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May 27, 2013 21:23:14   #
Yes. Our original guiding document was the Articles of Confederation. It was too little government bordering on anarchy. It was the reason that Congress was called together for a Constitutional Convention. It was at that convention that our Present Constitution was drafted and a new government born. Power was t***sferred from one government to the next without a single gunshot fired in anger. It is the only time in history that a government was willingly given up for another.

Our politicians like to say that our e******ns are the same process, but it isn't. Barring evidence to the contrary, our government is running more or less as written in the Constitution. The facts are that the government no longer is upholding the Constitution...even though our Congressional leaders and the President have sworn oaths to protect and defend the Constitution against foreign and domestic enemies. The problem is that our officials have become the enemy, and our government has grown into a bureaucracy that is not elected, but is where the true power lies. He who controls the bureaucracy controls the country. As much as they may wish to think they are in control, our politicians are not. The whole system needs to be scrapped and start over. The Constitution is essentially sound. We just need to hit the reset button. However, I fear that that can never happen. The current government will not be willing to give up power peacefully. The direction our country is set upon can lead to only one outcome. Civil war. I prefer to stay out of it, but circumstances may force my, indeed all of our, hand(s). We ultimately will have to choose a side or leave...if we have the opportunity to do so. It's not just the United States. The whole world is at a crossroads. We are looking forward to some very ugly times ahead of us, just as the Bible foretold.
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May 27, 2013 20:20:41   #
fmlondon wrote:
I do not know where I got the idea you were a Tea Party adherent. I apologize for that misstatement.

As for the denigration of Allah or Mohammed, again, this is the politically-coerced censorship crowd, not me. It infuriates me to see appeasement of bullies, whose agenda is to destroy freedom in every sense of the word.

If you want to consider me inflexible, so be it. I believe that all people have the right to be who they are, and agree with you that G-d will sort them out when the time comes.

I believe in almost total freedom of expression.

I believe in total freedom of belief.

I do not believe in having the right to bully others with your opinions, wh**ever they may be.

A country such as the founding fathers created no longer exists, and cannot exist in the modern world. Dream on. Were it possible, I too would love to see it (minus the s***ery and with the enfranchisement of all people of course).

A storybook trip back to the 18th century might be sweet. But it is no more practical than the Temple being rebuilt in Jerusalem. If the messiah ever does come, he can arrange it, until then, it is a pipe dream.
I do not know where I got the idea you were a Tea ... (show quote)


Apology accepted. Had you not made that mistake, our conversation would likely have taken a different direction. Let's agree to start over and approach these issues from the basis of facts, and not inference.

I disagree that our country could once again be as our forefathers created it, but I do admit that there would need to be certain considerations made. My point is that we need to start over. Our government is in violation of its fiduciary duties to We the People. It is too far gone to be salvaged. It would be better to do as our forefathers did and start over. I'd keep the constitution and its amendments as a base, but there are a couple of amendments that need amending as they are part of our current problems...notably the federal reserve and the IRS. We would need to identify all the issues of importance that are a common concern, and carefully write a new body of laws to cleanly address them. By "cleanly" I mean without overlap or unintended consequences, but especially without special treatment of individuals or groups.
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May 27, 2013 19:47:22   #
ABBAsFernando wrote:
Babylon is the love of MONEY! Despite what the sophists claim, America was indeed founded on Christian Morals.

One cannot be loyal to two masters. Christian Morality and the love of MONEY cannot co-exist.

This explains why Liberals denigrate Christ.


Hence the reason I say that the US is Babylon. After all, "we" worship the almighty Bull (Market).
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May 27, 2013 19:45:48   #
fmlondon wrote:
I meant to say we have capitalism, but with an element of state control. Sorry.


Ok, modify my response accordingly. Though I still assert that we are more of a socialist based economy now after the bailouts. You do know that you can edit your posts right?
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May 27, 2013 19:42:51   #
fmlondon wrote:
I am a liberal, and I do not denigrate Christ. I just object to a theocracy. The US gives you the freedom to extol Christ or denigrate him, extol G-d or denigrate him, extol Allah or denigrate him, extol Buddha or denigrate him, and so forth. Freedom. The freedom to believe or not believe, the freedom to have faith or not. And the freedom to be equal regardless of where you stand on this. If you want a theocracy, start a new country. The US is the haven for people of all beliefs, including doubtful of belief (agnostic) or non belief (atheist). You do not have to like these opinions, but that is the beauty of freedom. You can be a light unto men, and others may or may not concur. That is your conscience, and not the law of the land.
I am a liberal, and I do not denigrate Christ. I ... (show quote)
Denigrate Muhammad or Allah in front of a Muslim. I dare you.

Also, all freedom comes from God.
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May 27, 2013 19:41:18   #
fmlondon wrote:
Actually, Adam Smith wrote in the late 18th century. Relevance? If you infer he wrote about capitalism, you are wrong. That term wasn't coined until the 1800's (read 19th century).

Your ignorance is showing. There are more than two forms of economic theory. And variations within each theory. C*******m is a form of socialism, but socialism is not necessarily c*******m. Actually, it is you who is ignorant. I am an economist. I have a degree backing up my words. You? There are only two base types of economy. Free market (private ownership) and State ownership. All these other "theories" are merely various shades in between. C*******m is an extreme form of socialism. Neither is an economic theory, but rather a theory of governance. As no government form is completely removed from the economy, they do have influence over the economy.

What we have in the US, and have had for 80 years, is a hybrid. It is essentially c*******m but with an element of state control. You are completely full of s**t. What we have had in America is a free market that is gradually being converted into government ownership. A free market is a capitalist market. A free market that is being converted to a state market is crony capitalism, where the capitalists are in bed with the politicians. With the recent bailouts, we are entering into a state market, the state then dictates what may be bought and sold...just as Obama did with GM. Pure capitalist theory never envisioned huge powerful businesses which could form monopolies or oligopolies, and be more powerful than many states on earth. Once again you confuse the terms pure capitalist with free market. Pure capitalism is a free market. In a free market with a government policy of laissez faire,the market regulates itself. The belief is that everything will stabilize with the most efficient producers controlling production, and the least efficient producers leaving the market. The size of these producers and the consequence of their size is not deemed relevant. This can an does lead to problems as it doesn't take into consideration corruption. These businesses have abused the system to such an extent, that regulation has been necessary, and the first regulations actually date back to the late 19th century, as you pointed out. It is the existence of corruption (which is a human trait, and not limited to a political view) that makes a pure free market impossible to achieve. It is for that reason that governments must create a minimum framework of regulations to reduce the effects of corruption. However, even that fails in the long run as it often leads to cronyism where the politicians make laws favoring some businesses, and penalize others. laissez faire is allowing businesses to run rampant. No, laissez faire is the government intervenes in the market as little as necessary. Laws needed to be passed, and still need to be passed, to reign in unbridled capitalism. Wrong! There is an over abundance of laws on the books. The problem isn't the need for more laws; it's the need for the existing laws to be enforced. Additionally, many of the laws are bad laws. They were designed to unfairly influence the market environment (cronyism) by granting provisions of protection or preferred treatment to some businesses while penalizing others. At any rate, what you want to get rid of isn't "unbridaled capitalism"; it's crony capitalism.

