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Dec 5, 2022 21:26:29   #
woodguru wrote:
Your idea of freedom of speech allows personal attacks, which leads to a violence in terms of mindset and is not only unnecessary, but dangerous.


Sticks and stones...
Grow up...
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Dec 5, 2022 21:26:11   #
Parky60 wrote:
Actually now that I reread the title it's a little misleading. The "we" was the world that is willing to discuss anything except one and that's the saving grace of faith in Jesus Christ.


Oh...

I have wechat groups for that...
Never tried Gab...
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Dec 5, 2022 21:12:00   #
Smedley_buzk**l wrote:
I don't mean to disparage Canada, but it seems it is not the paradise so many would have you believe.


Much has changed over the past couple of decades...

Feel free to disparage away... We did it to ourselves...
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Dec 5, 2022 20:16:13   #
kemmer wrote:
Secretly.


😂😂😂😂

Yeah...None of my friends are doing it secretly...

We're hoping the border will be open again soon...
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Dec 5, 2022 20:11:24   #
kemmer wrote:
Hahaha… of course they don’t. They have no access to anything but state media. But word is getting out.


How are they communicating with their friends and family outside of Russia???
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Dec 5, 2022 19:58:55   #
nwtk2007 wrote:
If the Ukraine army hadn't hidden in the cities, they wouldn't have been damaged.

In the past, war was waged out in the fields to spare the civilian population. They were called battlefields.


80,000 is an absurd number as well...
The Russians back in Russia don't believe it's anywhere near that...
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Dec 5, 2022 19:48:48   #
TexaCan wrote:
I found a very interesting article! I have no doubt you will deny it………….Or, it was not allowed in China? 🤷🏻‍♀️

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/01/china/china-protests-urumqi-fire-deaths-c***d-dst-intl-hnk/index.html


‘I hold China accountable’: Uyghur families demand answers over fire that triggered protests

By Rebecca Wright, Ivan Watson and Enwer Erdem, CNN
Published 4:20 PM EST, Thu December 1, 2022



Hong Kong
CNN

For more than five years, Sharapat Mohamad Ali and her brother Mohamad had been unable to contact their family in far western China, where the government has been accused of incarcerating up to 2 million Uyghur Muslims and other ethnic minorities in internment camps.

They believe their father and brother are among those detained in the Xinjiang region, so have long been primed for bad news. But when they finally received word about their family on Friday, it was even worse than they might have imagined.

Friends alerted them to social media images that showed the bodies of their mother, Kamarnisahan Abdulrahman, and their 13-year-old sister Shehide, who had died along with three of their other siblings when a fire ripped through an apartment block in Urumqi, Xinjiang’s capital, on November 24.

“I learned the awful news about my family from social media,” Sharapat, 25, told CNN through tears on a video call from Turkey, where she and her brother moved to study in early 2017.

“My mom was such a wonderful woman, she loved to help people,” her brother added.

The tragedy has been blamed on a C****-** lockdown that appears to have hampered both the efforts of rescue services to enter the building and those of residents trying to flee – and was the catalyst for protests that swept multiple Chinese cities at the weekend as people vented their anger at the government’s uncompromising zero-C***d policy.

The strategy, which relies on mass testing, lockdowns and digital tracking to stamp out outbreaks, has failed to contain more contagious variants as China clings to its draconian approach long after the rest of the world has largely moved on.

In Urumqi, which has a population of nearly 4 million, a strict C***d lockdown has been imposed since August, with most residents banned from leaving their homes for more than 100 days.

China’s state-run news agency Xinhua claimed the fire k**led 10 people and injured nine, but reports from local residents suggest the real toll is far higher.

A day after the blaze, Urumqi local government officials denied that the city’s C***d policies were to blame for the deaths, adding that an investigation was underway.

Meanwhile, the local and central governments have largely avoided acknowledging the protests directly.

On Saturday, the Urumqi government said it would ease the lockdown “in stages,” suggesting this was because it had “basically eliminated C***d cases” – despite the city continuing to log around 100 cases per day.

