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Posts for: Zemirah
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Nov 11, 2023 03:35:58   #
manning,

God knew everything that Job would ever do or think, from his birth to his death,
yet, He never violated Job's free will to choose.

In Genesis 15:6, "Abram [even before God renamed him Abraham] believed the LORD, and it was credited to him as righteousness."

"But the Lord said to Samuel, "Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him.
The Lord does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance,
but the Lord looks at the heart." (I Samuel 16:7)

To me, the point is that God is Sovereign.

He is God, and we are not, nor will we ever be.

God allowed Satan to test Job's faith; however, He told Satan that he could not take his life.

God is not running a democracy.

Through His grace, He gave us an option.

Accept by faith, the pardon He offers through Jesus' shed blood,

By which He "paid-in-full" our sin debt penalty of death, - or reject it in p***e,

Believing ourselves capable of climbing to heaven through our own goodness. (Isaiah 64:6;Romans 3:23)

It truly is His way, or the highway [to hell].

Our choice!

manning5me wrote:
First of all, the cast here is God, Satan and Job. God has faith that Job is steadfast in his faith in God. Satan attempts to change Job without success. God, pleased with Job, doubles his wealth. What trials Satan placed on Job is enough to break many men, but not Job.

The lessons here must be at least twofold: what a strong, unshakable faith is like; and, what God will do to make a point to everyone about faith, showing Satan what His followers can do.

Or do I miss the point?
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Nov 11, 2023 02:54:03   #
Marty 2020 wrote:
There’s some neat stuff too like snow chambers and what not. But the big fear is that God may brag about YOU or ME to Satan, but as for me, I’m not going to be anywhere near jobs faith till my last breath.
The new thing I have reconciled with is that job’s kids were good enough for heaven. I’ve ALWAYS been taught that they were not and that’s why they were “taken”.


Marty,

our Salvation, throughout the Old Testament, just as in the New Testament, was always by individual faith, never by good works.

Job's kids were not "good enough," just as we are not "good enough."

Surely, Job instilled in his children the same faith he had almost four thousand years ago
(2,000 years before Jesus became incarnate upon this earth), when Job said:

"I know that my redeemer lives, and that in the end he will stand on the earth.
And after my skin has been destroyed, yet in my flesh I will see God;
I myself will see him with my own eyes - I, and not another.
How my heart yearns within me!"
("Job 19:25-27)

There is only one way of salvation. It is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.
There is not one way to be saved in the Old Testament and a different way to be saved in the New Testament.
That would be two different gospels.
There wasn’t one way for the Jew to be saved, and now a different way for the gentile to be saved.
That would be two roads to heaven.
There’s only one road to heaven. Jesus said: “I am the way, and the t***h, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me” (John 14:6).

In the Old Testament, they were saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, looking ahead to the coming of Christ.
Jesus said in John 8:56, “Abraham saw My day, and he was glad.”
We are saved by looking back to the first coming of Christ, who died on the cross bearing our sins.
In the Old Testament, they simply looked ahead to the coming of Christ.
We all meet at the foot of the cross.
It is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone that anyone is saved.
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Nov 11, 2023 02:25:15   #
https://www.patternsofevidence.com/2023/11/10/oldest-city-gate-unearthed-in-israel/?triplesource=klaviyo&_kx=JjLG1hlO_3D_auYIZM5pVWTi8xyhw5IW5QQP2k639oo%3D.WEfJdA

A gate complex dated to 5,500 years ago uncovered at Tel Erani is now considered the “oldest city gate” by centuries known in Israel, and gives more understanding to the importance afforded to city gates in the Bible.

"Lift up your heads, O gates!

And lift them up, O ancient doors,

that the King of glory may come in." – Psalm 24:7


An Even Older City Gate Discovered

A monumental city gate has been discovered at Tel Erani in southern Israel. The gate is believed by the scholars excavating the site to be at least 5,500 years old, making it the oldest gate uncovered in Israel so far by centuries! The imposing gate structure was built using the usual locally available mudbrick, but surprisingly, it also included giant, imported stone blocks.

The site provides valuable insight to the development of walled fortifications in Canaan that would eventually lead to a land filled with “cities great and fortified up to heaven” (Deuteronomy 1:28) at the time of the Israelites’ conquest. Studying city gates also helps to understand the important role they play in many Biblical accounts.

The structure was unearthed during excavations near Kiryat Gat’s industrial zone in preparation for a new water pipeline installation to provide water to the Intel factory in the region. Plans have been changed and the company has agreed to move the pipe to a different location to preserve the historic discovery.

The excavation not only revealed the ancient gate flanked by two robust stone guard towers, but also a portion of a fortification system with an impressively thick wall measuring up to 26 feet wide in places and just under five feet tall.

What really caught archeologists’ attention was the advanced method of construction with use of massive stones, a deviation from the traditional mudbrick commonly used for building at this time. According to the Israel Antiquities Authority (IAA), this discovery will shed light on the development of urban centers and the expansion of strategic defenses.

“This is the first time that such a large gate dating to the Early Bronze IB has been uncovered,” said IAA excavation director Emily Bischoff, in a video about the gate. “What’s interesting about this gate is it was built partially from mud bricks and partially from monolithic stones, and these stones are larger than me!”

The Early Bronze Age (EBA) is a period of the history of the Levant (countries bordering the east shore of the Mediterranean and the Jordan valley) that historians typically have dated to a span of approximately 3600 BC to 2500 BC.

The EBA is divided into three sub-periods: Early Bronze IA (3600 – 3300 BC), Early Bronze IB (3300-3100 BC), and the Early Bronze II (3100-2900 BC). There are many different ideas about what dates should be assigned to very ancient remains, but on just about everyone’s timescale, these layers would be from long before Abraham.
The city gate in Tel Erani, Israel, was made with giant stone blocks.