You cannot regulate bad behavior I'm the first to say this, so don't be trying to take credit for it. (by the way, how's the war on drugs working for you?), Fallacy! This is a straw man argument, and a red herring. You are attempting to attribute this to me even though I have never said anything on the topic. For the record, it is not MY war on drugs. I'm completely against it, just as I am against all forms of prohibition. I AM for regulating it in much the same manner as we presently regulate alcohol...particularly where drinking and driving or other disorderly behavior is involved. but you need to try. No, you don't. Let people do their bad behavior, and then hold them accountable to it. You break the law, you get the full measure of the law weighed against you. It's that simple. Once again we are at the enforcement of existing laws argument. Just because people murder other people is no reason to make murder legal. Um, duh. No one rational would ever say that it should be made legal. Having it illegal does not stop it, but it minimizes it. I doubt it. Knowing the likelihood of getting caught has more to do with the frequency of murder. The same is true for business regulation. Business regulation is not the same thing as murder. Fallacy, false analogy. When business regulations were in effect in the beef industry, people could eat at restaurants without fear of getting very sick, and possibly dying, from eating the food. Fallacy, cause and effect. People can also get ill from improper food pr********n at the restaurant, or due to malicious behavior of restaurant employees. De-regulation has permitted the abuses to grow. Fallacy, false assumption. Deregulation also can have good benefits when done properly. Can you make all food absolutely safe? Of course not. However, that does not mean you do not try. Agreed. It is necessary to assure that every reasonable effort is made to assure food safety.

For years, since the lesson of the first great depression, Oh? What lessons was that? banks and savings&loans were regulated as to how much risk they were permitted to take. As a result, from the 1930s until the 1970s, the banking industry was solid and safe, and the FDIC/FSLIC did not have a lot to do. However, deregulating these industries permitted those in charge to treat them like legal gambling casinos. Actually, that's not true. All deregulation did was expose an underlying problem that was created by other regulations. This was the banking equivalent of ripping off a scab. Deregulation only allowed the problem to be discovered earlier than pre-deregulation rules would have exposed. This is why I keep saying enlightened regulation/deregulation. The effects of a regulation need to be studied before a law is passed allowing their implementation. Does any banking come with risk? Of course. I'm thinking of a word. Duh! That's it. However, most regulation is designed to protect the banker, not the customer. Sure there's the FDIC, but what happens if the government can't guarantee protection? We are perilously close to that reality right now. If our government doesn't reverse its spending trend, then there won't be enough money in the world to cover our debt, let alone guarantee the FDIC. But that does not mean that you become the norm rather than the exception. This statement does not make any sense. Thanks to deregulation in the 1980s, people do not even know what savings&loans were. Is there a point here? I'm not seeing it. These are evils which individuals cannot monitor. What evils? So far this seems like random rambling. The only entity with the power and resources to do so is the government, for good bad or indifferent. To do what? You make no sense. There is no logical thought or argument here. That does not mean all regulation or government involvement is good. How does this relate to the above, disjoint statements? I happen to agree with you about the bailout, and did at the time. In fact, I will go a step further. Thanks to the courts, GM was permitted to continue as a going concern, while its owners were disenfranchised. Not only that, but the unions were given ownership of GM (in part) as well. Can you say cronyism? Many of these owners tried for decades to bring about reforms in company practice. However, the way corporations are usually run, only those with huge interests, such as mutual funds, can effectively make changes. So, when GM was permitted to continue, the directors who created the mess kept their private jets, obscene compensation, and their golden parachutes, while the owners, who theoretically should be making the decisions, were victims of a taking. True. And that didn't stop after the bailouts. In short, the bailouts didn't work. I warned against them. (Yes, I actually wrote my representatives telling them not to do it.) The results of the bailouts are exactly as I predicted they would be. You can't cure corruption by throwing money at it. That only spreads the corruption. I personally believe that sometimes the best decision is to do nothing. That's true in this case. I also believe that there is no such thing as "too big to fail". Our government is on the precipice, and is about to fail. The moment it defaults on our debt, we are fallen. How is that for too big to fail? Failure is nature's way of making corrections. We must be allowed to fail...just as much as we must be allowed to succeed. Attempts to regulate this will ultimately lead to failure.

Do I bandy about f*****m? Do I really? Yes, even if you don't see it. You and your tea party adherents My tea party? I'm not a tea party member. Where did you come to that fallacious conclusion? You really need to stop making false allogations and assumptions. do NOT want small government. They don't? How did you come to that (obviously) wrong conclusion? You are probably one of those liberals who think that their rallys were violent, despite evidence to the contrary. You want government as big as, if not bigger than, it is currently. Actually, I want government like it was during the day of our founding fathers...as little as necessary. Stop inferring upon me desires that I do not own. It makes you look foolish. You do wish to change it goals, however. Instead of assisting those in need, you would outlaw a******n, Yes, because a******n is murder. It is a violation of our founding documents tenets that all people have the right to life. This is the most fundamental right that no one has a right to dictate. birth control, I see nothing wrong with birth control. bring private religion into the public sphere. Where is it said that religion is private? (The answer is: nowhere.) The majority of our founding fathers were Christian. The whole purpose of "free exercise thereof" has to do with the fact that Christians are charged to share the good news of salvation through Yeshua, which is a decidedly public thing to do. Furthermore, this is reinforced by freedom of speech. No, there is nothing private about religion. It is very public indeed. Don't bother bringing up separation of Church and State. That is not in the Constitution. The only basis that it has at all is that the Constitution forbade the declaration of a national religion. This was to prevent religious persecution, which our forefathers fled Europe for the new world to escape. You would outlaw science if it conflicts with your beliefs. I also have a degree in computer science. As such I am also a scientist. Why would I do such a thing? Once again you falsely assert that I hold a view which isn't mine. You do it in the name of your beliefs. No, I don't. You are ENTITLED to your own beliefs. Yes, I am. You are not entitled to make them public law. I agree. All laws made on a religious basis is a bad law. That's why prohibition failed. That brings up another point. You better watch out for Islam. In every country where they get a sufficient toehold, they invariably call for sharia law to be implemented in that country. Just look to Europe if you want to see current examples of what I am talking. But 'social conservatism' is out and out f*****m. That is your opinion, and you have yet to provide even a single shred of evidence to back it. If you had your way, we would be the United Christian States Of America, essentially making all who disagree with you second class citizens. While this country WAS founded on Christian principles, the Constitution was created such that what you say should be impossible to occur. Furthermore, the majority of Christians are not even trying to make such a thing happen. There's a word for your fixation on this topic: paranoia. I call that f*****m. Once again, what you call f*****m, and the actual definition of f*****m do not agree. And before you go off the deep end We're not even ankle deep yet. (I know, too late) about our founding fathers, they left behind ample evidence that they did not want religion to be a part of the state. Oh? What evidence is that? The only documents I ever read only said that the government was not to interfere with the church, and that there would be no national religion. They saw the 1800 years of abuse combining church and state did to 'the old world,' and wished to save us from such abuses. This is true, though your interpretation is wrong. They were not unanimous, as I say, Patrick Henry is undoubtedly your hero. There you go making unfounded assertions again. If anyone, I relate to Benjamin Franklin, but I am nothing of the ladies man he was. But most of the founding fathers wanted religion kept private. Untrue. There is no evidence for this. They did want it to be an individual's choice, however, but that is not the same thing as private. They wanted all beliefs protected, and kept away from the state. Not away from, but rather out of control of the state. Prohibition and the war on drugs are perfect examples of peoples of your ilk trying to force the rest of us to adapt your narrow and intolerant version of morality. There you go again. "People of your ilk." You don't know me, and you make false assumptions of me continually. You exhibit a perfect example of the modern liberal, you can't win your arguments on facts, so you resort to personal attacks and bullying to win your argument. I'm game. I can defend myself. Bring it on. F*****t definition of the pursuit of happiness is all of you having happiness by stopping others from enjoying their rights. Once again, you using the term f*****t incorrectly, not to mention the whole falsehood of your statement. I'm beginning to believe that you are a serial liar.

