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Sep 23, 2017 15:43:56   #
Fahrenheit2017
 
eagleye13 wrote:
"You would think that he might want to save his glorious masterpiece called earth."
He will.


God knows what He might do to the people of the earth.

Reply
Sep 23, 2017 16:08:35   #
jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho
 
JW wrote:
No, that is not what it means. What it means is that the religious thrall was broken. I understand your need to believe that but it was precisely that attitude that made me aware of what brainwashing really is and how it works.

I have become agnostic. I have broken the hold of the cult. I hold on to those aspects of Christianity that Christ promoted because they are rational and positive but I have divorced myself from the hierarchy. I have come to understand many of the hows and the whys and, in the light of those, see myself as searching for truth rather than announcing to all who will listen that I have found it.
No, that is not what it means. What it means is th... (show quote)



I've been reading the back and forth replies and I see the lack to rationalize.

I recently went out for dinner at a restaurant. The food looked nothing like the pictures, the written description and what I received were very different the waitress had a forced smile (maybe life drama ) she was fake and phony putting on a different face than who she was. What a horrible experience after so many years of good experiences.

I therefore have decided that restaurants promote and describe one thing, but do something different, there staff is fake and phony.
I no longer believe restaurants do what they say, so I'm never going to restaurants agsin!!!!!

If this makes sense to you, then so should having a negative experience at church mean "all" churches.

God tells us to assemble together
God gives us examples throughout his word, how believers assembled and worshipped him.

God word tells us to "know" his word, so we can test what is taught.

Likeep a fire, when many logs are together they burn brightly, but take a log and set it off by itself and it smolders. When we are not in fellowship with our brothers and sisters in Christ, surrounded by worldly people, the evil one seeking to destroy can come in, oppress even christians. The reason we are to wear the armor of God, too put out the fiery darts!!! But you know this, you studied God's word, yet one church or even a dozen not conforming to God's word and you decide you know better than God, calling "Christians that gather, fellowship and worship in a church a cult.

Your ignorance of a cult. Do you understand the definition of a cult? I'll help you, "A group of people polarized around one man's interpretation of the bible, willingly accepting interpretation out of context.
Cults can agree with the Christian word of God 90%, it's the other 10% that sends them to Hell (corruption of the gospel /Salvation.

If you want to find flawed people -Go to Church
If you want to find hypocrites -Go to church
If you want to find sinners -Go to Church

The word of God/Theology needs to be solid, and the people going to learn/fellowship/worship- they are flawed, sinners, and even hypocrisy, since God transforms us, we christians still hang onto some not so Christ like traits going through maturing in Christ, and we are "All" sinners, that means we sin and do what we should not do. It is not until we are with Jesus in our new bodies after this life that we will sin no more.
So it also seems you are unwilling to forgive others of their sins, or sins against you, having an unrealistic expectation of perfection amount christians. The more we fellowship /Worship together, the more Christ like we become, the more loving, the more mature

Your issues are not with "Christian religion ", but understanding God's word.

I wish you the best and at Judgment it's you solo before God. Did you "ever" sincerely give your life to Jesus, or did you repeat words taught and read the bible? That's the only question you will ever have to have the right answer to, your eternal life depends on it.

I suggest reading. Josh McDowell "Evidence that demands a verdict " and then ask yourself if the evidence to believe in what Jesus taught is or is not justified.

My best to you and yours

Reply
Sep 23, 2017 16:23:26   #
Fahrenheit2017
 
jack sequim wa wrote:
I've been reading the back and forth replies and I see the lack to rationalize.

I recently went out for dinner at a restaurant. The food looked nothing like the pictures, the written description and what I received were very different the waitress had a forced smile (maybe life drama ) she was fake and phony putting on a different face than who she was. What a horrible experience after so many years of good experiences.

I therefore have decided that restaurants promote and describe one thing, but do something different, there staff is fake and phony.
I no longer believe restaurants do what they say, so I'm never going to restaurants agsin!!!!!

If this makes sense to you, then so should having a negative experience at church mean "all" churches.