Signs of a Growing City

To construct the formidable gate and the fortification walls, huge stones needed to be brought in from considerable distances, perhaps as far away as Lachish, located 8 miles to the east. Plus, hundreds, if not thousands, of mud bricks had to be manufactured. A significantly large group of people working together toward a common goal would be required to accomplish this massive task.

“This was not achieved by one or a few individuals. The fortification system is evidence of social organization that represents the beginning of urbanization,” explained Birschoff. “It’s the first time people go from living all over the region to living inside the city walls.”

City gates served a major function in ancient sites as the necessary entrance to the city for all travelers. Not only did it restrict access, but a powerful gate and strong fortification wall conveyed the message to visitors that they were entering an established and well-organized city, a deterrent for anyone who considered attacking.

“It is probable that all passersby, traders or enemies who wanted to enter the city had to pass through this impressive gate,” said Martin-David Pasternak, an IAA researcher whose area of expertise is the Bronze Age.

The substantial fortification effort most likely started when Egypt began making its presence known in the region, as the process that would lead to the unification of Lower and Upper Egypt began under King Narmer. “At the end of the Early Bronze Age, the Egyptians themselves arrived here, settled the tel, and reused the gate,” according to Pasternak.

Archaeologists have uncovered evidence of Egypt among other smaller artifacts found, including a fully intact alabaster jar, numerous juglets and red-colored bowls. The latter pottery styles discovered at the site are Egyptian in style, providing confirmation of their presence in the area at this time.
Urbanization Earlier Than Thought

“Tel Erani, which is about 150 dunams (37 acres) in size, was an important early urban center in this area in the Early Bronze Period,” said Dr. Yitzhak Paz, an IAA archaeologist specializing in the EBA. “The tel site was part of a large and important settlement system in the southwestern area of the country in this period. Within this system we can identify the first signs of the urbanization process.”

Evidence of urban life found during excavations at Tel Erani include public structures, settlement planning featuring streets and defensive walls, a possible drainage system, and signs of social stratification which indicate varying living conditions based on the social status of individuals, reported The Times of Israel.

The newly found gate is an important find that will affect previously held dates for the beginning of the urbanization process in the country. The dating of the Tel Erani gate pushes back views of the origins of urbanization by several centuries, to around 5,500 years ago.

Prior to this discovery, experts believed that urbanization in this region had begun 300 years later, around 5,200 years ago, coinciding with the age of the previously known “oldest gate” in Israel, which belonged to the well-preserved, fortified city of Tel Arad, located near Beersheba.

Tel Arad was the site of an important discovery Patterns of Evidence reported on earlier. Over 100 ostraca were found, written in Hebrew with a variety of messages, dating to around 600 BC, the period just before Jerusalem and the Kingdom of Judah were destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar and the Babylonians. Remarkably, one of the inscriptions mentioned the ‘King of Judah’ and another the ‘House of YHWH,’ possibly referring to the Temple in Jerusalem.

“The extensive excavations carried out by the Israel Antiquities Authority over recent years have led to dating the beginning of urbanization to the end of the fourth millennium BCE,” explained Dr. Paz, “but the excavations carried out at Tel Erani have now shown that this process began even earlier, in the last third of the fourth millennium BCE.”

The Function of Ancient Gates and Biblical Connections

Gates in the ancient world were far more than entrances to cities and part of the fortification system. Gates were seats of authority where the elders would convene, counsels would be held, judgments would be made, and important messages would be proclaimed.

"And Absalom used to rise early and stand beside the way of the gate. And when any man had a dispute to come before the king for judgment, Absalom would call to him…" – 2nd Samuel 15:2

"He shall flee to one of these cities and shall stand at the entrance of the gate of the city and explain his case to the elders of that city…" – Joshua 20:4

"Now the king of Israel and Jehoshaphat the king of Judah were sitting on their thrones, arrayed in their robes. And they were sitting at the threshing floor at the entrance of the gate of Samaria, and all the prophets were prophesying before them." – 2nd Chronicles 18:9

"Then Pashhur beat Jeremiah the prophet, and put him in the stocks that were in the upper Benjamin Gate of the house of the LORD." – Jeremiah 20:2

"So Ezra the priest brought the Law before the assembly, both men and women and all who could understand what they heard, on the first day of the seventh month. And he read from it facing the square before the Water Gate from early morning until midday, in the presence of the men and the women and those who could understand. And the ears of all the people were attentive to the Book of the Law." – Nehemiah 8:2-3

Discovering the archaeology of gates in ancient cities confirms that they were much more than doorways, they were large complexes (often with outer and inner doors) that served a central role in the life of the city. This helps us better understand passages such as Genesis 19 where Abraham’s nephew Lot was said to be sitting in the city gate of Sodom. Lot was not just on the periphery of Sodom’s society, over time he had been drawn in – to the point where he was an insider sitting in the city gate, entangled in the workings of that wicked culture.

"The two angels came to Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom…" – Genesis 19:1

The History of Tel Erani

Tel Erani, located on the coastal plain, is a multi-period archaeological site with a long and varied history, including links to the ancient Philistines. Various archeologists have studied the area through the years and have identified it with a number of different biblical cities: Libnah, Gath, Mmst, Eglon and Makkedah.

Tel Erani has been occupied since at least the Chalcolithic period and is a classic tel (also written tell), with one settlement built atop the last one, developing into a mound over time. It became more largely settled in the Bronze Age when the city was fortified.

