Conservative speakers welcomed at UC Berkeley. The left only promotes inclusion of those people and philosophies with which they agree. In this they are no different from the right, just more self-righteous about it.

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Dec 17, 2017 14:43:49   #
kemmer
 
badbobby wrote:
...you are either confused or else just don't know what you are posting is leftist lies


Leftist lies? Nah, all we get are rightist lies from Trump and his propaganda minister, Sarah Huckster.

Reply
Dec 17, 2017 15:38:02   #
pafret Loc: Northeast
 
straightUp wrote:
Sometimes it's hard to tell with these folks, if they actually understand the difference between banning words to obstruct hate speech and banning words to obstruct the flow of critical information or if they intentionally ignore that context.

I'll tell ya one thing I know from first hand experience though, right here on this site. It's the conservatives that get all worked up when I use offensive words, not liberals. The admins have actually removed a post because I used the word "stupid" It wasn't even a direct insult, I was describing an idea not a person. The other poster I was responding to denied the suggestion that he reported me, but it's hard to believe that the admin would just happen to see that I used the word "stupid" and removed the post.

These people can be pretty weaselly when it comes to double-standards. They make such a big deal out of politically-correct censorship acting like liberals are some great obstruction to free-speech, but every legislative effort toward censorship that I have EVER encountered is pushed from the right, not the left.

...and this isn't surprising. The right-wing is always focused on exclusion. The left wing, always focused on inclusion. You can find this pattern anywhere in the world. ISIS in the middle-east for instance is focused on excluding all cultures but their own. They are a right-wing culture, with all the typical motives, such as the appeal to God, the claim to land and the unchecked use of guns. The American right of course confesses an intolerance toward ISIS but that isn't surprising either... If you had ten groups that can't tolerate each other they would all be right-wing advocates of exclusion. So "left/right" isn't so much a matter of "sides" as is it a contrast in the "approach to others".

Hitler, as always, provides a great example... One of the reasons he hated Jews so much is because of their association with communists, which he saw as a major reason for the German defeat in WW1. He saw the communists in Germany associating with the communists in Russia, which he felt compromised the German front against Russia. So while the leftist communists were chanting "workers of the world unite" nationalist Hitler was calling that a violation of national integrity and of course this led to the Gleichschaltung... a right-wing effort to exclude all but one culture.

Getting back to banning words... if the left has a problem with specific words, you can be assured the concern is over the some form of offending or excluding "others". I would say that any form of censorship designed to obstruct the flow of ideas and even facts are intended to exclude "foreign" perspectives and are therefore the exclusive domain of the right.
Sometimes it's hard to tell with these folks, if t... (show quote)


Sometimes I have to marvel at how confused and ignorant those of you on the left can be. Communism, Fascism, Nazism are all leftist, socialist, totalitarian forms of government. While the right may be reactionary, the further right you go, the further into anarchy you are immersed. Right of center are Libertarians and to their right are all of the militias and reactionaries. Neocons are a horse of a totally different color, they are warmongers, haters of humanity, secret skulkers engaged in subversive overthrow of the government, probably through military coup d'etat.

Why should any form of speech be considered hateful? If someone's speech offends you, don't listen or read it. There is no line to be drawn; once certain words or speech are forbidden the list of forbidden speech rises asymptotically until one can say nothing without giving grievous offense to some easily scandalized twit. The left's approach to others is always, to demand the Poll Parrot echo, of whatever is politically correct at the moment. You are a pack of Penguins moving in lock step.

Hitler hated Jews because they were a convenient scapegoat. He used their success and affluence as an indicator that they were ripping off the German people and thus depriving them of their fair share of wealth. Sound familiar? Communism is the credo that all workers share equally in the wealth produced from the means of production, which are owned by the State. Jews were castigated because they accumulated all of the wealth, so were they communists or plutocrats?

They were an easy target; the blood libel had been used in Europe since the time of Christ to confiscate their wealth and or drive them from their homes and properties. Anti-semitism has existed through the ages, first with Christians then with Moslems and finally as a convenient rally point for totalitarian dictators such as Der Fuhrer. It was the conflict of politics fueled by religious hatred

Fascism is the control of all of the means of production while allowing private ownership but again benefiting all of the people equally. This is an obvious impossibility. Nazism is Socialism, which means government control of all production and everyone on the dole. We in the United States are headed this way and it is the Conservatives, who in the words of Bill Buckley, stand athwart history and yell, "Stop".

You want to make an argument out of name-calling, feel free. But, learn what the differences and similarities between these isms are before you ascribe your traits to conservatives.

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Dec 17, 2017 16:53:33   #
Jean Deaux
 
These terms were not restricted to anyone but the budget committee working on the next budget and they can be inflammatory when carelessly used. They are not for distribution to the public which shoots a hole in your foot. Stop trying to cause mischief and mayhem for a reasonable attempt to write an unbiased budget. You are following the traditional dimocrat policy of trying to attack anything on which the opposition takes a position. Your party is frankly getting tiresome in their non-stop efforts to demean a true leader and President.