God tells us to assemble together
God gives us examples throughout his word, how believers assembled and worshipped him.

God word tells us to "know" his word, so we can test what is taught.

Likeep a fire, when many logs are together they burn brightly, but take a log and set it off by itself and it smolders. When we are not in fellowship with our brothers and sisters in Christ, surrounded by worldly people, the evil one seeking to destroy can come in, oppress even christians. The reason we are to wear the armor of God, too put out the fiery darts!!! But you know this, you studied God's word, yet one church or even a dozen not conforming to God's word and you decide you know better than God, calling "Christians that gather, fellowship and worship in a church a cult.

Your ignorance of a cult. Do you understand the definition of a cult? I'll help you, "A group of people polarized around one man's interpretation of the bible, willingly accepting interpretation out of context.
Cults can agree with the Christian word of God 90%, it's the other 10% that sends them to Hell (corruption of the gospel /Salvation.

If you want to find flawed people -Go to Church
If you want to find hypocrites -Go to church
If you want to find sinners -Go to Church

The word of God/Theology needs to be solid, and the people going to learn/fellowship/worship- they are flawed, sinners, and even hypocrisy, since God transforms us, we christians still hang onto some not so Christ like traits going through maturing in Christ, and we are "All" sinners, that means we sin and do what we should not do. It is not until we are with Jesus in our new bodies after this life that we will sin no more.
So it also seems you are unwilling to forgive others of their sins, or sins against you, having an unrealistic expectation of perfection amount christians. The more we fellowship /Worship together, the more Christ like we become, the more loving, the more mature

Your issues are not with "Christian religion ", but understanding God's word.

I wish you the best and at Judgment it's you solo before God. Did you "ever" sincerely give your life to Jesus, or did you repeat words taught and read the bible? That's the only question you will ever have to have the right answer to, your eternal life depends on it.

I suggest reading. Josh McDowell "Evidence that demands a verdict " and then ask yourself if the evidence to believe in what Jesus taught is or is not justified.

My best to you and yours
I've been reading the back and forth replies and ... (show quote)


Can you define "sin"?

Reply
 
 
Sep 23, 2017 16:25:15   #
America Only Loc: From the right hand of God
 
PeterS wrote:
Sounds like you were saved JW--just in the nick of time. The problem with Christianity is that it isn't based on following Christ. Ironic, don't you think!


Well now...we can see you are already attempting to pull in JW to your way of worship, anal sex with donkeys....lets hope you keep those donkeys all happy on your own and that your welfare checks continue to purchase all that butt hurt grease you need....

Reply
Sep 23, 2017 16:47:49   #
Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
 
JW wrote:
Well, witless, you can assure yourself that the story is absolutely true but I strongly encourage anyone to give Christianity a serious consideration. It was a positive force in my young life and could be for others. I am not a Christian hating atheist. I am not an atheist. I am a seeker of truth but I don't know just what that is, the truth, so I continue to look.

I am 71 years old. Life has happened to me; so has death and even a resurrection of a sort. As I have tried to make clear in other instances before, everyone's life experiences are different. You don't have to like them. You don't have to accept them. Only a fool won't tolerate them.

It is the kind of attitude you have shown in your response that makes Christians unappealing. Christ's attitude was one of hopeful reluctance. He offered eternity but commanded no one to accept His offer. Modern Christian attitudes are virtually the opposite of His. Where Christ was humble, Christians have become overbearing. Where Christ warned of eternal exclusion from Heaven, Christians condemn doubters to Hell. Where Christ was one with the people, Christians have adopted a special kind of country club exclusivity.

I want no part of that.
Well, witless, you can assure yourself that the st... (show quote)
In throwing ALL Christians into your personal "basket of deplorables", you are committing a logical fallacy known as a hasty generalization.

Our faith is tested daily, and false accusations against us is high on the list. The Bible is loaded with them. Some of the best men and women throughout the Bible, and throughout the history of Christianity, were falsely accused, and above them all was Jesus. The greater one's faith, the more severely it will be tested. A faith that cannot be tested, cannot be trusted, a faith that fails the tests is not real.