Based on Bronze Age pottery found at the site, archaeologists know that Tel Erani traded with other areas in the region such as the Negev and the Judean Desert. The city was positioned on major trade routes between Egypt and the northern section of the Fertile Crescent (the Cradle of Civilization) – an area covering Egypt, the Levant and Mesopotamia. The foundation of the city preceded other large Canaanite cities that were built during the Early Bronze II period, such as Arad in the south, and in the north Beit Shean and Dan.

Structures in Tel Erani at this time were large and complex, probably built up two stories high, and were constructed of thick brick walls. The homes had a central courtyard with rooms of different sizes attached to it. According to estimates, there were about 3,000-5,000 residents living within the area of the walled city.

Archeological Discoveries of Other Periods

Tel Erani has hosted several archaeological excavations since the mid-1950s, directed by the Department of Antiquities, the IAA, Ben Gurion University of the Negev, and University of Krakow, Poland. These collaborative efforts have unraveled a wealth of archaeological treasures, painting a clearer picture of the past.

Important artifacts discovered on top of the hill (the more recent layers) include 13 seals imprinted on jars with the Hebrew letters LMLK (“L’melekh”), meaning “belonging to the king.” Some of the seals had the city of Mamshit named on the bottom (type “M2D”), with 4 Hebrew letters Mem-Mem-Shin-Tau. The majority of scholars believe these seal impressions date to the 8th-7th centuries BC, around the reign of King Hezekiah. The finding of the seals imply that a Judean administration city was located at Tel Erani.

Conclusion

Today Tel Erani is located on the outskirts of the modern city of Kiryat Gat which was established in 1955. At that time, Tel Erani was thought to be the biblical city of Gath so the city was named Kiryat Gat meaning “Town of Gath.” Since then, Philistine Gath has been identified elsewhere at a site called Tel Tsafit (es-Safi).

The Tel Erani site adds to our knowledge of the land Israel prior to the entrance of the Israelites. It was among the southern Levant’s major commercial and economic centers, standing as one of Canaan’s earliest instances of urban development. Following the latest meticulous excavation, the area was backfilled to ensure the historic gate’s long-term preservation, keeping it safe from erosion and vandalism.

“The discovery of the most ancient city gate known in the country adds another important piece … to our archaeological knowledge,” concluded director of the IAA Eli Eskosido. There are always more exciting discoveries to keep us thinking!
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Nov 9, 2023 09:39:39   #
manning5me wrote:
=======================
I am ignorant of one thing here, if not a million: will many innocent and God-fearing people be sacrificed because of their nation's actions contrary to God's instructions?

manning, the book of Job is considered to be the oldest book in the Bible, written before Moses wrote the Pentateuch (Torah), the five books placed first in the Tanakh, the Jewish Bible (Christian Old Testament).

The book of Job is an important document in history because it focuses solely on the question of why a just God allows the suffering of His faithful. This is a question that has been debated by scholars for centuries, and the Book of Job provides important insight, from God's perspective, upon the matter.

The reality of God’s sovereignty, His love, and His purpose permeates this true story, even throughout Job's suffering, combining to teach much about God and His character.

Job is written in a form of Hebrew that is even older than the ancient Hebrew that comprises most of the Old Testament. The language used in Job is not even referred to as ancient Hebrew, but rather “Paleo-Hebrew.” The book also contains Syriac and Arabic expressions pointing to a period of time between 1900 and 1700 B.C. when the Shemitic tribes had not yet separated into speaking separate Syriac, Hebrew and Arabic dialects, sharing instead, a common language.

Estimated to have been written in the time of the Patriarchs, between 1900 and 1700 B.C. The book deals with similar themes as the Babylonian work “Ludlul-Bel-Nimeqi." Job and “Ludlul-Bel-Nimeqi," however, have very different endings to the stories of their protagonists and are written in different styles. Job is a drama while “Ludlul-Bel-Nimeqi” is a monologue.

In addition to using a language that differs from the Hebrew used in other Old Testament manuscripts, Job also mentions creatures and conditions that are unknown today. The phrases possibly refer to animals that have become extinct or, had become known by a different name in later books of the Bible.

The age of the book of Job can also be found in that which is noticeably missing from the book. There are no mentions of the covenant, the Law of Moses or the priesthood; no mentions of the Israelite people or the Promised Land. Instead, Job offers sacrifices himself, as the priest for his own family, for his sons, as did the patriarchs, without the use of a priesthood, temple or consecrated altar, so, it is at a time before the enactment of the Mosaic Covenant.

His wealth is measured by the size of his herds and the amount of “qesiytah,” unique silver coins, he possesses. Both herds and silver were used as ancient systems of money between 1900 and 1700 B.C. The names of Job’s sons were also uncommon in later time periods but were common before and during the time of the patriarchs.

Although the early chapters of Genesis cover Creation events that happened before Job, the actual written accounts of those events were not recorded by Moses, until long after the book of Job had already been composed. Job is over 400 years older than Genesis, meaning Job is not only the sole drama in the Bible but also the oldest book by far and all the more fascinating for it.

The book of Job establishes the reality of the invisible spiritual warfare that Lucifer, a,k,a, Satan, the adversary, is openly conducting against God and we who were created by God in His own image, and the ground rules set by God, under which Satan must operate.

The story of Job exemplifies the human struggle to understand life upon this earth. Job was upright and unwavering in his commitment to God, yet he appears to lose everything the world deems important - his children, his wealth, and eventually his health. We can relate to his confusion, frustration, and despair, and we can learn from his unwavering faith in God, regardless of external circumstances, for God alone has full understanding, from the end to the beginning.

In the first chapter, Job was a righteous man. He was blameless and upright. He feared God and turned away from evil. He was wealthy. He had 7,000 sheep and 3,000 camels. He had 500 donkeys, 500 yoke of oxen, 7 sons, and 3 daughters.

