jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho

[quote=Ranger7374]http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/04/01/arkansas-passes-religious-freedom-bill-similar-to-new-indiana-law-sparking-more/

Religion vs an act of Human desire.

It amazes me how we have to write a law to keep the government honest, nevertheless, some group is going to have a problem with it.

The law mentioned here protects religious liberty. Although, by true understanding of the Constitution that clearly states:

[b]Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;[B]

people today in both politics and not, are ignoring these words.

Religion is protected not only by the first amendment of the Bill of Rights, but it is also protected in the words of Thomas Jefferson, when he wrote:

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.
But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

(Thomas Jefferson states the grievances)

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our Brittish brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

Without religion, then the logic of the highlighted parts of the declaration, would be empty. With them carrying no weight then the powers that empowered the colonies to break with England, would be no power. Then, the Continental congress could not publish or ordain this declaration.

Now, in respect to religion, religion has certain rites of the human person, in which they govern. These rites are within the sacraments of the Christian religion.

The Roman Catholic Church has seven sacraments which are the right of its members to exercise. They are:

1. Baptism
2. Conformation
3. Eucharist
4. Penance or Reconciliation
5. Anointing of the Sick
6. Holy Orders
7. Matrimony

All Christian religions have a variation of these sacraments and the governing party is that of the religion not these United States. The Constitution and the Declaration refer to religions as the ruling party in issues based upon their sacrament.

Since we are a country with more religions than Christianity, other religious rites are presented, like the rite of circumcision. This is called a Bar Mitzvah.

Now that I stated the long established tradition, there is a movement in the United States today that is becoming very aggressive. This movement is called the Gay or Homosexual movement.

Using the three long established principles of Religion, the Declaration of Independence and Constitution, I will show how this movement is not being persecuted but rather is persecuting.

In human existence all people are given a choice of who they want to be. This choice extends to all corners of human life.

Just in the matter of the old west, where the sheriff stands up against the mob, to protect the accused, so should the Government stand up to protect the people.

The mob in this case is the homosexual community.
The accused is the religions.
The sheriff is President Obama.

President Obama has not fulfilled his duties as president. As what is stated in the first amendment and here in the declaration, the government must remain neutral on all issues of religion. However Obama is not doing that. Instead he is fueling the fire.

President Obama wants to make circumcision illegal. In doing so he has violated both the declaration of Independence, as I highlighted in red, and the Constitution by declaring himself having authority over religion.

The President is not a religion, nor is Congress, nor is the Supreme Court. They must remain neutral.

President Obama wants to redefine Marriage. President Obama cannot define marriage, since marriage has been defined as a "union between a man and a woman" for 4000+ years. Due to this reason, since the institution of marriage, which is governed not by the state, but by the religion of the person getting married, it would not be Prudent to do so. (See the red highlighted statement of Thomas Jefferson in the declaration I have highlighted.)

By assuming authority over religious groups in this manner, he also is now prohibiting the constitutional right of these groups to exist. This is a form of persecution.

The homosexual groups supporting him are supporting the destruction of this great nation. This is treasonous.

These "homosexual" groups claim racism, since when is a race defined by human desire. If this was true, then are murders a race? thieves a race? adulterers a race? liars a race?, false witnesses a race? blasphemers a race? Homosexuality is not a race but it is a lifestyle. For even murderers, thieves, adulterers, liars, false witnesses, and blasphemers have a lifestyle. Some are more desirable then others, but still sin is a lifestyle. But these acts of desire are controlled by not only religion but also governments help religion to control this behavior.

Since this country was built on freedom, why is it more desirable to enslave our selves within the freedom to choose being slaves to our own desire? Is this freedom? Or is freedom, being free from the bonds of human desire? These are all questions of morality.

In the United States, every citizen has a right to own property. A business is property that creates wealth. Business owners have the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason. Just like in most right to work states, the employer reserves the right to discharge an employee for any reason. Just like the employee has the right to quit for any reason.

Because of this the "mob" as in the analogy above has no right to pressure any business on the practices they hold, if they refuse service to anyone for any reason. In this case the mob is not fighting against racism but rather is persecuting the business.

I am quite curious at what you all think. I have related the facts and now wish to hear others input. Are the actions of President Obama acts of persecution against the religions? are the actions of the homosexual community acts of persecution against religion? Are the acts of religion acts of bigotry or discrimination? what say you?[/quote]




IN RESPONSE, MOST EXCELLENT POST!!!
1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

The gay community, uplifted by the occupant of the Oval Office are clearly being lead by demonic powers.