And don't even start with 'right-to-life.' Too late. Just discussed it earlier. That is the most cynical lie there is in the public domain. That everyone has a right to life? That's not a lie. It's one of the highest ideals of this nation. We are endowed by our creator life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. A******n is the lie, for it would deny life to the innocent. You would execute everyone accused of a capital crime (and would like to increase the crimes under this definition), When have I ever said this? The answer is: never. That would once again make you a liar. whether or not they have valid legal representation, whether or not there is evidence to the contrary, indeed, you would k**l in cold blood someone whose attorney missed a technical deadline. Once again, liar, liar, pants on fire! You do not even care if the accused is innocent or guilty. Lies. This is right to life? You are seriously off base here. I'm seriously thinking you are mentally unbalanced. You do not want to help women who become pregnant, you do not want to provide them with prenatal care, you do not wish to assist the single mother family after the child is born. You do not care if he is educated or given any kind of chance in life. Damn lies. Who died and made you my spokes person? Once he is born, he is 'fair game.' And, when you want him k**led, you k**l him. Hmm, that sounds like a very serious case for libel. I have never k**led, nor wish k**led, anyone. So, once again, you are simply a liar. That is the most insidious and disingenuous, and dishonest use of 'right to life' there is. Your propensity to create these bizarre fabrications is simply fascinating. Surely one could get a doctorate by studying what's wrong with you. What you narrow minded theocratic f*****ts are REALLY saying is, 'don't have fun. If you have fun, pay the consequences. You shouldn't do it. So, you and your child can just live with your mistake.' Some example of morality. There is no example here. This entire paragraph is a complete work of fiction. Furthermore, I truly am worried about the state of your mental health. I'm beginning to think that you go way beyond delusional. You speak of a fantasy land as though it were real. You place me involuntarily into this world and ascribe to me attributes that simply don't exist, and you try to convince us that it is true. No, this goes way beyond delusional.

I do not accuse you of having a delusional mind. I accuse you of having a heartless, soulless, conscienceless mind. That's the difference between you and I. I do accuse you of having a delusional mind. Only a person who is delusional attributes another person as saying something they never said, or for believing something they never talked about. You have done nothing but tell me how I believe since you first started writing on this forum. Almost none of it is true, just as saying I'm heartless, soulless, and conscienceless is completely untrue. You are a peddler of lies. You are so convinced of the t***h of your lies, how can you be anything but delusional?

It is NOT necessary for a corporation to be treated as an individual. Actually, there are many reasons that a corporation be treated as an individual. However, that does not mean that it should share the same rights as an actual individual. There is no reason why a corporation, which huge resources, should be permitted to purchase e******ns. Nor, for that matter, should an individual be able to purchase an e******n. There is no reason why such a corporation should be considered the same as a human being when there is a question of rights being negated. That's true. Corporate rights should not supersede individual rights.

And as for protecting rights because of 'abandon,' I have never used drugs. This statement makes no sense. Please clarify your meaning. I think they are hugely corrosive to society. Anything used improperly can have a negative outcome, but it is not for society to tell the individual how to live their life. All society can do is hold an individual responsible for the consequences of their actions. Drug abuse is a problem, but it is not society's problem unless a law is broken. However, if people want to use them, that should be their business, not yours. Have you ever noticed how you overly personalize this? You frequently make use of the word "you" inappropriately. You attribute to me many things that are unfounded and untrue. Perhaps you need psychiatric help? If not, then you need to take remedial English so that you know how to properly speak. People need to be called to account for their actions to others, not themselves. Ironically, we agree on many issues, but to hear you talk about it, we don't. Judgmental much? If you want to say committing a burglary calls for a five year sentence, and if it was to obtain drugs, a ten year sentence, that is fine with me. If you want to say someone using drugs abuses his family, again, make the DV DV? sentence worse. But if someone wants to curl up and abuse drugs, that is his business, so is his drinking, or smoking, or any other self-destructive action. Criminalize the criminal behavior, not the self-destructive behavior. I really don't understand what your problem is. At least on this particular topic, we largely agree. Seriously, you have issues.

And I feel very comfortable calling you a f*****t as long as you label those of the politically-coerced censorship crowd as liberal. And I call you f*****t for labeling them "the politically-coerced censorship crowd. Two can play the label game. Only one of us is right, and seeing how you have said pretty much nothing that is true, it's an easy bet that I am the one who is right. There is nothing liberal about them, and you are lying every time you call them that. Applying to them the label that they choose is not lying. Their self describing as liberals is a lie, but not calling them what they call themselves. Perhaps you need to read the definition of liberal. So far, I'm the only one who has been providing definitions. You seem to be incapable of figuring out how to do so for yourself based on your frequent tendency to misuse terms. I suspect that would be the case here. However, I have repeatedly stated that self-described liberals are anything but. So please stop agreeing with me. I will not waste time writing it, I suspect you are capable of reading it yourself. I am a liberal, and proud of it. No, you more closely resemble a progressive. You're too close minded to qualify as a classical liberal. Plus your serious disconnect with reality makes it clear that you are incapable of truly being liberal. You are not rational enough for it. The politically-coerced censorship crowd are as intolerant, Intolerant, just as you clearly demonstrate you are. inflexible, Inflexible, just as you clearly demonstrate that you are by self-righteously ascribing to me traits that simply are untrue. and unreasonable Unreasonable, this defines you most clearly. There has been nothing reasonable about anything you have said. Almost everything you have said is a lie. I keep hammering this point. The last thing you are even remotely is reasonable. To be reasonable, there has to be reason in you. But your repeated inability to say anything true is evidence enough that you are not a reasonable person. as the right wing. The fact that you attribute such strong feelings against the "right wing" is further proof that you are an unreasonable person. I actually consider them to be an alternative right wing. This statement makes no sense. To whom do you refer?

An American citizen has every right to deny G-d. I do not agree, and neither do you. They have the right to deny God, but that is between God and them. They will justly pay the price for their unbelief, but it will be at God's hands, not mine. But it is not a public issue, it is a private one. This is where we disagree. Religious belief need not necessarily be private. If you are truly Christian, then it cannot be private as we are commanded to share the good news.

As for censoring Christian statements, you are perfectly welcome to say wh**ever you like (at least for now). But you have NO RIGHT to force your beliefs on others. How can I possibly force my beliefs on others? It simply isn't possible. I can share my belief, but I cannot force THEM to believe. Want to pray? Go to church. Want to pray in public school, do it quietly, and leave those alone who do not agree. "Free exercise thereof", that simple statement is why you are wrong about prayer and religion. There is nothing saying you cannot pray/preach in public, nor that you have to do it in a specific place. There is nothing in the Constitution forbidding prayer in public buildings. Once again, the only thing the Constitution states is that there will not be a national church/faith. PERIOD! It is fanatics such as yourself that prove the point that church and state need to be separate. I do not consider myself a fanatic. In fact, I am far from it. In fact, If I were truly a fanatic, I wouldn't inform you just how delusional you are. In that regard, I'm not being a very good witness, but I am tired of your obsessive and unt***hful abuse. Your behavior indicates that YOU are the one who is fanatical.