"These trials will show that your faith is genuine. It is being tested as fire tests and purifies gold." 1 Peter 1:7

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Ephesians 6: 12

Apostasy is not uncommon among all religions, so what is the real reason that you published your personal sob story on an internet forum? What do you hope to gain from doing this?

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Sep 23, 2017 16:50:22   #
Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
 
Fahrenheit2017 wrote:
Can you define "sin"?
Yes.

Reply
Sep 23, 2017 16:54:50   #
Fahrenheit2017
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
In throwing ALL Christians into your personal "basket of deplorables", you are committing a logical fallacy known as a hasty generalization.

Our faith is tested daily, and false accusations against us is high on the list. The Bible is loaded with them. Some of the best men and women throughout the Bible, and throughout the history of Christianity, were falsely accused, and above them all was Jesus. The greater one's faith, the more severely it will be tested. A faith that cannot be tested, cannot be trusted, a faith that fails the tests is not real.

"These trials will show that your faith is genuine. It is being tested as fire tests and purifies gold." 1 Peter 1:7

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Ephesians 6: 12

Apostasy is not uncommon among all religions, so what is the real reason that you published your personal sob story on an internet forum? What do you hope to gain from doing this?
In throwing ALL Christians into your personal &quo... (show quote)


What was Jesus falsely accused of?

Reply
 
 
Sep 23, 2017 17:13:31   #
jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho
 
Fahrenheit2017 wrote:
Can you define "sin"?



Have you read the New\Old testament ? As defined in the original translations of the Bible, means "to miss the mark." The mark, in this case, is the standard of perfection established by God and evidenced by Jesus. Viewed in that light, it is clear that we are all sinners.

The Apostle Paul says in Romans 3:23: "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."

A sin is any thought or action that falls short of God’s will. God is perfect, and anything we do that falls short of His perfection is sin.

The Bible actually uses a number of examples or “word pictures” to illustrate what this means. For example, it tells us that sin is like an archer who misses the target. He draws back his bow and sends the arrow on its way—but instead of hitting the bull’s-eye, it veers off course and misses the mark. The arrow may only miss it a little bit or it may miss it a great deal—but the result is the same: The arrow doesn’t land where it is supposed to.

The same is true of sin. God’s will is like the center of that target—and when we sin, we fall short of His will or miss the mark. And this is something we do every day; as the Bible says, “For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23). Even when we aren’t aware of it, we commit sin by the things we do (or fail to do), or by the way we think.

This is why we need Christ, for only He can forgive us all our sins, and only He can help us live the way we should. We can’t forgive ourselves, nor can we change our hearts and make ourselves better in God’s eyes.

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Sep 23, 2017 17:15:54   #
Fahrenheit2017
 
jack sequim wa wrote:
Have you read the New\Old testament ? As defined in the original translations of the Bible, means "to miss the mark." The mark, in this case, is the standard of perfection established by God and evidenced by Jesus. Viewed in that light, it is clear that we are all sinners.

The Apostle Paul says in Romans 3:23: "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."

A sin is any thought or action that falls short of God’s will. God is perfect, and anything we do that falls short of His perfection is sin.

The Bible actually uses a number of examples or “word pictures” to illustrate what this means. For example, it tells us that sin is like an archer who misses the target. He draws back his bow and sends the arrow on its way—but instead of hitting the bull’s-eye, it veers off course and misses the mark. The arrow may only miss it a little bit or it may miss it a great deal—but the result is the same: The arrow doesn’t land where it is supposed to.

The same is true of sin. God’s will is like the center of that target—and when we sin, we fall short of His will or miss the mark. And this is something we do every day; as the Bible says, “For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23). Even when we aren’t aware of it, we commit sin by the things we do (or fail to do), or by the way we think.

This is why we need Christ, for only He can forgive us all our sins, and only He can help us live the way we should. We can’t forgive ourselves, nor can we change our hearts and make ourselves better in God’s eyes.
Have you read the New\Old testament ? As defined i... (show quote)



Why is God perfect?