Due to its unique double focus revealing both God's meeting with Satan (pre-establishing how far and no further Satan is allowed to go in the testing of Job's faith), and Job's human experience of suffering (during which his unflappable faith in His Creator God, never wavers), is a primer to our own reaction to life's events always being centered around out trust and confidence in the God who knows our every deed and thought, and yet, manages to unconditionally love us anyway.

In the final chapter, God doubled Job's wealth:

Job 42:12 The Lord blessed the latter part of Job’s life more than the former part. He had fourteen thousand sheep, six thousand camels, a thousand yoke of oxen and a thousand donkeys.
13 And he also had seven sons and three daughters.

This is the most powerful lesson of all. To double Job's animals required literally doubling their number; to double the number of Job's children, however, required only replacing the original number upon this earth,
for his original seven sons and three daughters await him in heaven.

Job 19:25-27

"For I know that my Redeemer lives,
And He shall stand at last upon the earth;

And after my skin is destroyed, this I know,
That in my flesh I shall see God,

Whom I shall see for myself,
And my eyes shall behold, and not another.
How my heart yearns within me!"
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Nov 7, 2023 18:29:01   #
Marty 2020 wrote:
That battle in Ezekiel 39 will be awesome to behold. Even though a lot of innocent civilians are k**led, it’s the end of some of the Lord’s biggest h**ers.


Yes, and will not this nation of arrogant, overly confident people be one of those receiving fire upon it?
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Nov 7, 2023 18:03:48   #
Marty 2020 wrote:
Yeah but Romans settles it, Justice is mine, I will repay, says the Lord!

"'I will send fire against Magog and upon all your allies who live securely [arrogantly] on the continents and coastlands.' Then they will know that I am the LORD." (Ezekiel 39:6)
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Nov 7, 2023 17:15:29   #
manning5me wrote:
======================
I am not up on Revelations, but from the first act to the last is a period of some 1,000 plus years, isn't that so? Meanwhile...

Jesus’ 1,000-year reign will be a time in which the promises of God will be kept, - promises that God has made to the world. Some, called God's covenants, were given specifically to Israel, others to Jesus, to the nations of the world, and to His Creation.

The Millennium (also referred to as the Millennial Kingdom) is the 1,000-year reign of Jesus, seated on the throne of King David (in fulfillment of God's promise to David while he was reigning) following immediately after the seven years of the Great Tribulation, and, immediately before the Great White Throne Judgment, the final judgment of the damned - all those who refused while living, to accept the forgiveness and reconciliation with God they were offered, purchased for them by Jesus' propitiatory death on the cross at Calvary.

Hebrews 2:17, "Therefore He had to be made like His brothers in every respect, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people."
By taking on human form, and living a sinless life, Jesus was able to offer Himself as an acceptable sacrifice on our behalf, by shedding His blood as He died on the cross.

Romans 3:24-25;6:23 says we "are justified by His grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by His blood, to be received by faith." - "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

In 1st John 2:2, "He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world." This verse reveals the extent of Christ's propitiation. Christ's sacrifice was sufficient to pay in full the sins of every person in the world, - the t***h presented in John 3:16 that God will give eternal life to anyone who believes in Jesus Christ.

1st John 4:10,19 "In this is love, not that we have loved God but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins." - "We love Him, because He first loved us."

During the Millennium, Jesus will reign as king over Israel and all the nations of the world (Isaiah 2:4; 42:1). The world will live in peace (Isaiah 11:6–9; 32:18), Satan will be bound (Revelation 20:1–3), and, at the beginning, everyone will worship God (Isaiah 2:2–3).
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Nov 7, 2023 13:08:01   #
Manning,
Although your answer is that through your parentage - through a military base(s) environment/atmosphere - through military dependents' schools, and, I paraphrase, "It was imprinted upon you," - there had to have been, at some point, an internal struggle and assent.

It is obvious that your most excellent list did not just miraculously materialize... Your autobiography, when written, should touch on the rest of the story of how you arrived at these points.

My answer is both: Born and Bred, then, after many twists and backsteps: Self-Made.

Keeping in mind, Psalm 100:3: "Know ye that the LORD He is God: it is He that hath made us, and not we ourselves;"

Historically, there has never been within the United States, a national political party titled the Conservative Party, however, Conservatism/Classical Conservatism as a political ideology has always been a reality.
===========================================
manning5me wrote:
The fact is I haven't a clue!

In my own case, I know that I was born and bred a conservative in all important domains: fiscal; social; political; military; and foreign policy. This had much to do with the era I was born in, that of the rise of WWII, and my father, who was an Air Force officer, all during my early years. My service was also in the Air Force during the Korean Conflict.

Others could have become conservative by many routes and at different ages; I do not know them or their stories. Well, I do know a few, and I delight in associating with them, but the movement is large enough that no one knows the entire crew.