Actually, I doubt if you really know what the bible says. You believe in a literal interpretation as if the bible was written in English. The Hebrew bible was written in Hebrew, and some of the later writings were in Aramaic. The new testament was written in Greek and Latin. The old testament was t***slated from Hebrew and Aramaic into Greek and Latin. From these sources, they were t***slated into English. You surely must be intelligent enough to know that things do not t***slate perfectly from one language to the next. You are a fool to claim anything with respect to my knowledge of the Bible. Let me educate you. I am a messianic believer. My congregation is comprised of Jews and Gentiles alike. My Rabbi (which simply means teacher), is a Jewish man who converted to belief in Yeshua over 30 years ago. Our services contain both English and Hebrew. So, I am well versed in the meanings of the words. I have several t***slations of the Bible. Some are literal t***slations, and others are t***slations that convey the actual meaning of the words as they were used when written. I use a Greek-Hebrew concordance to research meanings of words. So, I am well versed in what languages the Bible was written in. I do not claim personal knowledge of these languages, but I have access to experts who do. So do not presume to know what I know about the Bible. You will be wrong.

A perfect example: The sixth commandment. It is "Don't murder." It is NOT 'thou shalt not k**l.' Yes, I am aware of this. Another mist***slation is the 3rd Commandment. It is more correctly t***slated do not make (not take) the Lord's name vain/useless/of no worth. The idea here is not that you shouldn't speak the Lord's name. It is that you should not invoke his name and make it worthless. This is why when Joshua was decieved into swearing peace with the men from the nearby city under HaShem, he could not turn back on it despite the deception. The commandment is two words, don't murder. Murder and k**l are not the same. Did you know this? If you choose to take a literal interpretation of your bible as fact, that is your right. You have NO RIGHT to force the rest of us to accept it. There you go again...assuming facts not present.

I do not claim that people are perfect, any people. Not liberals, not right wingers, and not worshipers of politically-coerced censorship. All rich people live very well, be they Al Gore or televangelists. That has always been the case, and always will be the case. I would not remove wealth from the world. I would, however, hold those with huge amounts of it to account for helping their brothers and sisters. The only statement of worth in this entire paragraph is the last sentence. It is wrong to require of anyone something for the purpose of wealth redistribution. It is immoral. It is theft. It is a violation of the 8th Commandment.

Right wingers usually have no clue what poor people are like. Since you falsely like to lump me in to this category, let me enlighten you. My father was a minister of helps when I was a child. I helped him with his ministry often. I interacted with the poor of my community. In fact, my father placed everything we had in the ministry, so I can easily claim that I was poor. I do not. I use the Biblical definition of poor, and find that there are relatively few in this country who can make that claim. A poor person doesn't have more than the clothes on their back. A poor person has no guarantee of a roof over their head that night. A poor person cannot guarantee that they will eat a meal this day. When you apply this definition of poor, the majority of people in the US fail to qualify by a large measure. However, there are many people outside of Western culture that do fit that description, so if I appear to be indifferent to the imagined suffering of America's poor, that's because there is true suffering outside the US that needs to be addressed. Can they be greedy? Yes. Can they be 'entitled?' yes. They can be many things, but they are people. In my experience, many are, though I am unwilling to claim most. I was a probation officer for many years, and held every one of my charges to their court-ordered requirements. That did not prevent me from observing their conditions, and those of their children. The right wing does not know what is out there, and does not care. That is a false assumption. One, they are aware that they are out there. Two, they disagree with the left as to how much help if any they should be given. Three, they disagree on giving them carte blanche to obtain benefits. There needs to be a better system of verification of true need, and a clearly defined path for getting them off of the assistance. For example, for capitalism to work, there must be an element of unemployed people, or wages will be too high to sustain. Fallacy, cause and effect. In a free market (once again you misapply terms) people will always be coming and going. The assumption in free market theory is that they adequately get matched with a job when they enter the market. That is not how it actually works out. The problem with the market is that there is no uniform measure of sk**ls or how to apply them to jobs. What ends up happening is that a person from HR writes up a requirement of sk**ls for a job without understanding what sk**ls necessarily apply. They use them like buzz words, and think that everything should be based on the latest and greatest. As a result, they create a job description for a fictional employ with a set of sk**ls no individual is likely to have. Furthermore, even if there are qualified applicants, there's no guarantee that they will ever recieve notification of an available job. In short, the system is broken, but this has nothing to do with evil corporations or big government. It's just the inefficient way things are done. So, you would let these people starve because they cannot find employment? There are many private organizations that take care of the poor. They need not go hungry if they are willing to make use of the resources available to them. The government's involvement is unnecessary and wasteful. Private people can do a better job of taking care of the poor if the government would just get out of the way. And people who are injured, and whose work capability is limited, you would allow them to starve? Again, if the government would get out of the forced charity business, then the people would take over and people's needs will be met. It's not a perfect world, but the government largely makes things worse, not better. It was never meant to interfere in an individual's personal life.

I seem to recall a rally last year, by the Tea Party, in which a p**********l candidate asked if someone is dying, and has no insurance, should he be allowed to die? The response was cheering. This is morality? This is depraved. I would have to see the rally in question so that I can get a sense of the context. I cannot accept from you what amounts to an opinion.
Actually, Adam Smith wrote in the late 18th centur... (show quote)
I grow weary of correcting/educating you. Most people get paid to teach. I should start charging you a dollar for every misstatement you make that requires your education. Also, stop attributing to me things that you have no conceivable way to prove to be true. If you were a probation officer, then you should know enough of the law to know what libel is. You have made many statements that could be construed as libel. It would be in your best interest to knock that s**t off.
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May 26, 2013 22:49:47   #
[quote=fmlondon]I will not call you a moron. Wouldn't make it true if you did. Besides, I didn't call you one either. I merely stated that I was beginning to think you are one from your response. I've yet to see anything to change that growing opinion. However, I will point out a few of the typical f*****t principles by which you live and breathe. I'm not f*****t, nor do I live by f*****t principles. The burden of proof otherwise is on you, and you have failed in that regard. There is nothing in the constitution which had anything to do with interstate trade in the first place. Liar, liar, pants on fire! Article 1 Section 8: To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes. That is a product of the late 19th century. Again a lie. There is also nothing in the constitution which makes capitalism the official state economic system. Again you speak in ignorance. There are only two principle types of economy, Statism and Capitalism. For reference, here is their definitions.

Statism : the principle or policy of concentrating extensive economic, political, and related controls in the state at the cost of individual liberty.

Capitalism : an economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations, especially as contrasted to cooperatively or state-owned means of wealth.

When you compare these two definitions, and then READ the Constitution, particularly Article 1 Section 8 and 9, it is t***sparently obvious that the forefathers preferred a system of private ownership, which would explain the absolute void of any reference to state ownership of anything not directly related to the functioning of government. They didn't have the term "capitalism" at the time. It didn't appear for about a hundred years, in the late 19th century. As such, there were originally no laws regulating the economy other than English Common Law. As our country grew and our economic system matured, legislators have had to respond to changes in order to preserve the integrity of our economy. That is why we had to pass anti-monopoly laws and such. The need arose to preserve the best of the economy. However, no law is perfect, and over time our laws have moved us closer and closer to a statist economy. The most recent and worst offending law is the bailout of the banks in late 2008. When the government essentially takes over control of an industry, you no longer have a free economy.


Capitalism, in moderation, is very constructive. Regulated capitalism is a good thing. Regulation is synonymous in this case with moderated. Every system of capitalism is regulated. If there are no outside regulations (read government) then the economy will self regulate, which means that it will do as it sees fit. It's always in control,. The question is under whose control? However, in the 19th century, a period for which you obviously long, FALLACY! You love to use Straw man arguments don't you? You often make such claims about me without one shred of evidence. Often, you make these arguments without my having said one thing about the subject. This makes you a liar. people were k**led, maimed, and disenfranchised because the courts found that a human being and a large corporation are two equal parties. As with everything, court opinion evolves over time. You can't blame the system, only the individuals involved for their personal actions. It is typical f*****t nonsense that business may run rampant over people because a corporation, Stop it! You clearly have no concept of the word f*****t. You bandy it about willy-nilly as though it is some sacred incantation, as though by using the term you may summon it's power. Such thinking comes from a delusional mind. with trillions of dollars, has more power and leverage than any one human being. Regarding them as equal is sophistry. The only sophistry I have witnessed here is your own. The law treats a corporation as a single individual. This is not sophistry. It is a legal decision. A corporation is not a person, but in order to make use of the powers of a corporation, it necessarily must be treated as an individual. Otherwise, the economy as we know it could not exist. There is no fallacy involved here. There is nothing in the constitution which regards a corporation as having the same rights as a human being. There is nothing in the Constitution that doesn't regard a corporation as having the same rights as an individual. That piece of dissembling belongs to the evil right wing. Again, you resort to sophistry. "Evil Right Wing". Calling names does not make it so. But since you digress into the definition of Evil, I submit to you that there is only one author who has the moral authority to define evil, and that is God. As such, all men are evil as they do what is right in their eyes instead of doing what is right in God's eyes. God weighs all sin equally, as all sin prevents men from communing with Him. But since we people love to take measurements, then I can rightfully submit that by measure of the weight of their sins, the liberal left, particularly the left wing, and especially the progressive extremists are the most evil people on the earth. They celebrate self indulgence, and deny God. Thankfully God is not so condemning as people are, nor is He so unforgiving. Why else would he send His only begotten Son to die on our behalf were it not for His love for us? He did so for His sake so that we may have a relationship with Him by faith in His sacrifice for us for our sins, such that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. I will thank you in advance for refraining from further defining who is evil. You clearly are not qualified.

You are right that the censorship of today is coming from the politically-coerced censorship crowd. The right wing is quiet about this for the moment. Traditionally, however, it is the right wing which has banned books, magazines, films, and anything else of which they did not approve. Where is your evidence of this outlandish accusation? History has shown that it is the so-called liberals (democrats) who are the ones who tend toward censorship. My observation of them to this day supports that assertion. They seek to censor Christian constitutionally protected rights to freely exercise their religion. They change the history books to attempt to eliminate inconvenient t***hs about their history...going so far as to "dispense with the customary form of providing citation". I could go on.

As for social services originating from conservatives, I have to ask you whether you are using LSD or mushrooms. Almost all social service legislation dates from the New Deal of Franklin Roosevelt, who proudly called himself a liberal, and subsequent times. Where you come up with such total nonsense is beyond me, except that ideological f*****ts do not have to use logic, might makes right. Use a gun rather than your mind, much easier, much quicker. I am using historical fact...something that you seem to be incapable of. Many things were passed by Roosevelt, but most of it was repealed immediately after the War. Social Security was one of the notable survivors, and there are a few others. Why were they repealed? Because his measures were taking our country back into a recession after the war. Only by abandoning the worst of his legislation were we able to prevent the recession from happening, and so you don't hear about the recession of the late '40s because it didn't happen. Yet here we are, more than 50 years later, and we are trying the same failed experiments again. Unless things change, we are going to see a worse recession than the one experienced during the great depression. This is an economic fact. You cannot defy the laws of economics without paying a price for it, and this administration seems to be incapable of understanding this fact, unless it is deliberate, in which case they are t*****rs.

As for a believer, you are wrong, I am one. Believer in what? I am a messianic believer of many years...almost my entire life. I know what the Bible says, and how a true believer sounds, and you do not resonate with that. In fact, you sound more like a hypocrite. You clearly lean toward liberation theology, which is an a*********n. I could nitpick further, but shall resist. And you are dead wrong on this one. Judaism teaches that everything on earth belongs to G-d. You are clearly a Jew. There is nothing wrong in this. However, you are wrong about saying I am wrong. I never said anything with respect to God versus ownership of all creation. For the record, I agree that He indeed does own everything as He IS the creator. He allows us to use it, but insists that we give generously. This is where you demonstrate your misunderstanding of the nature of God. He does not insist on our giving (other than the tithe, which is His). There is much the Bible has to say on the subject of giving, I could not remotely begin to cover it here. Like I said, the Tithe is His. The tithe is for the storehouse so that there is plenty in time of need. It was also for the cohanim, so that they could faithfully attend to their duties to the Lord. This has nothing to do with giving, however. Giving goes above and beyond the tithe. The purpose of our giving is not because God commands us, but rather so that He may bless us. If we are not cheerful at heart when giving, there is no profit in it for us as God cannot bless us. So, forced giving (through taxation) provides no benefit. He also forbids the destruction of his earth. So, drilling in the arctic, burning coal to hasten g****l w*****g, these are all things which are anathema to him. Yes, God will destroy those who destroy the earth. That is certain. However, not all drilling is destroying the earth, but at this point in history, that point is moot. We have gone too far. I see the earth as a machine. If you take the oil out of an engine, it will violently seize up. I suspect that the increase of earthquakes we have been experiencing globally is the result of oil drilling. It is clear that we need to seek another path. In Israel, it is the law that the first 10% of every crop goes to the poor. This is in replacement of the tithe as there is no temple. As for Christianity, other than the self-serving greedy variety to which you subscribe You love to make false assumptions about people, don't you. You do not know me, nor do you know one iota of what I believe. I suspect you are far more avaricious than I could ever be. Just stop with the personal attacks. They just make you look like an i***t at best, a bully at worst., Christianity calls for people to look after one another. I believe it was JC You mean Jesus Christ? Don't be childish and play these silly games. Just spell His (Greek) name out. I prefer to call Him by his given (Jewish) name, Yeshua, Yeshua HaMashiach. who said something about a camel going through an eye of a needle as more likely than a rich man getting into heaven. This is because no man can serve two masters. A rich man serves his wealth, and will seldom serve God. You are right, it is better for someone to want to give from within. But society does not run on what people think, it runs on what we do. God did not give us the Law to ens***e us. He gave us the Law so that we might be free from sin. Yeshua came to fulfill the prophecies of Mashiach ben Yosef, the servant king. Yeshua is the Messiah. He dwelt within Jerusalem during Pesach, just as the passover lamb dwelt within the house to be inspected for blemish. When brought by the sanhedrin before Pilot for judgement, Pilot found Him blameless. In that regard, he was found worthy to be the sin offering for the world. Read Isaiah 53. It reads just like the New Testament account of how He died for us. At any rate, while His death was important, what was more important was His resurrection that Sunday, the day of first fruits. When he returns, he will fulfill the prophecies of Mashiach ben Dovid, the warrior king, where he will rule and reign over all the earth in Jerusalem for 1000 years. But I digress. For society to force an individual to give charitably defeats the principle of freedom. It is not right that ANY man should tell another how they must use their resources.