On Monday, Beijing’s Foreign Ministry spokesperson Zhao Lijian said China “has been making adjustments” to its C***d policy “based on realities on the ground.”

A day later, he responded to a question about the arrest and beating of a BBC journalist at a protest in Shanghai by saying the police had “asked people who had gathered at a crossroads to leave.” The ruling C*******t Party’s committee on domestic security also made an oblique reference to “hostile forces” that it suggested were responsible for destabilizing the social order.

This week, a heavy police presence has discouraged protesters from gathering, while authorities in some cities have adopted surveillance tactics used previously in Xinjiang to intimidate those who took to the streets.

As the Chinese security apparatus smothers dissent, the fire victims’ families are demanding answers.

Kamarnisahan Abdulrahman’s nephew Abdul Hafiz, who lives in Switzerland, said Chinese authorities had “left people helpless in a dangerous situation.”

“I want to hold China accountable for this tragedy,” he said. “We all are suffering very much.”

Piecing together a tragedy
From nearly 3,000 miles away in Istanbul, where there is a large Uyghur diaspora, relatives are still trying to piece together exactly what happened in the Tengritagh district of Urumqi – known as Tianshan in Chinese.

Ali Abbas, a Uyghur who left Xinjiang in 2017, owns the apartment on the 15th floor where the fire began.

He told CNN on the phone from Turkey that the fire was sparked by an electrical fault when his granddaughter’s tablet device was charging. The fire spread swiftly through the home, which was filled with wooden furniture, despite attempts by his daughter and their neighbor to douse the flames.

Abbas, 54, said the building’s community staff then arrived and ordered them to evacuate, accompanying them out of the building via the elevator.

But soon after that, the building’s power went down and the elevator stopped working.

Police form a cordon during a protest against Chinas strict zero C***D measures on November 27, 2022 in Beijing, China.
China's lockdown protests: What you need to know
Abbas said that under the lockdown rules, households where someone had tested positive within the past month were locked inside their homes. People in other households were able to leave their apartments, but could not leave the building itself without the help of the community workers.

Chinese state-run tabloid the Global Times reported that a local official in Urumqi denied that the doors of the building were locked, saying “residents have been allowed to walk out on a staggered basis since November 20.” Instead, he blamed residents for being “unable to protect themselves as they were not familiar with the safety exits.”

As the fire spread upward, residents trapped on higher floors posted desperate pleas for help on the Chinese messaging app WeChat, with one woman leaving voice messages saying her family was running out of oxygen. Community workers replied, telling people to cover their mouths with wet towels until the emergency services arrived.

But that help came too late for some.

A video of the aftermath of the blaze shared on Douyin – the Chinese version of TikTok – shows workers in hazmat suits inspecting a scene of blackened devastation.

“What happened to my neighbors is really a big disaster,” Abbas said, breaking down. “I would like to express my sincere sorrow to all Uyghur people, to all those loved ones who lost their family members. I sincerely ask for their forgiveness.”

K**led by zero-C***d?
But for the families of those who perished, the blame for this tragedy does not lie simply with an electrical fault.

Rather, they say, it is the p******c policy that hampered an effective evacuation of the building.

“(My family) became victims of the Chinese government’s zero-C***d policy,” said Abdul Hafiz, 27. “Even the doors of houses were locked from outside. At least if my family could go out of the door or to the roof of the building to rescue themselves, they would have survived.”

The families also say the rescue should have been quicker because the fire station and local hospital are just a few hundred meters away from the building.

Xinhua reported that the fire broke out at around 7:49 p.m. local time on Thursday, and was extinguished almost three hours later at around 10:35 p.m.

Videos show the fire truck aiming a stream of water toward the building, but being too far back to reach the blaze – apparently due to lockdown restrictions at street level.

An Urumqi local official did acknowledge that the fire truck couldn’t get close enough to the building, but said this was because “the road leading to the building was occupied by other vehicles.”

