straightUp Loc: California

It's uplifting to see decency drawing a line. Even though it was such a narrow margin, the fact that it happened in Alabama was huge. The message is very clear too. This isn't about partisan politics. It's about drawing a line between immoral partisan politics and just straight up decency. Well, done Alabama!

rick1958

Doug Jones will have 2 years to show his spots. If he moves to the middle and becomes a more centrist Democrat he might have a chance of being reelected. If he goes all out liberal left leaning progressive Democrat he will be gone with the wind. The choice is his to make.

grace scott

PeterS

here, here...

oldroy Loc: Western Kansas (No longer in hiding)

I suppose I am not being real in saying that I wonder how you worry about Moore's paid for wrongs on teenage girls and seemingly can't mention the fact that his opponent accepts abortions up to the end of a pregnancy. Can you find me some proof that he isn't like that? I sure hope he performs as well as you seem to think he will, but don't think he will.

I think that too many Alabamans who would have voted for Moore stayed home for some reason. I am glad it came out like it did because now McConnell can use that election as an excuse for why he can't get anything done. I want the end of McConnell but am sure that the newly elected man will support McConnell often because he wants to hurt the GOP. McConnell is one of the DC establishment people in case you don't know.

straightUp Loc: California

That's what abortion does oldroy... it ends pregnancy .


Who isn't like what? You mentioned three different accusation about three different people...


I never said anything about how well I think Jones will perform. I hope he serves the people fairly, but I my point about the bright light is how the people in Alabama made a statement with a resounding voice that changed the senate floor. If this was a normal race, the Republican would have won, no question about it. But this race was different BECAUSE of Moore's transgressions. Not just the allegations of inappropriate relations with minors, but in his convicted violations of the law. Moore is a charlatan who disguises his immoral corruption in tough-talking righteousness and the people are catching on.


yeah... ok.


Yes, I know who McConnell is. He's the one who looks like ghost owned by the Koch family, long-time members of the oligarchy, so yes... DC establishment.

Bad Bob Loc: Virginia

straightUp Loc: California

You're probably right. Historically, Alabama has always been more Right than Left. So, maybe Jones can find that near-middle road. Or maybe that line the people drew in Alabama today was already enough to prove their point.

Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON

Damn, you Marxist fools think you just won the keys to the universe. Do you really think ONE senate seat is some kind of magical formula that will change anything? You people have no freaking clue of the consequences of what liberalism has done and continues to do to our country. Blinder than fuking bats.

The Failure of liberalism


If pregnancy does not endanger the mother's life, then abortion is murder of the innocent.

The After effects of abortion

Black Genocide

One of the primary arguments posed by supporters of Roy Moore to Republicans who feel uneasy about voting for someone who not only lacks the principles of a constitutional conservative, but who has said some incredibly offensive things, and who has been accused of unwanted contact, sexual harassment, and sexual assault by multiple women, is that Moore is the lesser of two evils.

According to the "lesser of two evils" argument being used by Moore supporters, there are several reasons one should vote for the Alabama Republican. The most prominent of these arguments, however, relates to abortion. Roy Moore, they say, would vote in favor of pro-life legislation, whereas his Democratic opponent, Doug Jones, is ardently pro-abortion. This is true. Doug Jones’ position on abortion is morally abhorrent.

In 2016, the "lesser of two evils" argument was also made by Trump supporters. Their contention was that Trump would nominate constitutional originalists to the Supreme Court, whereas Hillary Clinton would nominate judicial activists. Again, this turned out to be true, and we got a fantastic SCOTUS justice in Neil Gorsuch following Trump’s win.

However, when assessing this type of argument as it pertains to Roy Moore, one must ask the following question: Would Moore’s presence in the United States Senate actually help move pro-life legislation forward? The answer is no.

There are several reasons why losing or maintaining a single Senate seat won’t have a significant impact on abortion.

Unfortunately, for Senate Republicans to pass a pro-life bill like the 20-week abortion ban that easily passed the House of Representatives in October, they would need 60 votes. With only a 52-seat majority, and several Senators who reliably vote against pro-life legislation on a regular basis, Republicans are lacking the manpower to get anti-abortion bills across the finish line.

In 2015, a 20-week abortion ban was defeated in the Senate by six votes. 51 Republicans voted in favor of the bill, with three Democrats also voting in favor (Senators Bob Casey, Joe Donnelly, and Joe Manchin). However, two Republicans voted against the bill (Senators Mark Kirk and Susan Collins), and one abstained (Lisa Murkowski).

There are always a few Republicans in the Senate who will either abstain or vote against anti-abortion legislation. Collins, along with former Republican Senator Olympia Snowe, even voted against the "Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act of 2003," which passed the senate 64-34.

To claim that losing this seat will deal some kind of death blow to the pro-life cause is disingenuous. Would such a loss be ideal? No, but if one feels uneasy about voting for Roy Moore, the "lesser of two evils" argument as it pertains to abortion isn’t convincing.