I do not know what your paranoid rambling about liberals hiding, being found out, and reinventing themselves is all about. There was no rambling here. Ever since the progressives first revealed themselves at the turn of the last century, they were quickly rebuffed by society for their deranged philosophy. So the reinvented themselves as "liberals" and hid under that moniker. They then pursued their agenda more secretively under the democratic party. It is probably no small coincidence that they have revealed themselves as progressives once again at the dawn of this new century. Their philosophies are still just as deranged as they were over 100 years ago. You really need to study your history. But a liberal believes in helping people. No, a liberal believes in others helping people. Some true believers practice what they preach, but most do not. This is similar to the statement that liberals are for a greener environment. But how can a rational person believe this when your chief representative, Al Gore, lives in a large house consuming well in excess of 10 times the resources of an ordinary household? In the eyes of the world, liberals are natural born hypocrites. This does not necessarily mean enabling them, but it means helping them. Every policy ever adapted for the poor has had the reverse effect of what was intended. It tends to force them to continue living in poverty and gives them little to no incentive to improve themselves to get out of poverty on their own. That's why you have people saying that they "Want their Obama money" or "their Obama phone". It breeds dependence on the government, not freedom from it. That is why it is bad. I believe 'let them die and decrease the surplus population' is not a liberal concept. Actually, "let them die" is very much a progressive concept. In fact, if you read the history of the founders of Planned Parenthood, who were avowed believers in eugenics, you would know that their intended goal was the genocide of "inferior" races, particularly b****s. That is one of the reasons that Planned Parenthood is an ardent supporter of a******n. The goal of all progressives is anti-human. Their intent is to reduce the world population to a much more "manageable" size, say 500 million. But once again, you do not know your history.

As for wealth being a result of opportunity, that is sometimes true. However, often it is through the manipulation of the system in any way possible, ignoring rules, and having tunnel vision about ripping people off. You mean like our politicians are doing? Make no bones about it, both sides of the isle do it. They are also the ones who are directly responsible for creating the economic environment that supports all the corruption we see in the economy. And yes, capitalists (and politicians) profit from it. And, for your information, companies are on record as knowing just what risks they present. Yes, I already said this. It's called risk assessment. Not always, not every incident, but often enough. This has been brought out in court cases. An example of this is the tobacco companies claiming loud and strong for over a century that their products are harmless. Yes, but this was an example of an entire industry LYING about the risk of their product. That's what the problem was. It was also an example with the Corvair, where GM knew full well the wheels could collapse under it for no particular reason, but manufactured it that way anyway. Again, this was an example of a company selling a product with an egregious flaw knowingly. This is another moral failure.

I stick to my story. Those who call themselves, and are called liberal today, are not liberal. Agreed. I do not excuse their actions because, as far as I am concerned, they are wrong and often evil. Agreed. But conservatives not getting violent? Have you never read about the Civil Rights movement? Yes I have. How many dogs were sicked on peaceful demonstrators? I have no way of knowing without research on that specific question. How many sheriffs busted how many heads? Again, needs research. Do you know? B****s who wanted to integrate southern universities were protected by the national guard, for what reason? The KKK was not violent? Ah! Something I can respond to. You mistakenly point to the KKK as conservative. This couldn't be further from the t***h. It is a myth perpetuated by left wing extremists to hide the t***h. They were mostly southern democrats. Again, you really need to read your history. Stop listening to "liberal blogs, and actually dive into the books of the day. Don't read the "sanitized" history books. Go to the original sources. You will find that the world is far different from the one you believe you are living in. The Aryan Brotherhood is not violent? I have no idea what political ideology that they follow, but it clearly isn't conservative. Once again, this is an example of a false correlation. Just saying they are conservative doesn't make it so. All extremists have a tendency towards violence, because reason is not a part of their belief system. Agreed, though you have to use a consistent definition for extremism. Merely hold to a tenet as true doesn't make one an extremist. Their actions do. Most of the violence today is being created by those worshiping at the shrine of politically-coerced censorship, but that has nothing to do with true liberalism. Again, I agree that liberals (as presently defined) are the source of most extremism.

As for relying on government, it is, in theory, all the people have. A business's job is to make a profit. It is not to help people, [color=red]That is because that is what the courts say is a business's responsibility.[color] it is not to clean up the environment, it is to make a profit. Government's job, at least ostensibly, is to act on behalf of its people. You are partially correct. The government's responsibility is to see to the common interests of the people, not special interests. It is to assure fair play in the market. It is to assure our national defense. It is not to assist the poor. That is a special interest. It is not a common need. Unless the government gave the same benefit to everyone across the board, then it cannot be a common interest. Is it perfect? Far from it. But I would rather trust the government, rather than a private entity. If you trust the government, then you have already made yourself its s***e. Just look at what is going on today. The IRS is politically targeting groups. The Justice department is forcibly obtaining phone records from journalists without cause or warrant. In short, the government is behaving exactly like the tyranny that our forefathers created the second amendment to deal with. You seriously want to trust that?! God help you! The beef industry, due to its practices, loads its animals up on antibiotics, because it keeps animals in such a horrific state, that they are eating their own excrement. Then, when these animals are k**led, their excrement sprays everywhere, and is not cleaned off. In the old days, professionals knew how to tie off intestines, and were given the time to do it. Today, using low sk**led labor and a high speed k**l line, the excrement is everywhere, and it goes right into the ground beef, from whence we get e-coli. No argument from me. But this has nothing to do with conservatives vs. liberals. The reason we get e-coli from vegetables, is that this same toxic excrement is used as fertilizer, and rain carries it away onto the plants. None of this happened when we had meat regulations. Again, no argument. But evil minded f*****ts want government to stay out. There's that word again. Stop using it. Here's the definition for f*****m: a political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition. That sounds a whole lot more like liberals than conservatives, but then you'd know that if you actually read the definition of the words you use instead of blindly following some progressive script. Government is the ONLY entity which can stop this. Do I like government? No. But I trust it more than I trust the beef industry. Government is currently our problem, not the solution. The problem is corruption within our government that allows such travesties to happen. But more government will only bring about more of these travesties, or worse.

You cannot legislate bad behavior out of existence. However, you can regulate it enough to make it unprofitable for business to abuse its customers. Agreed, but the trick of it is to regulate enough without squelching freedom.

And while we are on the topic of enterprise, those who run big corporations often have little or no stock in that corporation. They are not even guided by the good of the companies which employ them, they are guided by their own interests, and those have little to do with the consumer or the company. This is why there are no more savings&loans, why Pan Am and TWA are gone, and why the economy has been in a depression since 2008. By the end of the cycle of each f*****t there is always an economic downturn, because f*****t policies do not work. And as for free enterprise earning the money, whether they do it ethically or not is one thing. But if the military and police were not there to protect them, they would not be so rich for long. Evil people do evil. That should come as no surprise. Most people are only motivated by self interest. It is a rare person who is not, and most of the ones I know are all Christians who actually put into practice the teachings of Yeshua.