What makes a conservative? One who wishes to conserve, of course. What do they wish to conserve? Now that is the better question! I can give some short answers to that. And in the process, debunk a standard myth about them. They are not adverse to change, per se, they want changes to our way of life to have excellent attributes that surely lead to their success in the nation with the people. Thus, they want the proposed changes to be most thoroughly rung out in all of their dimensions, and achieving acceptance by the people, before inflicting them on the people. So many changes today are highly suspect and even frightening to the people at large.
So, what are the fundamentals that conservatives have as their normal belief system, according to my thinking on the matter:

1. Belief in God and Christianity, and a strong aversion to atheism and atheists.
2. Belief in Christian ethics and morality.
3. Belief in personal freedoms and liberty.
4. Belief in the Nation as the best in the world.
5. Belief in the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
6. Belief in the American Way and stability.
7. Belief in free markets and free trade.
8. Belief in the work ethic and can-do spirit of the people.
9. Belief in peace through strength.
10. Belief in family and family values.
11. Disbelief in PC, Woke, CRT, T***s, etc. the current progressive ideals.
12. Belief in fiscal maturity and h**e of debt.
13. Belief in equal opportunity for all.
14. Belief in e******y before the law for all.
15. Belief in right-sized government, just large enough to serve the citizenry.
16. Belief in the rule of law itself and being lawful.
17. Belief in tolerance for those who do not believe.
18. Belief, however, that tolerance does not mean
we must cater to every whim or solve every personal problem of the people in the nation.
19. People must be self-standing and responsible for the nation to succeed. They must v**e intelligently.
20. Our children are the future, and they must be raised and educated to carry on the customs, traditions and institutions of the nation, and its way of life. Thy must defend it from the dubious changers they will meet.
The fact is I haven't a clue! br br In my own cas... (show quote)
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Nov 6, 2023 09:46:28   #
Marty 2020 wrote:
I can barely wait!


Waiting to hear that time honored classic request... "Beam me up, Scotty!"
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Nov 5, 2023 19:33:06   #
Marty 2020 wrote:
Speaking of false teachers, you ever heard of doug batchlor or some such spelling, his show is amazing facts. What a crock of fertilizer!


No, I hadn't, Marty.

I just looked at it... and this is part of his introduction:

"Our flagship 30-minute program features the very best of Pastor Doug Batchelor and Amazing Facts programs. Explore the Bible like never before and get practical guidance on Christian living, prophecy, and more. You will find the Bible’s answers to all your questions about life."
============================================

The Bible has been available since the end of the first century, when the book of Revelation was completed.

Jesus is the only mediator between God and man, yet, Doug Batchelor appears to be having illusions of grandeur.

We receive guidance and the answers to our questions by reading the Bible, and praying for understanding, which the indwelling Holy Spirit delivers to our mind, if we will listen.

Why anyone would need Doug Bachelor's answers rather than reading God's word for themselves is, to me, inexplicable, yet, God explains it in I Samuel 8:9-18, by strongly forewarning Israel that there are painful repercussions from desiring a king [or any man] to rule over them, rather than dealing directly with their God.

God had previously said in Deuteronomy 17 that the time would come when Israel would have a king; the Israelites declared that they wanted to have a king because each of their neighboring ethnic groups had their own kings.

Yet, the Lord told Samuel, “Listen to all that the people are saying to you; it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected me as their king. As they have done from the day, I brought them up out of Egypt...” (1 Samuel 8:7-8).

Israel did not want God as their king. They wanted an earthly king in order to indulge in idol worship of false gods just as the surrounding pagan people groups did. Israel did not want to follow God or obey His rules.

Samuel told the people of Israel:

“This is what the king who will reign over you will claim as his rights: He will take your sons and make them serve with his chariots and horses, and they will run in front of his chariots. Some he will assign to be commanders of thousands and commanders of fifties, and others to plow his ground and reap his harvest, and still others to make weapons of war and equipment for his chariots” (1 Samuel 8:11-12).

In addition to these drastic “rights,” this earthly king would also take the women to be bakers and perfumers, he would take the best of each person’s crops, he would take a tenth of each person’s grain, and he would take all women and male slaves for his own use as well as he would confiscate each man’s cattle (1 Samuel 8:13-16).

Samuel also tells the people that this earthly king would take a tenth of each person’s flock and most severely, every person of Israel would become the earthly king’s slave (1 Samuel 8:17).

With words of warning, Samuel ends his message from the Lord to the people of Israel by declaring, “When that day comes, you will cry out for relief from the king you have chosen, but the Lord will not answer you in that day” (1 Samuel 8:18).

Israel insisted on having an earthly king. The people of Israel proclaimed, “We want a king over us. Then we will be like all the other nations, with a king to lead us and to go out before us and fight our battles” (1 Samuel 8:19-20).

The Lord had been guiding, protecting, and giving victory to Israel ever since their exodus from Egypt. Israel had clearly forgotten that they would have never even left slavery from Egypt if it wasn’t for the Mighty Hand of God.

In the future, we will have the perfect King — Jesus. He will rule as King over the entire earth and there will be no boundaries to His rule (Isaiah 9:7; Psalm 72:8).

Just as Israel rejected God as their king, we too can fall into the trap of treating material things, false teachers, people in our lives, or our own accomplishments as our king rather than God Almighty. Israel wanted an earthly king even though they already had God because they wanted to be like the other surrounding nations.

Whatever or whoever the "king” or “god" in our own life may be, we may repent [change], and surrender it to God, rather than conforming to the false teachers of this world who establish false idol/gods and idol/deities in their lives.

Israel will forever be God’s chosen people; regardless of past bad decisions. The Lord our God is the only God, and we must worship Him alone. He will guide us, comfort us, and protect us (Psalm 23).

We, as individuals today have to make the righteous decision as to whether we will reject God, by rejecting Jesus Christ, or choose to accept the Triune God as our righteous and holy King, and listen only to Him.

Jesus is the only perfect King, and He will reign forevermore (Hebrews 1:8).
Go to
Nov 4, 2023 19:11:48   #
The authors of Wikipedia are anyone who wishes to write there, as Wikipedia is open to all, if they will throw up a few sources, i.e., [documentation] agreeing with their own opinion.

To understand Islam, you must start where Muhammad (b.570 A.D.-d.632 A.D.) started proclaiming his garbled demonic visions: in the 7th century northwest section of the Arabian peninsula, not with Jack Philby in the 20th century.