There’s another reason this line of thinking is specious. First and foremost, abortion is a cultural issue, and culture lies upstream of politics. The battle regarding the definition and sanctity of life can certainly be waged by lawmakers, but until a majority of our society is convinced that the practice is immoral, the evil of abortion won’t be vanquished.

A 2016 study conducted by Barna Group for The Institute for Pro-Life Advancement found that 53% of people ages 18-31 believed that abortion should be illegal in all circumstances (17%) or legal only in "extreme" cases (36%), while 17% said abortion should be legal under all circumstances.

Since 2001, the percentage of Americans who find abortion "morally wrong" has increased by four points (45% to 49%), according to Gallup. The pro-life cause is slowly gaining momentum, and the onus is on the people to push it forward. We cannot and must not rely on politicians to wage this war for us.

Not offering one’s support for the morally repugnant platform of Doug Jones doesn’t mean that one must, in turn, offer unbridled support to Roy Moore. The abortion-related "lesser of two evils" argument used by Moore supporters is aggressively unsound and shouldn’t be laid at the feet of Republicans who see a vote for Roy Moore as a blight on their conscience.

Kevyn

While this is a move in the right direction for the nation, it is still discouraging that 47% of Alabama voters supported a nut job unrepentant child molester.

Loki Loc: Georgia

Perhaps you can tell us why Moore should repent of something he did not do? I haven't heard you say you're sorry for all those young boys I've been hearing about. Using your own standards you are just as guilty, because your standards only require accusations from unreliable sources.
Actually, Kevvy boy, Republicans outnumber Democrats in Alabama. Jones will go to the Senate because well over half the Republican voters in Alabama couldn't be bothered to get off their asses and vote. You see, poll after poll showed that most Alabama Republicans did not believe the accusations against Moore. They were just too damn lazy to get off their butts and go vote.
ROLL TIDE!
My ass.

Kevyn

Of course he did it, over and over. Numerous unrelated women publicly stated what he did to them, people they know collaborating the claims. Moore is also way outside the mainstream even for the Deep South his positions on women, minority’s, Muslims and modernity in general are reprehensible and do not represent the values of Alabama or our nation. It is truly pathetic to see people who claim to be Christian supporting and defending scoundrels and child molesters.

Loki Loc: Georgia

Kevyn, I have heard claims of "numerous women;" but I have only been able to put names to four of them. One was a proven liar, another admitted to forgery, a third worked for Moore's opponent. I hope that one day you are on trial for your freedom or your life in front of a jury of people just as gullible as you. It would serve you right. If you call one of the accusers mother calling her daughter a liar, and another's son saying the same thing corroboration, you are the one with the problem.

Bad Bob Loc: Virginia

Naaaaa it's Roy Moore now.

straightUp Loc: California

Is that what you're all worried about? Marxists? LOL. I've only known a one-handed count of actual Marxists in my life and trust me... You don't have much to worry about.


Uh, no.
Did I say it was?
Did I not make it THE point of my post to describe a bright light in Alabama as a line?
Are you having a hard time understanding what that means?

Let me explain...

Republican politicians are now aware of a limit to which they can take their sheer audacity. Agitation is the classic populist strategy and for that reason heavily used by fascist motives that wish to install dictators, that would otherwise never pass through a functioning democracy. The overpowering influence of deep-rooted emotions are released into campaign-rally agitation. The intensity of right-wing extremism in Alabama is noteworthy and clearly aligned with Moore, who is a known criminal and suspected child-molester, all the more to spite the left and agitate. "Even a child-molester is better than a liberal". ...(fu*king ridiculous).

So, even if only by a 1.5% margin, the line was nevertheless drawn. A lesson to all politicians... they cannot make knights of indecent men. Or so we hope.

Of course it's even possible that right-wing extremists will just turn up the agitation. This bright light does have a shadow... It will cause a lot of blow back. Who knows? 'Rile people up enough and they'll elect the anti-Christ. I wish all the people of Alabama level heads and good will.


ugh.

First of all... Blade... I don't really know who you mean by "You people". That sounds like your assumption that I am a liberal. But I don't really know what you think liberalism is because I see so many grossly distorted perceptions coming from "YOU people".

[quote=Blade_Runner]
The Failure of liberalism

Ah.. here we go... link, link... link, link, link... we got some kool-aid for you to drink... all these sites and data bytes... put it in a link to tell 'em what to think.
I don't know... what I'm talking about... so here's a link.

LOL - eh... just made a little song.

Look, it's late... I'm not going to read your stack of links and I'm not going to assume you know stuff just because you have a stack of links.

I started this topic... The point was to salute the decent people in Alabama. To me... they are decent people. You can disagree all you want., that's fine, but to me... it was a great thing to see and it was about decency.