JimMe

We Atheists don't believe in a God or gods...
We aren't looking for Heaven or avoiding Hell...
We can understand there is a Natural order to Life...
But here come the sticky parts...

The Natural order is that when we die, that's it... As far as we - the Human Entity - are concerned our life ends at death & we are no more...

It will be - if we Atheists want to be totally honest with ourselves - AS IF WE NEVER EXISTED...

We Atheists must then acknowledge to ourselves that - as far as we can ever tell - NOTHING REALLY EXISTED BEFORE WE WERE CONCEIVED...

When we can come to grip with these thinkings WE CAN SAY WE'RE ATHEISTS... Till then we should claim to be Agnostics...

BOHICA

And if you have a soul? What then?

mcmlx

I just can't understand how anyone can look at the complexities of our bodies, or the way all of nature is designed, and not see that GOD created them.
Seems clear cut to me.
MCMLX

BOHICA

Oh, they see it. They simply reject it because of pride. It was Satan's downfall, just as it is theirs. They cannot bring themselves to submit to a higher authority. They want to be their own gods.

JW

I'm not an atheist but I am agnostic.

The problem I have with most atheists isn't that they don't believe in God, it's that they believe there is no God. Their belief system is as firm as the most ardent religious believer... but they just can't see it.

For the religious folks here, you may feel better 'knowing' all about what motivates atheists and agnostics but you are quite far from the mark.

Atheists are motivated by the same things that motivate you, they believe the know the truth.

Agnostics are motivated by accepting that they do not know the truth.

bylm1-Bernie

Agreed.

chuckybrass

Hmm, As a Christian, I can relate to all of the thoughts above as practical and logical.

However, in my logic, I cannot think of ANYTHING in my life that has not happened for the benefit of me. Even when I thought things were "bad", when I view them later, they always turned out to have a benefit.

Next, I have to view the human existence: how did I "happen" to exist? As a gambler, I would have to say the odds of my existing by chance are virtually less than 1/100th of a percent when I consider every other living creature. How fortunate I would be, indeed!

After accepting that I exist, I have to consider how I exist: How did I beat the odds by being so well made. Have you ever weighed the odds of having your digits, your balance, your vision, your hearing, your mobility, your immune system, the ability of a body to heal its' self? All of these attributes are pretty remarkable, I would say. Just a few of the many considerations of the human body. We haven't even gotten to the math of intelligence. How did we get lucky enough to understand and do all that we do? Why can't apes do as much as us? What are those odds? How did we manage to get the genetic soup that we did out of the gene pool? How about those odds? If I were to gamble against the existence of God on all of this merit, the odds of winning would be better if I played poker, drew five cards, and let the dealer have the remainder of the deck. The odds cannot even be calculated or quantified. The house would nearly always win.

My environment would be the next practical consideration: How did I get lucky enough to exist on THIS planet? Look at the temperature swings. Look at the atmosphere. Why did I not exist on a 300 degree planet, as opposed to this one. What are the odds of happening on this planet? Once again, wouldn't take odds on that hand.

Some will argue that we exist because of this planet. I would say that the odds of continuing to exist on this planet would be less than equitable, considering all of the war and pestilence in it's past. This world was wonderfully made. I cannot fathom the odds of accidental seasons, or variable temperature. We have a broad spectrum of temperature on this earth, and the human body actually adjusts to accommodate changes in their climate.

If life is so happen chance and nonchalant, why do all fight so hard to preserve it? Was it not better as worm food before you were exposed to the effort, hate, and discomfort attached to this life as the "atheist" in me should be able to rationalize? After all, the atheist didn't feel any of these uncomfortable things before birth, according to him/her. Why is it not easier to just die, atheist? Why do you value your life that you say is so worthless?

I am not here to harp, but rather want you to see the odds against your existence without some kind of intervention. Maybe aliens put us here for all I know, but they would also be considered a "god" of some kind to others, wouldn't they?

I believe in the one true God. Period. That is mine to keep. I believe in the Bible. You can accept it as a history book if you would rather. I assure you it is inerrant --- much more accurate than any of the garbage taught in the university history books as we speak. Philosophically, I would put it up against any life improvement book on the market. Much better than any paperback on any shelf anywhere.

Being an atheist would be the saddest existence in the world. You are ALL alone. You didn't exist yesterday, not sure you exist today, and can't know about your existence tomorrow. You can't be sure if anyone really loves you, and if they do, do they really exist? Did they really love you yesterday? You are facing a hopeless end. Very depressing. Why do you even bother to get out of the bed?

Closing thoughts: 1) If you are a true atheist, and all of what you say is true, why is it so important to you that you need to sway others to believe in "nothing"? I understand Christian doctrine, but find it hard to understand why people that have no doctrine are committed to making sure that others believe in their non-belief.
2) I believe that all problems today exist because of the sins of mankind. I truly believe the Garden of Eden was a perfect place until the apple was eaten. It has been all downhill since then.

I apoligize for rambling. I'm just a simple man, and thought I would humbly offer this to any that are interested. Not a pastor or a rocket scientist. Take it for what it is if you have a need. I am sure there are lots of other considerations to take into account.......

rebob14

Paul said that Christians........."see through a veil dimly, we know in part and we see in part". We hold the promise; "in the life that now is and the life that is to come" I'll take that over spiritual chaos anyday!!

chuckybrass

Totally agree!

amvaap

You have free choice to be and to call yourself whatever you want. Are you suggesting that your choice has some kind of "purity" to it that is being violated by the free choice of others to be and to call themselves whatever they want ? For the record, I'm a believer in a creator and that all things were created by him. I also believe that creation is in a fallen state and in need of redemption because of the incorrect use of free choice.

JimMe

I'll find out... Won't I!?!

JimMe

Actually, what I was saying was that almost all Atheists aren't Atheists at all... That they are Skeptical of a God BUT AREN'T SURE... & THAT IS AN AGNOSTIC...

And as far as I'm concerned... My Atheistic Belief is My Own... I HAVE NEVER CRITICIZED OR DENIED ANYONE ELSE THEIR RIGHT TO BELIEVE WHAT THEY WISH - Provided it doesn't harm anyone...

chuckybrass

Pascal's Wager

The wager uses the following logic (excerpts from Pensées, part III, §233):

God is, or God is not. Reason cannot decide between the two alternatives.
A Game is being played... where heads or tails will turn up.
You must wager (it is not optional).
Let us weigh the gain and the loss in wagering that God is. Let us estimate these two chances. If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing.
Wager, then, without hesitation that He is. (...) There is here an infinity of an infinitely happy life to gain, a chance of gain against a finite number of chances of loss, and what you stake is finite. And so our proposition is of infinite force, when there is the finite to stake in a game where there are equal risks of gain and of loss, and the infinite to gain.
But some cannot believe. They should then 'at least learn your inability to believe...' and 'Endeavour then to convince' themselves.

You make the call........

JimMe

We both struggled to understand our existence... You found your answer in God... I simply gave-up the struggle & have no answer... And I'm at peace with myself...

chuckybrass

Well said, but I would urge you one to another to continue your search. You continue to grow on a daily basis. Life is a journey --- what we glean from the trip, will determine to a great degree what we discover upon arrival to our destination...