Refute This.
Sep 17, 2017 06:40:22 #
Loki wrote:
I have often wondered how the capacity for creative thought, i.e. the ability to think in abstract terms, evolved. Atheists appear willing to subscribe to just about any sort of outlandish theory as long as it doesn't include a Supreme Intelligence or Creator.
What sort of chemical reaction produces the ability to conceptualize say, an afterlife?
I wonder which molecules knocked together under what happenstance to produce Beethoven's Prelude and Fugue in C minor?
What sort of chemical reaction produces the ability to conceptualize say, an afterlife?
I wonder which molecules knocked together under what happenstance to produce Beethoven's Prelude and Fugue in C minor?
Loki, how can you question the existence of a supreme intelligence in light of your comment about Beethoven? Does the fact that no other life besides humankind has advanced past their basic reflective functions, influence that line of thought? Does that not, in itself, present enough proof that there is a Creator who had something special in mind when he created Man so special?
Sep 17, 2017 06:41:31 #
Richard94611 wrote:
Wrong. The existence of God is NOT a rational explanation. Belief in God is an act of faith. You assume that something physical created itself. It is quite possible that the universe has ALWAYS existed, a possibility you don't take into account. That would be a much more rational explanation. There is no proof that the universe has not always existed, only your statement that there has been a beginning.
Your reply reveals a profound ignorance of general science. If the universe had always existed, there would be no energy left. Since there cannot be infinite energy, it would have run out an eternity ago. Also, in the physical universe, infinity is an impossibility. Nothing physical can be infinite.
Sep 17, 2017 06:59:46 #
Richard94611 wrote:
Wrong. The existence of God is NOT a rational explanation. Belief in God is an act of faith. You assume that something physical created itself. It is quite possible that the universe has ALWAYS existed, a possibility you don't take into account. That would be a much more rational explanation. There is no proof that the universe has not always existed, only your statement that there has been a beginning.
I don't usually like to weigh in on these subjects which I find to be of a personal nature. But I do want to comment on your statement, "The existence of God is NOT a rational explanation. Belief in God is an act of faith".
By my way of thinking, the absence of some all powerful intelligence responsible for creating everything around us is more an act of faith, than a rational explanation. From the makeup of an atom, to the complex nature of DNA, to the vast universe of stars and planets. To think that this could all be a random act of nature or pure chance is not a rational belief.
Now your question about whether it was possible for the universe to have always existed, really made me think. To the human mind, everything that we know about or have experienced has always had a beginning. That is not to say that what you suggest is an impossibility, but an unprovable concept.
Sep 17, 2017 07:32:41 #
Mr Bombastic wrote:
------- well i got a good one --but i believe what you say this is great.. but who created god ????or what created god -???? so i wonder if god knows who created himGod is the only rational explanation for why anyth... (show quote)
Sep 17, 2017 07:35:13 #
meridianlesilie wrote:
------- well i got a good one --but i believe what you say this is great.. but who created god ????or what created god -???? so i wonder if god knows who created him
Once again, God had no Creator. He has always existed.
Sep 17, 2017 07:36:47 #
Mr Bombastic wrote:
----- i do not think he created liberals !!!!!!!! i am not atheist or anything like that.. so maybe if we figure out who or what created god then we might get closer to our answer'sGod is the only rational explanation for why anyth... (show quote)
Sep 17, 2017 07:41:39 #
meridianlesilie wrote:
----- i do not think he created liberals !!!!!!!! i am not atheist or anything like that.. so maybe if we figure out who or what created god then we might get closer to our answer's
Are you paying attention? Read my previous reply.
Sep 17, 2017 07:52:12 #
Richard94611 wrote:
I point out to our readers that your simple statement that the soul exists does not prove that it does. Your post here is based on faith and is nonsense.
So faith is "nonsense?"
"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things."
Sep 17, 2017 07:59:05 #
Sep 17, 2017 08:28:43 #
Mr Bombastic wrote:
Once again, God had no Creator. He has always existed.
okay
Sep 17, 2017 11:25:42 #
Mr Bombastic wrote:
-Why? The universe is a place of order. Think about... (show quote)
You definitely misread Loki's post.
Sep 17, 2017 11:48:30 #
Richard94611 wrote:
Wrong. The existence of God is NOT a rational explanation. Belief in God is an act of faith. You assume that something physical created itself. It is quite possible that the universe has ALWAYS existed, a possibility you don't take into account. That would be a much more rational explanation. There is no proof that the universe has not always existed, only your statement that there has been a beginning.
The material world is enmeshed in cause and effect. There is no effect without a cause and to contemplate ultimate cause in the material universe requires infinite regression, which is an impossibility. At some point you must admit that there is no known cause for the material universe, therfore the cause is unknown; yet there must be a cause for the observable effect of materiality.
The nature of such unknown cause is partially understood, it is immaterial because it cannot be limited by physical laws, omniscent to have concieved the splendors of the universe amd the laws which bind it, omnipotent because such power, to create, exceeds all comprehension, and unchanging because change requires transition, to and from, and implies a rejection of the previous known attibutes. Our well ordered universe is testimony to this unknown force's unchanging nature.
These are the attributes of God.
Sep 17, 2017 12:49:03 #
bylm1 wrote:
Loki, how can you question the existence of a supreme intelligence in light of your comment about Beethoven? Does the fact that no other life besides humankind has advanced past their basic reflective functions, influence that line of thought? Does that not, in itself, present enough proof that there is a Creator who had something special in mind when he created Man so special?
I never questioned the existence of a Supreme Intelligence, for lack of a better term. I just question the hubris of organized religions who all claim to have THE answer.
I believe you should have said "no other life besides humankind of which we are aware." Science, like religion, has more than it's share of demagogues and hubris. Five hundred years ago, mainstream science would have joined mainstream religion in condemning many modern devices like laptops or radios as the "work of the devil."
Possession of a cell phone, as I have said before, would probably have gotten you a date with Tomas de Torquemada and his boys if you were unfortunate enough to live in Spain.
How many times has science presumed to have THE answer, only to have some smartass SOB like Stephan Hawking or Albert Einstein knock the stuffing out of their hubris?
Sep 17, 2017 15:05:09 #
pafret wrote:
The material world is enmeshed in cause and effect... (show quote)
I am in great agreement with both Mr. B and pafret, and others who believe.
Sep 17, 2017 17:31:57 #
pafret wrote:
-
You definitely misread Loki's post.
You definitely misread Loki's post.
Like I said. I need glasses. One eye isn't too bad, but the other is 20/200. Legally blind. Worse yet. I'm nearsighted in one eye and farsighted in the other.
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