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California want to leave us and become its own country
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Aug 4, 2017 08:55:40   #
Loki Loc: Georgia
 
Super Dave wrote:
Not to be too technical, but I am 100% native American. So are my siblings, parents and grandparents, children and grandchildren, and aunts and uncles.

All born 100% in America.


Good point. I was simply pointing out that there are no indigenous peoples here; we all came from elsewhere.

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Aug 4, 2017 09:05:53   #
Loki Loc: Georgia
 
Nickolai wrote:
The land you say the Mexicans crossed the Rio Grande to enter was an area that the two nations were in dispute over. President Polk had said " We just have to have California " and sent envoys with an offer to buy it. The Mexicans refused to sell it so Polk sent soldiers into the disputed area knowing full well they would draw fire from the Mexicans, and when they did Polk used it as a pretext to urge Congress to declare war on Mexico and take it. After the war Polk paid Mexico five million for it in order to assuage his guilt. But the war was for the express purpose of taking California and the southwest from Mexico as part of Americas manifest destiny it was called. War was then waged on the plains Indians who were crushed by 1890 in order to complete our manifest destiny.
The land you say the Mexicans crossed the Rio Gran... (show quote)


Texas was an independent country, having won that independence from Mexico, and their border was the Rio Grande. They chose to become part of the US after having been an independent Republic for about ten years. Mexican troops crossed the Rio Grande and attacked a small contingent of US troops. The only dispute came from the Mexicans, after they had agreed to the Rio Grande as the border. The disputed area appears to have come into dispute only after Texas voted to join the Union. Once the war had begun, the US set about acquiring territory, but Mexico initiated hostilities, just as they did against Texas when it was still a part of Mexico.
When Santa Anna became dictator, he not only abolished the constitution that the Texans, both Caucasian and Latino had agreed to, he conducted vicious campaigns of suppression in Mexico itself, particularly in the province of San Luis Potosi'. There were Mexicans defending the Alamo as well as attacking it, and there were a fair number of Mexicans in Sam Houston's army that defeated Santa Anna at San Jacinto.
You are correct in that the Plains Indians were for the most part crushed. You neglect the part where many of these tribes had acquired their hunting grounds in the same way that they lost it.... by force of arms.
As far as disease ravaging the tribes, most of it was unintentional. For most of the history of this country there were no vaccines against diseases brought from Europe, many of which also killed a great many whites.

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Aug 4, 2017 09:14:45   #
S. Maturin
 
moldyoldy wrote:
There were a few documentaries in recent months about the opioid epidemic. They listed many small towns in appalacian areas where 90 % of the towns were addicted.


"THEY". Oh there's so many "theys" from the lettered elite of the radical left.


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Aug 4, 2017 09:24:21   #
Loki Loc: Georgia
 
S. Maturin wrote:
"THEY". Oh there's so many "theys" from the lettered elite of the radical left.



You'd best soft pedal it; They will come after you.

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Aug 4, 2017 09:57:59   #
Mr Shako Loc: Colo Spgs
 
Nickolai wrote:
By Naomi Spencer
21 August 2015
The city of Huntington has the distinction of overdose capital of West Virginia, which is the state with the worst overdose rate in the US.
Since January first, at least 520 Huntington residents have overdosed, and 34 have died. Two-thirds of the deaths are attributed to heroin. The rate is 13 times the national average.
Over the past two weeks, Huntington has seen a surge in overdoses involving heroin spiked with the drug fentanyl. According to the Mayor’s Office of Drug Control Policy, samples with fentanyl tested 50 times more powerful than heroin. Heroin users who injected the laced drugs were sent into comas and stopped breathing. In two days’ time, the city saw at least eight overdoses.
By Naomi Spencer br 21 August 2015 br The city o... (show quote)


I daresay that if 520 residents of Huntington had overdosed that is far too many. Nevertheless, 520 is not 90% of that city's population!! Got that? NOT ninety percent!! Pure, unadulterated, hyperbole!