 

Whether it is "hands up, don't shoot," Bowe Bergdhal served with "honor and distinction," or the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, it seems that the American people are all too willing to listen to the hysteria of a biased news media and special interest groups rather than check out the facts. Property has been lost, lives ended, and reputations harmed because an ill-informed public allows lies and misinformation to lead them by the nose to the slaughter house. "Who cares," they might say, "It doesn't affect me." There is one issue, however, where if we as Christians don't start standing strong and speaking boldly as we ought to speak, it will impact generations. Our religious freedom is under attack.

 

When the Founding Fathers of America wrote the Constitution, there was one God in mind--the God of the Jews and Christians. This is what they meant in guaranteeing religious freedom. Much has been written in their own words about Christianity; about being from many walks of life, but generally having the same religion; that God granted us a nation and that it was our duty to elect Christians to serve wisely. Our Republic was modeled after Exodus 18:21, "Moreover thou shalt provide out of all the people able men, such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness; and place such over them to be be rules of thousands, and rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens."

 

In fact, Islam at that time, was considered a strange and evil cult. John Quincy Adams wrote: "In the seventh century of the Christian era, a wandering Arab of the lineage of Hagar, the Egyptian, combining the powers of transcendent genius, with the preternatural energy of a fanatic, and the fraudulent spirit of an impostor, proclaimed himself as a messenger from Heaven, and spread desolation and delusion over an extensive portion of the earth." Thomas Jefferson had to commission a US Navy to fight the Ottoman Empire-sanctioned pirating of US ships and the enslavement of US citizens by the Islamic Barbary pirates. Yet the current "president" infers Islam's influence on early America was a positive one.

 

Your religious freedom, the very keystone of your rights as an American, are under vicious attack. An Islamic Marxist "president," his administration, the news media, the homosexual lobby, the abortion lobby, the Islamists are all pointing the spear at your religious freedom because they know that faith in the one true God is the only bulwark that stands between liberty and their statist goals. No one checks the facts, but it is always assumed the Christian or Jew is at fault. Christianity is not about what God can do for you, it is what we are supposed to be doing for God. When so many are wringing their hands and asking what to do, God has already told us--make disciples, overcome evil with good, speak boldly of the gospel, having done all, stand. Don't wait for a leader. The leader is Jesus Christ and he dwells in you.

Imagine you were playing football against a very determined opponent and a new rule was introduced. According to this new rule of play, your team could actually never have possession of the football. Every time you received a kick-off, or recovered a fumble, or intercepted a pass, or even when you took over on downs, play would stop immediately and possession of the ball would be returned to the other team.

In this scenario you couldn’t possibly win, because you need the ball to score.

In the same way, if we try to argue for our rights to life, or for our liberties, or for the right to be free in our pursuit of happiness—including our right to own and enjoy private property, and including our right to worship, and to speak freely, and to assemble, and to protect and defend ourselves and our family—and we try to make these arguments and defenses without acknowledging that their origin is a Divine one, we are trying to score without the ball.

It’s impossible to make a case for your individual rights without first acknowledging—as our founders did in the Declaration of Independence—the existence of a Creator God, Who is the author of those rights


OUR NATION LEAD BY OBAMA, WHY OBAMA HATES CHRIST'S AND WILL LEAD AN EVEN STRANGER ATTACK AGAINST CHRISTIANS.

Paul said those who practice the gay lifestyle and commit several other sins including deceit will be given over to a reprobate mind (Rom.1:24-32). Because they choose to ignore the truth, God will allow them to lack discernment, good judgment or common sense. He will allow them to become insensitive and to lose the ability to know the difference between right and wrong.

 

Pres. Obama's lifestyle has been less than exemplary. It has been reported that he was given a lifetime membership in a gay bar and bathhouse and that a judge dismissed a libel case against a man who claimed he had sex and used cocaine with Pres. Obama (see World Net Daily; Claim: Obama Hid "Gay Life" to Become President; 9/11/2012). He admits that he used drugs (Dreams of My Father) and was a member of the "Choom Gang" of marijuana smokers in High School. The gay lifestyle.


First, many Christians know that Jesus told a group of Jews, "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it" (Jn. 8:44).

 

Satan is the father of lies and a person's mouth reveals what is in his or her heart (Luke 6:45). Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord (Prov. 12:22). Unlike the Muslim religion that allows lying under some circumstances, blatant and constant lying is a denial of the Christian faith. The person that does it has not been regenerated and is walking according to the prince of the power of the air, otherwise known as Satan (Eph. 2:2).