Did you know that, for the past 80 years at least, the stock market has performed much better under Democratic administrations? That is a fact, look it up. Policies of deregulation are bad all the way around. This is not to say that all regulation is good, or that there is not too much red tape. I know this for a fact. The answer then is to reform the system, not ditch it in favor of greed uber alles. The fact is, if you leave business to its own devices, a few will get extremely wealthy, and the economy will tank. I would have to research your performance claim. I can point out many cases where it is wrong, but I would prefer substantiating evidence to go along with it. The problem isn't deregulation, nor is it regulation. It is unenlightened regulation/deregulation that is the problem. Too many regulations are created without consideration of the consequences. The same is true with deregulation. That is why we get into trouble. It is also why I believe our existing government is unsalvageable. There are too many overlapping and cross connecting regulations. It is a veritable Gordian knot. The only solution is to cut it off, and start over.

Taxes have been a part of mankind since the beginning of time. No one likes them. But they are necessary. It is inexcusable for the poor to pay 28% in taxes while the billionaires pay 15% or less. That is indefensible, and only a hard core f*****t would even try. And there is nothing in the constitution which ties tax rates to freedom. To create policy on the basis that the rich do not have to pay taxes is immoral. You demonstrate yet again your ignorance. You obviously don't understand tax code. The poor pay 28% taxes on their EARNED INCOME. That is the income from their labor. IF a rich man were to work, then he'd pay a substantially higher tax rate on his EARNED INCOME...closer to 50%. The 15% you are quoting is NOT from EARNED INCOME. It is from INVESTMENT INCOME. If the poor man were to play the market by investing his money, then his increases would also be taxed at 15%. However, he is poor, and unlikely to take such a risk.[/quote]

You seem like an intelligent enough person, but you are clearly ignorant of relevant facts. I recommend you go study up so that you can approach this from a position of information instead of ignorance.
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May 26, 2013 01:17:01   #
You reveal yourself. Clearly you are one of those progressives you speak of. And you speak falsely.
fmlondon wrote:
I do not know if you are capable of reading, and comprehending what you are reading, (To begin, you start with what amounts to a personal attack. Not only that, but it need not have been said. Of course you don't know what a person is capable of. That you chose to say that is to imply that they cannot. Therefore it is a personal attack. FALLACY!) but those, today, who are labeled, and label themselves, as liberals are not liberals. This is true. They are not liberals in the classical sense of the word. In fact, they are very anti-liberal by the classical definition. They do, in fact, h**e as much as the right wing, as I have already stated. No, I'd have to say that they h**e much more. Only when so-called "liberals" protest do you see things break out into violence. You cannot escape the weight of your past, and the "liberal" past is one of violence. They started by rewriting the English language without the input or permission of 99% of us. This is true. If you can't persuade people to your point of view, change what words mean so that they are deceived into it. Since then, they have carved a larger and larger part of what used to be liberal thought. The larger it has become, the narrower its tolerance has become. These are NOT the liberals of the 1960s. Actually, neither were the liberals of the 1960's. Progressivism has its roots in the early 20th century, though the ideas that inspired it are much older. They keep changing their name every time they are exposed, but they always get cocky and expose themselves in time...such as they are doing now.

They are progressive in the sense that they do not want people, in the wealthiest nation on earth, to work and not be able to go to a doctor, not be able to afford their medications, send their children to college and bankrupt themselves in the process. Here is where you expose yourself for your true colors. All of this (and much of what you say later on) is pure bulls**t. It's the lie that they tell you to buy into their twisted idea of total governance. It is the eternal trade off of freedom for false security. When you look into these laws designed to give what you propose, there is a lot of control that the government uses to take over your lives. That's what it's all about: control. They know better than you how you should live your life...or whether or not you should be allowed to live your life. Their aims are not so charitable, but go on drinking the kool-aid if you want. They are progressive in that they know that the income tax was designed so that those who could afford the most would pay the most. In the early years, only the wealthy paid taxes at all. Our forefathers did not create a national income tax. That is a modern contrivance. In fact, they completely rejected the idea out of hand. It was progressives and their false doctrine of "fairness" that came up with the current system. There is nothing "fair" about it. Our laws were always intended to be about justice and EQUAL treatment under the law. Equal means that you are treated the same as any other person. So, under EQUAL taxation, everyone would be taxed the same percentage of income. The rich still end up paying more, but they're paying the same rate as everyone else. That is fair. This false fairness that the rich should pay a higher amount is disastrous. It exposes a fundamental lack of understanding of economic principle. The rich create jobs, not the government. Taking money away from the rich reduces the amount they can put back into the economy by hiring workers. So, by robbing the rich man, you are robbing the poor man by default. Where's the fairness in that? There is such a thing as responsibility, something neither the right wing nor the politically-coerced censorship crowd appreciate. politically coerced censorship crowd? You mean the Liberals? After all, they seem to have the monopoly on censorship right now...particularly through the MSM. Responsibility is the one thing that liberals try to avoid. They think it's great for others, but when you try to apply it to them, they cry violation of their rights. This is the reason they want the government to take control of everything...it nolonger becomes their responsibility. Someone else will take care of things...until they don't. That's pretty much the predicament we are in now. Our government is going bankrupt. It cannot afford these nefarious welfare programs. While on the topic of responsibility, welfare is the leading cause of a breakdown in individual responsibility. It encourages people not to improve their lives. And when others see that one person gets something for doing nothing, and that they are the ones paying for it, it encourages them to stop working so that they too can get something for nothing. Eventually you have no one doing anything, and everyone getting nothing. This is the path to economic s***ery. And part of the responsibility, something which is also a part of both Jewish and Christian belief, is that those who are better off need to assist those who are not. This is where you demonstrate that you know nothing of what you speak...principally Judeo-Christian values. If you were a believer, then you would know the fallacy of which you speak. Personal charity comes from within. It is not something mandated by your government and forced upon you. That is not charity. It is theft. That is all wealth redistribution is...theft. Therefore, our country is committing an unlawful act every time you pay taxes, and any of that money is given to another individual. You live in a nation, and receive the benefits thereof. Therefore, you should be willing to be a good citizen and pay your fair share. Again, benefits that are derived off the backs of others unjustly are not benefits. It's s***ery. The purpose of government is to tend to our common interests, not special interests. People who earn more in an hour than most of us earn in a lifetime need to pay a percentage of that to the government which has provided them with the opportunity to make so much money. False. It was not the government that gave them the opportunity. It was the individual(s) who recognized the opportunity and made it happen. The only purpose our forefathers gave to the government with respect to business was to ensure that 1.) people can take their trade from state to state, and 2.) ensure that trade was regulated fairly across state borders. Again, there originally was no taxation on businesses. That came later.