Firefighters spray water on a fire at a residential building in Urumqi, Xinjiang, China, on Nov. 24, 2022.
Firefighters spray water on a fire at a residential building in Urumqi, Xinjiang, China, on Nov. 24, 2022.
AP
Sharapat, whose mother and siblings were on the 19th floor, said her family succumbed to toxic smoke.

“The fire started from the 15th floor, and it poisoned my family members from the smoke,” she said. “The government did not stop the fire in time.”

Sharapat and others also believe the ethnicity of the victims played a part in their deaths. While China has used similar lockdown strategies in other parts of the country – with videos circulating on social media showing people being locked into their homes by welded bars and metal wires – they feel the lockdown in Urumqi has been unusually severe. They also believe that had the fire not been in a Uyghur neighborhood the rescue efforts would have been more swift.

The fire in Xinjiang has been covered in state media outlets and videos have also spread through social media, fueled in part by the unease over the C***d restrictions.

CNN has sent a detailed request to Chinese authorities asking whether C***d measures and policies toward the ethnic minority population were at fault for what happened. No response has been received.

‘If we went back now, we’d be in jail’
The deaths in Urumqi have not only fueled protests in mainland Chinese cities, they have also given rise to a surge of anger from Uyghur families who say they have been suffering under China’s policies for years.

The United States and other nations have described the Chinese government’s actions and camps in Xinjiang as constituting a genocide. China denies genocide, or any human rights abuses, in Xinjiang. It insists the camps are vocational and designed to fight religious extremism.

But CNN has spoken to dozens of Uyghurs and other minorities over the past five years, along with a former Chinese police officer turned whistleblower. Their reports of the camps in Xinjiang included torture, sexual violence, and indoctrination.

Their families who were left at home have reported being subject to forced family separations, surveillance of their communications with relatives abroad, and officials acting as “relatives” being placed in their homes to monitor their behavior.

A previous CNN investigation found that people were being sent to the camps for supposed “offenses” like having too many children or showing signs of being a Muslim – such as not drinking alcohol or having a long beard.

Siblings Sharapat and Mohamad believe the reason their father and brother were not at home when the fire broke out is because they are currently in one of the camps.

CNN has asked the Chinese government for details on the whereabouts of the two men.

Neither Sharapat nor Mohamad feel safe to fly home, fearing they too would be taken away. When they left Xinjiang in early 2017, the youngest of their six siblings Nehdiye, 5, who died in the fire, had not yet been born.

“We want to attend the funeral of our family members, but if we went back now, China will put us in jail or even torture us,” said Mohamad, 22.

Too late for solidarity?
At the same time as the crackdown on the Uyghurs, large numbers of ethnic Han – which represent the vast majority of the mainland Chinese population – have moved into Xinjiang, encouraged to move there by government policies offering them business opportunities, affordable housing and favorable tax policies.

This has fueled ethnic tensions that have been made worse by the perception of many Uyghurs that Han Chinese communities have benefited from their plight.

Demonstrators in Shanghai on Saturday, Nov. 26, protest against China's zero-C***d measures.
Demonstrators in Shanghai on Saturday, Nov. 26, protest against China's zero-C***d measures.
AP
Beijing has claimed that the economic strategy in Xinjiang is designed to promote poverty alleviation in the poorest part of China.

In September 2021, China’s leader Xi Jinping said policies in the region were “completely correct” and “must be adhered to in the long term,” adding that “the sense of gain, happiness, and security” among all ethnic groups had increased.

After the fire in Urumqi, Han Chinese from across the country took part in vigils held for the victims. But for many members of the Uyghur population, traumatized by years of brutality and oppression, this was a show of solidarity that came too little, too late.

“I don’t think that the Chinese people are protesting for us,” Abdul Hafiz said. “They are doing it for their own interests.”