Why are humans not?

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Sep 23, 2017 17:19:51   #
pappadeux Loc: Phoenix AZ
 
pafret wrote:
You atheists manage to turn every issue into questioning GOD and his motives/abilities. You don't get the message that it is the practioners in organized religion that turned him off, not his belief in the Supreme Being.

Continue your rant and criticism, one day soon you will be able to tell Him face to face how He has failed. Good luck with that!
You have me all wrong I am part of growing "Diets", those who believe in a supreme Deity. Call it God or whatever you may as we have somewhere around 10.000 'gods' out there. I for tend to accept the God of Abraham, Moses, and Christ. We Diets tend to avoid organized religion in general. My point or question is why does not "God" in his wisdom and miraculous ways bring an end to the religious "swamp" that plague the world today.In a sense of the subject, we are more or less on the same page Dog ears and all.



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Sep 23, 2017 17:22:03   #
jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho
 
Fahrenheit2017 wrote:
Why is God perfect?

Why are humans not?


The Bible tells us that the Genesis creation was good. There was no sin and therefore no suffering or death. Why then did God give Adam and Eve the ability to sin, knowing full well that they would sin and bring death and pain to the human race? Some believe that if Adam had been created without the ability to choose, then he would have been a robot. A father cannot make his children love him. They choose to love him because they have a free will. Others point out that humanity would never have seen the depth of the love of God, as displayed on the cross, unless Adam had sinned, and that fact could be one reason why God allowed sin to enter the world.

Reply
 
 
Sep 23, 2017 17:26:02   #
Fahrenheit2017
 
pappadeux wrote:
You have me all wrong I am part of growing "Diets", those who believe in a supreme Deity. Call it God or whatever you may as we have somewhere around 10.000 'gods' out there. I for tend to accept the God of Abraham, Moses, and Christ. We Diets tend to avoid organized religion in general. My point or question is why does not "God" in his wisdom and miraculous ways bring an end to the religious "swamp" that plague the world today.In a sense of the subject, we are more or less on the same page Dog ears and all.
You have me all wrong I am part of growing "D... (show quote)


Well, if you really want to know, this world is, according to Leibniz, the best of all possible worlds. What exactly does God need to do to improve it?

But if that doesn't make sense to you, remember that mankind has some skin in this game as well. Maybe mankind can set a few things straight.

Reply
Sep 23, 2017 17:26:41   #
Fahrenheit2017
 
jack sequim wa wrote:
The Bible tells us that the Genesis creation was good. There was no sin and therefore no suffering or death. Why then did God give Adam and Eve the ability to sin, knowing full well that they would sin and bring death and pain to the human race? Some believe that if Adam had been created without the ability to choose, then he would have been a robot. A father cannot make his children love him. They choose to love him because they have a free will. Others point out that humanity would never have seen the depth of the love of God, as displayed on the cross, unless Adam had sinned, and that fact could be one reason why God allowed sin to enter the world.
The Bible tells us that the Genesis creation was g... (show quote)


Oooookay.

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Sep 23, 2017 17:29:17   #
Quakerwidow Loc: Chestertown, MD
 
jack sequim wa wrote:
The Bible tells us that the Genesis creation was good. There was no sin and therefore no suffering or death. Why then did God give Adam and Eve the ability to sin, knowing full well that they would sin and bring death and pain to the human race? Some believe that if Adam had been created without the ability to choose, then he would have been a robot. A father cannot make his children love him. They choose to love him because they have a free will. Others point out that humanity would never have seen the depth of the love of God, as displayed on the cross, unless Adam had sinned, and that fact could be one reason why God allowed sin to enter the world.
The Bible tells us that the Genesis creation was g... (show quote)


Perhaps because it was the only way to demonstrate agape love?

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Sep 23, 2017 17:36:23   #
Fahrenheit2017
 
Quakerwidow wrote:
Perhaps because it was the only way to demonstrate agape love?


And that reminds me of the most complicated line I have ever received from a man: the three types of Greek love. After about two hours, I just sort of walked away...

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