There is no doubt that foreign manufacturers have opened auto plants inside the USA. Some are union and some are not. But the point everyone misses when they tout this fact is that the profits go overseas and the better jobs go overseas. Yes we pick up some assembly line jobs but the engineers, draftsmen, designers, aerodynamic experts etc. are usually back in their home country. Did PBS mention that? Is that what you want for America? Should we be the worker bees only? Buying an America auto is better for America than buying a foreign auto. I don't care where the foreign product was made. I think you are making assumptions about unions in these foreign auto plants. From what I have read they are few. Which BUSTS your argument wide open . Maybe you should watch more FOX and less PBS. You would have known few of these foreign plants are union.
The claims in the Forbes article are laughable since the US Auto industry was in decline long before GW Bush.
UAW's Devastating Defeat in Tennessee: Four Blunt Points
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-02-17/uaws-devastating-defeat-at-a-tennessee-volkswagen-plant-four-blunt-pointsDETROIT The United Auto Workers union is positioning itself as a car company partner rather than an adversary as it renews a campaign to sign up workers at U.S. plants owned by foreign-based car companies.
Yet Bob King, the union's president, says it will play tough with Toyota, Honda, BMW, Hyundai and others if they don't agree to secret ballot election principles that the union is backing. Companies that don't sign on to the principles will be branded in as human rights violators, King told an industry group last week.
The UAW has had little success the past 30 years in organizing workers at U.S. factories owned by Japanese, Korean and German auto companies. The companies built factories mainly in southern states such as Tennessee, Alabama, Mississippi and Kentucky that are generally not as union-friendly as the UAW's home base around the Great Lakes. Many pay wages comparable to UAW-represented factories owned by Detroit automakers, but the foreign companies have avoided UAW work rules that
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/autos/2011-01-13-uaw-organizing_N.htmMercedes Alabama plant violated law by stopping union from handing out literature, board rules
http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2014/12/mercedes_alabama_plantviolated.htmlNon-Union Automakers
Conversely, their rivals the German Big 3 (Volkswagen, Mercedes-Benz, and BMW) and Japanese Big 3 (Honda, Toyota, and Nissan) have gained volumes in the market since the downward spiral the 70s brought on for American auto manufacturers.
Being non-unionized has certainly given these global competitors an advantage. The Japanese Big 3 succeeded in having enormously lower health care costs (compared to GM) in 2007 which resulted in a $14 billion profit. And because they are not associated with unions, these manufacturers have the opportunity to flux production with the demand. Although decreased production may involve layoffs and terminations, in the long run, they are saving millions not having to shell out to laid off employees like the UAW does. Non-unionized companies also have considerably lower wage expenses and dont face the risk of strike (read: no $1 billion strike fund to tend to).
These companies, (particularly the Japanese who focus on small, everyday use vehicles and the Germans whose hub is the midsized luxury sector), have really latched onto the new global market place. Looking to the future, they have succeeded in predicting trends and producing reliable, high quality, fuel efficient vehicles. Theyve done so well in fact that Toyota overtook GM in sales and production in 2008.
American manufacturers and the government have tried to counter this strong international influence in the auto industry by laying import restrictions on Japanese and Germany non-unionized manufacturers. However, both overseas Big 3s have successfully opened new plants in the southern United States, providing jobs for many Americans.
In reality, the Japanese Big 3 are on top and it looks as though they might remain there since SUVs dont quite fit in with the new, more environmentally conscious consumer. In order for the American union to continue to provide for their employees and compete in a global market place, they are going to have to renegotiate and change their ways to keep up with the quickly and ever expanding automotive industry of today. Only time will tell
http://www.autobytel.com/car-buying-tips/new-car-buying-tips/union-vs-non-union-auto-manufacturing-104195/Yeah TOTALLY destroys my Argument
straightUp wrote:
Hey... I just happened to see a program on PBS that exposed an interesting fact about the auto industry. Apparently, all those factories belonging to U.S. automakers that were shut down in the 70's and 80's were replaced by even MORE factories that were owned by foreign automakers like VW and Toyota but were nevertheless located right here in the U.S. and employing American UNION workers. First thing I thought about was how that totally destroys your argument about unions destroying the American car industry. I mean TOTALLY.
Then I thought, wait a minute... Do conservatives actually watch PBS? Is PBS even on their strict diet of right-wing propaganda? Isn't PBS one of those "communist" channels? So, I decided to ask the Internet in general, a simple question. "where did America's car manufacturing jobs go?"... Guess who answered right away? Forbes did. I figure OK, Forbes is a well-known voice of Wall Street... certainly THEY can't be communist too.
So, I checked this out...
http://www.forbes.com/sites/johntamny/2013/07/21/the-unions-didnt-bankrupt-detroit-but-great-american-cars-did/In this article, the author points out early on, that bailing out the industry was a bad move... OK, even better - I actually never took a position on that issue, but you made it pretty clear that you thought the bail outs were a bad move... so far you and this author seem to be on the same page... THEN he goes on to say that what killed the "Big Three" wasn't the unions or liberal politics but the weak dollar, which he traces back to President Nixons mistaken decision (one oddly encouraged by American carmakers) to delink the dollar from gold in 1971. Oh-oh... :(
And remember how I mentioned the oil peak in 1974? Yeah... so check this out... the author goes on to say that
"a fiat dollar in the 70s coincided with a weak dollar, oil is priced in the latter, and with the dollar in freefall, gasoline prices naturally soared. Expensive petrol prices made that way by faulty U.S. monetary policy robbed the Big Three of their market advantage." Granted, he's not actually putting any blame on the oil peak but he IS blaming monetary policy for decreasing the dollar's ability to buy gasoline... and the U.S. oil peak
DID shift supply chains over to OPEC right about the time that was happening. I was just focused on another part of the same problem this guy is talking about. Either way... The massive increase in foreign cars being made in America is pretty hardcore proof that unions and liberal politics are the wrong trees to be barking up.
I thought this was interesting too. (hoping your not sick and vomiting in the toilet yet)
The Reagan 80s and Clinton 90s during which monetary policy was mostly sound gave the Big Three a renewed lifeline (oddly former GM CEO Rick Waggoner lobbied for a weak dollar), but their revival proved short lived. The George W. Bush administration, staffed by mercantilists of the Paul ONeill variety, questioned the importance of sound money on the way to a falling greenback, high gasoline prices, and a sagging Big Three; Chrysler and GM in such bad straits that they required bailouts nearly five years ago.Gee, maybe that explains that stock split and the $1.7b in interest payments mentioned in that GM Death-Watch-181 article that you already shot yourself in the foot with...
(although valiantly, you limped on carrying the banner
'you can't blame the investors ...for bailing out a company that needed the money ...but you CAN blame the government for doing the same thing ...that is, if the idea comes from Democratic leadership.)
Whether by government or market investors the solution was the same - give them money to... "retool" I think was the term you used - and the problem was certainly no different. As you said yourself, The auto industry was in trouble before the fiscal crisis. Indeed it was and now we know... big thanks to conservative politics. (as I stand and sarcastically applaud)
Hey... I just happened to see a program on PBS tha... (
show quote)
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