Today, about 85 percent of the approximately 1.6 billion Muslims around the world are Sunni, while 15 percent are Shia, or Shi'ite, not 5%, as you stated, according to an estimate by the Council on Foreign Relations in January, 2022.

The roots of the Sunni-Shia divide can be traced all the way back to the seventh century, soon after the death of the prophet Muhammad in A.D. 632. Most of Muhammad’s followers thought that the other elite members of the Islamic community should choose his successor, they became Sunnis; a smaller group believed only someone from Muhammad’s family—namely his cousin and son-in-law, Ali—should succeed him. This group became known as the followers of Ali; in Arabic the Shiat Ali, the Shi'ites, or simply Shia.

Philby (b.1885 A.D.-d.1960 A.D.), was a very late player on the historical stage of Islam, and a minor one. There is no reason to be obsessed with him. He added nothing to the Socio-Religious straitjacket that is Islam [submission to Allah].

Wahhabism is an 18th century reformist movement within Sunni Islam. It derived from 18th century Hanbali cleric Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab ibn Sulayman al-Tamimi (b.1703 A.D.–d.1792 A.D.) , a Sunni Muslim theologian/scholar/activist, religious reformer from Najd in central Arabia[/b], - the eponymous founder of the Wahhabi movement bearing his name today, who was influenced by the writings of the 13th–14th-century pietist theologian Ibn Taymiyyah, of the strict Ḥanbalī school of Islamic law.

It was ʿAbd al-Wahhāb’s intention to purify Islam of polytheism and to return it to an idealized fundamentalist primitive state. Expelled from his hometown in Najd, he moved to Al-Dirʿiyyah, a village that had never been ruled by the Ottoman Turkish Empire, and obtained the protection and the adherence of its chief, Muhammad ibn Saud.

Despite being opposed or rejected by some of his contemporary critics amongst the religious clergy, Ibn ʿAbd al-Wahhab charted a religio-political pact with Muhammad bin Saud to help him to establish the Emirate of Diriyah, the first Saudi state, and began a dynastic alliance and power-sharing arrangement between their families which continues to the present day in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. The Al ash-Sheikh, Saudi Arabia's leading religious family, are the descendants of Ibn ʿAbd al-Wahhab, and have historically led the Ulama (scholars of Islamic religious doctrine and law in the Saudi kingdom), dominating the state's clerical institutions.

Wahhabism still remains within the general classification of Sunni Islam today.

The term "Wahhabism" is an exonym, - a label given a group or category of people by a secondary person(s), rather than by the people to whom it refers; it was never used by Ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab or by his followers, or other adherents to his teaching, who called themself "Salafi."

Salafism, a.k.a., Wahabism, is a revival movement within Sunni Islam, which has remained influential in the Islamic World for over a century, because it is centered in and promoted by the enormously wealthy and powerful royal family of Saudi Arabia.

Saudi Arabia is an absolute monarchy, and they control Islam's most holy site and artifact: the black meteorite stone - al-Hajar-al-Aswad, which is the very heart of Islam, set into the eastern corner of the wall of the Kaa'ba (cube in Arabic), the ancient cube shaped building, now residing within the Grand Mosque in Mecca, which the Saudi Princes have built around it.

The black stone is Islam's substitute for Jesus Christ. In their annual pilgrimage Hadj to Mecca (required of every muslim, once during their lifetime), the devout try desperately to reach the stone to kiss it, or at least touch it, through the crush of the crowd, and if unable to, they wave at it, believing this cold, dead, black stone will remove their sins.

This is ancient, pagan idol worship #101.
=====================
References:
The Hadj: An American's Pilgrimage to Mecca, by Michael Wolfe
A History of the Arab Peoples, by Dr. Albert Hourani
The Deception of Allah, by Christian Prince
The T***h about Muhammad, by Robert Spencer
The Myth of Islamic Tolerance, by Robert Spencer
Virgins? What Virgins?, by Ibn Warraq
Answering Islam, Dr. Norman Geisler and Abdul Saleeb


[quote=CounterRevolutionary]Zemirah, you state that: "[I] have conjured up so much irrelevant minutia you have blinded yourself to the historical, spiritual reality of what Muhammad was, and into what he devolved."

This accusation should be directed towards the authors writing for Wikipedia, not myself by any means. Zemirah, you must find better sources for your history lessons.

Muhammad was a wealthy businessman reputed for settling disputes amongst merchants, renowned for his honesty and fairness.

Zemira. you are citing the wrong caliphs. Telling half the t***h is a lie.

What is missing from that enormous Wiki list full of superfluous caliphs? It is the simple historical fact that Ibin Saud of Saudi Arabia converted to the original peaceful teachings of the Sunnis, abandoning Wahabah teachings when he discovered Jack Philby was a fraud. The Brits moved Jack Philby to Jordan and he didn't last there very long either. Lawrence warned Parliament "Beware of Philby."

Why King Ibin Saud's conversion to Sunni? Saudi Arabia had to manage the Hadj at Mecca whose millions of pilgrims were Sunnis. [95% of all Muslims are Sunni.]

Who was Jack Philby? He was a c*******t. During WW1, Germany had continued expanding its railroad through the Near East to reap oil and the riches of the Levant with the backing of the Ottoman Empire. The Ottomans had subjugated the Arabs and Armenians for a millennium. Kaiser Wilhelm also funded the Bolshevik Revolution deliberately eliminating Czar Nicolas from Germany's eastern front, promising the Ottomans an expanded empire into Russia's Muslim Central Asian Republics.

The young Turks of the Ottoman Empire mandated the Arab tribes speak Turkish but the Arabs refused any greater assimilation into the Ottoman empire, siding with the Brits who promised Arab independence in exchange for defeating Germany. T.E. Lawrence, who spoke Arabic, was an archaeologist working at the Carchemish digs - later recruited by British Intelligence as a mapmaker. And then WW1 began.