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Aug 4, 2017 09:59:38   #
Super Dave Loc: Realville, USA
 
Loki wrote:
Good point. I was simply pointing out that there are no indigenous peoples here; we all came from elsewhere.


On that we agree.

America-Haters only care about history that serves their purposes.

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Aug 4, 2017 10:12:58   #
Mr Shako Loc: Colo Spgs
 
straightUp wrote:
I totally signed. :)

I read some of the responses and most of them are typically ignorant. People see how much money California spends and they try to make this big case out of it. Well, California has way more people than most states so that's why we spend so much, but the part that right-wing media always conveniently leaves out is that California also earns a lot more than any other state. The bottom line is California can afford their own expenses. What we can't afford is to keep subsidizing the other states.

As it stands, federal law actually prohibits any state from leaving the Union (which sounds a little draconian to me), so as much as we want to secede we know it's going to be a long process and this initiative is only a step in that direction.

Your notation on secession and the rationale for leaving the Union could easily have been written in 1860 by Southerners seeking a new nation for the South. You do realize that, don't you?

Here are some reason's the California Freedom Coalition presents for working toward this goal of liberty.

1. Taxes:
Since 1987, California has been subsidizing the other states at a loss of tens and sometimes hundreds of billions of dollars in a single fiscal year. As a result, we are often forced to raise taxes and charge fees in California, and borrow money from the future to make up the difference. This is partly why California presently has some of the highest taxes in the country, and so much debt. Independence means that all of our taxes will be kept in California based on the priorities we set, and we will be able to do so while repaying our debts and phasing out the current state income tax.

2. Elections and Government
California’s electoral votes haven’t affected a presidential election since 1876. On top of that, presidential election results are often known before our votes are even counted. So, why should we keep subjecting ourselves to presidents we play no role in electing, to 382 representatives and 98 senators we can’t vote for, and all the government officials and federal judges appointed by those very same people we don’t elect.

3. Trade and Regulation:
The U.S. Government maintains a burdensome trade system that hurts California’s economy by making trade more difficult and more expensive for California’s businesses. As long as California remains within this burdensome trade system, we will never be able to capitalize on the trade and investment opportunities that would be available to us as an independent country. On top of that, the United States is dragging California into the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement which conflicts with our values.

4. Healthcare and Medicine:
The Affordable Care Act was enacted by the U.S. Government to lower the cost of health care and expand health insurance coverage to the uninsured, yet millions of Californians still lack access to quality health care because they can’t afford it. For many, access to hospitals and medicine is a life or death issue. Independence means we can fund the health care programs we want and ensure everyone has access to the medicines they need because our taxes will no longer be subsidizing other states. Finally, California can join the rest of the industrialized world in guaranteeing health care as a universal right for all of our people.

5. Natural Resources:
Certain minerals and other natural resources like coal, oil, and natural gas are being extracted from California at below market value rates by private corporations with the permission of the U.S. Government. While a small portion of the revenue is shared with us, our share has been withheld during times of sequestration. That means the U.S. Government is paying their debts with royalties collected from selling off California’s natural resources. Independence means we will gain control of the 46% of California that is currently owned by the U.S. Government and its agencies. We will therefore take control of our natural resources and be the sole beneficiary of royalties collected if and when they are extracted from our lands.

At this point I would support ANY state that's ready and willing to leave the Union. The federal government is failing the people. It would be nice to see things get better but it's looking like that's a longer shot than Californian Independence.
I totally signed. :) br br I read some of the res... (show quote)

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Aug 4, 2017 10:17:08   #
S. Maturin
 
Loki wrote:
You'd best soft pedal it; They will come after you.


If they do, there'll be fewer to bother the rest of my brothers.

