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TP/Koch vast network of Dark Money
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Sep 11, 2014 13:17:40   #
Tasine Loc: Southwest US
 
Dave wrote:
Let's see now, no problem with a Buffet who manipulates financials in order to defer, delay and avoid taxes in the process of attaining great wealth for himself and other 1%'ers, while maintaining close relationships with politicians in order keep the complicated tax codes helping him in his efforts - doesn't bother you. Gates who used his companies leverage to create monopoly like market share while having his company hire legions of lobbyists is okey dokey - but those nasty Koch's who run businesses that provide goods and services in open competitive markets also engage in lobbying and politics scares the heck out of you - interesting selective outrage.
Let's see now, no problem with a Buffet who manipu... (show quote)

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It's actually quite simple, Dave. The progs are wimps who cannot tolerate a single player on the field who MIGHT have as much to say as the progs have to say. And they get damned panicky if it seems that single player on the right happens to be FAR more intelligent than their sleaziest player. They are such gutless wimps that they are terrified of one single solitary conservative going about his life NOT toeing the commie line. IOW, put succinctly: they WILL dominate all conversations, all meetings, all news outlets, all activities, all approved speech, and above all all legalities with which that they can litigate and FORCE their wishes on the millions who think they are insane; they are dead ducks as they are a severe minority in the US and cannot make it a week if they must play by the same rules as everyone else.

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Sep 11, 2014 13:42:18   #
Airforceone
 
DennisDee wrote:
Some of them amaze me each post



:lol: :lol: :lol:


You idiot I never said the federal reserve collects taxes. The IRS collects taxes. But they can't collect corporate taxes because they can't with all the loopholes in our tax system. Why do you think the GOPTP decrease's the IRS budget. To prevent them from having the capabilities to collect taxes. I can't help the fact that you lack any common sense

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Sep 11, 2014 13:47:28   #
Dave Loc: Upstate New York
 
tdsrnest wrote:
You idiot I never said the federal reserve collects taxes. The IRS collects taxes. But they can't collect corporate taxes because they can't with all the loopholes in our tax system. Why do you think the GOPTP decrease's the IRS budget. To prevent them from having the capabilities to collect taxes. I can't help the fact that you lack any common sense


Posting such stupidity while calling another an idiot is an irony you'll never understand.

Corporations pay about 20% of all income taxes collected.

The GOP does not control the federal budget alone, so could not control the IRS budget.

The size of the IRS budget has nothing to do with creating loopholes - which is why you claim corporations don't pay taxes.

The tea party members of the House don't even control that half of Congress.

Your lack of both knowledge and logic is pretty good evidence that you have the lack of common sense you attribute to others.

Reply
Sep 11, 2014 15:25:47   #
Airforceone
 
Dave wrote:
"campaign reform in America started well over 100 years ago.."

That is your opinion - it is not law - and it is not even valid - there are many opinions on what constitutes reform and they go back to the beginning of our country.

"You seem to want to debate constitutional law regarding citizens united .... I would rather not... I'm not a constitutional lawyer and I doubt you're one ..."

You may not want to discuss constitutional law while discussing Citizen's United but that is exactly what the issue was regarding that case. While neither you nor I are constitutional lawyers, we are citizens of a country that says constitutional questions are finally decided by the US Supreme Court. One need not be a lawyer to understand what that court decided.

While you claim to be an independent you seem only concerned with Koch money being spent. Meanwhile, if you really understood what libertarians represent - smaller and less intrusive central government - you'd understand that is the only real way to limit money in politics. Where there is little to sell there is little interest in buying.
"campaign reform in America started well over... (show quote)


Libertarian is for smaller smarter government. To debate citizens united is a waste of time because it just becomes a political argument left or right.

I did a little research and not sure that it was true. But I found comments when Carter Reagan had excepted public funds they each received $10 million for there respective campaigns. Ran a series of public Debates the American people had a good idea through truth as to who to vote for.

Dark money was not legal at the time and any donation were made public. Now we have billions in dark money both left and right corrupting the political system with phony ads and propaganda sites that do not give actual agenda of any politician.

Reply
Sep 11, 2014 16:35:25   #
Airforceone
 
Dave wrote:
Posting such stupidity while calling another an idiot is an irony you'll never understand.

Corporations pay about 20% of all income taxes collected.

The GOP does not control the federal budget alone, so could not control the IRS budget.

The size of the IRS budget has nothing to do with creating loopholes - which is why you claim corporations don't pay taxes.

The tea party members of the House don't even control that half of Congress.

Your lack of both knowledge and logic is pretty good evidence that you have the lack of common sense you attribute to others.
Posting such stupidity while calling another an id... (show quote)


The GOPTP in the house decreased the IRS budget how can you deny that. The house holds the purse strings in our government. That's what caused your IRS phony scandel they did not have enough agents to check the super pacs and how they were spending tax free $. I can't believe the ignorance of a person like you.

Reply
Sep 11, 2014 16:35:25   #
Airforceone
 
Dave wrote:
Posting such stupidity while calling another an idiot is an irony you'll never understand.

Corporations pay about 20% of all income taxes collected.

The GOP does not control the federal budget alone, so could not control the IRS budget.

The size of the IRS budget has nothing to do with creating loopholes - which is why you claim corporations don't pay taxes.

The tea party members of the House don't even control that half of Congress.

Your lack of both knowledge and logic is pretty good evidence that you have the lack of common sense you attribute to others.
Posting such stupidity while calling another an id... (show quote)


The GOPTP in the house decreased the IRS budget how can you deny that. The house holds the purse strings in our government. That's what caused your IRS phony scandel they did not have enough agents to check the super pacs and how they were spending tax free $. I can't believe the ignorance of a person like you.

Reply
Sep 11, 2014 19:03:40   #
wolfman113 Loc: Illinois
 
I didn't have two days to your rabid diatribe.
I have one question. Do know Michael Bloomberg and George Soros? It turns out the fiasco Gov. Rick Perry was accused of was nothing more than trying to get people to believe that he's a crook. Who was this funded by none other than George Soros. He gave that stupid group TFP $500,000 to smear Gov Rick Perry? Are we going to play who's got this and that? We can top each other all day long but for what purpose?

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Sep 11, 2014 19:14:46   #
emarine
 
Dave wrote:
Let's see now, no problem with a Buffet who manipulates financials in order to defer, delay and avoid taxes in the process of attaining great wealth for himself and other 1%'ers, while maintaining close relationships with politicians in order keep the complicated tax codes helping him in his efforts - doesn't bother you. Gates who used his companies leverage to create monopoly like market share while having his company hire legions of lobbyists is okey dokey - but those nasty Koch's who run businesses that provide goods and services in open competitive markets also engage in lobbying and politics scares the heck out of you - interesting selective outrage.
Let's see now, no problem with a Buffet who manipu... (show quote)


I thought Buffett said on national TV he paid 14% and that was wrong because his secretary paid in 28%.... so you're saying that was BS and the guy is just another snake.... he must be related to Koch who pays in 11%.... And Gates did not hire the same law firm that proved to America that smoking cigarettes was not bad for your health in the 70's to prove that global warming was false.... We all know how the smoking thing ended up :thumbup:

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Sep 11, 2014 19:40:15   #
Airforceone
 
emarine wrote:
I thought Buffett said on national TV he paid 14% and that was wrong because his secretary paid in 28%.... so you're saying that was BS and the guy is just another snake.... he must be related to Koch who pays in 11%.... And Gates did not hire the same law firm that proved to America that smoking cigarettes was not bad for your health in the 70's to prove that global warming was false.... We all know how the smoking thing ended up :thumbup:


There just working within the system created by the GOPTP. Don 't you remember Buffet saying it was wrong and the corporate Elite and the wealthy should pay more, or are you just an out of touch GOPTP vote against your own interest moron

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Sep 12, 2014 09:03:38   #
Dave Loc: Upstate New York
 
tdsrnest wrote:
Libertarian is for smaller smarter government. To debate citizens united is a waste of time because it just becomes a political argument left or right.

I did a little research and not sure that it was true. But I found comments when Carter Reagan had excepted public funds they each received $10 million for there respective campaigns. Ran a series of public Debates the American people had a good idea through truth as to who to vote for.