Along came the secret Sykes - Picot Treaty between the French and British Empire double crossing the Arabs, seeking new colonies after winning the war. Jack Philby of Arabia exposed this treaty to Ibin Saud in the midst of World War1 to turn the Arabs against Great Britain and aide Germany, the Turks and Bolsheviks. T.E. Lawrence withheld the double-cross from the Hashemite tribes hoping to reverse this British betrayal.

Not winning independence at the Treaty of Versailles, the Arabs revolted again, especially against the French in Syria. Philby incited Ibin Saud to attack the Hashemite King Hussein. Winston Churchill with T.E. Lawrence returned to the Middle East, undid the Sykes-Picot Treaty, pushed out the French, and granted the Arabs full independence, only keeping Palestine as a British protectorate.

Lawrence returned again to Palestine with Cham Weisman, a Z*****t, to purchase Arab land and jointly create a new Jerusalem. Israel gained statehood in 1947 via the United Nations.

A good history of Jack Philby's treason, the Sykes Picot Treaty, Churchill, Lawrence and Weisman is included in two books: "Lawrence of Arabia: The Authorized Biography" by Jerremy Wilson, (Lawrence did not die in 1935) and "The Letters of T.E. Lawrence" collated by his younger brother Arnold.

Ibin Saud's conversion Sunni teachings is completely skipped on the Wikipedia's "List of Caliphs" site, no mention of Jack Philby's TREASON against the British Empire and his c*******t atheism. His son, Kim Philby was an even more notorious c*******t mole, at that time in China.

Wikipedia is far too often full of obfuscations to overwhelm the reader with superfluous "facts" while deliberately eliminating pertinent facts. The younger generation is too ignorant to know the difference.

The vast majority of Arab nations recognize the Iranian Aetolia and Mullahs as phony fundamentalists as holy as a piece of Swiss cheese, just another c*******t plot. The Arabs of the Middle East, especially the Saudis, would like nothing more than to eliminate the Aetolia and HAMAS once and for all.

The Jews' EXODUS recorded the first s***e revolt in human history, guided by God's Ten Commandments, with the right to individual sovereignty, all equal in God's eyes. The vast numbers of Muslims are like minded, free men in free markets with rights to private property. The Saudi women now have the right to v**e, have driver's licenses and credit cards. Watch out, boys.

Israel and its Arab neighbors have much more in common than the Democrat Party's socialists want to admit as they arm all sides. Joe Biden will not be on the b****t in 2024. His own Party will impeach him.[/quote]
Go to
Nov 2, 2023 10:18:53   #
Sonny Magoo wrote:
I believe Israel to be friendly and sensible enough to get weapons from the USA.
So let's sell to them all they want on credit plus interest.
Use spoils to pay us back.
No more tax dollars. Let's make some money.
How about that?


The United States is by far the biggest exporter of arms to Israel. Between 2009-2020, more than 70 percent of the arms Israel bought came from the US, according to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (Sipri) Arms T***sfers database, which only includes major conventional weapons.

According to Sipri numbers, the US has exported arms to Israel every year since 1961.

https://www.dw.com/en/israel-signs-3-billion-deal-to-buy-us-military-aircraft/a-60301536
Israel signs $3 billion arms deal with US
Nik Martin
12/31/2021December 31, 2021

The Israeli Defense Ministry said it would buy 12 Lockheed Martin-Sikorsky helicopters and two Boeing refueling planes.
======

https://www.cnn.com › 2021 › 05 › 17 › politics › us-israel-weapons-sale › index.html
Biden administration notified Congress of $735 million weapons sale to Israel...
May 17, 202115:55 - Source: CNN Washington CNN — The Biden administration notified Congress of a proposed US weapons sale to Israel worth $735 million earlier this month, according to two sources...
Go to
Nov 2, 2023 09:53:06   #
Some sleepy, easily duped Westerners are willing to accept a benign version of Islam, as you have - too many are, right now.

Muhammad was a warrior, who either sent out or personally went out on seventy-four raids, small assassination hit squads, or full scale wars.

Whitewash is deceitful at best and dangerous at worst, for if or when Islam gets a foothold in a region on the pretense of "peace and love," violent fanatics inflict barbarity on people, especially on Jews.

It is time to stop denying the dark past, found in the Qur'an itself and in the example (hadith) of Muhammad, their "prophet." Many specific verses and passages in the Quran and hadith command violence.

The well documented specific acts and words of Muhammad’s atrocity against the Qurayza Jews happened in the seventh century, a full six hundred years after Jesus lived, died, and was resurrected, to give us a new way of understanding how to live to please God (and such evil events as Muhammad displayed have happened in the history of Islam in every century since).

Muhammad was never a peacemaker. Muhammad was a pig. Muhammad was born in 570 A.D., as a member of the tribe of Quraysh and the clan of Hāshim. Muhammad was an orphan at six, then raised by his uncle, Abu Talib who taught him to be a merchant.

He entered the employ of his first cousin, Khadijah, a wealthy widow, who was fifteen years older than he was. In 595, the two were married, when she was 40, and he was 25. They had six children, only one, a daughter, Fatima, lived to adulthood. Both his uncle, Abu Talib, and his wife, Khadijah died in 619 A.D., before he was driven out of Mecca in 622 A.D., as a false prophet.

The founder of a major religion typically is not a military leader. However, Muhammad (c. 570-632), the false Prophet of Islam, was a man of war. This was how he supported himself and his followers throughout his "ministry," as the dictator of the Islamic movement of conquest from 622 A.D., when he left Mecca, and traveled to Medina (Yathrib).

