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May 19, 2019 02:17:12   #
jack sequim wa wrote:
I have both been on the end of a miracle and witnessed a miracle. Problem with miracles is people that reject God flatly don't believe. What they will believe is it is all in one's head.

Kidneys do not regenerate period. My wife's kidney was atrophic (sp) or was dieing and shrunk to less than a 1/3 normal. She was left with "when to have it removed".
Later after that news and seeing the scans I had to take her to the emergency room because she was having a kidney stone. They did a scan to verify if it was or was not lodged. She asked how her dieing kidney looked and the doctor said "what do you mean" other than a kidney stone your kidneys look great.
All I know is I prayed for her alot and having many other spiritual experiences wasn't surprised in answered prayers. Believers can accept supernatural intervention but not possible for unbelievers regardless of science saying it is not possible.
I have both been on the end of a miracle and witne... (show quote)

Hi Jack...

Glad your wife was ok... I too know the power of prayer... And I believe in miracles...

Please don't get the idea that just because I accept the theory of evolution as true I am not a believer in the Lord our Father...

For me science brings us closer to God... But we each have our own path...

Pretty cool with the earthquake predictions...
I assume they are occurring fairly deep in the crust?
May 18, 2019 22:35:32   #
Iliamna1 wrote:
That is such a sad story. I hadn't heard about this in our news. I hope all is well with you, Kevin.

It is disturbing...
Especially as the father had made threats on social media and the schools in China are fenced and gated..

Sadly there are a number of such attacks each year in China... School Safety is such a difficult issue...

I am well... Long, easy weekend...

Hope your eye has recovered...

Your friend, Kyle...
May 18, 2019 22:29:47   #
Blade_Runner wrote:
If we are going to "qualify an intrinsic value to the flesh that the soul inhabits", then we must include the meaning of life itself. This is something science alone cannot determine.

The idea that we as living beings can subjectively determine the value of life is ludicrous.

Science explores the biological conditions of life. In religion and ethics, the inviolability or sanctity of life is a principle of implied protection regarding aspects of sentient life that are said to be holy, sacred, or otherwise of such value that they are not to be violated. Some cultures on earth love their neighbors, other cultures destroy them.

Science cannot explain:

1) Existential Truth: Science cannot prove that you aren’t merely a brain in a jar being manipulated to think this is all actually happening (think of something like in the movie “The Matrix”.) It also cannot prove that the world wasn’t created 5 minutes ago with the appearance of age (and with fake memories in your head, and half-digested food in your stomach, etc). However, it’s still rational to believe that our memories are true and that the world is real.

2) Moral Truth: Science cannot prove that rape is evil. While it is possible to demonstrate, for example, that there are negative physical or psychological effects of rape, there is no scientific test that can prove it is evil. Science can describe how the natural world is, but moral truth carries an “oughtness” (how things should be) that goes beyond what merely is.

3) Logical Truth: Consider the statement, “Science is the only way to really know truth.” How could you prove that statement by science? It is actually self-refuting because there is no scientific test you could use to prove that it is true! Science cannot prove logic to be true because it assumes and requires logic in order for it to work.

4) Historical Truth: Science cannot prove that Donald Trump won the 2016 United States presidential election. There is no scientific test we could perform to prove it. We could have an investigation if we wanted to confirm that he did actually win, but the method for proving historical truths is different from testing scientific truths since historical truths are by nature non-repeatable.

5) Experiential Truth: Science cannot prove that your spouse loves you. When asked why so-and-so loves you, you may cite precedent (times when their behavior demonstrates their love for you), but this is a particular type of historical truth. There is no scientific test that can confirm a lifetime of experience of knowing a person.

Apart from some microbes and plants, nearly all the living things in the world reproduce sexually. It is something that we take so much for granted that we don’t realize how much of an evolutionary anomaly it is. An entire half of a species—the males—are unable to produce any offspring at all while still using up the same amount of resources from the environment. Why go through so much effort to develop a mechanism that is a clear disadvantage in the long run?

One of the most favored theories is that sex helps breed out harmful mutations, but that doesn’t seem to be the case. When scientists studied 700 genes of various organisms, they found the number of harmful mutations to be a whopping 0.5 per individual per generation. For the drawbacks that come with it, that is not enough to justify sexual reproduction. As much as we like to have it, sex remains something that we still don’t quite understand.
If we are going to "qualify an intrinsic valu... (show quote)

As noted earlier...
Any such value we could assign would be subjective....
The discussion can help to clarrify and narrow down the parameters of the value...
May 18, 2019 22:18:03   #
Hello Texacan...

Long time...
Hope you are well... And your husband..
Have you finished the move? Settled in?

TexaCan wrote:
I have no doubt that there are many ‘readers’ on OPP that would love to hear your explanation after reading this thread for 44 pages!!!!!!! So....... I am also asking the question and I want to share it with all the other Readers of OPP! You mustn’t demand others to answer your questions and then want to hide your answer to their questions in a PM while all the while discussing this question in this thread for pages and pages!