“Since 2016, millions of people were detained in camps,” Hafiz said. “At that time, they did not stand up, they did not help, and they even denied it.”
I found a very interesting article! I have no dou... (show quote)


There are cases concerning that fire going forward... The fire escape was illegally sealed...
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Dec 5, 2022 19:38:21   #
Smedley_buzk**l wrote:
Since it would cost more than the state's entire budget, I hope it's a short look; with Californians you never can tell.


Bro... Look what they spent on a high-speed rail that never got used... Those guys enjoy burning cash...
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Dec 5, 2022 19:36:39   #
TexaCan wrote:
The first one was not supposed to “send”……………I edited it but it didn’t work the first time! I made a mistake! Can you imagine? 😂


Nah...
You'll always be perfect in my eyes

Merry Christmas BTW... Hope you're enjoying the holiday season...
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Dec 5, 2022 19:35:55   #
Smedley_buzk**l wrote:
It's refreshing to hear a counter balance to all the Canadian Health Care promoters. I wonder how efficient Canadian Health Care would be in a nation of 330 million, since it seems to work so efficiently in a nation of 38 million? We have almost as many i*****l a***ns as Canada has people. I wonder how well their system would work if they added several million i******s to what seems to be an already overburdened system?
Canadians seem like nice people, mostly. I wonder why there seems to be difficulty in attracting medical professionals?
It's refreshing to hear a counter balance to all t... (show quote)


My cousin is an oncologist in Spokane...
She took out student loans to pay for her seven years of university in Ontario... Wound up owing ~500,000 Canadian... The government forgave half of that when she graduated... Told her they would forgive another 30% if she agreed to work in Canada for ten years...
She moved to the US and paid of the remaining 250,000 in two years...
This was 20 years ago....

The Canadian healthcare system pays less than half what the US or many European nations pay... While the licensing process is far more difficult than those nations...

Lots of the medical students in my university would like to work in Canada...It as much better than India, Africa, or many ME nations.... But getting the license is a b***h... I know two guys from Kashmir that went over trying to get work in the medical field and are now taxi drivers
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Dec 5, 2022 19:24:02   #
Ri-chard wrote:
From the surveillance?
Tracking Protesters: The authorities in China are using the country’s all-seeing surveillance apparatus to track, intimidate and detain those who marched in the protests. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/02/business/china-protests-surveillance.html?action=click&pgtype=Article&state=default&module=styln-china-zero-c***d&variant=show&region=MAIN_CONTENT_1&block=storyline_top_links_recirc

You are not supposed to agree with the following. No problem knowing who you support.
Today. In central China, students chanted demands for more t***sparency about C***d rules, while avoiding the bold slogans that riled the C*******t Party a week earlier. In Shanghai, residents successfully negotiated with the local authorities to stop a lockdown of their neighborhood. And despite pressure from officials, a team of volunteer lawyers across China, committed to defending the right of citizens to voice their views, fielded anxious calls from protesters.
It's not over, it's a festering sore...
From the surveillance? br Tracking Protesters: The... (show quote)


The court cases will mostly be resolved within two weeks...
Not just Shanghai, lots of communities in Beijing as well...Having lawyers and politicians in the community helps when it comes to negotiations

Haven't heard about another student protest... Guessing it was at one of the universities that still has cases... Or that isn't letting students return home...
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Dec 5, 2022 19:21:58   #
son of witless wrote:
There is a lot to be said for the mighty mushroom. Mushrooms are unique in a very special sense. Though you being as I am the knower of a lot of useless trivia, likely know this. Most of us as we age do not get enough vitamin D. You can get it through sunlight hitting your skin, which in wintertime is problematic.

Vitamin D is also in animal products. So what does this have to do with the mighty mushroom ? I'm glad you asked. The mushroom is the only non animal food to contain significant amounts of Vitamin D. Not a big deal for us carnivores, but those vegans out there might want to up their intake of the delicious fungi during the cold winter months.
There is a lot to be said for the mighty mushroom.... (show quote)


I get my Vitamin D (wrote that as VD the first time😂😂😂) from meat... But I love mushrooms...

We have a unique relationship with them... Live humans eat dead mushrooms, but live mushrooms eat dead humans

Veganism is something I just can't wrap my head around... My body was obviously designed to eat meat
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Dec 5, 2022 19:19:40   #
TexaCan wrote:
Yea right! All those millions of men, women, and children! What crimes did they commit, other than being “ not Chinese” enough? 🥴


Think you mean "not Han enough"...

How did you go from thousands to millions??? Will it be billions next time??
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Dec 5, 2022 19:17:24   #
The Canadian healthcare system is often held up as an ideal that the US should strive to match... But rarely do I meet Canadians who are impressed with the system... The exception being immigrants from third world countries...

Was speaking with my mother last night and thought I'd share these two gems...

First:
About a month ago my mother and her cousin (one of my favorites..Trucker from Alberta) headed down to Mexico to enjoy two weeks on the beach... Their trip went pretty well...Until the second to last day...
My mother experienced intense abdominal pain and went to the hospital...She was x-rayed (within thirty minutes of arrival) and diagnosed with an enlarged gall bladder... She was into surgery within an hour... The doctor told her she was very fortunate as it could have burst at any time...
She was full of praise for the staff and quality of the hospital (Canada is suffering from a lack of medical staff and in some hospitals entire wings are closed)..
When she was discharged the doctor provided her with all the paper work and relevant files, as well as a DVD he had made of the surgery... He told her to check in with her doctor as soon as she returned... Not that he expected complications, but because her doctor should be aware and she should be monitored to ensure that everything was healing properly..
She flew home that day and then contacted the local clinic... Having explained the situation to the receptionist she was informed that the earliest possible date her doctor could see her was December 14 almost three weeks after the surgery... And it would be a phone call..If she wanted to see her doctor in person she would need to wait until Dec 21...
Imagine paying taxes your entire life (and in my home province of BC there is an additional medical fee paid by all citizens on top of tax; calculated by your income) and then receiving such top knot medical services

Second:
My beloved younger sister has finalized her divorce (he was already married when they met and never actually divorced that woman, so it took a while to sort out) and is living on her own with joint custody of the kids (ouch!! They're pretty messed up)...
Anyway, she decided to get a job..Her first in 15 years...
Luckily she has been hired on as a care worker in a home for the disabled... Now, I know you're probably thinking that that's the kind of profession that usually requires a certificate or degree in nursing and a background check... But due to a lack of staff, the home is willing to wave both requirements... Which us good news for my sister...Because she has zero training in medical care and her drug and firearm convictions make background checks an issue.... But they assure her that she can receive training on the job...
I'm sure the clients of the home can look forward to great care from an obese bipolar drug addict with absolutely no work ethic...
But at least it's the government (outsourcing to private companies) that will be assisting them with the fees....

Third: (I know, I said there were two anecdotes, this isn't about bashing the system though)
As Baby Trudeau has announced that Canada will seek 500,000 new immigrants a year for the next five years, I've decided to sponsor a friend... He's completing his Masters in medicine (not sure the specific field; he told me, I just wasn't really listening) and will be looking for work come next summer...
He's an Indian, and a Muslim, with citizenship in Bahrain, which would usually put him on my list of people who should never be allowed to immigrate to Canada.. But he's also a pretty decent guy, has a beautiful fiance who will also be a good addition to my nation, and has his head on right about the obligations immigrants owe their new nations....
Besides, I might move home one day, and having a doctor owing me a favor could be the difference between life and death in that system
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Dec 5, 2022 18:51:06   #
son of witless wrote:
In California the Left Wing nuts try to poison students minds. Who hires these people ?


https://www.foxnews.com/media/california-english-teacher-teaches-kids-grammar-is-part-white-supremacy-undermine-bs


I teach that too

How proper grammar makes an individual a better person...

And how degenerate English like Ebonics is something to be scorned...

Of course, I live in a nation that embraces the ideology that proper education leads to a brighter future
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