 

Extreme or abnormal lying comes in my mind when I think of Pres. Obama because he seems incapable of telling the truth. He came on the scene with a forged Selective Service document, a forged birth certificate, a stolen Social Security number and making promises that he obviously had no intention of keeping. He promised to run the most transparent administration in history, but hid his school records, his travel records and his draft records. 

 

He promised to end earmarks, but hasn't. He promised to post bills on the White House website for five days before he signs them, but hasn't. He promised that he wouldn't hire lobbyists, but has. He requested money for shovel-ready jobs that he later admitted didn't exist.  He stood before the United Nations and lied about  Benghazi. He stood before the American people and lied about the cost of health care.

 

He went on TV and said there isn't a smidgeon of evidence that the IRS was targeting his enemies and now some of that evidence has been found. Many more examples are readily available, but this is more than enough to show that Pres. Obama has a better relationship with the father of lies than he has with the God of truth.

Glory be to the Father, in service of our Lord Jesus Christ
as we spread the good news, gospel of salvation as America
Darkens as we near the end of the church age. America not
Mentioned in prophecy for what we witness in the last seven
Years, God’s Judgement upon our once great land has begun
And with increase as obama spits upon Israel. But for my brothers
And sisters in Christ our hope 1 thessoloians 4:16,17 america will
Collapse and be no more, for us a marriage supper in heaven.
Tell all that will listen as servants of Christ, our time is short.

Roxy Loc: somewhere in the US of A

We stand as one united in God! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

MsAtta2d Loc: Oregon

You stated: [quote=Haughty Lib]Again, I don't agree that the definition of marriage was always only between one man and one woman. You cannot produce any verse of scripture which in context addresses same sex marriage]

YES I CAN and you're not going to like it! Romans 1:25-29
25 They traded the truth about God for a lie. So they worshiped and served the things God created instead of the Creator himself, who is worthy of eternal praise! Amen.
26 That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other.
27 And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved.
28 they thought it foolish to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their foolish thinking and let them do things that should never be done.
29 Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, quarreling, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip.
You see, it isn't JUST the sin of homosexuality, it is that along with a host of others, of which all are guilty, that determines the need for God in our lives.
The whole point of this is not simply homosexuality; rather it is the fact that "all men have sinned and fall short of the glory of God". Both you as well as the initial writer seem to have overlooked that one tiny point!
A good rule to remember is when you point the finger of blame at someone else, you are pointing many more back at yourself. There is no use in downgrading anyone for their sins - they are basically all the same, but there are some that God abhorres more than others. Simply get into the Word and study it and you will find that out; but never forget that ALL have sinned - that includes you, me, and the writer you addressed, along with all who read this drivel, because that is what it is. Rather, "study to show thyself approved, a workman who needs not be ashamed, handling correctly the word of truth." 2 Tim. 2:15 Cheers!

jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho

[quote=MsAtta2d]You stated:


Here is the scriptures friend,

Marriage between a man and a woman was instituted by God with Adam and Eve. Genesis 2:24 states: "Therefore a man leaves his father and his mother and cleaves to his wife, and they become one flesh."

In Matthew 19:4-5, Jesus reaffirms this: "He answered, ‘Have you not read that he who made them from the beginning made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one’?"

wheel

why should the minority rule the majority. This is still America right?

wheel

why should the minority rule the majority. This is still America right?

hprinze Loc: Central Florida

==================================

Aside from the bible stuff marriage has been legally defined for hundreds of years as the joining of male and female.

Queers can make legal binding agreements giving them the same rights and responsibilities of bona fide marriage, but to call that marriage is nothing more than an attempt to change the legal meaning of words of the English language. If they can do that, what is to stop people changing the meanings of other words in the English language.

Changing the meaning of words in contracts, agreements real estate transactionss, etc would create chaos.

jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho

Right!! Obama has given them power, judges not honoring the constitution but acting with lawlessness on the side of the [new] democrat party lead by communism/Marxist/progressive/liberal, no longer a Democrat party of liberal and moderates.
Had our legal system acted according to the Constitution, and acted with a moral code of ethics, without presidential support, gays would be powerless and sodomy would be a punishable crime among gay men.

rejection of God and lead by demonic powers is the bottom line.

jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho

There is a movement to redefine pedifiles, so in response where does it stop? An adult man marry an 8 year old female. Perversions we are witnessing increasing in measure, accepted by courts and society are signs as in the days of Noah! Just before God placed his Judgement upon the world in the days of Noah, so again he will cast judgment upon a perverse and evil nation, and world.