You make a fair point...
To which I will respond as I have in my PM's to both Blade and Rose...

I am not shy concerning my beliefs... But I don't attempt to proselytize, and I am leery of being attacked by fanatics for having a different understanding from them....

I would also point out that my demand for an answer to my question was prompted by being told an answer existed but not being provided with that answer...
I would have been happy to receive the answer via PM or on the open forum...

Why are you compelled to explain why you refuse to accept that Jesus said that he is THE way and not A way, only in a private PM? Very Curious! Why the secrecy?

Firstly... I have never claimed not to accept what Jesus said... I have always claimed to have a different understanding...

Compelled? Not at all...
Secrecy? Not at all...

But why should I offer up my sincere understandings if I am not attempting to sway others to my beliefs? And can only expect contempt and ridicule in return...

A sincere question: Do you believe that before Blade Runner asked there were any here who were sincerely interested in my understanding? Or were they merely interested in attacking my beliefs and attempting to demean them?

Tommy shared his undstanding and was not treated civily or respectfully...

If base ridicule is all one can expect then I believe one is justified in being selective concerning who one shares one's beliefs with...

Can you accept that individuals, via the exercise of their freewill and reasoning, might have different understandings of the Lord?

And that having different understandings in no way negates or challenges your own faith?

Which allows for all of God's children to engage in civil discussion and grow in understanding of His glory via the sharing of their collective knowledge?
May 18, 2019 21:56:33   #
jack sequim wa wrote:
To think if they are right (non-Christian) we haven't a thing to worry about.
On the other hand if we're right, they have an eternity of hurt on their heads.

I wonder if they ever consider this sobering thought.

What if they are Muslim or Buddhist or Hindu?

And they are right?

Then we would be totally SOL
May 18, 2019 21:47:01   #
Stabbing at school results in boy's death
原创: 李磊 CHINADAILY 6天前

The stabbing death of a third grade boy by a father who said the boy had bullied his daughter shocked the public over the weekend. It also renewed concerns that not enough is being done to contain school bullying.

The Shangrao police in Jiangxi province are looking into accusations that a 41-year-old man stabbed his daughter's primary school classmate following a dispute between the two students, a statement by local authorities said on Saturday.

The statement, released by the government of the city's Xinzhou district, said the suspect, who was identified only as Wang, confessed and was detained. The head of Shangrao No 5 Primary School, where the killing took place, has been suspended from work.

The statement came a day after Wang was held on the school's campus, shortly after the stabbing early on Friday.

According to local media, Wang stormed into the classroom and stabbed the 10-year-old boy, surnamed Liu. The boy was rushed to a nearby hospital, where he died despite efforts to save him.

Local authorities declined to provide details on Wang's motives, saying an investigation is ongoing. But screenshots of text messages circulating online claimed that Wang stabbed the boy multiple times in anger for bullying his daughter, surnamed He.

The screenshots said Wang had complained in a group chat to parents and teachers about He's experience in school, claiming he and his wife, also surnamed He, had attempted to persuade the boy to stop what they said was abuse of their daughter, but failed to have any effect.

Wang also said he and his wife had quit their jobs to take care of their daughter, and he threatened to confront the boy after school, according to screenshots.

However, the teacher in charge of the class and Liu's father said in the chat group that they did not know about any bullying.

The teacher in charge told Wang that he should first inform the teachers of the matter, and that it is the teacher's duty to find out what was happening and deal with the matter appropriately, instead of taking matters into his own hands. Liu's father tagged Wang in the chat group and offered to talk in private, according to the screenshots.

The Commission for Political and Legal Affairs of the Communist Party of China Central Committee said on its WeChat account late on Sunday that it strongly opposes school bullying, and does not regard school bullying only as a small problem among students; but it also opposes seeking revenge through violence.

"No matter what the motives are, there are only law-abiding citizens and those who violate the law," it said.

China has seen a number of bullying cases on campuses that ended in severely injured juveniles. The most recent case involved two first graders in Gansu province who beat up an 8-year-old girl in December and seriously injured her genitals.

Several school officials were suspended from work, but the two wrongdoers were spared criminal responsibility because of their young age.

Zhang Jing, head of the Family Development Research Center at China Women's University, said school bullying is rampant on campuses.

"Factors such as more education about the vulnerability of life and parent-teacher communication could affect the frequency and severity of bullying," she said.

Zhang suggested enacting a law that focuses on campus security to supplement the current legal provisions, which would help tackle the problem at its roots. She also called for more parental involvement in understanding the issue and helping to report potential threats.

I didn't include the screen shots... But one of them had the father of the girl threatening the boy via social media... Telling him that he had better have his parents pick him up from school because the father would be waiting to cause him harm...

Seriously disturbed people do seriously disturbed things...
May 18, 2019 21:26:35   #
proud republican wrote:
Are you surprised???..Im not!!..That's what Democratic Party became...Party of disgusting Assholes!!!

No.... I will not generalize...

There are plenty of Republicans who have made idiotic and/or disgusting remarks...

Civility in politics has become a thing of the past....

I hold this individual alone responsible for his comment...
May 18, 2019 21:18:59   #
4430 wrote:
True Christians won't be surprised ,however the folks that claim to be Christian but don't live it will be the one's that will be surprised

Something to keep ever at the forefront of our minds
May 18, 2019 21:16:56   #
Blade_Runner wrote:
"Devolved into a religious argument"??

85% of the world population have faith in a higher BEING, 1/3 of them are Christian, 2/4 of them are Muslim, and you think a discussion of "being" devolves if religion rears its ugly head???

As the original premise was based in science and regarding the concept of biological "being"... Yes... The use of the word "devolved" is appropriate....

As the Lord is equally responsible for the creation of all natural laws (science), it behooves Believers to be able to make arguments for morality based upon scientific principles as well...

As JW pointed out - no soul has suffered from having its body harmed...

And as PeterS pointed out - natural abortions do occur on a regular basis...

Both premises might lead one to infer that abortion is not actually a sin...

This requires that we qualify an intrinsic value to the flesh that the soul inhabits....
Which is what we are attempting to do...

At which point does a physical body (biological construct) become a "being"?
May 18, 2019 21:05:32   #
jack sequim wa wrote:
Something doesn't come from nothingness.
Atheists can argue but that cannot make sense outside of intelligent design.
Where does God come from? Any Christian that gives an answer other than "I don't know" is babbling. We can only say what we have been told by God.
I would guess that if God gave us all the answers man has questions to, it would take a football statium to contain it. What God did give us was a love letter to man, a road map how to know him and a manual how to live our lives.
It then comes down to another discussion How do I know God is the authority and author of the Bible.
God gives proof of his existence but to prove he is the author of the Bible takes less faith than believing he is not.

The problem is that most people asking to prove God is the author are not interested in the truth but always looking for that "I got ya" which happens because there are so many lazy Christians that don't study the Bible and unable to answer apologetic questions with any amount of informed brain power.
This post however has 4 informed Christians that can address these types of questions.
I would jump in if I wasn't preparing a move from Palm Springs California to Northern Idaho.
If your interested in how I know God is the author of the Bible flag me in a few weeks or ask the question by creating a new topic and I can chime in on a limited basis.

I think you in your beliefs are honest and accept you as a friend on this forum so it would be a good discussion.
Something doesn't come from nothingness. br Athe... (show quote)

I accept you as a friend as well...

And I find nothing false or misleading with what you have written above...(Though I am curious to know if we have the same four in mind )

Will keep your offer in mind... Though I too consider the Bible to be the word of God, it is always enjoyable to grow in knowledge via the understanding of one's brothers..

Have a safe journey.... Idaho is a great State... was born just across the border in the Kootenays..

Your friend, Kyle
May 18, 2019 21:00:28   #
SaintBill wrote:
Has anyone here read the Book of Numbers, lately? It's still in the Bible and hence profitable for the instruction of Christians. Referring specifically to large portions of Chapter 35. Perhaps you may ascribe to the idea, as I did, that the God of the universe has instructions for us individually and separate but equal instructions for those He has set, which are the Basest to rule over us. ( Daniel 4:17).
Please let me know how you reconcile the views you've expressed.

Hi again Bill...

The part that jumped out at me was verse 35:31....
May 18, 2019 20:53:54   #
proud republican wrote:
That Democratic POS said Trump Jr should of been aborted!!!

That is a disgusting comment...

May 18, 2019 20:46:13   #
proud republican wrote:

It won't open...

The title leads me to feel great anger...

Is it justified anger or spin?
May 18, 2019 20:43:07   #
Common_Sense_Matters wrote:
Nice try, I know you are just trying to defuse the situation but... I recognized it as a cart immediately, I know what a cart like that is like, I can tell you, it would make for a very poor walker.

May 18, 2019 20:41:27   #
SaintBill wrote:
Has anyone here read the Book of Numbers, lately? It's still in the Bible and hence profitable for the instruction of Christians. Referring specifically to large portions of Chapter 35. Perhaps you may ascribe to the idea, as I did, that the God of the universe has instructions for us individually and separate but equal instructions for those He has set, which are the Basest to rule over us. ( Daniel 4:17).
Please let me know how you reconcile the views you've expressed.

Hi Bill...

To whom is your post directed?

Please use the "quote reply" button so that we will know to whom you are directing your response...

And welcome to the OPP.... You picked a great thread to dive in on...

Lots of great people on the forum...And even though we rattle each other's cages now and then we are all pretty brotherly...

Take care and enjoy yourself...And I am going to check out Numbers 35 right away.... Will get back to you on it..

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