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Dec 17, 2017 17:01:35   #
Jean Deaux
 
kemmer wrote:
Leftist lies? Nah, all we get are rightist lies from Trump and his propaganda minister, Sarah Huckster.
:

Hardly! By far the biggest lie generating machinery is operated by the dimocrats and endorsed by their supporting MSM. It is obvious that much of the American public has been primarily exposed to the garbage that the dimocrat party conceives and distributes. They were well trained by the biggest liar of all: hillary! Thank God for alternate news sources wherein those that desire it can obtain the truth and act accordingly. MAGA

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Dec 17, 2017 17:03:32   #
Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
 
straightup wrote:
I say the same thing about links every single time. Use them to support your argument not in place of your argument. If you make a disputable claim, you need a link to support it and if you post a bunch of links without making a specific argument then your wasting my time because you're asking that I read all these links and I don't even know what your point is.
The point I made should have been obvious. Colleges and public schools are, in fact, banning certain words. I made that point WITHOUT a link to begin with and when you disputed it, I followed up with valid links. If this sort of discourse is too difficult for you to follow, then stick with something simple.

Moreover, campuses around the country have established "free speech zones". Free speech zones (also known as First Amendment zones, free speech cages, and protest zones) are areas set aside in public places that are used to restrict the ability of American citizens to exercise their right of free speech in the United States by forcing them into these zones.

And there is, in fact, an Islamic campaign occurring in our schools. The Muslim Students Association among many other Islamic groups are subverting our constitution in our schools.

I don't live in a "vaulted community", whatever the hell that is. I live in 10,000 square miles of mountain wilderness. Yee Ha!

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Dec 17, 2017 17:05:23   #
Jean Deaux
 
11r20 wrote:
it's all queerbait speak, i can hear it No~w

they'll say--- we're vul~~nerable
because cletus says we cant make a fe~tus
n' we deserve enti~~tlement
because we're dive~~rse
and identify ourselves as transge~~nder
n' my name's jimmy marie; now whats ya gonna give me?



How about a nob on your noggin to straighten our your thinking

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Dec 17, 2017 17:10:07   #
Jean Deaux
 
PeterS wrote:
Nicely done. I'm still laughing...
;

The piece has been edited to remove the fact that the "censorship" was only to be used in communicating budget matters to another government agency. It does not apply to the public sector in spite of the innuendo that we have suddenly come under the control of Herr Goebbels. Yet another tired dimocrat tactic to confound the truth and spread rumor.

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Dec 17, 2017 17:43:52   #
Jean Deaux
 
Loki wrote:
That must be why there are so many Conservative speakers welcomed at UC Berkeley. The left only promotes inclusion of those people and philosophies with which they agree. In this they are no different from the right, just more self-righteous about it.



Loki, I have often wondered about Hitler's obsession with the Jews and the communists. I believe part of it is that the communist party (by far, Germany's most mortal enemy), was founded by Jews: Lenin, Marx, Trotsky, and Engels. I don't believe that Hitler himself was responsible for the concentration camps high death rate but think that most of that fell on Himmler and very hard times. And it was exacerbated by Germany's small size.

Most of the inmates died of starvation: to look at the situation as it was then may be revealing. Most German farming labor was in the military and food was at a premium. The only Germans that ate well were the actual fighting men, they got the wurst, potatoes, cabbage, bread, etc. The next in line were the rear echelon troops, they were also well fed for the most part. After that came the German civilians; they ate rather more poorly with artificial coffee and sometimes sawdust bread and far less of a meat ration. Then came the foreign defense workers and finally the prison camp inmates. Their rations were almost non existent and many starved.

Their bodies were burned to forego typhus and their clothes were gassed with Zyklon B to kill the disease bearing insects, fleas, etc. (in fact, the allies used very similar procedures to kill disease bearing insects). Hitler is reputed to have had six million jews murdered but the actual facts seem to be closer to 600,000, certainly a very heinous number but nowhere near the sympathy jerking figure of six million (Interestingly enough, the Jews claimed the same number of deaths at the end of WWI but were ignored). And most were starved, not shot, hanged, gassed, etc. It was, in any event, a tragic situation but nowhere near the 26 million that Stalin managed to have killed. Comments??

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Dec 17, 2017 17:50:44   #
Jean Deaux
 
pafret wrote:
I found it interesting that when I saw the title, I used IM Translator to get the word's meaning in English. This is what the translator says it means: "DC circuit!”

While the same information can be communicated in other words, the censorship has achieved the desired effect because just as the wordsmith can say he didn't mean any of those words, the reader now has to infer that this is what was meant. Brevity is clarity; the use of circumlocutions introduces confusion and uncertainty in the reader and impedes effective communication. This is the intent; forbidding the use of certain words is a major step in controlling truth. Big Brother is tightening the noose; reality is what the government says it is.

Is it not remarkable that there is no single person who can be assigned responsibility for issuing such an order? How do the researchers know that penalties will be imposed if they don't follow the dictates? Where are the guardians of the constitution who say you cannot suppress free speech?

This issue is not the same as the Trump administration doing all of these freedom-suppressing actions. I would suspect that this is exactly what Trump does not want. Instead it is the entrenched bureaucracy, imposing leftist political correctness, on other government agencies. There is an evil in this imposition of thought control but it is by no means certain that Trump is behind it. The man is a blunt instrument; he is hardly likely to espouse speech suppression.
I found it interesting that when I saw the title, ... (show quote)
:

I believe you stated your case very well. Far too many Trump antagonists running loose attempting every possible effort to confound his efforts. MAGA

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Dec 17, 2017 17:59:38   #
Jean Deaux
 
pafret wrote:
Salty I really can't buy into what you are claiming about Trump. I have been in supervisory and managerial positions for many years of my working career and the biggest problem I had was in subordinates sugar coating or supressing bad news. Nothing ever goes as planned because we are not omniscent. When people keep information from you it leads to making bad decisions as to what course of action to take. I tried to impress on my people that we could fix any problem but first we had to know what the problem was.

Invariably, some weenie would take it upon himself to conceal information until we had a disaster, usually to cover their asses. Corporate policies being what they are, I had to build a case over a years time, documentuing every infraction and failure to complete assignments in proper time. It was distasteful, a royal pain and a lot of work but without it I couldn't get rid of perpetual morons. The simpler way was to lend the guy out on a permanent basis to some other unsuspecting manager, which is how I got most of my losers in the first place.

This is probably the reason why there are so many complete idiots in the Federal Buraucracy. Civil Service regulations make them immune to dismissal unless their moral behavior is egregious. After a few years they become masters at CYA and effectively retire on the job. In the meantime they hide every problem possible to avoid the work of fixing it and to avoid guilt.
Salty I really can't buy into what you are claimin... (show quote)
:


I had a few civil service civilians that were superlative but far too many were "featherbedders, retired in place", just as you did. They are, just as you said, hard to get rid of but well worth the effort to clear the decks of the dead wood.

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Dec 17, 2017 18:01:57   #
PeterS
 
drlarrygino wrote:
Hey straightup, did you get your prayer rugs from the government or prison system yet? I have never heard of the government or prison system passing out crosses. A little favoritism to the "religion of war", islam perhaps???

You have 60 posts? So once you get your courage up you crawl out of your rock to snipe at someone? If that's your life it's pretty sad...

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Dec 17, 2017 18:13:00   #
Jean Deaux
 
saltwind 78 wrote:
straightUp, This is as crazy as crazy gets. The only thing that is crazier is the fact that nobody in the CDC is protesting this idiocy. CNN interviewed several former journalists, pundits and former Trump people and what they all agreed on was that the Donald doesn't like to hear bad news. This is related to that fact.
:


One more time: I think you are reacting to an edited article. The original stated that it was being employed on a budget bill to be used to inform other govt agencies of the budget situation. It was not meant to be spread before the American public; it was one group of politicians addressing another group of politicians.
It is obviously of interest only to those who would denigrate the President and his efforts to govern our Republic. As one writer said, he could easily maneuver around the use of these possibly inflamatory words in relaying his message. Is this the proverbial mountain made from a mole hole by desperate opponents?

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Dec 17, 2017 18:27:50   #
Jean Deaux
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
I'm not going to look it up, but I'm sure the Germans have a phrase or expression for people so obsessed with sex in all its perverse manifestations that they use it as a political weapon.

I don't suppose it would be politically correct to mention the long list of words, phrases, and expressions that liberal academics have banned in public schools and universities. Such as "crazy," "insane," "retarded," "gay," "tyranny," "gypped," "illegal alien," "fag," "ghetto", "raghead," "I want to die," "that test raped me", "skill set," "enhanced interrogation," "derp," "lame," "invalid," "Mr.," "Mrs.," and "Ms," "freshman," "girl," "MAN", "policeman," "fireman," "mailman," congressman," "mankind," "man-made, " and other compound words that include "man". This is the short list.

Then there are the bans on "Bible", "Jesus," "Christian," and praying in school except for ablutions and oblations to Allah. If you have a Qu'ran and a prayer rug, you are cool, if you have a Bible and a crucifix, you are a dangerous extremist.
I'm not going to look it up, but I'm sure the Germ... (show quote)
:



You expressed that VERY well, Kudos. I think we have a fresh effort by our liberal branch to start another tempest in a teapot.

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Dec 17, 2017 18:33:02   #
Crayons Loc: St Jo, Texas
 
Jean Deaux wrote:
:
Is this the proverbial mountain made from a mole hole by desperate opponents?


well, you know Miss Jean?...They do want LBJ's 'Great Welfare Society' back in play.

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