Dark money was not legal at the time and any donation were made public. Now we have billions in dark money both left and right corrupting the political system with phony ads and propaganda sites that do not give actual agenda of any politician.
Libertarian is for smaller smarter government. To ... (show quote)


Money given directly to candidates is not hidden - so if by dark money you mean something different Carter and Reagan have no relevancy -

What you call dark money was never illegal - only some of it and that is the reality. You keep missing the base line point - there is no way to keep money out of politics without restricting free speech - the best way to deal with corruption is to reduce what corruption has to sell

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Sep 12, 2014 09:09:54   #
Dave Loc: Upstate New York
 
tdsrnest wrote:
The GOPTP in the house decreased the IRS budget how can you deny that. The house holds the purse strings in our government. That's what caused your IRS phony scandel they did not have enough agents to check the super pacs and how they were spending tax free $. I can't believe the ignorance of a person like you.


The tea party movement has a handful of representatives in the House - far from controlling it.

Established Republicans, including the Speaker of the House, has been anything but friendly to the tea party movement.

There has been no reduction in the budget for the IRS - on the contrary, Obamacare increased it and since then the federal government has been operating on continuing resolutions - not budgets - because while budgets start in the House, to become law they require Senate and Presidential approval.

The scandal at the IRS was about them selectively investigating and holding up tax exemptions - not about the shortage of resources - but the excessive use of the resources they had.

For a person having such strong opinions, clearly from left sources, with such little real understanding of what is really happening and what are basic understandings of things like the budgeting process is stunning.

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Sep 12, 2014 09:13:57   #
Dave Loc: Upstate New York
 
emarine wrote:
I thought Buffett said on national TV he paid 14% and that was wrong because his secretary paid in 28%.... so you're saying that was BS and the guy is just another snake.... he must be related to Koch who pays in 11%.... And Gates did not hire the same law firm that proved to America that smoking cigarettes was not bad for your health in the 70's to prove that global warming was false.... We all know how the smoking thing ended up :thumbup:



You are easily fooled and manipulated - take a look at how Berkshire-Hathaway is organized to avoid and defer taxes, using tax loopholes to gain an advantage in buying and selling equities that provided the basis of Buffett's fortune. At the very time he made the public announcement (his way of buying political favor) his company was fighting the IRS to avoid paying billions of back taxes. Also note, there is nothing in the law that says he can't choose to pay more than what he does -

I'm beginning to feel sorry for you -

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Sep 12, 2014 09:20:49   #
Airforceone
 
Dave wrote:
Money given directly to candidates is not hidden - so if by dark money you mean something different Carter and Reagan have no relevancy -

What you call dark money was never illegal - only some of it and that is the reality. You keep missing the base line point - there is no way to keep money out of politics without restricting free speech - the best way to deal with corruption is to reduce what corruption has to sell


I am not talking about money given directly to to candidate's I am talking about the dark money that funds super pacs both left and right. To create a stream of lies both left and right.

The Carter Reagan debates gave this country a true indication of what these two candidates agenda. $10 million each

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Sep 12, 2014 09:29:30   #
Tasine Loc: Southwest US
 
Dave wrote:
You are easily fooled and manipulated - take a look at how Berkshire-Hathaway is organized to avoid and defer taxes, using tax loopholes to gain an advantage in buying and selling equities that provided the basis of Buffett's fortune. At the very time he made the public announcement (his way of buying political favor) his company was fighting the IRS to avoid paying billions of back taxes. Also note, there is nothing in the law that says he can't choose to pay more than what he does -

I'm beginning to feel sorry for you -
You are easily fooled and manipulated - take a loo... (show quote)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dave these fools are in panic mode. They MAY have some facts, they DEFINITELY don't know a lot about economics and finances, but they are daily fed lies, ennuendos, and half truths by the DNC and the media - and they WANT to believe the lies; ergo lies become facts and will stay with these boobs until their last days on earth.

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Sep 12, 2014 09:35:18   #
Dave Loc: Upstate New York
 
tdsrnest wrote:
I am not talking about money given directly to to candidate's I am talking about the dark money that funds super pacs both left and right. To create a stream of lies both left and right.

The Carter Reagan debates gave this country a true indication of what these two candidates agenda. $10 million each


You keep talking about dark money and pretending it is something new -

Citizen's United was decided based on the 1st Amendment. If you want to stop people from spending money on promulgating their opinions to the general public, study countries that do that - China is a good start - Venezuela can teach you a bit about it - and Cuba has mastered it.

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