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Aug 4, 2017 10:23:47   #
Mr Shako Loc: Colo Spgs
 
Somehow it didn't post. What I wanted to say was that your rationale for secession would be close to what Southerners might say when they wanted a new nation free from the burdens of the North. You do realize that, don't you? In the meantime, what happens to San Diego Naval Air and Edwards AFB, plus the scattering of numerous other US armed forces installations in the state? Is Gov Moonbeam prepared to send commissioners to DC to negotiate their turnover to Cal as the Confederates did in 1860-61 with the US Govt?

As I noted earlier, all this "secesh' talk ended at Appomatox in April, 1865. The genie was back in the bottle and now crazy people in California wanted to pop the cork once more! Unbelievable!

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Aug 4, 2017 10:25:38   #
Mr Shako Loc: Colo Spgs
 
Mr Shako wrote:
Somehow it didn't post. What I wanted to say was that your rationale for secession would be close to what Southerners might say when they wanted a new nation free from the burdens of the North. You do realize that, don't you? In the meantime, what happens to San Diego Naval Air and Edwards AFB, plus the scattering of numerous other US armed forces installations in the state? Is Gov Moonbeam prepared to send commissioners to DC to negotiate their turnover to Cal as the Confederates did in 1860-61 with the US Govt?

As I noted earlier, all this "secesh' talk ended at Appomatox in April, 1865. The genie was back in the bottle and now crazy people in California wanted to pop the cork once more! Unbelievable!
Somehow it didn't post. What I wanted to say was t... (show quote)


I wonder if Vegas has odds on this ever happening....

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Aug 4, 2017 10:29:55   #
S. Maturin
 
Mr Shako wrote:
Somehow it didn't post. What I wanted to say was that your rationale for secession would be close to what Southerners might say when they wanted a new nation free from the burdens of the North. You do realize that, don't you? In the meantime, what happens to San Diego Naval Air and Edwards AFB, plus the scattering of numerous other US armed forces installations in the state? Is Gov Moonbeam prepared to send commissioners to DC to negotiate their turnover to Cal as the Confederates did in 1860-61 with the US Govt?

As I noted earlier, all this "secesh' talk ended at Appomatox in April, 1865. The genie was back in the bottle and now crazy people in California wanted to pop the cork once more! Unbelievable!
Somehow it didn't post. What I wanted to say was t... (show quote)


Surely if CA does become a nation all to itself, we will see a civil war between the northern CA and the loopy southern CA. Mexico will do a 'walk-over' and take southern CA and that crazy guy Tucker allowed to wobble around the microphone will be named ambassador, dictator for life or some other hugely honorable position.

Hollywood screen writers could not make this nonsense up.

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Aug 4, 2017 11:21:40   #
Mr Shako Loc: Colo Spgs
 
S. Maturin wrote:
Surely if CA does become a nation all to itself, we will see a civil war between the northern CA and the loopy southern CA. Mexico will do a 'walk-over' and take southern CA and that crazy guy Tucker allowed to wobble around the microphone will be named ambassador, dictator for life or some other hugely honorable position.

Hollywood screen writers could not make this nonsense up.
Surely if CA does become a nation all to itself, w... (show quote)


Hollywood will make a movie about it, however. The scenario as it see it will be the "secesh" crowd will be the heroes, those that oppose, the bad guys. The reverse opposite of "Red Dawn."

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Aug 4, 2017 11:24:42   #
S. Maturin
 
Mr Shako wrote:
Hollywood will make a movie about it, however. The scenario as it see it will be the "secesh" crowd will be the heroes, those that oppose, the bad guys. The reverse opposite of "Red Dawn."


Yes, but it's the Hollywood culture after all.

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Aug 4, 2017 13:29:00   #
Mattie Silks
 
proud republican wrote:
Im so pissed , Idont want this to happen. this so RIDICULOUS!!! Iam NOT signing pettition!!


Is English your second language?

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Aug 4, 2017 13:34:48   #
S. Maturin
 
Mattie Silks wrote:
Is English your second language?



THAT is not helpful. What the hell are you trying to do with that?

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