The right wing is irresponsible because of the hypocrisy of wanting to let people starve, who have no objection to all kinds of tax breaks for those who do not need them (and many of whom are on record as agreeing with this assessment). The real party of irresponsibility is the liberal party. To begin, they take credit for most social welfare enacted today. However, when you actually research those programs you find that it was in fact the conservative party who got them enacted. Furthermore, you have a misconception about responsibility entirely. Our forefathers envisioned a country of personal responsibility. That is why they created a government with so very few powers initially. What you would have is for us to substitute personal responsibility for corporate responsibility. When a group of people is responsible, no one is. It will ultimately fail every time. You have no concept of corporate welfare, while decrying personal welfare. Again, corporate welfare will inevitably fail. A perfect example is Texas. You You sure like to say you a lot. Are you directing this at me personally, the reader in general, or Texas? regardless the answer, you are wrong to say you all the time. are the most extreme anti national government state on the planet. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. Yet, you do not pay the most taxes of any state. Again, nothing wrong with that. However, you do receive more of your taxes back from the government than any other state, by quite a large amount as a matter of fact. As a matter of what fact? Besides,why is it wrong to receive more of their tax dollars back? You have yet to prove why taxes are valid to begin with. You do not scream at this disequity, inequity...learn how to spell. I see no inequity here. People who take risks should be rewarded. Those who do not, do not deserve anything from those who do. Period. Moral, take risks, enjoy the payoff. Don't take risks, enjoy nothing. That's fair. but you howl at raising the minimum wage, raising the minimum wage only serves to increase the price index of goods and services. At best your buying power remains the same. In reality, your buying power always decreases. A minimum wage is generally a bad idea. giving tax breaks to those who need it, providing health care (something every single civilized nation on earth does, except for the US) to everyone, etc. Health care is not a right, nor should it be treated as such. Also, it's not as though the nations that provide such health care (civilized? really? try getting help through those civilised health care systems. It takes months and someone else decides whether or not you get it.) do so for free. They also have the highest tax rates in the world. It still comes down to the fact that those with money have access to better care than they can get from these government run systems. All they have to do is fly to America where they can pay for any program they need without having to wait in line. That is selfish, greedy, and irresponsible. No it isn't. It is also unChristian and unJewish. Again you speak of something you have no concept of. Forcing others to pay for something is un-Christian/Jewish. It has to be freely given from the heart for it to be true charity. What you propose is nothing more than government mandated theft.

Another great example is 'tort reform.' Stop the big awards on civil cases. However, again, this is misplaced. When a company manufactures a product, they build in a certain amount of failure. For example, a car manufacturer will note that a certain amount of people will be injured and k**led as a result of their saving money in one location or another. They understand this before they place their products on the market. If all they have to worry about is compensating those who sue for what they have lost monetarily, why would they ever care about making their products safer? 4% fatalities (hypothetical figure). Perhaps 2-3% sue. And all they have to do is pay out the losses. Punitive damages are designed to make the cost of each suit so high, the manufacturers will make their products safer to avoid the suits. 'Tort reform' merely takes, to an even greater degree, access to the courts away from most people. I will respond to this entire block singly. Again, you display your ignorance of tort law, and common sense. To begin, no product can be made 100% safe. It is simply impossible. Corporations acknowledge this and analyze their risk in order to ascertain potential future costs resulting from this imperfection. It's not deliberate malfeasance. It's a simple understanding that the world isn't perfect. Only in cases where it can be clearly demonstrated that deliberate action lead to a defect can it be claimed that any malfeasance took place. In such cases, there should be no limit to the economic recovery a victim can claim, but this is not the majority of the cases. It is the exception. You really need to get an education and stop reading liberal talking points. Think for yourself and stop being a liberal puppet.

Progressives believe that if we must have a government (something which all of us would prefer not to if possible), its primary purpose is to protect its citizens from enemies, both foreign and domestic. So, the terrorists must be k**led by the government, and predatory businesses need to be controlled. Just think, wouldn't it be nice to go to McDonalds and not have excrement in ones hamburger? Only government regulation can ensure this. Just as only government regulation could have saved the savings&loan industry. Businesses exist to make a profit. If they have any ethics it is because they are forced to. Economic disasters such as 1987 and 2008 prove this. The more I read of your writing, the more I think you really must be a moron. All of this is covered by existing body of law. Much of it had sufficient law before it that laws passed after it were mostly redundant. You cannot legislate bad behavior out of existence. All government can do is provide the opportunity for justice when such behavior exists. This is the fundamental problem I have with progressives/liberals. They want to essentially wrap the world in bubble wrap so that it is safe. It is not possible to do so.

Politically-coerced censorship adherents (whom you erroneously call liberals) are irresponsible in that they want to allow every i*****l i*******t to be given every right and benefit of a citizen, AND insist that their ignorance must be pandered to. Rather than insisting such people take responsibility and learn English, they insist the rest of us need to learn to speak their language. They waste scarce resources printing every single government document in their language, and paying people extra to communicate in their language. This is enabling and irresponsible, just as it is irresponsible of anyone to expect to move from any country to any other country and not learn to speak the language. There is nothing progressive about this behavior.

These people are not liberals. They tend to be progressive with regards to issues regarding citizens having rights and protections. However, there is nothing progressive about crippling the security branches of the government, prohibiting them from going after terrorists in the name of politically-coerced censorship. If you are speaking of such people, you are right, they are full of h**e, venality; and are not liberal or progressive.

Those of us who are true liberals believe in hearing everyone out, making government open so we can see what it is doing, protecting the rights of those who are oppressed, either by business or government. And, liberals believe in freedom of expression. We also believe in religious freedom, not establishing either Islam or Christianity as a state religion. Patrick Henry disagreed, but most of the founding fathers did agree, which is why they wrote the bill of rights. The purpose was to protect all citizens of the country, not limit this protection to every conceivable degree. This protection includes the right to bear arms, the right to freely practice their religion (wh**ever it might be), and the freedom to not be crushed by the government. They saw the federal government as the bigger risk at the time, but, subsequently, state governments have often been the perpetrators, which is why the bill of rights has been interpreted as applying to all governments, to keep one state from denying said rights. These are all liberal ideas. I am proud to be a liberal, even if I no longer have a voice in the way this country is run. This is why I believe we need a new political party. Both parties are concerned with their own intolerant agendas, and happily throw us under the bus in order to achieve these agendas.
I do not know if you are capable of reading, and c... (show quote)
At any rate, I grow tired, so I will address the last three paragraphs later.
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May 25, 2013 17:06:17   #
fmlondon wrote:
Stupid, bigoted, aggrandized.


To whom/what are you making that comment?
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May 25, 2013 17:05:42   #
TheC*****r wrote:
Funny how progressive liberals decry their perception of hatred at the top of their lungs, while they themselves promote their own so aggressively.

Is there a word which best describes them?


Hypocrite...for one.
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May 25, 2013 09:07:55   #
*Deleted by author*
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May 25, 2013 02:25:51   #
Well, since you brought up Isaiah, I submit to you that the US is Babylon. Apply that into context with Isaiah, Jeremiah as well.
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May 25, 2013 02:18:20   #
As for ethnic cleansing, the only people who want to eliminate others is extreme liberals. They take h**e speech to a whole new level...advocating for the extermination of those who fall right of them ideologically. That's an awful lot of people.

Well, I guess they're not the only ones. Muslims want infidels eliminated too. Yes, I said muslims. That includes the ones here. Anyone who doesn't, can't or won't understand that fact deserve their fate when the Muslims have the majority.
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May 25, 2013 02:15:54   #
I wouldn't call him an honest Tea Party member. F*****m is not what they are about. Small government, yes. F*****m, no.
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May 25, 2013 01:00:03   #
For the record, The Progressive Patriot is formerly TheChardo.
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