After acquiring more followers among the Bedouin desert dwelling Arabs, who could fight, he conquered the two peaceful, prosperous Jewish tribes in and around Medina, taking all their land, livestock, and belongings, and exiling them from all Arabia, except for the women he and his men chose to keep as concubines (sex s***es).

In A.D. 627, Muhammad committed an unspeakable atrocity against the last remaining major tribe of Jews in Medina: the Qurayza, who posed no threat to him in any way, which has served as an example to his followers in every country in which they dwell in every century since, as soon as they acquire sufficient power to do so.

Muhammad personally, tirelessly, participated in the beheading of 700 to 900 Jewish men and all the Jewish pubescent boys, of the tribe, the heads and bodies were then d**gged into trenches in the business district of Medina, after which he ens***ed the Jewish women and Jewish children. In doing this, he wiped the entire tribe "off the map," rather than exiling them, to use the recent language of the President of Iran.

Muhammad then returned to Mecca, his hometown, and physically captured it, subduing his own Quraysh tribe, after making a false treaty with them, and betraying them, by ambushing them by surprise.

He died there in Mecca in 632 A.D. as a result of being poisoned by one of the Jewish women, whose entire family he had slaughtered, before raping her, then keeping her as a spoil of war.

In the space of a single decade he had fought eight major battles, led eighteen raids, and planned another forty-eight military operations where others were placed in command, but operating under his orders and strategic direction.

When Muhammad moved to Medina in AD 622, three major tribes of Jews thrived in Yathrib (pre-Islamic name of Medina). When he died in AD 632, no major group was left. In these ten years Muslim polemicists would have us believe that all conflicts were everyone else’s fault, that he was always acting defensively and hence justly.

However, this is absurd on its face, more to the point, when did the Jews ever slaughter Muslim men and boys and ens***e women and children as sex s***es?

He did not have to k**l every man and every pubescent boy and ens***e all the women and children.

Anyone whose mind has not been steeped in a lifetime of devotion to Islam knows that Muhammad’s action was factually and objectively excessive, regardless of the culture in which he lived. Excess is never just, as even Allah himself states when he rebukes his favorite prophet for another of his acts of cruelty (Hadith, Abu Dawud 4357). Sadly, though, Allah celebrated the atrocity in Sura 33:25-27.

Muslim polemical and outreach websites often assert that Islam promotes human rights. It is impossible for them to say this honestly, and at the same time appeal to the origins of their religion.

The evidence in this event alone demonstrates the horrific violence that is embedded in the dark past of original Islam, found in the Qur'an itself. Even a reliable hadith shows Allah reprimanding Muhammad for his cruelties.
===================================
Sources: W. M. Watt, Muhammad: Prophet and Statesman, Oxford UP, 1961, pp. 130-31; 148-51; 166-67; Muhammad at Medina, Oxfored UP, 1956; Sayyid Abul A’La Maududi, The Meaning of the Qur’an, vol. 3; Ibn Ishaq, Life of Muhammad, t***s. A. Guillaume, Oxford UP, 1955, pp. 363-64; 437-45. Ibn Ishaq (d. 767) Tabari, The Foundation of the Community, t***s. M.V. McDonald and annotated by W. M. Watt (SUNYP, 1987), pp. 85-87; 156-61. Tabari (d. 923) ;: Ibn Ishaq; Tabari, The Victory of Islam, t***s. M. Fishbein, vol. 8, (1997), pp. 6-7. Safi-ur-Rahman Mubarakpuri, The Sealed Nectar: Biography of the Noble Prophet, Darrusalam, 1996, p. 201.

CounterRevolutionary wrote:
Keep in mind that Muhamad was known as a peacemaker, not a warrior, a wealthy businessman who studied the Torah for Jewish law, Christianity for charity, and settled disputes amongst his peers during the aftermath of Krakatoa's volcanic eruption 536 AD that laid famine across the Eurasian continent for a hundred years.
Go to
Nov 1, 2023 14:52:17   #
CR, My sources were well cited: the Qur'an, and the Hadiths, the very basis of Islam, wherein Muhammad's life is well chronicled.

Jack Philby's history, I briefly and objectively outlined. That is in no way "championing" him.
With this one line, I told you everything you needed to know about him: "He converted to Islam in 1930."

A caliph**e or khilāfah is an institution or public office under the leadership of an Islamic steward with the title of caliph, a person considered a political-religious successor to the Islamic prophet Muhammad and a leader of the entire Muslim world.

The Sufis are a minority of 5% maximum within Islam. It is a moot point, because they have no Caliph.
There is no way any leader of theirs ever qualified to be "a leader of the entire Muslim world."

You have conjured up so much irrelevant minutia you have blinded yourself to the historical, spiritual reality of what Muhammad was, and into what he devolved.

No one is ever a terrorist until he acquires the power, is presented the opportunity, and willingly ascents to the evil spiritual entity that motivates Islam.

[quote=CounterRevolutionary]I notice you cite no sources for your post above and much of it is flat out wrong.
You look up the three different caliphs and post the source here. Start with the Sufi's.
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Go to
Nov 1, 2023 14:16:26   #
Matthew 7:15-17,28-29 From the Sermon on the Mount:
[Jesus said]"Beware of false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Are grapes gathered from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit."

"When Jesus had finished saying these things, the crowds were astonished at His teaching, because He taught as one who had authority, and not as their scribes.
Marty 2020 wrote:
It’s somewhat entertaining to watch the unbelievers struggle with the Word. I’m occasionally surprised at what I find in Jesus Christ, myself. But only God knows which vessels were made for glory.
Harsh but true.
It’s the vessels themselves, that chooses destruction.


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