Richard94611

I see as a major problem one fact I have noticed in my 77 years: The members of all religions -- and the various factions within each religion -- rarely have the same opinion. This is certainly true of Christianity.

While you may advocate this or that action towards gays, there are always going to be people within your own religion who disagree with you.

You may take all the Christians in the United States and place them in a line long enough to reach the moon, but the one thing they will never reach is an agreement.

Ranger7374 Loc: Arizona, 40 miles from the border in the DMZ

You know PeteS we argued about this before in "God vs. Evilution." However, like you said, hahahaha, good one, you are sick for a few days and yes Obama did go nuts.

Look at what he has done:

Challenged Arizona SB1070
Alabama wrote a similar law--States have the right to defend themselves

Indiana wrote legislation to defend religious freedom
Arkansas followed suite
and lo and behold, Obama is against it(Oh what a surprise) and who is supporting him the Gay and Lesbian crowd. What a surprise there.

Okay fine. If everyone is so, upset about the marriage laws, then why doesn't the public take marriage out of the law. This is becoming the only solution that is logically sound.

But no they don't want to do that. It is not profitable then.

People who say marriage is a "union between a man and a woman" are not going to compromise that.

The opponents of that, are not going to compromise, same sex marriages.

So the only solution is to take marriage out of the law.

In other words destroy the entire institution. And while we are at it because both sides are so polarized, and ready to take up arms upon thier view, why not out law marriage, the family and such.

Human beings cannot follow the simple rules, do you really think they will follow a more complex law.

Human beings cannot follow thou shalt not commit adultery, let alone define what the term means.

For Christ's sake, the Lord presented to Moses ten simple rules to follow, and Just like Moses I would take those ten laws and throw them at the people!

New declaration, the Mother and Father in a family no longer need to be married.

The family no longer exists because there is no binding relationship.

Hell lets take it a step further.

Since there is no marriage then there is no such thing as adultery. That gets that problem out of the courts.

Then it would not be wrong if a man or a woman cheats on someone because what would you be cheating the person? There is no marriage, therefore no one is cheated against. Therefore no adultery.

At this point in the analogy, what would the point be for schools if they are only instituted to increase learning. But no we must and it is now a must that we can engage in every form of sexual activity. There is no marriage so who cares, you are not making a family for there is no husband nor wife to become a father or a mother. There is no family, for hell now we can abort the child. And don't worry about the old, when they are too old to have sex, we will just then euthanize them.... for this would be called population control.

Don't think this analogy is accurate?

In 1985, it was unheard of, in fact a joke, that Gay Marriage would be an issue, Now in 2015, its an issue.

You know PeteS, I love battling you intellectually, for I have learned a lot more about the subject matter we discussed. You pushed me and I pushed you in our learning, However, How far will Obama take this?

crazylibertarian Loc: Florida by way of New York & Rhode Island

Everyone is missing the legal points in the Indiana case here, even the Indianans, their governor & likely presidential candidate, Marco Rubio & all the talking heads; any kind of discriminaton is not unconstitutional & in violation of no natural law. It is only illegal. The laws against discrimination in private exchanges free market are unconstitutional

The current flap is based upon the 1964 & 1965 Civil Rights bills. The target was racial discrimination. The progressives justified both through the regulation of interstate commerce clause, a distortion of both the wording & the intent. At the time they were passed, no one in his right mind would have thought they'd be mangled to justify what is happening with the entire LGBT situation.

But no matter who the intended target is, what is not under discussion, and should be, is what these bills do to individual & private property rights. They are full frontal assaults on them and no one, not Gov. Pence, not Sen. Marco Rubio is saying that such decisions are no business of the government's. They are not advocating that discrimination is the right of both parties in any volunatary & free market exchange.

That's the lesson, no one has the b---s to say it & until someone does bring it right out into the open, governmental assault on our privacy rights will continue.

Ranger7374 Loc: Arizona, 40 miles from the border in the DMZ

That's true.....Wow! Good post! :thumbup:

MsAtta2d Loc: Oregon

Amen - but maybe that is a bit too obvious for him?? LOL It is plastered all over the Bible, and especially with the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.

Ranger7374 Loc: Arizona, 40 miles from the border in the DMZ

With the exception of the Fall of America, What an awesome post! :thumbup: :thumbup: